10 Nurses face CRIMINAL charges for all QUITTING on the same day!!!

[RoadRage]

10 Nurses all working for the same nursing home, handed in their resignations on the same day. They said that the home had not been fair regarding overtime, scheduling and requests.

After many failed attempts to resolve issues, and have the nursing home hire additional nurses to lighten the workload - the nurses all resigned on the same day.

Now the DA is prosecuting all of them, because they are saying that the nurses put the patients (handicapped children) at risk. None of the patients were harmed, but the potential was there.

Here is the CNN Video (sorry - no text story to copy): http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/crime/2008/02/22/hostin.long.island.cnn

*****************************************************************************************************

So, what do you think? Is it fair to charge them for quitting a job that obviously wasn't treating them fairly? What about the helpless kids who could have been harmed, and their families?

I think the fault falls to both the Nursing Home who didn't do a good job managing the situation, but the nurses could have quit in "shifts" to make sure the patients were cared for as well. I don't personally think that criminal charges are fair in this case - anyone should be able to quit a job that isn't treating them well at anytime. Forced labor... isn't that slightly unconstitutional?

[LakeSamish706]

1. I certainly can't see how this Prosecution could ever stick... Thats just Bullshit... The...

one thing that does come to mind is; Is there some sort of oath that Doctors and Nurses take during there final stages prior or at Registration that might come into play?

[JoDog]

12. The Nightingale Pledge

Doctors have th Hippocratic Oath, nurses hav the Nightingale Pledge:

"I solemnly pledge myself before God and in the presence of this assembly, to pass my life in purity and to practice my profession faithfully. I will abstain from whatever is deleterious and mischievous, and will not take or knowingly administer any harmful drug. I will do all in my power to maintain and elevate the standard of my profession, and will hold in confidence all personal matters committed to my keeping and all family affairs coming to my knowledge in the practice of my calling. With loyalty will I endeavor to aid the physician, in his work, and devote myself to the welfare of those committed to my care."

[goforit]

94. Hey Jodog........ I guess your ready to jump off a bridge for any Joblow too.

IF ownership/management chooses to do wrong to the employee and hinder the patient.....
They are in violation of the coveted NURSING LICENSE founded on Nightingale.

If a nurse is not allowed to abondon the patient, then she may Not go to the bathroom!!!!for 12 to 16 hours!!!!
If a nurse can not abandon her patient, she may not have a lunch break for 12 to 16 hours!!!!
THE NURSE.... walks over 25 miles a day and lifts 300 + lb patients with no food or water!!!

It seems like ownership/management needs to commit to the Nightingale personnally before they expect it of others.

[WinkyDink]

101. "to pass my life in purity "~~~OFGS. P.S. Nothing here about quitting employment.

[havocmom]

110. Yet, doctors can decline to treat and in PA there is a bill giving them coverage

if they refuse to lend emergency birth control for rape victims.

But, let's see, more women in nursing. More men in doctoring. Wonder if that is a factor in the DA's mind.

[UALRBSofL]

35. Yes there is an Oath

But that only takes effect if you are already assigned patients. If you haven't taken a patient assignment then it wouldn't be abandonment but if you have already got your assignment and given your list of patients to take care of that day then it's legally called patient abandonment. That said, in my state, Florida we have a bill that's a "right to work" bill where you can be fired on the spot for no reason and you can also quit on the spot for no reason. If these 10 nurses quit while on the job I suppose legally there could be litigation for abandonment but if they quit before starting there shift the DA has no liable suit. Did the article say if the nurses were working or not?

[Heddi]

45. They were not working

they went in on their day off and quit. There was no abandonment. Just greed on the part of the facility owners who did not want to spend the money to hire the staff necessary to take care of the patients safely.

[Heddi]

46. Not a "legal" oath

There's the Nightengale Oath posted below. The ANA (American Nurse's Association) has an oath that's similar. A couple of other nursing organizations have an oath. They're all pretty much the same: I will not fuck up and I will use my brain throughout my shift.

As far as registering for a license---you fill out paperwork, attach a picture, and send a check for $65 (that's the cost in WA) and two weeks later you get a license with a tiny copy to keep in your wallet. There is no oath or pledge or anything. You don't have to appear in person.

All states, however, have licensing requirements. WA has the WAC- washington administrative code-- that outlines what a nurse can and can't do, and what they're obligated to do (report abuse, give meds properly, never undertake an unsafe assignment -- which is what these RNs' were being asked to do regularly).

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

2. Its a hard call

Nurses, cops, and teachers have a responsibility to society that comes with their position. While these nurses were obviously being mistreated they should have as the op says 'quit in shifts'. I say this as someone with two nurses and two cops in his family..

[RoadRage]

5. Yeah.. in the video clip,

They asked the nurses why they didn't at least give notice - 2 weeks or so.

The nurses said that they really feared the management at this nursing home, and thought they would try to come up with bogus charges, etc. to ruin their careers at other workplaces - they just wanted to get out as quickly as possible.

If that can be proven - that management acted like that (and TEN people agreeing to quit shows that something was definitely not "right" with management) the perhaps they are more then justified.

If my kid was a patient there, I think i'd try to look for a new venue if possible.. if people treat employees poorly - patients are usually not far behind.

[colinmom71]

20. Unfortunately, there isn't always a choice....

For parents of disabled children to transfer the care of their child to another facility if the nurses have found their management and work climate to be intolerable. I completely understood that mothers' dilemma in the video report. What the heck do you do, when you have a disabled child/disabled dependent? You have to rely on state sponsored resources, since the job is far larger than that you can provide once a developmentally disabled child has reached adult ages...

Heck, here in my home state of Georgia, I will likely have to surrender my parental rights to the courts just to see that my developmentally disabled son receives the (probably part-time) residential care he will likely need once he can no longer be considered "educable", which means then being deserving of state sponsored therapies and social teachings (i.e. - past age 21). My husband's employer provides some pretty damn good benefits to help mitigate this issue, but truthfully, we have no idea what the actual future holds for our little guy, now aged 12 years.

