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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 04:22 PM
Original message
Chavez warns of war with Colombia; Sends Tanks, Troops to Border, Closes Embassy.
Warning that Colombia could spark a war, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez sent tanks and thousands of troops to the countries' border Sunday and ordered his government's embassy in Bogota closed.

The leftist leader warned Colombia's U.S.-allied government that Venezuela will not permit acts like Saturday's killing of top rebel leader Raul Reyes and 16 other Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia guerrillas at a camp across the border in Ecuador.

"Mr. Defense Minister, move 10 battalions to the border with Colombia for me, immediately — tank battalions, deploy the air force," Chavez said during his weekly TV and radio program. "We don't want war, but we aren't going to permit the U.S. empire, which is the master (of Colombia) ... to come to divide us."

He ordered the Venezuelan Embassy in Bogota closed and said all embassy personnel would be withdrawn. It pushes already tense relations between the South American neighbors to their lowest point yet, with potentially far-reach effects on billions of dollars in cross-border trade.

Though Chavez didn't say how many troops he was sending, a Venezuelan battalion traditionally has some 600 soldiers — meaning some 6,000 could be headed to the border.

Chavez called the Colombian government "a terrorist state" as he sided with the leftist rebels it has battled for decades, saying its military "invaded Ecuador, flagrantly violated Ecuador's sovereignty."

more at link: http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila/Chavez_warns_of_war_with_Colombia_03022008.html
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
1. You think oil is going up?
me too..
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
2. This is likely to get ugly
But I'm sure that was what Bushco had in mind.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Does Venezuela have a non-Aggression Pact with Ecuador?
It is a bit strange that Chavez would actually go to War with
Columbia over this matter.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 04:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Chavez isn't stupid
He'll have his forces waiting at the border, and if he's really smart, he'll invite UN observers to watch.

Here's what's likely to happen: Columbia will violate Venezuela's borders "hunting for terrorists." Chavez will shoot back, and if Columbia doesn't retreat, The US will probably say that we need to protect Columbia.

That's when this will get ugly.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. I agree. n/t
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. No he is acting in HIS best interest
his actions and jaw jacking will drive up the cost of oil. The only thing of value he sells.

He will not start a war. Nor will columbia.

Lot of fuss over a dead communist.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #8
22. "...HIS best interest"? Chavez is the PRESIDENT of Venezuela, freely elected
by the people, in highly monitored, transparent elections, and, true to his campaign promises, he is using the oil profits to help bootstrap the vast poor population--with education, medical care, community centers, small business loans, land reform, and dozens of other programs--and to help Venezuela recover from "neoliberal" ruin. Venezuela now has a 10% growth rate, with the most growth in the PRIVATE sector. It has reduced poverty by 40%, and has nearly eliminated illiteracy. If Venezuela, which is dependent on oil, is to have a future, this is what it MUST do: use the oil profits for development.

Chavez gets considerable credit for this--the vast improvements are the result of his policies. So, of course, higher oil prices are in "his" interest--although he has NEVER used Venezuela's military for this kind of purpose, so I think you are wrong about his motive. And why do you stress "his"--as if he were the only person in Venezuela? You imply motives of greed and powermongering for which there is no evidence. You and the rightwing often do this--personalize everything to do with Venezuela, and boil it down to one man. Chavez is not only the elected leader, he enjoys a 70% approval rating. He is speaking and acting for Venezuela, legitimately--unlike, say, Bush, who has a 19% approval rating and is speaking and acting for global corporate predators and rightwing nutballs.

And, like other posts of yours today, you promote the idea that Chavez might start a war--even as you say that he will not, that his motive is higher oil prices. You plant the idea--that Chavez putting military forces on the border is provocative rather than defensive. I suspect that you thus give away what is going to be the Bushite/Rumsfeld line when COLOMBIA starts a war, at Bushite/Rumsfeld instigation. That it is Venezuela's fault. In fact, Colombia is already provoking hostilities by running over Ecuador's border--a Venezuelan ally--to kill people, completely unnecessarily, just as the released hostages, and world leaders, are calling for peace negotiations in Colombia's endless civil war.

