What is for lunch? ..Cruelty , I'm going back to being a vegetarian.

[G_j]

I was a vegetarian for well over 20 years and then got lazy,
The recent revelations (see video below) about the treatment of animals being raised for meat, has prompted me to wake from my slumber of denial.

It is well known that most sadistic murderers abused animals when they were children.
Now look at how the animals we feed our children are treated.
Cruelty is condoned in our culture, from the slaughter houses, to war crimes in Iraq, to our TV shows.
I can't take part in it anymore. I am once again cutting myself out of the loop.
I lived for many, many years without meat. I am now back on track.

warning, very disturbing!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWmAJlwLnQI

[JanMichael]

1. We stopped almost two years ago...for this reason

we refuse to participate. Sickening.

I wish other people would quit making "tasty" comments, and look at the industry they are participating in. It's horrifying.

[devilgrrl]

4. A veggie friend had a great suggestion...

If you want meat, you should have to kill the animal yourself to get it.

No more for me either - unconscionable!

[mikita]

2. good for you G_j!

Glad to hear you've rejoined the veggie heads!

:hi: mikita

[flvegan]

3. Good for you!

Congrats on (a likely) healthier you and a healthier planet (not to mention the deminishing of your "suffering" footprint).

[NNN0LHI]

5. Is fish considered meat?

I think I could do it if I could have lake perch occasionally. And lots of pasta.

Don

[Warpy]

9. Fish is a flesh food

but wild. It suffers when it is caught and killed, but it can be argued that plants do, too. They certainly don't make fruit, leaves and seed for the express purpose of feeding US.

Stay away from farmed salmon. They've found it to be contaminated with all sorts of nasty chemicals from agricultural and industrial runoff. In addition, it's grey meat that needs to be artificially dyed pink. As far as I know, farmed shrimp and prawns are less contaminated and safe to eat.

There is an ethical difference between eating factory farmed animals like pigs and chickens whose lives are spent confined and overcrowded, living miserably in their own waste and fish that live a normal life in the sea until they're caught by a drift net or in a lake until they're snagged by a hook. The difference is a lifetime of suffering or a normal lifetime. Both end in suffering and death, but a factory animal can know only suffering from the time it is born or hatched.

That might seem like ethical hairsplitting to a rabid vegan, but the distinction is an important one. If you're one of the people who crave flesh foods, you can reduce the damage by avoiding all factory farmed flesh foods. Dry up the demand and maybe the methods will change.

[Warpy]

6. I don't like meat and I don't like the way I feel when I eat it

so I eat very little and make sure it's the expensive, organically raised stuff and that there is no substitute in some recipe I've been craving.

However, my Jones is usually satisfied by Quorn patties of various types and Boca Burgers and who the hell needs meat, except as a reminder of why they don't eat it any more?

I do eat seafood, but mostly cheap stuff like pollock, lower on the food chain and less contaminated. It's lovely breaded with seasoned panko and fried.

Most of my meals are veggie. I certainly feel better when I eat that way.

[youthere]

50. LOVE Quorn!

the naked cutlets are the BEST.

[leftchick]

7. I quit pigs and cows twenty years ago

I actually never liked the taste of that flesh. To drive by a Cook-Out turns my stomach. This is disgusting. Look for many cases of CJD in the next twenty years hidden as "Alzheimer's" or Early onset dimensia. This country will never admit what they are doing to us.

[mak3cats]

8. I'm wondering if this is a good time to start a vegan DU group?

I'm not one yet, but I'd like to know more about it. It would be helpful to have a resource here, especially for someone who doesn't cook very much (or very well).

[flvegan]

10. There already is a Veg*n Forum here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=231

Great folks down there.

[mak3cats]

11. Thanks!

I only looked in the "Personal Interests" and "Lifestyles" main forums. Guess I should have kept going!

[flvegan]

12. I see you have a star. I hope you'll come visit us.

One doesn't have to be a veg*n to come down and say hi and find out what you want to know.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

13. I'm a vegetarian and very glad of it right now.

I've been considering going vegan but I don't know if I can and still remain healthy. I've done remarkably well at being a vegetarian though.