Oh, and my little guy is actually on Medicaid through the state's "Deeming Waiver" program, as a secondary insurance apart from the benefits that we receive from our private insurances we get through my husband's employment. But in GA, we are the "lucky" ones. The vast majority of parents of disabled kids (severely autistic, severely disabled, etc.) in our state are legally forced to surrender their parental rights and duties in order for their child to receive the state mandated services they NEED should those services require residential facilitation, which is quite expensive by anyone's reasoning. Yeah, ya gotta love Reagan's "decentralization" of funding to state institutions... (NOT!)

[canetoad]

18. No it is not a hard call at all

It is the right of workers to withdraw their labour if payment or conditions are unsatisfactory. The responsibility lies with the institution/home to go straight out and hire agency or other staff and make sure it discharges its duties to the people in its care.

Edit:typo

[Karenina]

21. Yup. NO MORE ABUSE.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

29. Yes it is their right to withdraw

But given the profession its bloody irresponsible for certain professions to stop work. There is a reaons the nurses and police officers have a different set of strike law than auto workers..

for that much staff to vacate *without notice* puts the agency in an impossible position there will be days when patients are not cared for..

[Heddi]

65. No, it doesn't harm the facility at all

There are scores, and I mean SCORES of nurse staffing and per-diem agencies that are WAITING for a nurse strike or layoff or multi-staff quitting. They have nurses that sit by the phone and WAIT for these opportunities, wait for the "we got 5 sick calls tonight, can you cover a shift" calls. And they do happen. My hospital uses per-diem staffing agencies just for this reason. Esp. during flu season and RSV season where alot of people call out every shift because they or their child is sick.

So there are staffing options.

However, the facility probably doesn't want to use these resources because tehy will be paying these short-notice workers a premium....agency nurses at my hospital get $55 an hour, while staff nurses get between $25-$35 an hour. But you're paying the premium of having qualified staff available at the drop of a hat, ready to come to work with just 2 hours notice.

Obviously this facility was not willing to hire permanent staff to offset the workload of the nurses already working there. Either they couldn't afford it (doubtful) or didn't want to pay to have, say, 40 nurses on staff when they were getting by fine (in their eyes) with only 20. So of course they don't want to use per diem agency because they're going to be paying A LOT more than the going rate for a staff RN...they're going to be paying these agency nurses double or perhaps even triple what their staff nurses were earning.

And as a clarification, these nurses didn't "Stop work". They did not leave in the middle of their shift and abandon their patients. Their facility refused to make unsafe working conditions safer. The nurses let their concerns be known and they fell on deaf ears because of profit motivation.

These nurses not only have the right to quit their jobs (no contract), but an OBLIGATION to themselves and their patients to refuse to work in unsafe conditions. If this is what it took for management to wake up to the unsafe conditions these nurses were working in, then so be it. I guarantee you that the Director of Nursing would not have stood for working the hours and the patient loads for pittance pay that they required these nurses to work in. Had that DON worked just one shift like these nurses did, I bet you that staffing would have been changed PRONTO.

being a public servant (ha!) does not require you to be a slave in unsafe conditions. NO worker, police, fire, EMT, RN, has the obligation to work in an area that they deem unsafe for themselves or unsafe for their patients.

[canetoad]

97. Its not irresponsible at all

It's guaranteeing a fair and just society for those children to grow up in. It's guaranteeing that your local police are not give a gun and told to fend for themselves.

Emo is a popular stance to take, looking at first principles is a much more logical one; I suggest you undertake a closer analysis of the underlying first principles in this issue.

[UALRBSofL]

37. canetoad that is the point of the nurses

If they felt the situation was dangerous they would refuse to take the assignment. I've been a nurse 20 years and when it came to a situation where we were severely understaffed we would say, either find more nurses, pull them from the floors or units where it isn't busy to help us. Otherwise I refuse to take an assignment because it's my nursing license on the line and this is a dangerous situation.

[canetoad]

89. I'm not sure if you are agreeing with me or not

while essaying a reply, some thoughts on the liability side ocurred:

Are nursing practitioners compelled to hold Liability Insurance whilst working for an employer?
If not, does it not follow that the employer assumes the risk?
Therefore would not the employer have a documented risk plan?
Would this not involve contingency for absence of key staff?
Is this employer legit or blowing hard to shift liability from themselves?

This is a case where clear thought and first principles must apply. There is no room for 'what ifs'. Its a simple case of 'Did the Home comply with the law' or not. If they did, I would imagine that their insurance policies will cover the additional and *unexpected cost of short-notice temp staff.

Unclear though means clouding this discussion with emotional heavings over what MIGHT have happened to the disabled children. In the long run this is reactionary comment that disperses the impact of meaningful comments on the plight of many workers who, for various reasons, do not have the clout or influence to have their voices heard.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

38. They've also sworn to do no harm.

So yeah, there's a potential conflict of interest.

[LeftCoast]

48. MD's swear the Hippocratic Oath not RNs

We do operate under similar ethical guidelines though, there's just no oath involved.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

50. It's implied.

You work in medicine then above all you do no harm, simply from a moral and ethical standpoint like you said.

[LeftCoast]

52. Right, just clarifying that there's no 'oath' per se.

The primary guideline for nurses is the Nurse Practice Act for the state they practice in. This will outline areas of practice, rights and responsibilities, etc.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

57. There used to be an oath for nurses...

I think it had something about always following a doctors orders and always protecting patient confidentiality.

Is that still around?

[Heddi]

59. No, not really

You don't always follow MD orders. If the orders are unsafe or unsound, you are actually required NOT to follow them. You can lose your license if you follow unsafe or unsound orders. If someone dies because the doctor wrote a shitty order and you followed through with it, YOU are sued to a greater liability than the MD who wrote the shitty order is. It is a given that in that situation the RN would lose their license where the MD would not. Fucking medical lobby

We do have to protect patient privacy--that's a given with HIPAA.

[LeftCoast]

70. The last I heard of any institution using that oath was way way back in the 30s or so.

I don't think it was universally used in any case.

[Heddi]

53. Agreeing to work in unsafe conditions

IS doing harm. One nurse cannot take on 15+ patients and be safe. It's impossible. Not when you have assessments, meds, charting, labs. I don't care how stable the patients are or what kind of setting is is. If a nurse feels that the acuity or patient loads are too high, then they have the right and the obligation to NOT work in that situation, double especially if they have notified management of their concerns and their concerns were ignored.