Continued war in Colombia is in no one's interest but the war profiteers--and those greedy to take what is not theirs, in the Andes oil fields. It is in no one's interest but the warmongers--Uribe, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Exxon Mobil. And, if it happens, we will know who started it, and why.

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Venzuela and Ecuador are very strong allies. I don't know if they have a defense
pact. Venezuela does with Bolivia. So it probably does with Ecuador and also Argentina. They are all leftist (majorityist) governments, with similar social justice policies, and their leaders are good friends: Chavez in Venezuela, Rafael Correa in Ecuador, Evo Morales in Bolivia, Cristina Fernandez Kirchner in Argentina. Chavez also has a friend and strong backer in Lula da Silva of Brazil. Daniel Ortega in Nicaragua is also an ally of Venezuela. Indeed, friends and allies of Chavez and Venezuela cover virtually the whole continent of South America. Colombia is very isolated, and able to maintain its brutal fascist security forces and rightwing paramilitary death squads only with billions of our taxpayer dollars, filtered through Bushite fingers.

Bush-funded Colombia security forces have been making incursions over Venezuela's border for some time, with various excuses (the corrupt "war on drugs" being one of them), and causing incidents (such as pesticide spraying of Venezuelan peasant farmers).
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
12. This is the thing. The US has been using Colombia
Edited on Sun Mar-02-08 04:58 PM by sfexpat2000
to wage a low grade proxy war against the Chavez government. Sending in troops to flop houses to stage actions, building bases right up against the border. This is a total BushCo action via our bought client, the Colombian government.

It's not just this. This is just the latest. :(
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Rodriguez was in charge, CIA torture tapes Rodriguez
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Our Latin American "specialist".
:grr:
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. El Condor??
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 07:08 AM
Response to Reply #3
26. It's not really strange. Colombian forces have been found
in safe houses in possession of weapons inside Venezuela. If there's a Us sponsored hit on Chavez, it will likely be them.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. The chimpy backed violence is getting closer.
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SpiralHawk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. "Watch out, Hugo, or we'll sic Paraguay on you. Smirk." - Commander AWOL & Rev. Moon
Edited on Sun Mar-02-08 04:32 PM by SpiralHawk
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
7. So who do you think is promoting this madness
Check Bush and Cheney.
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Pavulon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 04:39 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. This is..
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 04:58 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. Donald Rumsfeld...
"The Smart Way to Beat Tyrants Like Chávez," by Donald Rumsfeld, 12/1/07
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/30/AR2007113001800.html

And here's a little background on his fascist buds in Colombia...
"The Chainsaw Massacre" Is Not a Movie in Colombia: Witness" (4/19/01)
by Jacques Thomet
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines01/0419-04.htm
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. I know
They don't care who dies as long as they control the world's oil.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. As I suspected, the source here is AP, not RawStory or "Mochilla" (whatever that is).
Go to the link. Here's what it says...

"Chavez warns of war with Colombia
"Chavez Sends Tanks, Troops to Border With Colombia, Orders Embassy Closed

"IAN JAMES
AP News
Mar 02, 2008 15:47 EST

"Warning that Colombia could spark a war, Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez sent tanks and thousands of troops to the countries' border Sunday and ordered his government's embassy in Bogota closed."
(MORE)
http://www.rawstory.com/news/mochila/Chavez_warns_of_war_with_Colombia_03022008.html

Whenever you see anything this distorted--"Chavez called the Colombian government 'a terrorist state' as he sided with the leftist rebels...."--you can be sure it's from one of two sources: the Associated Press, or the Bush Junta (which are often indistinguishable in their treatment of Chavez, Venezuela and the South American left).

--------------------

Donald Rumsfeld's Oil War II: South America has begun. I've been warning about it for months--ever since this...

