Look at crime data after the gun bans

[The Straight Story]

Look at crime data after the gun bans

This is in response to Gus Gustafson's Feb. 11 letter advocating gun control so that our country could be the same as Great Britain, Australia and others.

Since England banned all guns in November 1997, gun crime has gone up. As recently as 2006, Scotland Yard noted that more people than ever are carrying firearms as fashion accessories. These are not the law-biding citizens. They are not allowed to carry.

A report in January 2006 showed offense involving guns soared by as much as 50 percent in some parts of the country. Kings College in London found that the use of handguns in crime rose by 40 percent in the two years after the weapons were banned.

"Hot" burglary rates, defined as burglaries committed while people are in the building, is 13 percent in the U.S. and in gun-free Great Britain it's 59 percent.

An American study showed that the No. 1 explanation from would-be burglars not to enter an occupied building was: "I might get shot."

http://www.dailyherald.com/story/?id=137381&src=

[villager]

1. it should be pointed out this is a letter to the editor, not an article

and it's full of unsourced assertions. But not necessarily "facts."

Is in the inference that violent crime in Britain will somehow drop, if guns flow through and over the scepter'd isle to the same degree they define life in the United States?

[The Straight Story]

5. I think that person is saying

That banning something (ie guns) has not made crime go down involving guns (as they had hoped).

Law abiding citizens did not obtain guns, but those who don't care for laws have ignored said laws and went ahead and found ways to get guns. And those are the people who will also break the law in other regards.

Overall, keeping the average person from having guns has not made gun related crimes go down. Mainly because the avg person had no intent in using guns to commit a crime in the first place :)

[villager]

15. they are free to say it, of course. We are free to debate the facts

And I think there are reasonable trade-offs between individual rights and group safety that can be made.

I trust *you* to have a gun, Straight Story. Doesn't mean I think they should be unlicensed, sold freely at gun shows without background checks, etc., etc.

I'm also a father. My sons are out in the world. And a lot of gun-wielders, quite frankly... are not you.

[Lex1775]

2. It should also be noted that England is now seriously considering banning...

Samuri swords and knives over a certain length because the incidents of stabbings have greatly increased. There is a group of doctors advocating for the removal of all knives with a serrated edge.

[MercutioATC]

3. Once again, the damn ninjas ruin it for everybody...n/p

[Lex1775]

10. LOL...

They're everywhere! :hide: :hide:

[leftofthedial]

4. we should immediately eliminate all traffic regulations

that would stop traffic accidents.

[last1standing]

7. Exactly right.

The logical continuation of this train of thought is that we should remove laws banning murder so the offenses will go down. It's the exact same argument the NRA uses and it's just as stupid.

[DCKit]

8. Not at all. The criminals would continue to follow the old rules, putting us all at risk.

Think of the Children!!!!

While the government of GB was still keeping and publishing crime statistics, it showed that the incidence of armed home invasions went through the roof within the first two years of the gun ban - for exactly the same reason stated at the end of the LTTE - the criminals are no longer afraid of being shot at.

Still, this topic is one of many "third-rails" on DU, so let the fireworks begin.

[last1standing]

6. Worse than lame.

An LTE from some unknown source is hardly worth an O/P. "Scotland Yard noted" with no name or study attached, "A report" without naming the report or who did it, "Kings College in London found" without saying what basis they used for gathering data or even who at Kings College collected it, and "An American study showed" without even bothering to mention if it was South or North America let alone name exactly who created the study.

I can't even begin to understand why this was even posted.

[The Straight Story]

9. I used to sell reloading dies to people in the UK

The paperwork was a nightmare.

I have heard from more than one person there that it was easier to get the things the needed illegally than legally. I would have to agree.

People who want guns and ammo there have a whole underground by which to get them - point being that no matter how much of a ban they put on guns, people will still get them when they want them. And now those people are considered criminals.

The avg person is not going to use their gun to rob a store, or shoot someone, etc.

Guns are all over the UK - but they are not tracked because you cannot get them legally in most cases.

[last1standing]

11. You've sold things to people in the UK, I lived there.

This idea that guns are pervasive on the streets of London is a fantasy. There are some guns but far fewer than in Detroit (where I now live) or any other U.S. city. Nothing about your O/P or this response carries any real weight. It's merely a collection of anecdotes and skewed figures to push an agenda.

[The Straight Story]

12. I sold reloading dies, not guns :)

But I talked with a lot of dealers there (for dies) and was surprised at the need for them.

It appeared, to me, that there were a lot of folks who owned guns and who were considered criminals for doing so. To avoid detection they loaded their own ammo (hence the need for dies, which I also found prevalent in Italy - not sure of the laws there as we only had one main dealer there I dealt with) because they did not want to go out and buy rounds.

For a country with such a strict ban I sold them a ton of reloading dies, someone was using them.

Maybe because of the ban they had no way of tracking how many people actually owned guns (and we sold everything from a .17 hornet to .50 BMG dies).

Hard to get stats on guns when you make them illegal and can't track em :)

Maybe, just maybe, there are a LOT more guns in the UK than people know about. I guess they will never know because people that own them aren't about to tell anyone.

But they do need ammo. And we sold em a lot of reloading dies...

[last1standing]

13. So the only people you spoke with were involved with guns.

So they might have possibly had an agenda in making them more accessible, perhaps? The entire premise of your argument lies in skewed opinion, not fact. Also, the idea that you would know more about how many guns there are in the UK than the people you live there is ridiculous. Just like with drug use (also illegal), it's very possible to find reliable data on guns in England. Just because people who make their livelihoods from the sale of guns tell you there are a lot of them, doesn't mean it's really so. Neither does a LTE from an unknown source.

[ConsAreLiars]

14. You put unsourced BS up here because ???

Do your simple self a favor and go search out some facts.

Where does Britain rank in terms of homicides per capita. How about Texas or whatever murderous utopia you prefer?

[mvccd1000]

16. Where does Britain rank in terms of homicides per capita?

And why are theirs going up since the ban, while ours are going down throughout the US since concealed carry laws have gone into effect in 40-some of our states?

[Beregond2]

17. Guns

It's funny, I have never met a policeman in my life (and I have known dozens) who wasn't a strong advocate of gun control. If widespread gun ownership was likely to lower crime, kind of seems like they'd be all for that doesn't it?

I have also known a lot of recovering drug addicts who had supported their habit through burglery. Not one of them ever used a gun, or was deterred by the thought of a home-owner shooting them; largely because they never hit a house where there was anyone home.

I have never owned a gun. Neither has anyone in my family, or any of my friends. And none of us has ever been shot, or shot anyone. On the other hand, I used to work in an emergency room where shot-up gun owners appeared like clockwork every night. Coincidence?

Of course all this is anecdotal; but in a world where data is so routinely twisted to support an agenda, I prefer to rely on my own reason and experience.

[mvccd1000]

18. Policemen.

And I've never known one who was. We must live in very different areas of the country.