It is unethical to care for more patients than you can handle. THat doesn't mean that Nurse Lazy can say "Oh, I can't possibly handle more than 2 patients tonight" while working at a nursing home, but if you have a high level of patient acuity---patients on tube feedings, patients that need to be turned every 2 hours, patients that are incontinent, patients that are heavy care patients, then you have the right to say "This is too much. I can only take X amount".

Nurses know what their load limit is. The ICU in my hospital never has one nurse with more than 2 patients, and generally it's 1:1 if they are high acuity. Telemetry (where I work---ICU stepdown) is 1:5 and sometimes 1:4 or 1:3 depending on acuity. If I came in to work tonight and they told me I was going to have to have 1: 7, I would refuse to work under those conditions. The sickness of the patients in my unit is far too high to take 7 patients for one RN. Just too sick to do it. I would be putting my license at risk and my patients at risk, and I refuse to do that.

[LeftCoast]

56. I agree! Thanks for pointing this out.

I'm lucky to work in CA with staffing ratios. It scares me when I hear the patient load that is standard in most states. I work med-surg. Here I have a max of 5 patients. Other states I might have 9 or more. That is INSANE and imo highly unsafe. I just can't believe it's standard practice virtually everywhere outside of CA.

[Heddi]

58. Oh god...1:5 on med surg...what a dream

I work in telemetry and it's 1:5, 1:4, or 1:3. ICU is 1:1, 1:2.

Med Surg is 1:8 if you have no nurse tech, and 1:10 or 1:13 if you DO have a nurse tech.

that's why I refuse to work med surg. Too fucking unsafe.

[LeftCoast]

61. I can't imagine 1:10 or higher even with a tech

As it is with 5 I can run my ass off all night.

[Heddi]

63. tell me about it. 1:5 and there are plenty of nights

where lunch was just a fanciful idea for another day.

I judge my shifts based on how many times I got to pee. No pee nights were rare, but they occured. One pee nights were frequent. Two pee nights is a good night. Anything above 2 pees per 13 hour shift and I was sitting pretty and had no room to complain.

ANd that's WITH techs and with 3 other RN's on the floor to help out---if they could.

I think that many people get their ideas of nursing from Scrubs and House, and have no idea of the reality of what 8 hours or 12 hours of nursing REALLY entails, whether you're at a nursing home or in a hospital setting. There is an organization--I think it's Nursewatch.org (I may be wrong) that keeps track of media portrayals of nurses, and writes scathing letters when a show portrays a nurse as a sexy vixen in a dress (yeah right) that is nothing more than a Doctor's Handmaiden, or one that is an "angel of death" or one that has no critical thinking or prioritization skills. People don't realize, I don't think, that nurses spend SO much more time with a patient than the MD does, that we know SO much more about condition changes and medication effacacy than MD's do often. I'm not degrading my MD friends (I have many of them and I respect them highly), but that's the reality. We are with them for more hours in the day than the MD's or even family members are.

To think that all we do (ha ha ha) is sit around (ha ha ha) and have water fights with saline flushes (ha ha ha) is ridiculous. I would love to sit down during my shift. Shit, I'd love to PEE during my shift, or maybe eat a lunch that isn't inhaled in 5 minutes. That would be nice.....

[LeftCoast]

67. I feel very lucky to work where I do

We have good ratios and for the most part, are treated very very well by management.

Oh and on the subject of media portrayals of nurses...the other day I was watching some dramatization shows about medical mysteries. In one reenactment the doctor shoves his clipboard over to the blond nurse and says "take notes" while he holds his chin in a pondering sort of manner and begins to expound on what could be wrong with the patient. I think my eyes must've popped out of my head - I mean really... :wtf:

[Heddi]

68. my husband is about ready to graduate nursing school

the idea of him in a dress and high heels, while quite amusing......

[LeftCoast]

69. *Weird* I thought I replied to this already...

Anyway, congrats to your hubby on his imminent graduation!

:toast:

[AnneD]

73. I laughed my butt off.

The 3 DEM candidates job shadowed Union members. Hillary shadowed the Nurse for 2....TWO hours and talked about it being intense-and this was the Union Hospital's 1:5 ratio. This is why Nurses are the fastest growing Union sector in the country. She was stunned when she was told that everywhere else the ratio could be 1:12-15.

I remember when they were first trying to establish ratios in California. Hospitals and the Nurse Unions had to give their ratios. The best one...women in active labour, ACTIVE LABOUR. Nurses 1:1 Hospital Management 1:2 yes 1:2. Considering that the Doc may not be scrubbed up, that presents some interesting decisions for a Nurse. I think it was at that point when the hospital lost all credibility.

Heddi-tell Hubby to stick with sensible pumps.

[Heddi]

74. I was thinking Stripper Heels....stillettos

that way if he needed to start an Art line in a hurry at least he'd have a pointy sharp object for femoral art access.

Always Prepared!

[Mojorabbit]

91. In the seventies

it was 1:20 with a tech at a large hospital. I almost quit nursing altogether after two years. I took six months off and then went to work at a smaller hospital and loved it. Did some visiting nursing and then went back to the same small hospital for the rest of my career.

[AnneD]

107. I actually worked in a hospital in the 70's

our county hospital-mopped up my share of broken IV bottles. You had more patients but this was berfore DRG's. You would get walkie-talkies for preop teaching etc and folks would stay longer after surgery for recovery. Now folks come to the floor post op and they haven't recovered enough before they are discharged. All your patients are heavy duty plus intense monitering. It's rush rush rush.

I really miss back then. That was before the ins companues figured they could make a profit off of illness. I was proud to work in a hospitl then.

[rainbow4321]

92. 1:5 on the **ICU stepdown** unit I used to work on, no nursing assistants/techs

in the North Texas area. Didn't matter if the patients were on cardiac drips or confused and climbing out of bed, total care patients, etc...

