Vets Break Silence on War Crimes

[babylonsister]

Vets Break Silence on War Crimes
by Aaron Glantz


SAN FRANCISCO - U.S. veterans of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are planning to descend on Washington from Mar. 13-16 to testify about war crimes they committed or personally witnessed in those countries.

“The war in Iraq is not covered to its potential because of how dangerous it is for reporters to cover it,” said Liam Madden, a former Marine and member of the group Iraq Veterans Against the War. “That’s left a lot of misconceptions in the minds of the American public about what the true nature of military occupation looks like.”


Iraq Veterans Against the War argues that well-publicised incidents of U.S. brutality like the Abu Ghraib prison scandal and the massacre of an entire family of Iraqis in the town of Haditha are not the isolated incidents perpetrated by “a few bad apples”, as many politicians and military leaders have claimed. They are part of a pattern, the group says, of “an increasingly bloody occupation”.

“The problem that we face in Iraq is that policymakers in leadership have set a precedent of lawlessness where we don’t abide by the rule of law, we don’t respect international treaties, so when that atmosphere exists it lends itself to criminal activity,” argues former U.S. Army Sergeant Logan Laituri, who served a tour in Iraq from 2004 to 2005 before being discharged as a conscientious objector.

Laituri told IPS that precedent of lawlessness makes itself felt in the rules of engagement handed down by commanders to soldiers on the front lines. When he was stationed in Samarra, for example, he said one of his fellow soldiers shot an unarmed man while he walked down the street.

“The problem is that that soldier was not committing a crime as you might call it because the rules of engagement were very clear that no one was supposed to be walking down the street,” he said. “But I have a problem with that. You can’t tell a family to leave everything they know so you can bomb the shit out of their house or their city. So while he definitely has protection under the law, I don’t think that legitimates that type of violence.”

more...

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/29/7368/

[annabanana]

1. It takes a tremdous dose of courage to do what these vets are

ready to do. They are truly living up to their oaths to "protect & defend".

[gateley]

2. They will be testifying to whom -- do you know?

I read the article and went to the site, hoping I would see the words "Congressional Hearing" or something similar, but alas.

I'll be watching, and my heart is with them.

Thanks again, babylonsister!!

[babylonsister]

3. There's more info at this website; I don't think they will be

testifying in front of a legal body, but they're making this an 'event' and hopefully some media will show up to note it.

http://ivaw.org/wintersoldier

[ohio2007]

16. testfying in front of "a legal body " ? " a legal body" ? hmmmm...

will it be a closed session with no media present or is it


a media event looking for front page coverage ?

[babylonsister]

20. Do you have a reading comprehension

problem? I said I "didn't" think they'd be testifying in front of a legal body. Maybe they just want to be heard; I don't have a problem with that.

[ohio2007]

26. maybe they should be tried in front of "a legal body" like the World Court" ?

Send them off to The Hague.
Will you support them for following illegal orders if they were in front of that legal body ? Seems to me that is where they should be doing their talking

I believe thats where they should be heard.

[uppityperson]

34. Are you seriously saying the should NOT tell the public what happened/s in Iraq?

Are you seriously saying that the only place they should talk is in front of a court? Are you serious?

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

22. They are giving testimony to the American people, THE LEGAL BODY. Recommended.

Are you trying to beat them down before they get started? :shrug:

They are drawing on more courage than most in this nation,...putting themselves out there,...knowing damn well people like you will tear them down before they even arrive.

I SALUTE THEM!!! :patriot: I SUPPORT THEM!!!! They may save more soldiers from the downward spiral of meaninglessness and worthlessness so many die from AFTER SERVING THE FRAUDS-IN-CHARGE!!!

:patriot:

You ARE THE HOPE every soldier needs! If I get near you, you will get :hug:

[ohio2007]

30. Send them to The Hague

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCMHmDnfD6I&feature=related

ie,
a farce

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. They are holding an event at a college in the DC suburbs

Congress is in recess that week.

[jpak]

4. Hope none of those vets ever run for president - the RW and FAUX will play that testimony 24/7

Just like they did with John Kerry....

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

25. I strongly encourage every single one of them to run for office,...EVERY SINGLE ONE!

The only way we are going to CHANGE the "racket" is to proffer ourselves AGAINST IT!

Besides, those effers are a handful of fat-cat pandy-asses who could not handle direct confrontation. We just have to stand toe-to-toe with those pudgy and overly moneyed-fleshed types. They ARE "ivory-white-tower" folks that would FREAK without all their corporate protection mechanisms.

:rofl:

They'd pee themselves if ever forced into what they FORCE on others.

[YvonneCa]

27. That will NEVER...

...work again. Never.

[ArizonaJosie]

5. This isn't more of the fake veteran shit is it?

I sure hope not. What was that last guys name...Jesse something?

[babylonsister]

6. No, they're not 'fake' vets. I don't know what you're talking about. nt

[ohio2007]

17. ...well your 2 cents has me convinced...they are the REAL DEAL folks

;)

[babylonsister]

19. I recognized Liam Madden's name:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Liam+Madden&btnG=Google+Search

[ArizonaJosie]

10. Jesse McBeth

Jesse Adam Macbeth (b. Jesse Adam Al-Zaid,<1> in 1984) is a civilian anti-war protester who falsely claimed to be an Army Ranger and veteran of the Iraq War. He lied in alternative media interviews that he and his unit routinely committed war crimes in Iraq.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

21. what the FUCK are you talking about? do you hear 'voices' and 'see' things that aren't there?

