No, it's not a "gun problem", it's a "mental health" problem, and "an enforcement of laws" problem

[Ghost in the Machine]

Our society has become numb to violence since it is glorified on TV, in movies and in todays video games. Violence has become the answer to everything.

It's a mental health problem because far too many people are going without treatment, or slipping under the radar during screening for purchases. Many parents aren't seeing the warning flags in their child's behavior and they keep guns in their homes where a troubled teen can access it.

It's an enforcement of existing laws problem because there doesn't seem to be a checks and balances system to keep the guns out of the hands of criminals. I'm a gun owner, but I personally think that anyone using a gun during the commission of a crime should have their sentence automatically doubled, then, if a person convicted of a crime involving a gun is ever caught with a gun again, it should be an automatic life sentence with no chance of parole. They've already proven they can't play by the rules... twice. Or they could have their hands chopped off so they could never pick up a gun again. Would that be too cruel?? Who gives a fuck! It's a violent criminal we're talking about, fuck 'em...

Time now to trot out the other argument... drunks kill a lot of people every year with their cars... should we ban alcohol, cars... or both?? These people intentionally drink, intentionally get drunk, then intentionally drive, which means they are intentionally breaking the law. They show no regard for our laws or for human life.

Does this mean we have a "car problem"? NO, it doesn't, does it? It means we have people who ignore laws that are already on the books meant to protect us from these people, but these people disregard those laws.

I get tired of hearing the same old tired crap all of the time, blaming the gun, which is an inanimate object incapable of doing ANYTHING on its own accord, instead of blaming the PERSON who committed the crime, the societal issues that pushed him over the edge, and the lack of mental health treatment that could have possibly helped the person.

Here's a free bit of advice to anyone who would use a gun to harm another person in cold blood: Seek mental health counseling NOW! You aren't thinking right. It's NOT normal to plan to kill someone, then carry that plan out. Besides that, it makes you a wimp! What's wrong, little man? Are you too weak and cowardly to face someone and take them on, hand to hand, face to face, one on one? That's what I thought.... WUSSY! Using a weapon is a COWARDS way out. If you feel a need to shoot someone, shoot yourself save other families a lot of pain & grief, you chickenshit coward.

I posted this as it's own thread by request of elehhhhna & Husb2Sparkly from this thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2943463

Ghost

[wtmusic]

1. We should allow individuals to build nuclear weapons

Nuclear weapons are inanimate objects incapable of doing ANYTHING on their own accord! We should not deny anyone their consitutional right to own, transport, build, and buy a nuclear weapon at Wal-Mart, as well as provide mental health counseling for those who might have had a bad day and be tempted to "push the button".

IMO.

[uppityperson]

3. Yeah, and allowing same sex marriage would open marriage up to dogs and other sorts of animals

:eyes:

[wtmusic]

5. A nuke is an "arm", is it not?

A2 gves us the right to bear arms. Is a dog a person? Help me out here.

[uppityperson]

9. !

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2943847&mesg_id=2943847

[wtmusic]

10. ? nt

[Recursion]

42. Nope

It's not, actually

[wtmusic]

4. delete

[Pavulon]

7. Regulations cover the handling and ownership of base materials

however if you can obtain 50 Kg of HEU, and the explosives required to make a uranium gun device more power to you.

Lots of red tape..

Seems the swiss dont have this problem. They dont have 1 in 9 black males between 20 - 32 in prison either.

There are many other relevant factors.

Gun control is the lazy mans way to skirt real issues. I as a Democrat think these issues must be addressed first.

[wtmusic]

12. Why not deregulate HEU?

If a potential adversary had a nuke, he/she would have no way of knowing whether I was "carrying" and prepared to detonate first...

[mac2]

13. Get real.

[wtmusic]

16. Now I'd like to hear you formulate your argument

so that it's not a self-contradictory mess.

But I don't think you can.

[mac2]

I know a waste of time when I read it.

You are comparing nuclear bombs to hand guns. A bit extreme in my eyes. Apples and oranges type thinking.

[wtmusic]

25. It's like apples and bigger apples

My point is not to be facetious. My point is to illustrate that there is absolutely no conceptual difference, but a question of degree.

You may draw the line at fully-auto, I may draw it at handguns.

But there is no inherent, limitless "right to bear arms". Period.