[OnionPatch]

18. Can you explain the difference to a clueless one?

If I were to stop eating meat, it would be totally because of the cruelty issue, not because I think meat is bad for you. So I would still eat eggs and dairy since these things can be produced without harming the animals. Is that considered vegetarian? All the terms mix me up.

[jgraz]

21. If you think eggs and dairy are produced without harming the animals, think again.

Egg and dairy operations are often the worst offenders in terms of cruelty. Like anything, make sure you know where your food is coming from.

[G_j]

23. correct

good advice

[OnionPatch]

33. Not my eggs.

I get them from my own chickens. :) They're probably some of the happiest chickens in the world.

I buy organic milk so that's got to be a little better than not. At least they aren't being pumped up with hormones and antibiotics. :shrug:

[RebelOne]

44. Soy milk would be better. Try Silk brand. It's delicious.

[tex-wyo-dem]

22. A vegitarian can be either a vegan or ovo-lacto...

A vegan does not eat any animal products at all, including dairy. An ovo-lacto vegitarian doesn't eat any meat, but allows themselves to eat dairy like eggs, cheese, milk, etc. I have been the later now for about a year and have never felt better :). Eggs, cheese and the like I try to buy as organic, cage free, etc. as much as possible.

[OnionPatch]

35. Thanks!

nt

[Critters2]

28. You may want to note that the cows who were being tortured in that video were dairy cows

probably no longer able to produce milk. They were Holsteins, most likely the theoretical "happy cows" who make California cheese. Dairy cattle end up in the same slaughterhouses as beef cattle, just after having lived longer miserable lives than the beef cattle. I know it's hard to give up dairy. Believe me I know. But it would be a great step. And believe me, you do NOT want to know how laying hens are treated--and even less so their male offspring.

[MissB]

30. I'll never buy another carton of eggs from a grocery store.

Keeping a couple of hens in my backyard is so easy. They're happy and get to roam freely around my property, scratching the dirt and looking for bugs. They do take a break in the winter time, but I have a dear friend that owns a farm that is always giving away eggs. She has a much larger flock than I do.

[OnionPatch]

34. I saw a chicken factory video once.

Yikes, that was horrible. But like I said above, I have my own very happy chickens. But my family does love milk and especially cheese. It would be very hard to give that up. To be honest, I don't see it as a possibility. There would be mutiny in my family. I'll just stick with organic and push for better oversight and regulation, I guess.

[yewberry]

38. A little more on definitions:

"Vegetarian" has changed a bit over the years and there is still some confusion over terminology.

"Ovo-lacto vegetarian" means people eat the ova and milk of animals, but not their flesh. This is usually what people mean when they call themselves vegetarian.

"Strict vegetarian" is now used for people who don't eat any any animal products.

"Vegan" refers to folks who don't eat or use animal products (leather, silk, honey, wool, etc.) It's more of a lifestyle and not a diet.


Dang, shouldn't it be easier?

[JanMichael]

14. kick

nt

[G_j]

15. good to hear from you!

hope all is well

:hi:

[LaurenG]

16. I don't consume meat

because of the cruelty. I am sure that animals feel fear and I really like animals, they are my friends. I just cannot eat my friends. x(

[jgraz]

17. You just have to be careful what you buy -- for both veggies and meat

Once you figure in pesticides, topsoil erosion, reduced biodiversity and pollution from transportation, commercially-raised fruits and vegetables are about as hard on animals and the environment as meat. Produce from foreign countries is likely to be even worse.

If you're really concerned about reducing cruelty, stick to locally-produced, organic, humanely-raised food.

[LaurenG]

19. Excellent advice. I'm growing my own this year.

I realize it isn't enough but it's a start.

[jgraz]

20. If I were to do that, I'd be arrested for cruelty to plants

We're lucky out here to have plenty of skilled small produces to choose from. I just make sure to visit the farmer's market(s) as much as possible.