They pushed for 1:6 at one point. I called the State on them about patient safety concerns and the hospital got a surprise visit from State, specifically questioning the nurse:patient ratio safety on my floor. I was just hoping for a threatening letter or phone call and was totally shocked when word spread about the onsite visit.
They never tried the 1:6 again but had no qualms about the constant 1:5. I spent 4 years on that floor and the turnover rate was a good 80% each year. Yet the damn facility still got "magnet status"--given to hospitals that attract and retain nurses and have low turnover ratio.

Our floor ALONE should have disqualified them from getting it. The hospital put on a smoke and mirror act for them, paraded out all the Filipino nurses they have brought over, bragging how they helped those nurses get settled in our community, helping them getting them get houses/apartments all in the same area, taught them how to open bank accounts/adjust to living here, blah, blah, blah.

And do you think ANY of the magnet judges had the balls to ask "um, WHY are you having to go to the Phillipines for nurses? Won't local nurses work for you or are they leaving in droves". Nope..not a word like that. They just gushed over the facility and handed them magnet status!

I work in an outpatient setting now and will never, ever go back to working in a hospital!!

[AnneD]

108. Few, if any hospitals....

live up to MY nursing standards....which is why I don't work there anymore. Before these hospitals get magnet status....they should talk to the Nurses there. and view the files and interview Nurses that have left.

[uppityperson]

96. No, we haven't sworn that.

If we did, trying to care for more patients than is safe, being forced to care for patients while exhausted, that would be doing harm. But no, there is no such thing to swear.

[Ilsa]

111. That is it exactly. There are agency nurses available for hire.

The care facility needs to always have one under contract for occasions when staff will be short. It could happen if they all caught a similar illness and were too ill to work. They are aggravated because they didn't want to pay more for agency nurses.

[zingaro]

88. So nurses, teachers, and cops should put up with crap but

it would be different if the entire art department of a marketing firm handed in two weeks on the same day?

I understand what you're saying - I really do - but the slippery slope of that argument leads to places I'd rather not go, kwim? Does this mean that if one chooses to work on a public service industry like health care or education or community protection they are afforded less in the way of options and alternatives to piss-poor treatment? You know, with a family background like that, that these public service industry jobs often come with pay that's comparatively nothing versus a private industry salary for comparably educated people in private sector fields.

It sucks to have gone to school for six years, to have busted your ass saving lives every day, and walk out with a check for a fraction of what someone who writes code makes.

Sure, vocational choice is just that but I don't think that individuals who choose public service should be *prosecuted* for quitting on the same day in a bad circumstance. This is some DA whipping it out where it doesn't belong. They're under no obligation to quit in shifts or any other such thing - they should have the same options as any other hard-working, tax-paying citizen.

[notadmblnd]

3. "at will" employment.. means "at will" for both sides

if they had no binding contract, they were free to go, IMO.

[awoke_in_2003]

36. I agree

Texas is an "at will" state. The boss can fire you whenever he wants. Works the other way around, too.

[Recursion]

4. NY isn't a RTW state, AFAIK

I despise RTW laws, but the one protection they do offer employees is that you can quit at any time for any reason with no repurcussions. I don't know what NY's laws are, and whether there are any specific provisions for health care workers.

[Tippy]

15. I to despise RTW laws

Not true. I know a person who not only quit a job, but lost his ability to even get work elsewhere.

Nursing homes are the worse employeers..They work their staff long hours, they disrespect them, they even make them come in on their own time for meetings/training and such...you either do it or they fire you...

[NC_Nurse]

6. Did they give any notice?

If not, they can be charged with abandoning their patients possibly.
I know when there is a problem here with the next shift coming in
due to weather or whatever - we're required to stay with our patients until relief can arrive. :shrug:

[RoadRage]

8. No.. they said that they feared if they gave notice

that management would harass them, or trump up charges on patient mis-management or something else to "follow" them to their next workplace.

It's the fact that 10 of them agreed to this at the same time that makes me really look at the managers of this organization with a questionable light. It takes a LOT to get 10 employees who all need to feed their families to just up and quit on the same day.

[Recursion]

41. When you don't let labor organize, they find other ways to organize

This is a strike by another name, and should get the same protections.

[backscatter712]

7. Did they walk immediately or put in notice?

I wouldn't consider a mass-quit out of line in a health care environment if they put in some notice, say two weeks or a month notice.

That would give the home enough time to hire new staff and scramble to cover shifts so people don't die.

[RoadRage]

10. They all quit on the same day -but weren't all scheduled together..

They all quit together, but only a couple were actually scheduled the day they quit, and only 2 were scheduled for the following day.

They did not give notice because they feared retaliation by management if they stuck around for a 2 week notice.

[MaryCeleste]

23. There are always the Temp Registries

This is all about $, not patients. The home could easily have covered the shifts, it just would have cost them more $. The well connected facility could easily sue the nurses, but they know they have no assets.

Its good to see that the nurses have legal representation at this time, but the point has been made to the foreign nurses, you are effectively indentured servants.

Damn this sucks

[ingac70]

9. Slave labor imported into the country...

:mad:

[uppityperson]

11. I got this many many yrs ago when short staffed.

Threatened to quit over unsafe working environment (work graveyard and day shift doesn't show up so was required to stay for another shift) and was told I could and would be prosecuted if I left without finding a replacement. The DNS (director of nursing service) told me I had to find someone to replace me even though it was her job. I told her that I was too tired to safely care for patients. I had to stay until someone could be located. Then I quit.

[Gormy Cuss]

13. I wonder if the DA would have initiated a case against 10 citizens

They're all Filipinos here on work visas --easier targets, perhaps. Unless NY has a law setting special limits on walk offs for private company employees in this profession it seems like a stretch.

Also worth noting is this defense:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/27/MN8EUH93V.DTL

Lawyers for the 10 nurses say one of the nurses remained on-duty when resignation letters were submitted. They insist the nurse — Ramos — stayed four hours past the scheduled end of her shift to ensure the patients received proper care.

So no child suffered any injury and according to the nurses, one remained on duty just for that reason. The criminal charges sound like a response to pressure either from a pol or from influential parents.

[hootinholler]

14. Nice article...

This about sums it up:

The nurses contend they are facing prosecution because influential Democratic officials - Sen. Chuck Schumer and Suffolk County District Attorney Thomas Spota - took interest in the case at the behest of an attorney for Sentosa Health Care, which operates Avalon Gardens.