[Pavulon]

20. HEU and Firearms are regulated.

as they should be. You can own both with the right permit.

[wtmusic]

23. Nope

Only LEU available to licensed research facilities. I want it for self-defense.

[Pavulon]

33. Ask Pantex

start a company and buy some HEU if you want it.

[mac2]

11. We as a country said we didn't want nuclear weapons

We voted for nuclear weapons removal...remember? Bush brought it back when Clinton had done a good job removing many of them.

[wtmusic]

14. Then we should have a constitutional amendment

because I am PRETTY DAMN SURE that A2 gives me the right to build one.

[mac2]

18. If they find you doing it you will go to jail.

Why would you need a Constitutional amendment since it is against the law?

[wtmusic]

19. The law contradicts A2?

Then we should throw the law out.

[dysfunctional press]

34. if you think that clinton would have ever gotten rid of them completely-

you're nuts.

[mac2]

15. delete

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

2. Our society has been conditioned from cradle to grave to fight.

[mac2]

8. My brothers were in the military and fought in Vietman.

But my parents did not raise us to have guns or fight. Fact is when we hit each other we would both get punished regardless of who started the fight. In a large family you have to do that.

One brother was in the Naval Air Force(on a ship) and the other in the Air Force (navigator). So they did little shooting.

We never had guns in our home. That doesn't say we disapproved of others having them. There were kids....

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

17. But the conditioning was all around them.

[mac2]

22. It wasn't conditioning it was war.

We found out our leaders were lying to us. Join or be drafted was the sign of the times. More chances of you being in a fox hole if you didn't sign up. It was a lie about Vietnam just like now by the elite. Our young aren't drafted but they use our National Guard and mercinaries instead.

[mac2]

6. Ronnie Raygun put the mentally ill on the streets with drugs

like that was going to solve their problems. They are a danger to themselves and others. Their families suffer not being able to help them.

Reagan wanted the money for Empire-military and wars not help for his people.

Some mental health facilities have been turned into jails for the mentally insane. Those who need help don't get it. They are "evil" in the minds of RWers.

They murdered Senator Wellstone because he was a drug and mental health advocate. And they couldn't defeat him in MN.

I suspect many of the "shooting events" to be Manchurian Candidate fear tactics to rid us of guns. The shooter is usually declared mentally ill and ends up dead. Dead except for the friend of the Bush family who "supposedly shot" President Reagan.

The Empire builders don't feel safe with us having guns. They want to kill people at their own whim.

Am I being bit over the top? Nope that ain't it in a democracy going down the tubes.

Nope I ain't a gun owner nor am I a member of the NRA.

Signed: Doubter of everything Bush.

[IntravenousDemilo]

21. If it is in fact true that "guns don't kill people, people kill people", then...

...we must take guns out of the hands of "people", even if those hands are cold and dead and it will take some prying to do so.

[Pavulon]

24. You may die of murder..but

it will be in your car. The person who kills you by yapping on a phone, running a stop sign, hitting your door at 55 is as culpable as a man with a gun.

You still bled out. Or your inter-cranial pressure still made your brain die.

So why is one an accident?

[mac2]

27. If you are drunk or irresponsible....drugs and someone dies,

you will be tried for murder and end up in jail. Yes...a car can be a weapon.

And so...?

[IntravenousDemilo]

28. In that case, it wouldn't be the car responsible, but the DAMN PHONE!

It's also the fault of the guy using the phone. Yapping on a cell phone while you're driving impinges on your ability to conduct your vehicle safely. The intention when you drive a car is not to cause harm, if you're doing it right; the intention when you fire a gun at someone or something is to cause harm, if you're doing it right. Killing someone with your car is an unwanted consequence of driving; killing someone with your gun is the desired consequence of shooting. With your car, your target is a destination; with your gun, your target is a living being.

My point is that people are by nature venal, wicked, self-serving, greedy, and altogether not very nice, especially if left to their own devices. Thus nobody can be trusted with deadly weapons until we change human nature.

[Ghost in the Machine]

29. If it is in fact true that "cars don't kill people, people kill people", then...

...we must take cars out of the hands of "people", even if those hands are cold and dead and it will take some prying to do so.


If it is in fact true that "alcohol doesn't kill people, people kill people", then...
...we must take alcohol out of the hands of "people", even if those hands are cold and dead and it will take some prying to do so.