:shrug: "jesse adam macbeth"? :wtf:

There are "SOLDIERS", the real-life-kind, who are speaking AGAINST lawlessness, AGAINST HUMAN ABUSES BECAUSE THEY CARE about democracy and the rule of law and the fight they were suppose to engage AGAINST OPPRESSION while the persnickety profiteers have ABUSED our soldiers and their country.

You have a problem with that?

You choose to call our soldiers "fake" because they have the courage to ACTUALLY SERVE THEIR DUTIES AND BE HONORABLE AND HONEST,...UNLIKE THE FRAUDS IN OFFICE?

Your choice.

Nevertheless, explain the delusion you inserted.

BAH! Nevermind.

You are WITH the criminals-in-charge and AGAINST the rest of us, apparently.

:puke:

[genie_weenie]

31. Who are you Rush Limbaugh?

MacBeth was never touted as an Iraq Veteran Against the War.

MacBeth made a bunch of claims and Free Republic, Malkin and every other chicken hawk warmonger have been trying to assert MacBeth stands for all vets who are against the Occupation of Iraq.

[uppityperson]

32. Bye bye. Enjoy your pizza

[tabasco]

18. You mean those republican politician fake veterans?

http://www.boston.com/news/education/k_12/articles/2008/01/10/lawrence_official_faces_charge_he_forged_military_paper/

Yep, that's fucked up. Are you a vet, sparky?

[elizfeelinggreat]

7. wow

“The problem is that that soldier was not committing a crime as you might call it because the rules of engagement were very clear that no one was supposed to be walking down the street,” he said. “But I have a problem with that. You can’t tell a family to leave everything they know so you can bomb the shit out of their house or their city. So while he definitely has protection under the law, I don’t think that legitimates that type of violence.”


This is what the Bush administration does not want the public to hear.

These soldiers are very courageous and I will look for more information in March. Thanks for posting this.

[YvonneCa]

28. Courageous and patriotic. n/t

[Ghost in the Machine]

8. Get thee to the Greatest page!

Thank you to all the members of IVAW. Thank you for your brave service, and for bravely speaking up afterwards.

[Olney Blue]

9. K/R This is important.

[L. Coyote]

12. ditto! we the People must be kept aware of that done in our names.

[TahitiNut]

11. Coming soon: A "free-fire zone" near you.

:grr:

[Disturbed]

14. Congress will avoid this. The Rethugs & Dems want the Iraq

Occupation to continue for a few more years.

They want to keep the Fiasco going to finalize that Oil Deal.. The Repugs & Dems are afraid that they will be blamed if they force the end of the US Occupation and Iraq goes down the tubes, the Oil goes to other countries, & Iran gains major control in the ME.

[brer cat]

13. Rummy to the Hague!

It all started at the top.

Great post bs. K&R

[ohio2007]

15. " planning to descend on Washington from Mar. 13-16 to testify about war crimes they committed "

?
Which committee are they going to be sitting in front of and testifying to ?


the article didn't mention it.

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

23. WHAT IS your problem? They will testify before ANYONE who will hear them.

If that isn't good enough for you, please personally arrange something better.

If you doubt they will be heard, pick up your phone and make sure their voices are recorded.

[ohio2007]

35. Are these not the "baby killers" you are supporting on one hand and yet wish to spit on them like

they do in Berkely ?

Group protests Marine recruiters in Berkeley


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/02/01/BA8PUQ8VK.DTL

Ryan Eyges, who plans to join the Marines, tells protester Joey Johnson the Marines have the right to have an office in Berkeley. Chronicle photo by Lance Iversen


Berkeley to Marines: You're 'not welcome in our city'


Berkeley passed a measure last week encouraging protesters to gather outside the Marine office.


http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/02/07/berkeley.protests/

so tell me,
which troops do you support sick-sick-sick ?

[uppityperson]

36. What the FUCK are you going on about? "baby killers"? "spit"?

Supporting military to tell the truth is wrong while passing on these rightwingers lies is right?
Being anti-recruitment is "spitting"?
WTF?

[babylonsister]

37. I for one support the troops who think this is an evil, bloody,

dangerous, illegal occupation, one they want us to get out of. Recruiters are trying to put soldiers in. There is a difference, and what's your story? Baby killers? Do you mean the recruiters, because that's what has effectively been happening, babies being the soldiers who have been steadily dying.
Yes, there are some soldiers who have done dishonorable things, but I don't think the vast majority is guilty of that.
So, what's your story and what's generating your hate?

[sicksicksick_N_tired]

24. By the way,...are there DUers planning to descend on Washington on March 15?

Hmmmm?

I'm figuring: "if there's ever a time to make our voices heard, it would be March 15".

Walk the talk, day.

[uppityperson]

33. "article didn't mention it", maybe because that isn't what they're doing.

Just a thought here, try not jumping to a conclusion and then being puzzled or offended when that conclusion is wrong.