Nobel Peace Laureate Says US Trying to Stall Cluster Bomb Agreement

[babylonsister]

I find this so disgusting and embarrassing. I don't want these people 'representing' me!


Nobel Peace Laureate Says US Trying to Stall Cluster Bomb Agreement


Wellington, New Zealand - Nobel Peace Prize winner Jody Williams accused the United States on Wednesday of trying to stall negotiations on an international agreement to ban cluster bombs - without even attending talks on the treaty.

Delegates from more than 120 countries are negotiating a convention in New Zealand that would ban the use, production, trade and storage of cluster bombs that cause unacceptable harm to civilians.

The talks, first launched by Austria, Ireland, Mexico, New Zealand, Norway, Peru and the Vatican last year, aim to define which cluster bomb weapons are acceptable and which should be banned.

Williams, a delegate to the talks, said the U.S. was seeking exemptions from the treaty for many cluster weapons, a 10-year delay to any treaty coming into force, and the right for non-cluster munition states to work in coalition with cluster bomb users.

The United States was not represented at the negotiations, and Williams accused its allies of making the demands on its behalf. “The U.S. has put pressure on states to do these things,” she told The Associated Press.

There was no immediate response to a request for comment from U.S. Embassy officials in Wellington.

more...

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/21/7199/

[izquierdista]

1. There goes the trade deficit!

You think it's bad now, wait until one of the main U.S. exports is banned!

[IntravenousDemilo]

Who in his right mind would ever be in favour of these, or landmines either? n/m

[babylonsister]

3. ...

http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0309-23.htm

snip//

For example, she opposes the international treaty to ban land mines. She voted against the Feinstein-Leahy amendment last September restricting U.S. exports of cluster bombs to countries that use them against civilian-populated areas. She opposes restrictions on U.S. arms transfers and police training to governments that engage in gross and systematic human rights abuses, such as Egypt, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Israel, Pakistan, Cameroon and Chad, to name only a few. She insists upon continuing unconditional funding for the Iraq war and has called for dramatic increases in Bush’s already bloated military budget. She has challenged the credibility of Amnesty International and other human rights groups that criticize policies of the United States and its allies.

[IntravenousDemilo]

4. Well, that's not good. I mean it might be good for getting votes from on-the-fence Republicans,...

...but it's just not, well, good.

[leftchick]

6. Hillary for one

and the rest of the neofreaks. :grr:

[MaryCeleste]

8. Because they work against certain targets better than anything else

The other option is carpet bombing and Dresden

[IntravenousDemilo]

11. Civilians, you mean? n/m

[MaryCeleste]

12. No

I mean soft (as in not armoured) distributed sites like SAMs, artillery and missile launchers. For those, cluster munitions are the best answer, from a military sense. The alternative is lots of regular bombs with the attendant collateral damager above and below ground. Fuses for those can fail too, which makes for a much more dangerous situation. There is no easy answer to this one.

Cluster munitions used to attack or control civilians is against the Geneva Accords and is a war crime. Israel's use of them in Lebanon was quite questionable at times and there is evidence of inappropriate use. That has to be prosecuted, but it looks like that is not going to happen. US has cut way back on its stockpiles of them, which is a good thing and purportedly there are new rules in terms of documenting their use.

[Squatch]

13. (Raises hand) Me!

As an artilleryman, part of the fire direction equation is choosing the right munition to attack the right target. The JMEMS holds that it takes approximately 50 rounds of 155mm HE to destroy a single tank while only 6 DPICM rounds will do the same.

[MaryCeleste]

15. I brought that up earlier

without a response. Clusters are the *right* round for certain situations, mostly soft targets in open terrain, like SAMs or missile batteries. Similar quantites for JSOW vs JDAM for air launched weapons.

The high failure rate can/has been addressed. Israeli submuntions have a much lower failure rate. Not sure if the US has duplicated that or not in new munitions. We have lots of the older ones left, with the higher failure rate submunitions still in inventory.

[cal04]

2. Cluster bomb commitment sought

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23256944-12377,00.html

MORE than 100 countries including Australia will today be asked to formally declare their commitment to banning cluster bombs, in a step towards a treaty banning the weapons.

The 122-nation meeting in Wellington will ask delegations to sign the document, expected to call for a binding legal solution to the problem of cluster munitions.

A draft of the so-called Wellington Declaration says signatories agree that cluster munitions cause unacceptable harm to civilians and their use, production and transfer must be prohibited.

(snip)
On Wednesday, a former Nobel Peace Prize winner, anti-landmine activist Jody Williams, attacked Australia as one of a group of nations at the meeting trying to undermine the proposed treaty.

The Australian delegation has argued that elements of a proposed treaty could make it difficult for the country's military to work cooperatively with nations like the USA, which are unlikely to sign up.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

5. Well, of course, The U.S. develops, utilizes and sells the damn things!!!

There's a helluva' lot of profit and death in cluster munitions!!
x(

[TheMadMonk]

7. A blatant end run around the landmine ban.

Look at the failure rate for US cluster munitions (approx 25% IIRC) and compare that to what is achievable (approx 1%).

There can be little doubt that the higher failure rate is deliberate. Particularly given their sensitivity to movement AFTER they have smacked into the ground with considerably greater force.

They are an area denial weapon in addition to their stated purpose. Consider which Israel used in Lebanon: It's own low failure munition, or the high failure US one?

[MaryCeleste]

9. Not really

There can be little doubt that the higher failure rate is deliberate. Particularly given their sensitivity to movement AFTER they have smacked into the ground with considerably greater force.

Its a cost issue. Higher reliability ones would be more expensive when most of them were made.

They are an area denial weapon in addition to their stated purpose. Consider which Israel used in Lebanon: It's own low failure munition, or the high failure US one?

Reportedly some of both. The stockpiles used were only replaced with IMI made ones, with the much lower failure rate.

[spanone]

10. we are the shame of the world....follow the money

[dysfunctional press]

14. they hate us for our freedom...

to make and use cluster bombs as our corrupt and soulless leaders see fit.