"The Smart Way to Beat Tyrants Like Chávez," by Donald Rumsfeld, 12/1/07
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/11/30/AR2007113001800.html

See these threads for news/discussion of the Ecuador incident (Ecuador is a strong ally of Venezuela):
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3205852
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3206156

You might also want to see what Forbes Magazine has to say about Bushite strategy in South America (foolishly, stupidly hostile):
http://www.forbes.com/business/2007/04/20/venezuela-hugo-chavez-biz-cx_0423oxford.html

Another informative source: www.venezuelanalysis.com

And my favorite web site: www.BoRev.net
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
19. "...as he sided with lefist rebels..." - some further thoughts.
Chavez does side with one of the rebels--at least in mourning him--further down in the article, if AP's quotes are to be trusted (and I have profound distrust of AP reporting on South America). According to AP, Chavez said that the rebel leader who was killed was "a good revolutionary." He also says (according to AP) that "he had just spoken to Ecuadorean President Rafael Correa and that Ecuador was also sending troops to its border with Colombia. Chavez said his Ecuadorean ally told him that Uribe had lied and that the rebels were killed while asleep 'in their pajamas.'"

Chavez also says (according to AP) that "The slaying of Reyes and 16 other guerrillas...'wasn't any combat. It was a cowardly murder, all of it coldly calculated.'" AP further reports (caveat--if true) that Chavez "called Uribe 'a criminal' accusing him of being a 'lapdog' of Washington saying 'Dracula's fangs are covered in blood.'"

While "as he sided with leftist rebels" is not the complete distortion that I initially thought it was, it is nevertheless a distortion. Chavez has never evidenced any sympathy or support for FARC kidnappings or killings. He has been trying to bring Colombia's 40+ year civil war to a peaceful end, first of all by convincing FARC to begin releasing hostages, which he has been successful at, despite every obstruction from the Bushites. Colombia's security forces (our taxpayer dollars at work) are obviously trying to sabotage these efforts by running over the border into Ecuador and killing people. Colombia is addicted to billions of U.S. dollars in military aid. This is how they earn it--by stirring up trouble with the leftist countries where the oil is, that Rumsfeld wants to regain control of, for Exxon Mobil.

Venezuela is now temporary home to millions of Colombian refugees, who have fled this long civil war, in which even "first world" human rights groups attribute most of the carnage to the Colombian government and its closely associated rightwing death squads. It is in Venezuela's vital interest to broker a peace in Colombia--and that is the last thing in the world that Rumsfeld, the Bush Junta and its war profiters and oil corporation puppetmasters want. They thrive on death and war. "Vampire" is no exaggeration.



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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 04:59 PM
Response to Original message
15. Colombia intruded into Ecuador. Then the OP follows.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 06:14 PM
Response to Original message
20. Context: "Chavez, freed FARC hostages call for political solution to Colombia conflict"
Here's why Rumsfeld's tool, Uribe, is trying to stoke up trouble with Venezuela and its allies, who represent the forces of peace in South America...

-----

Chavez, freed FARC hostages call for political solution to Colombian conflict
February 29th 2008, by Kiraz Janicke - Venezuelanalysis.com
Luis Eladio Pérez and Gloria Polanco speaking at the press conference in Caracas (Reuters)

Caracas, March 1, 2008 (venezuelanalysis.com) - Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez has called for international mediation group to negotiate a humanitarian accord in neighboring Colombia, after a successful Venezuelan led humanitarian mission secured the release of four former legislators held by the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC), on Wednesday.

During a telephone call to state owned VTV Thursday, Chavez indicated that France, Ecuador, Brazil and Argentina as well as the Organization of American States support such a move. It is "essential" that Venezuela is part of any international mediation group, because "the FARC have demonstrated that they don't believe in anyone else," he added.

In a communiqué, released minutes after the hostage handover the FARC said this would be the last unilateral hostage release. The FARC reiterated their longstanding call for a military free zone as a precondition for any further negotiations for a humanitarian exchange of 40 remaining high profile hostages for 500 imprisoned guerrillas. However, the Colombian government immediately rejected this proposal.

Chavez said the desire for peace by the majority of Colombians and that the pressure of world opinion would force Uribe to change his position.

"President Uribe is going to have to change his position. Everybody is in agreement except for Uribe, " he declared.

Speaking at a press conference in Caracas on Thursday night, the former Colombian legislators, Luis Eladio Pérez, Jorge Gechem, Orlando Beltrán and Gloria Polanco, also spoke out in favor of a military free zone to facilitate a humanitarian exchange.