This is also why we will not see single payer health care for a long time.

-Hoot

[MaryCeleste]

22. That is very disappointing, but not surprising

It just adds to my belief that all long term politicians are crooked

[TahitiNut]

24. Sentosa is a Dem campaign funder

http://www.opensecrets.org/indivs/search.asp?key=EZXQT&txtState=(all%20states)&txtEmploy=Sentosa%20&txtAll=Y&Order=N

Interesting names being used. "Nachum Singer" and "Nachum Sherman" both affiliated with Sentosa-something.

[Zodiak]

30. Schumer

Rotten piece of corporatist crap.

He takes money from the DLC and carries water for them even though he is not a member.

[asdjrocky]

16. Good work.

This matters. And it shows, once again, how courts are for business, much more than they are for people. I've sent this information on to people within the SEIU.

[TwilightGardener]

17. I don't think they can be charged, but it should be a mark against

their licenses if it was coordinated. As a nurse, most nurses have their patients' welfare first and foremost in their minds (and their licenses next)--a mass quitting is just wrong and unethical, even if the employer is rotten. You don't punish the patients that way.

[WinkyDink]

102. Nice support for workers' rights. NOT.

[originalpckelly]

19. Uh what? Now you can't quit a job? Isn't that like slavery?

:shrug:

[readmoreoften]

25. Welcome to labor conditions in the 21st century.... /nt

[canetoad]

26. Rec

for highlighting the emotional and legal pressure brought to bear on badly treated workers.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

27. one nurse to attend to 10 or 11 patients ...that is insane and putting the patients are at risk

[RoadRage]

31. Yup.. i think that was the point they were actually trying to make

perhaps not in the best way - but certainly in a way that would get managements attention.

I'm sure this story isn't going to help their recruiting much.. not the place i'd want to work.

[MediaBabe]

28. Here's a link for more information

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/01/27/MN8EUH93V.DTL

[AzDar]

32. Hmmm.... Carlyle Group just purchased a bunch of nursing homes.

:tinfoilhat:

[havocmom]

113. my thought too. Precedent for making sure the workers know (and keep) their place?

Ownership Society in the view of Carlyle is they own society and fuck anybody for a few pennies more profit.

[Donnachaidh]

33. prosecutor looking to run for office?

Considering they hired additional nurses, the argument is moot. This jackass is looking for FACE TIME on TEEVEE. :puke:

[Downtown Hound]

34. Here it comes, demand your rights at your job,

demand your benefits, good pay, your rightful overtime, refuse to be screwed over any longer, go to jail.

Seriously scary stuff. We need to keep an eye on this case.

[dflprincess]

39. I wonder if this DA has ever charged insurance company executives

with attempted murder or reckless endangerment when they've refused coverage.

[RoadRage]

40. Great Point.. if you're going to go after nurses making $15 an hour..

perhaps the million dollar insurance "suits" who sit back and put big red "x's" on paper for a living should be shuffled into court to defend their decisions.

[Sanity Claws]

42. Bullshit

If this is prosecuted, then the nurses become nothing but involuntary servants. Involuntary servitude was outlawed by the 13th amendment.
Big business has used politics to create laws and prosecutors favorable to them. This has to stop.

[AnneD]

43. Stand Back for the Mother of All Nursing Rants.....

:rant::rant::rant::rant::rant:

I have worked in many a Nursing Home and have officially left the field due to frequent abuse heaped on me as an Nurse, employee, and human being...Not to mention the lack of what I considered proper care for the patients.

Stand Back:nuke:

1) AT WILL...If those Nurses work in an at will state, and most states are these days-it is a two way street. They can fire your ass any time and for any reason without notice if they desire. BY THE SAME TOKEN....you have the right leave anytime you damn well please. If you are under a Labour Contract-you can strike but there are more formal steps before you strike.

Two weeks notice is a nicety-not a requirement. You may have signed an employment agreement to give notice-but if I am not mistaken-those are not legally binding and really only affect you if you want to go back to that hell hole again.

EXCEPTION: You cannot walk out in the middle of a shift-once you take report on the patents, you are responsible. You can refuse to even clock in if the workload is unsafe (this is alway a good way to get needed staffing before you take report).

I left a position like that once before I clocked in-left them with a letter of resignation and documented my reasons. I was told I would have to work OT for an indeterminate period of time, I was not familiar with the patients, we did not have all their medication or their paperwork for said medication, and yet I am held accountable. I remember the Nurses and a Doc in NOLA being prosecuted for what happened in their hospital during Katrina.....Thanks but no thank. I could have easily killed them as to help them. They deserved better than that.

If they have short staffed you (as you figured out after report), you have to make a loud robust complaint (I have known Nurses to call the President at home!). File an incident report....what ever it take to cover your ass. You warned them of unsafe staffing and they chose to ignore you at their peril. If someone dies on your shift after you have complained-you have less liability.

Way too many Nursing homes have been balancing their budgets by forcing Nurses to work dangerously understaffed. Folks you need to back the Nurses up on this one. Notice money isn't mentioned here. This seems like a very desperate act by very tired and frustrated Nurses. I have worn those Crocs before and I have nothing but respect for them. I can assure you that the President got on the phone and made some quick phone calls to a temp agency and paid some serious money to take care of that problem that day. He wouldn't have had that problem in the first place had they treated Nurses better in the first place.


Folks need to get these romantic notions of Florence Nightingale out of their heads. These 10 Nurses are more in line with her legacy. She went toe to toe with Doctors that did things like refuse to wash their hands before they did surgery or clean their scalpels off on their boots. Her first goal was to insure patient safety and care. How safe are you as a Nurse when you have to work mandatory (forced) overtime. It is a rare shift that is 8 hours. Most are 12. How safe are you when you have worked 3 12's in a row and 2 included 4-6 hours of mandatory OT. I shit you not I have seen it with my own eyes. Try safely calculating drugs after 10 hours on a regular shift but then imagine doing this at 14 or 16 hours. How safe do you want YOUR medications to be, or your elderly mother or grandmother. And with pedi patents one has to be even more careful. I am sure Randy Quaid would back me up on this one.