If it is in fact true that "knives don't kill people, people kill people", then...
...we must take knives out of the hands of "people", even if those hands are cold and dead and it will take some prying to do so.

If it is in fact true that "shovels don't kill people, people kill people", then...
...we must take shovels out of the hands of "people", even if those hands are cold and dead and it will take some prying to do so.


If it is in fact true that "planes don't kill people, people kill people", then...
...we must take planes out of the hands of "people", even if those hands are cold and dead and it will take some prying to do so.


If it is in fact true that "screwdrivers don't kill people, people kill people", then...
...we must take screwdrivers out of the hands of "people", even if those hands are cold and dead and it will take some prying to do so.

Do you now see how your argument can just keep going down the line? Ultimately, the tool being used to kill people isn't the issue, it's the fact that people are killing people. PERIOD. If you're determined to kill someone, you're going to do it with whatever means are available, whether it be a gun, a knife, a shovel, a car, a screwdriver or even a rock or a stick. Should we remove rocks and trees from society?

The blame lies directly on the PERSON who kills someone, not on the OBJECT that he uses to kill someone with. It's really just that simple. A gun is a TOOL.... until someone decides to use it as a WEAPON to kill someone else, the same as a hammer is a tool, until someone uses it as a weapon to hit someone else in the head with.

[DainBramaged]

35. Would tens of thousands less die if guns weren't available?

Do you think the gangs around the county own their weapons legally? Any criminals? Where do they get the guns then?


That is all.

[Ghost in the Machine]

36. Thanks for helping make my point

No, most gang members and/or criminals DO NOT own their guns legally, and when caught with one, they should be locked up for life, where they won't have access to guns again.

Now answer this.. if there was a ban on guns enacted, and a roundup of them, do YOU think the criminals and gang members would admit to having guns and turn them in??

If your answer is anything other than "no", you live in an alternate reality.

Do you think people today don't possess the technolgy and equipment to build a gun in their own garage, basement or living room?

Bottom line is, you will NEVER rid the country of guns. Period. Get used to the fact, and start working on a better plan for educating people in the proper use of firearms, work on better treatment for the mentally ill, work on stiffer sentences for anyone convicted of using a gun during the commission of a crime, work on social issues to end poverty and the cycles of hopelessness and the criminal element that it breeds.

Those are your answers, NOT banning guns.

[DainBramaged]

43. I didn't help you make any point about gun ownership

I disagree with your premise, I disagree with your motives, and I think those of you who love guns need more fiber in your diet or a bigger dick to brag about or fondle instead of your guns.

[Ghost in the Machine]

44. Now I remember why I had you on ignore...

it's because you're willfully ignorant and possess absolutely no skills in debate, logic, critical thinking or intelligence.

Two things you DON'T need to concern yourself with are my penis or my diet. Once you understand that you'll be fine... as far as fine goes for ignorant people. You're living proof of Ron White's theory that "you can't fix stupid"....

Basically, you have nothing but bloviating bullshit and a fascination with the penises of gun owners. You certainly don't display any level of recordable intelligence or cognitive thinking...

If you decide to respond again, please try to do so with something of substance instead of tired old, rehashed tripe...

Thanks

[DainBramaged]

45. Wow, a blow hard

I think I'll click that red x myself. I am sorry your penis size was insulted. But then again, my life centers around more than phallic symbols.

Good bye.

[Ghost in the Machine]

46. Yes, you certainly *are* a blowhard...

thanks for recognizing your problem.

You're lucky I don't own this board, or your post would be pinned at the top with the title "This is what stupid looks like"...

Good riddence to bad rubbish...

[Edweird]

57. Why are anti-gun people so concerned about the size of gun owner's penises?

It seems that when logic has defeated their irrational argument, they quickly turn to the phallic reference.
Is it something "Freudian"?
Do they need a hobby?
Or is it just a lack of class coupled with an inability to think objectively?

[spin]

60. The best research I could find on this

was at http://www.guncite.com/journals/gun_control_katesreal.html#h5.1




Having read a lot of discussions on gun ownership on DU, I've found most of the anti gun posters use emotional arguments to bolster their positions while pro gunners like logic and statistics. The anti gun posters often try to get an emotional reaction from the pro gun people by resorting to the penis size argument. The quality of the discussion usually goes rapidly downhill from there resulting in a lot of people being put on "ignore".

