The DemoNader Underground

[Swamp Rat]

Something is happenning to DU... something is growing in our backyard.







Do we really want to repeat the same mistakes of the past?




* Whether we agree with some of Nader's positions is not the point. If he is such an important topic, then I suggest a Nader Forum.

[saltpoint]

1. I've taken the liberty to call ChemLawn.

They should be her first thing in the morning.

[Swamp Rat]

2. Thank you!

My hero! :loveya:

[MADem]

3. Those folks have to leave. They had to leave last time, too.

So don't worry about that stuff. No "NADER" forum. We don't deal with him here.

Just hit the alert button.

The rules are very plain about third party candidates. Not ambiguous at all.

We support DEMOCRATS for election here. The only time we give a ride to Third Party candidates is when there is no Dem in the race--Bernie Sanders, for example.

[Swamp Rat]

7. Just hitting the alert button won't cut it this time.

IMO, an official moratorium on Nader threads will stop what is likely to become a major distraction. The injection of Nader's personality will marginalise progressive ideas. Just watch how folks will defend him in the guise of free speech, instead of discussing progressive ideas.

Repeating the same mistakes over and over is the definition of insanity.

Repeating the mistake of allowing Nader to own progressive frameworks may help lead to another lost presidential election.

[MADem]

21. You aren't understanding what I am saying. It's in the DU Rules.

You can't tout a NON-Dem candidate if there's a Dem in the race.

If they keep it up, they get a pizza delivery.




It happened last time.

Alert---GONE.

The leadership here didn't fuck around last time, I rather doubt they will this time. We already have more than our share of "disruptors" on the forum who are disguised as "supporters." Those Nader idiots are low hanging fruit, very easy to pick off. It'll force the trolls wanting to go down that road to set up another sock puppet to fuck with us, and maybe then the admins can run a "compare and contrast" and get rid of a few other shitheads who are here solely to cause agita.

If someone wants to start a NADER IS AN ASSHOLE thread, or discuss, as we discuss McCain or Huckabee, their prospects, that's one thing. It's absurd to be "afraid" of that. Anyone touting the little shithead, though, will be plainly apparent.

I'm not worried about distractions. That "three posts" limit in GDP helps enormously. And, if it gets absurd, like I say, maybe the Admins will start doing a little digging to find out if there are Sock Puppets logging in using more than one identity and having chit chats with themselves, just to pull shit. An effort along those lines will REALLY clean this joint up...IMO.

[Swamp Rat]

26. ok, good points

:)

[LoZoccolo]

4. Board nanny. n/t

[stimbox]

6. Dooga, dooga, dooga? n/t

[Dhalgren]

5. I have yet to see one pro-Nader thread. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place?

:shrug:

[Swamp Rat]

9. Here's the beginning:

There will be more.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4741253&mesg_id=4741253

[casus belli]

27. Hope they're enjoying their pizza. n/t

[Swamp Rat]

38. More pizzas will be arriving soon.

:D

[doni_georgia]

8. Hit alert on pro-Nader posts

I saw him this morning and all I could think was "what a tool." We would have never had to suffer through * if it hadn't been for Nader.

[Swamp Rat]

10. Not fair to the mods.

They need policy to back them up, and to reduce the impending, enormous workload of deleting thousands of posts.

[Hutzpa]

12. How do you suggest the Mods deal

with this problem then, (not that I think its a problem)

Giving them a Forum will just create a loop hole to post

on DU, so the best thing to do is nip it in the bud at an

early birth, then it won't grow up as a thorn.

[Swamp Rat]

14. Yes, it does allow people to post about Nader,

but in a more controlled fashion, while negating the counter-argument of censorship. Otherwise, we will see Nader threads all over the place, and the mods will have to do double duty.

I don't have a perfect solution, only a suggestion. I just don't want to see Nader, yet again, co-opt progressive frameworks, while providing a distraction rather than answers. The injection of his personality itself will likely end up marginalising progressive ideas, once again.

[backscatter712]

40. They do have policy:

You're not allowed to advocate for non-Democrats on DU while Democrats are running for the same positions.

And there are plenty of tools in their arsenal to enforce that rule - post deletions, thread deletions, bannings, IP bannings...

[bobbolink]

41. That's been refuted time and time again. Maybe you should read more?

[melody]

11. Those must be magic 'shrooms and they must be eatin' 'em

If they really think Nader is going to do more than fluff one or two freeper hopes.

[L. Coyote]

13. They are an "inky cap" species, Coprinus sp., and they are very evanescent!

Apt choice of species. These crop up in a powerful burst and disappear quickly. The caps dissolve into a spore bearing ink, but it is a weak ink at best, nothing like writing in stone, mind you.

[Ichingcarpenter]

15. TPM headline: Bush's Chief Enabler Signs On

Josh Marshall had no other comment except that. Right on Josh.