In this case...the charges are BULLSHIT. Nothing more than an attempt to keep the hired hands in line. Boss had his authority challenged and I bet the prosecutor is up for re-election. Boy if I had a nickle for every time that happen.

And folks wonder why there is a Nursing Shortage. There's no shortage -just a shortage of Nurse's wanting to put up with that crap anymore. The average age of Nurses is around 45. We are worn out and tired of this shit.

Just edited to add-I was a working single mom when this shit was pulled on me by employers. Try having a kid in daycare, being charged by the minute. I know workers that have had CPS called over shit like this. All I can say is go sell crazy elsewhere-I'm all stocked up. Support your Nurses on this one.

Edited to add I just read the whole article...The DA is running for office, well slap butter on my butt and call me a biscuit, I am shocked:sarcasm: This is as bad as the kidnapped white women during sweeps week. Anytime a DA want to get elected-the drag out and beat up an evil 'Nurse'. SMD

[Heddi]

44. I'm a nurse, and I absolutely agree with you

I was just about to post pretty much the same thing as you then I saw what you had written.

The fact is that either way, these nurses were screwed. Had they undertaken an unsafe patient load, they could have been sued if one of the patients was harmed because they were caring for more than they could handle, and their license would have been in danger as well.

The idea that the nurses should have quit in "shifts" is preposterous. They have the ultimate knowledge of what is and isn't a safe working environment. If they felt they were under undue pressure to work unsafely, and their DON or manager did nothing to lighten their load by hiring extra RN's, LPN's or CNA's, then they not only have the RIGHT but the OBLIGATION to leave that facility. Obviously the facility's first priority is profit, or at least not spending what is necessary for adequate staffing.

These nurses, by working in sub-standard and unsafe conditions were putting themselves, their license, and their patients at risk. And I equate the sanctity of a license on the same level as patient safety---we nurses work VERY HARD to achieve our licenses and to keep our licenses. I kid you not when I tell you that you slip up once and that license is gone FOREVER. If your license is suspended, or you have conditions placed on your license, it is very hard to get that license reinstated and those conditions removed.

An RN I work with had her license suspended for a year because of this situation (I was at her hearing so I know the situation):

She was in a crowded public area shopping with her kids. A mentally unstable lady was causing a commotion in this public area--harassing people, throwing food, urinating in public. My co-worker was attempting to leave the area when the woman came up to her and grabbed one of her kids and started shouting obscenities at the child. My co-worker grabbed her child back and was further attempting to leave when the woman punched my friend in the face and my co-worker used both hands and shoved the woman down to the ground and ran away with her kids into a store that then locked it's doors. The woman continued on a rampage for anotehr 3 minutes before security guards arrived and placed her under arrest.

THis was witnessed by about 20 people who all testified on her behalf. The police report and security cameras reflected the same incident as I relayed to you and was relayed to the nursing board. Charges were filed on the woman, but none on my friend because of self-defense.

However, somehow the nursing board got wind of this and suspended my co-worker's license for one year. Despite the fact of self-defense---she shoved the woman away from her after her children were grabbed by her and she was punched in the face---the nursing board felt that because she was a nurse (off duty at the time, obviously), she should hold herself to "higher standards" than the general public and refrain from "combative behaviour" and that "self defense" was not an acceptable excuse. When her lawyer asked "what should she have done, then, after she was assaulted?", the nursing board stated that she should have done nothing, and waited for the police to arrive to handle the situation.

Three appeals were denied, and she was effectively out of work for a year because of her license suspension.

That act of self defense and her license suspension will be on her record forever. If she tries to get licensed in another state, she will have to disclose that her license was suspended and may not be granted a license in another state.

That was for NON-NURSING actions.

Had these nurses continued to work under undue patient loads and put other patients at risk, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER MANAGEMENT IGNORED THE SITUATION, these nurses could very well have their licenses suspended either temporarily or permanently for putting patients at risk and KNOWINGLY WORKING IN UNSAFE CONDITIONS---that's the rub. You work in unsafe conditions and you're fucked. You let mgmt know about unsafe conditions and you're fucked--you're fired, get a bad reference, whatever. You leave because of unsafe working conditions, and you're fucked.

I bet no matter what, they're going to go to the Board of Nursing and have to defend themselves (unrightfully so, in my opinion) against charges of "PATIENT ABANDONMENT"---a very legitimate reason to have your license revoked. Not in their situation, though, because they didn't abandon the patients. THey didn't leave in the middle of a shift without proper coverage. They notified their manager of unsafe conditions and nothing was done. They quit their jobs, which is their perfect legal right. If anyone should be sued, it should be the managers and owners of the facility, who did nothing to remedy staffing woes and patient safety issues.

[AnneD]

47. Well doesn't that...

just suck donkey balls. Can't say I am surprised-feel free to name the state. I think all Nurses reading this would love to know the Nurse Unfriendly Board involved. I have learned one thing for seeing my friends go through Board Hearings

1)Keep your mouth shut
2)Hire the best attorney you can get
3)Always carry liability to hire the best attorney.

Stats show that Nurses with aggressive legal defense stand the best chance to come out unscathed. The Boards DO NOT represent the Nurses.

Your friend needs to get some PR on this and embarrass these biddies. Perhaps some time with the Governor, key legislator.

[Heddi]

51. it was Washington State

Generally they're pretty good, but apparently they had a bug up their ass that day, and the days of her appeals :)

The GOOD thing about WA is that we have pretty decent nurse salaries. However we could have a better union, and our state has constantly thrown out legislation that would mandate nurse:patient ratios....which is why I work in Telemetry---I'll never have more than 5 patients at a time, and always have a nurse tech. On the medical floors, the RN's routinely take 10-13 patients with a nurse tech, and no more than 8 or 9 without a tech. TOTALLY unsafe. TOTALLY fucking unsafe.

A friend of mine worked at a nursing home as the night RN, and one of the LPN's and one of the NT's called out sick one night. So she was the only nurse at the facility and there was only 2 NT's to take care of 40 patients. She called her boss and said "It is completely unsafe for me to manage, much less do assessments on and pass meds for 40 patients" and the boss was like "You can work, or you can leave, and if you leave you'll be fired and we'll notify the BON that you abandoned patients".