If we could all work together to discover and remedy the root causes of violence in our society, perhaps we could reduce crime and in turn reduce the number of weapons and the demand for guns in this country.

But we seem to live in an "I'm right...you're wrong" world. We seem to take sides on many important issues and spend most of our time disagreeing and very little time finding real solutions.

I believe both pro gun and anti gun advocates would both like to see a decrease in mass murder and senseless crime caused by the misuse of firearms. There might not be any easy solutions that would work (such as gun confiscation). But results might be obtained by improving education, opportunity, taking the profit motive out of illegal drugs and reducing racial tension and hatred.

[kineneb]

63. especially if the gun owner doesn't have one

like me...the several long guns I own are all antiques. Working antiques, but never-the-less, still antiques. They belonged to my grandfather and I inherited them.

And last time I checked, my plumbing was still on the inside.

[Pavulon]

47. Ban GM tomorrow

bet you can still get a camaro..

or some weed, coke,hooker, or all three at the same time...

bans are great,,

[IntravenousDemilo]

49. No, it's what this particular tool was designed to do that is offensive.

All the other implements you mention have other, non-offensive primary uses. And except in very isolated cases (like 9/11), none of them is able to take out a large number of people at one go.

People, as a species, are not to be trusted with that kind of destructive power.

[tpsbmam]

26. I think it's an all of the above problem

Look, simple fact is that if there is a gun in the hand of someone who is drunk, prone to acting impulsively, prone to rage, prone to abuse, too young to even have a freaking fully developed frontal lobe....if you put guns in these hands (and more), people get killed. You think there aren't stupid, drunk, high, impulsive, rageful, etc etc people in Japan, the UK, Canada, the Netherlands, etc etc etc? I know you wouldn't argue that. The difference is that they don't have the easy to access to guns that we have in this country. Yes, there are acts of violence in those countries -- I'll take my chances against someone wielding a knife vs. a gun any day, thank you very much -- at least my trusty Louisville Slugger stands a chance against an idiot with a knife.

[randr]

30. Right you are

It is not the guns. It is the insane unregulated access to them by every sort of nut case there is.
We are now considering arming teachers to protect children from the idiots we "ALLOW" to arm themselves.
For Christ Sakes, think about it!

[jmg257]

31. Recent studies of gun violence support your arguments...

"The New Haven Guns Project...
In the Summer of 1999, the New Haven Gun Project implemented several new strategies to attack violent gun crime in the City of New Haven.
The selection of strategies relied in significant part on extensive research into the specific nature and dimensions of incidents of murder, assault with a firearm, armed robbery, the unlawful firing of firearms and unlawful firearm possession. Data from this research, conducted by Spectrum Associates of Farmington, Connecticut, was presented to a wide array of law enforcement, government and community representatives in order to solicit ideas for strategies to reduce violent gun crimes and illegal gun possession.

Some of the data presented included:

A large percentage of offenders and victims were 15-21 years of age.

Most offenders had serious criminal histories.

One fifth of offenders had been arrested for a prior gun offense, and three-fifths had a history of drug charges.

Over one third of the offenders were on probation at the time of the new gun-related offense.

Approximately one-third of offenders or victims associated with murders and armed assaults were members of neighborhood "groups" believed to be involved in other illegal activities. "


Look again at these facts. Guns are NOT the problem. Stop taking the easy route and blaming inanimate objects - it is only another way of justifying violence, instead we must deal more harshly with those who consistently constitute a HUGE majority of violent offenders.

[sandnsea]

32. It is a mental health, enforcement, education, parenting, poverty, cultural AND gun problem n/t

[billbuckhead]

40. USA leads all industrialized nations by multiples in murder and gun crime

All similar nations have stronger gun regs and far better results. It's the tale of doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Even India has a lower murder rate, so it'snot poverty. Gun utopia, Switzerland is changing their law.
<http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_gun_vio_hom_ove_hom_rat_per_100_pop-rate-per-100-000-pop>
<http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita>

[Pavulon]

48. Geneva is awesome.

I got all fucked up on a business trip. Left a nikon d2 body in a bar. It was there the next day. Lots of machine guns, no crime. Amazing.

