Health Care/Plans question.

[gateley]

I think a number of us here would prefer a single payer, Canada-like health care plan as Dennis put forth.

I also think a number of us feel that both Obama's and Clinton's plans are far from perfect.

My question: Is there anything we can DO to encourage/usher in a single payer plan? We're squabbling about this candidate's plan vs that candidate's plan, but why are neither of them actually taking steps to do what so many of us want and need?

I, for one, can't get past the insurance industry's 800 lb gorilla stomping around. And I've also heard that we can't just pull the plug on what we have to begin a new plan (understandable). But neither of these plans seems to tout single payer as the GOAL, and anyway, doesn't Dennis have a plan that would ease the transition?

Thanks all you smart people!

[napi21]

1. I don't think even Denis's plan was like Canada or most of Europe.

If you believe what you saw in the movie SICKO, and I have no reason to think you can't, the people do pay a premium, but when they go to a hospital, they don't pay anything. Denis recommended Medicare for all. You STILL have copays with Medicare and there's a deductible too.

I happen to think one reason you aren't hearing much about eliminating ins. co's and going to a gov't run HC is because the candidates know there would be NO CHANCE of ever pushing that through! Americans don't like radical change because they're afraid there's some big surprise that they don't know about. They've been hearing how bad Canada's and Europ's HC is for YEARS & YEARS! It's going to take a long time to get people past that.

I'm not sure about Obama's plan, but I 've Hillary say that everyone will have a choice to keep what they have if they're happy, purchase one of the plans available to Congress now, or buy into Medicare. Of course those eligible for Medicade/Medicare would still be eligible for that too. If buying into Medicare is much cheaper, and a lot of people chose that option and end up being HAPPY with it, I think you'll see that grow in popularity and eventually push the other plans out. People have to feel comfortable with making big changes and that would give them the option to do that.

[jwirr]

5. CoPays are a relatively new concept. introduced by repug states

and then by any pug governor who could push them through. They do not have to be a part of a single payer health care plan.

As to the original question how do we get the plan we want when our candidates are too afraid to run on the issue: we do what DU is really good at: once they actually get elected we lobby our asses off and we demonstrate and those like me take our disabled children in to visit the senate/congress and we pull together and set the country on fire for our hopes.

[supernova]

2. I think that's why the "Medicare for all"

meme works so well.

It doesn't threaten a BIG CHANGE all at once to scare the dig in their heels types. It sounds good because we already have medicare and most people know what that is, who uses and why.

It's a good way to introduce the concept of SP healthcare over a period of years, get the recalcitrant types to see what it is.

Like global competition to other industries that grew too sure of themselves, the insurance cos will slowly die out as more people prefer the medicare style plan where they can get what they want/need at a much lower cost.



Don't get me wrong, I'd love to institute universal healthcare in the next two or three years, but I don't think it will happen like that.

[gateley]

3. Thanks for your knowledgeable responses - exactly what I'd hoped for.

I've spoken to a couple Canadian DUers, though, and they had nothing but praise about the medical system in Canada. It sounded sooooo good to me. Although one did say that it took about 10 years to get it up and humming and get the bugs worked out.

My only experience with Medicare was when I was taking care of my parents before they died. Had they not had supplemental insurance, Medicare was far from ideal.

But an excellent point that we're familiar with it, and it would be easier to tip-toe in that direction.

Thanks again! :pals:

[warren pease]

4. We could stop calling it "single-payer" for starters...

Instead of calling it single-payer, universal-access health care -- which most people don't have a clue about -- why not go the shameless route and try to get something passed on raw emotion for a change? Nothing else seems to work.

So let's call it "Nataline's Law" after the teenaged girl that Cigna killed by denial-of-coverage a month or so ago -- generating massive bad publicity and demonstrating the immorality of the entire for-profit health care model. Then, not only does single-payer have a face, but every time some apologist for the current disaster tries to insult the alternative, they're stuck invoking her name yet again.

We have things like "Amber alerts" and "Megan's Law" and "The Ryan White CARE Act" because people respond more readily to emotional issues than to the straight story. Suppose Amber Alerts were known as "kidnapped kid phone trees." Think they'd get the attention they get now?

That's how the GOP has been selling its pathological legislative agenda for years. "Healthy Forests" = Clearcut, slash, burn, destabilize hillsides, silt up streams and rivers, kill the fish, but please continue to make a fortune the American resource exploitation way. "Clear Skies Initiative" = Please feel free to send trillions of tons of carbon into the atmosphere because global climate change is the precursor to The Rapture and we're really looking forward to End Times. "Leave No Child Behind" = Teach to the test so we can kill creativity and critical thinking and turn these little idea engines into dull-witted, imagination-less corporate androids.

That crap works because Americans are suckers for dumb-ass slogans. And the GOP knows that if it won't fit on a bumper sticker, it's not going to fit between the ears of the average undereducated, misinformed, dummied-down, uncritical, mass media saturated American political illiterate. So they keep it simple.

Democrats, on the other hand, demonstrating that their "strategic advisers" are about as strategic as a buggy whip, wouldn't understand branding if it bit them in their collective fat, overpaid asses. So they come up with names like S-CHIP. Sheer genius, as I've come to expect from the democratic party's deep thinkers.

The GOP would have called it "The Healthy Kids Act" or something catchy like that. Dems, however, chose to go with an acronym that nobody knows and that sounds like a computer component. No wonder nobody besides those who were seriously screwed by the veto really gave a shit.

One other thing: I'm not sure the federal government -- corrupt cesspool of corporate largesse that it is -- is capable of acting in the public interest anymore. I think the sorry performance of the 110th Congress is a pretty good case study. So maybe it's time to go for statewide programs.

On the good side (if you're looking to encourage activism), just about everybody has had their own personal HMO moment by now. But for the most part, all they do is bitch and piss and moan to each other, spending all their activist energy preaching to the choir. These people have to organize locally, regionally and, eventually, state-wide.

They have to become an enormous pain in the ass to their elected representatives in state capitals everywhere. They also need health care professionals to validate their opinions and verify their stories. Fortunately, there are about 13,000 physicians nationwide who belong to PNHP (info below), many of whom are dead serious activist on this issue.

Another thing is putting together a set of rebuttal points so that every time some paid industry apologist comes out with the usual horseshit about how awful the Canadian system is and how wonderful we've got it by comparison and blah, blah, blah... we have an easy, fact-based way to blow them out of the water. With gross immodesty, I recommend four articles I've done on the single-payer issue -- including two of them describing how to argue against industry shills and win -- available here, here, here and here.

There's a lot of other things that are spelled out on numerous pro-universal access websites. The best starting point I've found is, as I mentioned above, Physicians for a National Health Program (PNHP). Have a look when you get a chance.


wp