She hadn't clocked in yet and told her boss that it wasn't abandonment because she wasn't on the clock and had not accepted the patients, and HER options were to either come in and help her, or be prepared to be the nurse on teh unit overnight because SHE was not going to put HER license at risk because the DON was unwilling to help when she was aware of unsafe staffing.

THe DON refused to come in, my friend didn't clock in and left the job and immediately filed a complaint with the BON and Dept of Health. Within that month, Medicare/Medicaid funding had been pulled from the facility, residents were moved, and the nursing home shut down until they could prove to the state that they had a 'contingency plan" in place of the event of multiple call outs on the same shift. My friend did not get a bad reference from her job, and actually got accolades from the BON and DOH for her willingness to stand for patient safety and not put patients at risk by understaking an unsafe workload.

So the BON can work in our favour sometimes as well.

[AnneD]

55. You have to know...

the practice laws in your state. Kudos to your friend that chose to stand up for her patients. Florida and Kentucky are the 2 worst that I am aware of. And gee-they have some of the worst shortages. Wonder why:think:


Maybe your other friend should sue the board or members of the board. That case is so odious, I think she can bring pressure to bear. Decisions have been reversed. A nice embarrassing protest rally does wonders. In light of all these stabbings and things today, she acted in a prudent manner and should sue.

[Heddi]

62. Thankfully the nursing school I went to

had us basically memorize the WAC in order to get through the program. I know more about our nurse practice laws than I think my manager does, just because it was drilled into our heads so much and we had so many projects to do on what is and isn't acceptable practice for a CNA, LPN, and RN.

One thing I do know is that it is against the WAC to knowingly undertake a patient load that you feel is unsafe. You have a procedure to go through, notify your chain of command up to the DON, and if the safety issue isn't addressed then you are NOT obligated to take that patient load.

However, you have to do this before you accept the patients. If you get report and find out they're a shitty group, then you still notify your superiors but you're obligated to care for the patients until a replacement is found (if one is found). Of course, any RN knows that you don't KNOW if your patient group is going to be unncessarily shitty until you get report......and then it's too late to refuse the assignment.

Catch 22, no?

[AnneD]

66. I've clocked in late...

more than one time:evilgrin:

[Horse with no Name]

87. Texas has a Safe Harbor Act

It basically says that you have to stay and work an unsafe shift.
BUT...it lays the responsibility of whatever happens during that shift at the feet of the hospital.
Our hospital has Safe Harbors filed daily.
Maybe someday the BON will actually do something about it.:(

[AnneD]

112. California Nurses Association....

is looking to organize a hospital here in the med center and some folks are scare shitless. Once we get the CNA in here all hell will break loose. We already have some Nurses organized here-but it is through the American Federation of Teachers (School Nurses). I LUV my union and won't practice with out it. At least with a union-we have a choice and a voice.

[SarahB]

105. Good for your friend.

I work in high-risk Ob/gyn/women's health which includes a varied population (gyn surgery, gyn oncology, surgical, antepartum). Our standard is 4 patients per RN on day or evening shift and 5 patients per RN on nights. Of course we regularly go over that by 1 (sometimes 2) patients, but it never ceases to amaze me how bad it can be on the medical floors- 9 patients on dayshift for instance and like where your friend worked, some SNF's are a mess. How can you care for people like that? I suppose the point is that you CAN'T!

[varelse]

80. If this were an OP I'd be recommending it

I sent a link to this thread to my mom and this is her 2 cents on this subject:

We've got a bunch of Royal Assholes everywhere in this government. The Republicans were supposed to be the "limiting of Government" party, and we can see that they only meant "Government By the People" government, as in taking our constitutional rights seriously.

It doesn't matter that the nurses quit their job on the same day and for the same reason. A person as a right, under the constitution, to do what they like about their private lives. Freedom to pursue Happiness. And a job is private life.

It's been done before by nurses. In the south, over unequal pay for black nurses vs white nurses, all the black nurses walked off the job.

In my view, quite aside from your laudable concern for your patients and your committment to duty as nurses, you are human beings with the same rights as every one else. I'm appalled and saddened that anyone would suggest otherwise :(

[Karenina]

99. You GO, Girl!!!

:loveya:

[SarahB]

106. Excellent post!

:thumbsup:

[anitar1]

49. It is my understanding that many nursing homes have been

bought by Corporations, who then reorganize the homes and lay off much of the help. Just read an article a month ago which reported this very thing. Nursing homes have never had enough help, because money is the most important thing to the owners. The Corps are eager to buy them up in this country. We live in a very sick country.

[DemocratDammit]

54. No I don't think this is right.

My wife has worked in similar facilities. If the nurses walked out, they could EASILY have called a temp agency and gotten some sort of nursing care in place in hours.

[varelse]

60. Forced labor... isn't that slightly unconstitutional?

Yes, for now. It sure looks like some would like to legalize slavery in the US. That is a shame.

[Geek_Girl]

64. Slave Labor

Work your ass off or we'll throw you in Jail.

[malaise]

71. Meanwhile hospitals can have patients dropped off

on the street. :puke:

[DaveJ]

72. Disgusting corporate execs rely on the rotating door...

They treat their employees like animals thinking they can get away with it by simply replacing them as they leave. (Edit: It confuses me why any company would treat their employees with disrepect -- why would they hire them in the first place if they think so little of them?)

As long as workers just leave one at a time, they can continue getting away with their sick tactics.

These nurses (apparently from the Philippines so I'm not sure if they were even registered in the U.S.) made what they felt was a statement that otherwise would have been ignored.

With respect to corporate behavior, the U.S. is a very sick country.

[Heddi]

75. They would have had state RN licenses

either temporary or permanent. In order to work in the US as a nurse you have to have a license from that state that you wish to be a nurse in.

Many foreign nurses come here on workers' visas, so they're not permanent citizens, but are required to have a RN license, the same one that I have.

WA RN licenses are good for 1 year. I think they have temporary workers licenses that are good for 6 months, but I may be wrong about that. At any rate, they are registered.