[KaryninMiami]

24. Good for you - welcome back to the world of not eating animals!

I can't remember the last time I ate a hamburger or a steak - I think I had chicken a bout 7 years or so ago. But no more meat for me- the thought of it now makes me feel sick. I cannot watch the recent reports showing the disgusting cruelty to animals but I'm happy to see that they are having the effect of inspiring folks like you and others, to stop eating meat. That's a good thing- a very good thing indeed!!!

[cushla_machree]

25. What about Dairy?

Dairy Cows are treated just as bad, some thing happens to them when they can no longer give milk. Their young are sent to be veal calves (they keep them continuously pregnant and then take the calfs away from their mothers so they can take the milk for people). Every glass of milk you drink is one that was meant for a young cow, who was either raised to be a milking machine or dragged into a crate with no room to move so that people can have tender 'veal.' I made the switch to soy milk years ago, it was hard at first because milk was such a huge part of my life. But, after awhile, i liked the taste of soy better and i can barely swallow milk now, I just imagine it as a glasd full of cow mammary gland secretion filled with bovine growth hormones and pus (via white blood cells).

I still eat products made of dairy, but always organic. Most organic farmers care for their animals better and are smaller operations. Buying from a local small dairy is another option if you can't let go of milk.

[G_j]

26. organic and hopefully local

if at all.

I use a soy coffee creamer, don't drink milk
very little cheese, no eggs

[Critters2]

29. The cattle in that video are dairy cattle--Holsteins. Probably milked out and sent to slaughter. n

[Critters2]

31. Avoid Horizon Organic.

They're known for running factory farms that JUST BARELY meet USDA organic standards. They haven't been able to get certified by any private organic certification process, which speaks volumes.

[VotesForWomen]

27. it is a disgrace to the human race; but many will just say that animal 'don't count.'

[davekriss]

32. Ex-vegetarian here trying to go back

Unfortunately my family isn't giving me too much support (they have no interest in doing the same).

I was a vegetarian earlier in my life, but I grew too busy and it took too much time to prepare tasty food for myself (or so I told myself). Instead, I gave it up and gave in to the corpo-conventional food culture around me. (At the same time, I gave up poetry and painting for a corpo-conventional career -- it was a bad time in my life.)

A few years ago I read Dennett's Consciousness Explained. (Not a pretty book but it had its impact.) To oversimplify, if you could build a computer as complex as the human brain -- match all neuronal and chemical complexity -- then (Dennett claims) that computer would be as conscious as we are. While reading the book an old and familiar feeling returned: The life within me is the same life I see all around me, separation is an illusion (a convention). It here does "davekriss", over there does "G_j", and still over there does Mabel the Cow. Mabel, in fact, is not all that different from me. If I harm Mabel, I am in effect harming myself (my deeper self). Therefore an old choice returned.

While it is true that to live is to kill (examples abound), "davekriss" is aware enough to choose to minimize harm. I don't have to participate in the roaring natural violence all around me; I especially don't have to participate in the hyper-violence of raising flesh for food in a manner that maximizes shareholder value. I can choose a gentler path. So I have been drawn to return to vegetarianism. Just haven't made the switch (fully) yet.

[AgadorSparticus]

36. if it wasn't for sushi, I would be a vegetarian too. But truth be told, it's

hard to cut out chicken. I get lazy and it's easy to get chicken when I go out to eat.

[OnionRing Sasquatch]

37. You can always eat Onion Rings

Guilt Free!

[yewberry]

39. Oooh, Grasshopper,

they are usually dredged in egg wash.

You have much to learn in the way of the vegan, Grasshopper. When you can snatch this soybean rom my hand, then you will be ready.

[OnionRing Sasquatch]

40. Sasquatches live off the land

we make our onion rings in deep fried mud, you humans are so judgmental of other species' way, look back on yourself before you judge, oohh Humans.

[yewberry]

41. Sasquatches and Santy Claus?

I'm gonna guess that Saint Nick eats the onion rings dredged in egg wash, Sasquatch. (And you can keep the deep fried mud, Mr. Bigfoot. Yech.)

[OnionRing Sasquatch]

42. Thats Not Santy

Thats Karl Marx, notice how he's dressed in red.