"I publicly challenge President Alvaro Uribe to demonstrate the success of his policy of democratic security and clear the military from the municipalities of Pradera and Florida and after 45 days the Armed Forces can recuperate this territory," Perez said after his liberation. "The solution is political, Mr. President Uribe," he repeated twice during the press conference.

"If you persist in the foolishness of insisting on a military rescue you are going to receive, Mr President Uribe, 40 or 50 corpses. It is absurd to think of a military rescue with the conditions that we had in captivity. There would be a massacre," Pérez stressed.

He revealed that the four recently liberated ex legislators have a proposal to present "to President Uribe, the President (of France Nicholas) Sarkozy and, of course, to President (of Venezuela, Hugo) Chavez." This proposal would only be made public after the three heads of state had been informed, he said.

Pérez who classified the FARC as a "political military group who use terrorist practices" also referred to former Colombian presidential candidate Ingrid Betancourt, captured by the guerrillas in 2001, who he said is in a "very bad state of health."

In a message released in 2003 demonstrating Betancourt's proof of life, the former presidential candidate indicated that she was opposed any form of military rescue, as she feared a repeat of the tragedy that occurred in May that year when ex governor of Antioquia, Gilberto Echeverri, and the del ex Defense Minister, Guillermo Gaviria, died during a botched military rescue ordered by Uribe.

Betancourt maintains this position Perez said, however she is also conscious "of the high risk and lack of commitment of the President of the Republic."

In contrast Betancourt calls for a political solution to the conflict based on the Geneva Convention and believes that "fundamentally President Uribe has to recognize the political status of the FARC guerrillas," Perez said

Pérez also affirmed that after an attempted escape, Betancourt, "remained chained up during the night," and her captors, "humiliated her, obliged her to walk barefoot, tied her to trees and rationed her food."

Ex congressman Orlando Beltrán condemned "all terrorist acts, wherever they come from. I condemn the terrorism of the FARC, of the paramilitaries and the terrorism of the State." He pointed out that Colombia "is the only country in the world that has disappeared an entire political movement, more than six thousand leaders of Unión Patriótica were disappeared, to speak only of this case."

Under a previous peace accord in the 1980's the FARC demobilized and formed Unión Patriótica, however after they laid down their arms thousands of former guerrillas were hunted down by paramilitaries, backed by the Colombian state, and massacred, forcing them back into the armed struggle.


Beltrán added that the Colombian State "has to assume responsibility and understand that they must create the conditions to achieve a humanitarian accord. I don't understand why, when make these handovers in a unilateral manner, they say they are not going to clear the military from a centimeter of the national territory."

Gloria Polanco asserted, "It is necessary to reach the heart of President Uribe, to speak to him, to explain, because he has to understand that if he does not clear the military from Pradera and Florida, which is what the FARC ask, our comrades will die in captivity."

"I am asking for a humanitarian accord, because they have to place value on life, not on a piece of land, not on a piece of territory," she said.

All four ex-legislators confirmed that they would participate in an international day of action organized by human rights organizations on March 6 in protest against paramilitary violence in Colombia. Uribe has condemned the protest scheduled to take place in some 150 cities around the world, claiming it is organized by the FARC.


(emphasis added)
http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news/3213
(Note: Venezeula Analysis is a Fair Use web site.)

-------------------------

This is WHY the Bushite-funded Uribe invaded Ecuador to kill FARC members--to stir up trouble and prevent peace. The Bushites are doing the same kinds of things in Iraq, and in Afghanistan. They do comparable things in political campaigns in the U.S. They thrive on hatred and conflict--and lies. They appeal to peoples' worst instincts--bigotry, hatred, revenge, and greed. Here we have world leaders calling for compromise that could bring about peace in Colombia. We have hostages of the FARC calling for peace. We have a willing peace negotiator, Chavez, who has put himself at risk to free hostages and to obtain a ceasefire--or at least a ceasefire zone. And what does Colombia do? It engages in a deliberately provocative act, kills more people, unnecessarily, and sabotages the peace effort.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-02-08 08:08 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. Thanks. That's some valuable info.
More Disaster Capitalism, it seems.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 05:40 AM
Response to Reply #20
24. Thanks for sharing this information. Completely helpful. n/t
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-03-08 06:14 AM
Response to Original message
25. . .
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