[DutchLiberal]

37. Blaming violence on the media is sooooo 1990's.

And there was something else... uhm... oh, yeah, now I remember: there has never been found scientific evidence to support the claim that violence in the media infers violence in people.

It IS a gun problem. Why is it so hard to face the fact that you're not living in the Wild West anymore and that you're nor John Wayne who needs a gun to 'defend' yourself?

[Ghost in the Machine]

38. Save your strawman for your garden, you'll get better use out of it

Where did I say I, or anyone else, needed a gun to defend ourselves with?

Please try to follow along and keep up with the content of the thread...


oh... you *do* have a link or source to these studies and "scientific evidence", right? Please provide them...

Thanks...

[DutchLiberal]

50. You're the one who claims media violence instirs violence in people, so it's up to you...

...to come up with evidence. Not the other way around. But as a student in Media, I can tell you there has never been found evidence to support that claim. (Google it yourself if you want to. I'm not gonna do your homework.)

[Ghost in the Machine]

61. Strawman once again....

First off, I made no "claims" of fact, as it were, I stated my opinion:

"Our society has become numb to violence since it is glorified on TV, in movies and in todays video games. Violence has become the answer to everything."

You see the difference? I didn't cite any scientific studies, nor did I make claims that there were studies to back my opinion up. You, on the other hand, made a specific claim that there were scientific studies that prove my opinion wrong, therefore it *is* up to you to show evidence and support your claim. *You* cited sources other than your own opinion, and even claimed to be a student of Media having knowledge in the field, so *you* aren't "doing my homework", you're doing your own homework. You claim I'm wrong and that there's facts to support your, so you need to show them. It's just that simple, really...

Secondly, you may also notice, from quote above, that I never even claimed that the media *made* people more prone to violence, I said it made them "numb to violence since it is glorified on TV, in movies and in todays video games",... since it is so prevalent it has become accepted as the norm, brushed off with a "well, that's just part of living in the world today", or some other form of disconnected thinking....

[jmg257]

39. Actually the wild west was pretty peaceful, better crime rates then most cities today (guns and all)

[jmg257]

41. Blaming GUNS was so 1990's - ya know the whole "assault weapon" myth?

Which were used in like .01% of gun crime.

The same one that said 13rnd mags for my Beretta Cougar were illegal, yet all my 15rnd mags for my 92F were just fine. :crazy:

Thank God most people, and congress, are starting to understand that the constitution actually means just what its says, and so secures ALL our rights & liberties.

[CRF450]

51. I play alot of first person shooter games.

Does that mean I'm suddenly gonna go to a super mall and shoot up people one day? I think not. Besides, the only gun I own is a Spyder Pilot ACS paintball gun for paintball battles about every other weekend. I dont really plan on buying a handgun, but if someone tries breaking into my house I just might do that.

[Paladin]

54. "First Person Shooter Games"

Now there's a great buzz phrase. I'm going to Google that, and I'm betting that once I get a non-bullshit idea of what such games entail, I'm not going to want you any place near my neighborhood.....

[fujiyama]

55. If you want to escape people that play first person shooter games

you'll have to go live in a cave.

They're among the most popular genre of video games. Personally I wouldn't fear the average FPS shooter gamer any more than I would the average hunter or sportsman.

[CRF450]

58. So you must be one of those lemmings who by's into that crap?

Your a good example of someone who played into the media's fear tactics.

[Paladin]

67. The Word You're Looking For Is "Buys," Not "By's"

We lemmings are really good spellers.

You're welcome.....

[Ghost in the Machine]

62. No, I don't think you would go shoot up a mall...

but you don't sound mentally unstable either. One question though... could you state with a certainty that you wouldn't go shoot up that mall if you were mentally unstable, impressionable, off your meds and living in your own fantasy world?

I think most of these people who are shooting up the malls and schools and whatnot are more than a little unstable, mentally. They aren't in their right frame of mind and aren't in control of their actions. They have been consumed by the alleged misdeeds of others directed towards them, and they have slipped off into their own little world where they are supreme ruler and all those who wronged them must pay.

This is only my opinion, of course, but I'm sure there are a few cases where someone let a movie or video game creep into their real life. There may not be enough cases to say there is a definite link between media violence & real life violence, but it does happen once in a while.