[leftchick]

43. kick

for the cows. :)

[trotsky]

45. If cruelty is your main concern,

you don't have to give up meat. We get our beef from a local organic farmer whose cows are grass-fed and free-range. Chickens and turkeys from similar farmers. And the coolest part of going that direction is the meat is FAR superior to the mass-produced crap.

[GoneOffShore]

52. Right you are.

That's what we've been doing for awhile.

We also find that we eat less meat, because it tastes better.

[trotsky]

53. You know, I hadn't thought of that,

but you're also right. We don't eat as much because when we do it's that much more satisfying.

[octobit]

46. Vegetarian Cookbook

You should get yourself a copy of the book "Fresh Foods Fast." Not just a great vegetarian cookbook, but probably the best cookbook I have come across.
http://www.amazon.com/Fresh-Food-Fast-Delicious-Vegetarian/dp/B0009A0H04/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1203517648&sr=8-1

For those reading this that are not vegetarians: get the book, look up the white bean, mozzarella, and sundried tomato salad. Fry some extra thick bacon (should be 1/3rd-1/2 inch thick) and cut it into pieces and add to the salad.

My wife is a vegetarian, and I am mostly a vegetarian. I eat meat in <5% of my meals, and I make sure when I do that it is good quality meat from a local farm or from a farm with humane and sane practices. I perfectly understand and respect why one would be a vegetarian, but there are alternatives to vegetarianism if the main thing that bothers you is the particularly cruel methods by which some places process animals. Personally, I only eat meat that I would eat raw. If you're unsure of your meat to the point that you wouldn't eat it raw, then you probably shouldn't eat it raw or not. This is not intended to argue with you, just stating my own views on it.

Seriously though, don't sleep on that cookbook.

[GoneOffShore]

47. Ok you're going back to being a veggie

But are you only going to be eating produce you have grown yourself?

The reason I ask is that if you are buying veggies from a large scale farm you are still killing animals. Every harvest, every planting, small mammals and birds are killed when fields are plowed and planted. The cycle is repeated at harvest. So by going vegetarian don't think you're "cutting yourself out of the loop". You're still very much a part of it.

The biggest cause of death - life.

[bean fidhleir]

49. There's a big difference between deliberate and accidental action

The deaths of some small mammals and birds during open-field farming is a unavoidable-in-practice side effect. If an activity is ethical, then unavoidable side effects are to be regretted, but they cannot be unethical.

[GoneOffShore]

51. Oh, I agree.

However, one should be aware of the unintended consequences of ones actions. Most vegetarians and vegans aren't.

I for one, don't think that complete vegetarianism or veganism is the answer. Eating less meat, eating real food and staying away from corporate farm products will help.

[yewberry]

54. "Most vegetarians and vegans aren't." I disagree, and here's why.

I have to dispute the notion that veg*ns are unaware of this. (Shocking, I know.) It's a charge that's leveled frequently, and it's something that's often ignored. We really do know, but many of us don't bother to explain why we don't take the argument seriously.

I confess that I'm guilty too of ignoring that argument. It's not because I'm unaware of it; it's because I follow the argument to its bitter end and act as I see fit. (And I can do math.)

Okay, I'm vegan. Whoop-tee-doo. My aim is to less harm, not to pretend that I do no harm. So, let's say, for the ease of the argument, that 100 small animals are killed harvesting a pound of grain. My pound of grain has caused the death of 100 small animals.

Now, let's factor in animal feed. It takes about 10 pounds of grain to produce a pound of animal flesh. So, your pound of animal flesh has caused the death of 1000 small animals plus the death of the large animal.

1 lb food=100 dead
or
1 lb food=1001 dead

Can you see why we might discount this argument? The aim of doing less harm is clearly better served by eating lower on the food chain.

[lonestarnot]

48. Son and I resolved to try it for a while.

[Demagitator]

55. 80% vegetarian

After an Allergy doctor did tests on me; and told me I'm allergic to practically everything in the world (Global Warming syndrome?); I have been focusing much more effort -- on a veggie diet. I eat meat today, and for the first time found it to be disgusting.

Tofu gets me constipated; and beans, after a while gets to be boring, and straight organic vegetables are to expensive; I guess I will figure it out.