Not only that, but despite whatever test they had to take to become registered in their own country, they have to take the NCLEX-RN licensing exam that all US-trained RN's have to take in order to become registered. And they have to prove educational credentials that are equitable to US RN educational standards. Meaning, at least 2 or 4 years RN education with a foundation in chemistry, cellular biology, higher mathematics, microbiology, anatomy and physiology, as well as a nursing program that features certain aspects, like HIV/AIDS, pediatracs, geriatric, mental health, etc. They also have to take and pass an English Language test, like TOEFL or IELTS and pass with a certain score which indicates tehy have proficiency speaking, listening, and writing in English.

Being a foreign-trained and educated nurse getting a license in the US is generally takes 6 months to 2 years, depending on the testing and documentation required.

Just to clear up any misconceptions (not yours...just anyone's) who think that foreign trained nurses come here on a whim with little or no credential or licensure. The costs are astounding and the paperwork and red-tape would make my head spin. There is a certain amount of dedication required to achieve a license in another state, much less in another country.

[DaveJ]

81. I wasn't sure, thanks.

I always had the highest respect for nurses. I know their training is rigorous and they are not in it for the money like doctors are. I took an anatomy class and almost failed it (I was given mercy by the instructor who knew I wasn't majoring in medicine.)

But I wonder why they were all from the Philippines?

(Not that it's bad, actually, if anything it's probably good since most people from the U.S. have been so tainted by corporate culture that they don't know how to relate to others anymore.)

[lovuian]

76. The only right a Nurse has is quiting when she wants

its up to the Institution to hire enough staff to cover

Nurses aren't slaves

This is just a movement that has started in Nursing that will continue and employers see this continuing and want to make it mandatory that you work in terrible conditions threatening your license till whenever they say you can quit

it will be interesting to see where this goes

[NMMNG]

77. I worked with disabled adults for 20 years

I can attest to the fact that a ratio of 1 staff to 10 patients is unsafe for the staff and the disabled individuals. :wtf: was Avalon thinking?

[lonestarnot]

78. Unfuckinghinged!

The parents should be charged for putting their kids in a fucking dumpass place like that! The administrators and home should be indicted for failure to provide staffing to cover. What if all the staff got birdflu and flew the coop! Fuck that. Where is this dump anyway?

[tyedyeto]

79. My state (Arizona) is a 'right to work' state

Meaning that at any time, one can be fired, without cause or reason, at any time.

The flip side of that is: employees should also have the right to quit a job whenever they feel like doing so no matter what their profession is.

Whether that is the case here in this state, I have no clue.... but if it's good for the employer, it should be good for the employee.

[NaturalHigh]

82. Are they going to tie them up and whip them too?

Seriously, if this prosecution actually proceeds, we're back to the days of slavery.

[bemildred]

83. What a load of horseshit. The DA needs to be fired. nt

[w8liftinglady]

84. I read this after working 14 hours with no break.

Screw them.I Pray those DAs don't have a family member in the hospital when we are short-staffed with acuities out the roof.Nurses are responsible for everything,every department,and we are supposed to put a "smiley-face" on it.Nursing today is not what what it was when I went into it 25 years ago.

[baldguy]

85. The mgmt is responsible for the well being of patients in their care.

By creating the intolerable working conditions in the first place which forced the nurses to quit, The mgmt - and ultimately the owners - who put the patients in jeopardy.

[Horse with no Name]

86. To start with there are nursing agencies that could have relieved the shortage

however the nursing home would have had to pay more and that is precisely the argument I believe.
The DA is overreaching BIG TIME with this. I'd be curious if he had some type of vested interest in the Nursing Home.
Every state has a State Board of Nursing that would handle anything that was related to the legality.
Obviously, there was no problem so it seems like the Nursing Home called in a political favor.

[LeftyMom]

90. Replacement/temp nurses are only a phone call away.

Sure, those temp nurses and the agencies that dispatch them cost a fortune, but it's not like there was any real danger that meds would go undelivered or tushes unwiped, unless the home's management were being cheap bastards, which would not be the fault of the nurses.

[B Calm]

93. I would like to be the foreman of that jury.. Stinkin' nursing homes

can't get enough of robbing old people of their life savings, they also have to exploit their cheap labor too!

[HuffleClaw]

95. meep

wow. ok, that is just plain insane.

[tomp]

98. the health care economy is being balanced...

...on the backs of nurses. society has so far refused to recognize and reject nurse abuse. in general, people want top quality health care but they don't understand what that costs, and how the system heaps intolerable levels of work and responsibility on nurses without comensurate authority. every day is an accident waiting to happen for today's nurse. nurses are, as a group, burned out.

as for the legalities, i don't belive this case can stand scrutiny, but then, this is america, where corporations rule. there is no issue of abandonment as i understand the term. abandonment applies to leaving direct care of patients to whom you have been directly assigned and have accepted responsibility for. AND i believe it is only actionable if injury occurs. you might be fired for work rules but not for abandonment. i believe anyone can leave a job unless they are specifically contracted to perform a specific task. these nurses might lose accrued vacation time or the like without appropriate notice but civil action, i don't think so.

disclosure: nurse x 20 yrs.

[WinkyDink]

100. ILLEGAL. Employees can quit whenever they want! What are nurses: SLAVES?

[LeftCoast]

103. Are DA's in NY elected? If so, has this company donated to this DA?

If anyone could help answer either of these two questions, I would be very appreciative.

[LeftCoast]

104. Follow Up info I've found so far:

Here's a link to a pdf of the indictment:

http://www.co.suffolk.ny.us/da/press/2007/INDICTMENT%20Avalon%20Nurse%20defendants%20and%20civil%20atty%20Vinluan.doc

DA's in NY are apparently elected.

The DA of Suffolk County is Thomas J. Spota
http://www.co.suffolk.ny.us/da/

The name of the company who runs the facility is Sentosa Care Group.

[havocmom]

109. Is the DA filing charges agaist the home owner? That party is just as guilty,

if not more so, of endangering patients.

[Hekate]

114. Lay the blame on management where it belongs & stop enslaving workers. nt

[mattfromnossa]

115. It's illegal to quit your job?

I thought it was the nursing homes responsibility to maintain adequate staffing levels??? :crazy:

[Eric J in MN]

116. It's like prosecuting runaway slaves. NT

NT