Hey dude.. be careful with that paintball gun, you'll shoot your eye out, kid! :rofl:

Ghost

[CRF450]

65. No one can ever answer that question, nor could I

I dont live under a stressful environment, never had a bad childhood, no run ins with the law, hell I dont take any kind of meds/drugs either. So currently, the chances of me turning into one of those nutcase is EXTREMELY low.

[fascisthunter]

52. Yeah... Violence with Guns has Nothing to do with Guns

:crazy:

[Ghost in the Machine]

64. Violence has to do with violence... period...

The first step to violence is the act of becoming violent.. the second step is choosing which object you decide to use as a weapon.

Has the ban on guns worked in the UK? "Gun violence" may be down, but knife violence has seen a sharp increase:

"Gang culture leads to big rise in knife crime
By Brendan Carlin and David Sapsted
Last Updated: 4:02am BST 20/08/2007

Knife crime has more than doubled in the past two years across England and Wales, a damning report revealed yesterday.

The number of muggings involving knives soared from 25,500 in 2005 to 64,000 in the year up to April 2007, according to the Centre for Crime and Justice Studies (CCJS) of King's College, London.

Last year an average of 175 knife-point robberies a day took place on the nation's streets - up from 110 in 2005/06 and 69 the year before, the CCJS disclosed."
{snip}

Whoa, wait.. what's this? They took away the guns, now they want to take away knives:

"Mr Denham, a former Labour chairman of the Commons home affairs' committee, urged the courts to implement tougher penalties on knife carrying.

Last year, the Government increased the maximum penalty for being in possession of a knife or blade from two to four years' imprisonment.

Challenged yesterday that most such offenders were still only cautioned, he said: "Parliament has very clearly said that knife carrying should be a serious crime. My own select committee referred to that and said it should be a clear aggravating fact if you take a knife out and commit a crime, whether you use the knife."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/20/nknife120.xml

"Robberies with knives rise by 72%

Thousands of knives were handed in during a June amnesty
Robberies involving knives have risen by 72% to 42,020 attacks across England and Wales in the last year, according to a report by an independent charity."

Oh, wait... they *did* take away some knives:

"During the five-week amnesty, which ended on 30 June, people could dispose of knives in secure bins without being prosecuted for possession." http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5256612.stm

As it should be plain to see, it's still VIOLENCE that's the problem. Deal with the root causes of violence, not with the choice of tool used to carry out said violence. What happens when they take away all the knives?? People start using ball bats... or sticks... or tire irons... or their vehicles... whatever they can get their hands on once they've decided that they are going to hurt or kill someone.

Are we going to ban everything in society that can harm another human being? We'll have to cut down and burn all the trees, so people can't use limbs or sticks... we'll have to build a wall around the coastline and drain all the creeks, rivers, ponds & lakes so no one can drown another person once everything else is gone from the planet.... then we'll have to consider chopping off hands, since the can be used to strangle someone with, and chopping off feet, since they can be used to stomp someone to death.. right? See, this is where we end up when we ultimately follow your line of thinking all the way through... it's not pretty, is it?

Once again, addressing the root causes of violence is where to begin, or we end up somewhere we don't really want to be...

[Edweird]

66. According to the DOJ, the murder rate for Americans

is roughly 5.5 per 100,000. That's you and I "awash in guns" and "bombarded with violent images" and whatnot.
The murder rate in prison is between 4-5 per 100,000. That is with every move controlled, zero privacy, no access to weapons of ANY KIND, no computers or game consoles, and constant supervision.

How is this?
If the problem is "THE GUNS", why and how is the murder rate in prison so close to that of the outside world?
Shouldn't the murder rate drop dramatically?
Or is the reality that there are bad people in the world that will kill with whatever is available?

[Paladin]

53. I Get Tired Of Hearing The Same Old Crap, Too.

Like this post of yours. Nothing but the same old gun radical talking points.....

[fujiyama]

56. No it's not about guns themselves

but rather the easy access to them and the obviously ineffective system of background checks which has not prevented those with mental illnesses from getting hold of them.

And please spare us the myth of violence in movies/video games causing violence. Most western/industrialized countries have people playing video games (including violent ones), but only our's faces the epidemic of mass shootings and gun violence.

[CRF450]

59. Exactly.

When I play FEAR (an FPS game) multiplayer online, I come across alot of players from Europe, Germany, France, Australia, many many different countries.