[TahitiNut]

16. He's performig a service. What would some do without their 2-minute-hate?

He's DU's favorite scapegoat - an excuse for loyalty-dick-measuring contests. :evilgrin:

:popcorn:

[Swamp Rat]

17. LOL!

:rofl: And there's that too. :D

[ulysses]

19. ROFL

:thumbsup:

[John Q. Citizen]

18. If it wasn't Nader it would be someone else. The problem isn't Nader, per se, the

problem is that both major parties have set things up so that any third party/Independent run has to be a spoiler.

The solution isn't to kill Nader (figuratively or whatever), the solution is to demand change to the system so that we as Americans have more democracy instead of less democracy.

We need a system where people can run without being spoilers, such as instant runoff voting, fusion voting or some other constitutionaly acceptable mechanism that produces greater plurality without the spoiler effect.

Nader isn't the disease, he's the symptom. And we all know how effective masking symptoms is in curing disease.

I won't vote for Nader for president, yet I don't fear and loathe him.

[Swamp Rat]

20. Nader is a fungus, a symptom of not mowing the lawn.

:D

I don't disagree with you, but I believe by virtue of his personality alone, he will become a major distraction. He has co-opted progressive frameworks and is now running against the liberal party in a bi-partisan system. This will hurt the Democratic Party, again. Nevertheless, you are right in that we should be concerned about what has happened to third party candidacies. It is not healthy for democracy.

Though I do not have a perfect solution, I want to somehow marginalise him, like by creating a DU Nader Forum.

[Fleurs du Mal]

22. The only real mistake...

one could make would be voting for the democratic candidate. Your prix fixe meal of neo-colonial corporatism, e.g. clinton/obama or mccain, remains unsavory.

[MilesColtrane]

28. Asking for it...

[Swamp Rat]

30. Yes, that poster is asking for a granite headstone quite blatantly.

I do not find nihilism to be a practical answer to our problems.

[Fleurs du Mal]

33. nor I Imperialism

[Swamp Rat]

29. "The only real mistake one could make would be voting for the democratic candidate."

Fleurs du Mal are you an American citizen? Do you vote in our elections?

I do not think nihilism is the solution to neo-colonialism. Imay, however, help yet another GOP neoconazi get elected.

[Fleurs du Mal]

34. Which corporate entity do you represent?

[Swamp Rat]

37. The Corporation of Swamp Rats who kick the asses of NeoNaderites!

Which corporate entity do you represent?

[KharmaTrain]

23. Don't Worry...It'll Pass...

Swampy, you've been through these silly seasons as well. This is just more spice in the gumbo. :rofl:

Just like McCain ain't the same as he was in 2000, neither is Nader. He'll attract more Paulbots than Democrats...and since he's not a Democrat, he's outta sight, outta mind AFAIK.

Cheers...

[applegrove]

24. He always gets lots of press/discussion at first. Then he disappears.

Wait a momment. You'll see.

[Swamp Rat]

32. I hope you are right.

As soon as he announced I saw toadstools pop up everywhere. He was quite a distraction in 2004, so I hope it lasts shorter than last time.

[applegrove]

36. I think the Democratic base is so motivated, as seen in the primary turnout, that

we don't have to worry Nader's candidacy will be in the news beyond a few news cycles. He is less and less legitimate.

[Catshrink]

25. 'shrooms grow on bull shit.

I'm just sayin'.

[morgan2]

31. blaming nader for bush's misdeeds

is like sticking your head in the sand and forgetting bush stole the election. Its forgetting that for 4 of his 8 years in office there will have been a dem congress. Yes its easy to scape goat him because he isn't in the party, but its a cop out. The American people and Democratic party, contributed just as much to Bush being able to do what he has done, if not more, than Ralph Nader.

[Fleurs du Mal]

35. They aren't ready to give up believing in Santa Claus.

We put 'em in, they toe the line, every time.

[Swamp Rat]

39. I agree, but I think it is unfair to say Americans and the Democratic "contributed just as much

to Bush being able to do what he has done, if not more, than Ralph Nader." - This exaggeration might offend the many DUers/Americans who attended protests over the years, and Democratic Congresspeople who voted against Bushler's policies.

Ralph Nader has become a distraction. There are plenty of other people with progressive ideas we can discuss... like my candidate Dennis Kucinich.

[morgan2]

44. the american people is a generalization

it means as a whole. One person work very hard in the opposite direction, but doesn't change the sum total much. I don't exclude myself from this group.

[LWolf]

42. As long as ALL comments about Nader,

from any perspective, are relegated to that forum, I agree. I think the obsessive hatred and urge to blame him for our own party's failings are pathetic at best and horribly destructive at worst, and would like not to have self-destructive Nader flames dominating the front pages.

[Swamp Rat]

43. Blaming him for our own party's failings is a BIG mistake.

"As long as ALL comments about Nader, from any perspective, are relegated to that forum."

Yeah, I totally agree. :applause:

What's good for the goose is good for the gander. ;)

[LWolf]

45. Exactly.

If we really don't want to see 3rd party spoilers in every national election, we've got to address the reasons why they can draw votes away from our candidates.

Simply hating people for "deserting," and blaming them for losses, doesn't address the causes.