Please desist from attacking McCain because of his age.

[leftofthedial]

There are innumerable reasons to criticize him, but his age isn't one of them.

Agism is every bit as despicable as racism or sexism.

Calling McCain "Gramps" is akin to calling Obama "Sambo" or calling Clinton "Sugartits."

Stick to legitimate issues and it will better serve the Democratic cause.

[tridim]

1. Age is a legitimate issue especially after the Dick Cheney era.

That said, I don't think I've ever called him gramps.

[bleowheels]

3. I too, think that addressing his age is perfectly within the bounds. He...

chose to campaign for President. I think that it is fair game. I think one can bring up age without being disparaging. And I reserve my right to do this. But I respect the original poster's concern and I duly note it.

[leftofthedial]

5. Cheney's problem is health, not age

he has no heart, er, a sick heart.

McCain has skin cancer. Perhaps he has other health issues, but focusing on the mere fact of his age is just bigotry pure and simple.

[tridim]

13. His age and his poor health are the same issue IMO.

I should have been more clear there.

[leftofthedial]

30. so my 42-year old friend with inoperable cancer

is a better presidential candidate than my healthy 70-year old neighbor, because in your bigoted view older is the same thing as sicker?

[tridim]

42. You're completely twisting my words.

This has nothing to do with your neighbors.

McCain is both sick and old, therefore his health and age is a legitimate issue in choosing him as president. Are you really saying it's not? That's nuts.

What if he picks Cheney as his VP?

[leftofthedial]

54. health is grounds for criticism; age is a factor, but not grounds to label

him as ineligible

[tridim]

Right, and I agree.

:shrug:

I don't think I ever said he was ineligible due to age.

[zanne]

109. No, but your neighbor isn't running for president.

Who knows if Ronald Reagan was showing signs of Alzheimers while he was still in office? It happens to people. It's a fact that age has alot to do with it and once it's recognized, alot of damage can be done. And that's only one illness. We elect a president to serve out his/her term.

I'm not criticizing getting old...hell, I'm getting old! I just think that age does matter when someone aspires to hold an office like the presidency and commander-in-chief.

[Maine-ah]

49. it's a legit issue after Regan

and "I don't recall"

the reports of Regan having Alzheimer's during his presidency should make us very aware of a president's age. Though I think it should be an issue, to a certain extent, it shouldn't be the top attacking point.

[leftofthedial]

57. Alzheimers, not age, is the issue in your example.

and I agree. age is a factor, but not the main issue.

[smoogatz]

71. Alzheimer's is rare in young people, no?

And not so rare in old people.

[Maine-ah]

75. thanks smoog, that's what I was thinking

also, yes younger people get sick and die, but an older person has a greater chance of it.

[Iceburg]

83. And reckless uninformed behavior is almost exclusive to young people/nt

Bush ... an exception

[Maine-ah]

89. damn, the whole republican party is participating in

reckless and uninformed behavior.

[krispos42]

128. Bush is not an exception

He's emotionally like, what, 9?

[FalconsRule]

105. So if he gets Alzheimer's it's an issue

Until then, it's not. And you're guilty of ageism.

[smoogatz]

113. He thinks American troops should be in Iraq for another hundred years.

He may already have alzheimer's. And no, I'm not guilty of ageism.

[leftofthedial]

119. wanting to keep troops in Iraq is a great reason to go after him

has nothing to do with him being old.

[LeftyMom]

141. Nobody knew when he was running that he would develop Alzheimers

But it was certainly known that his age was such that it was almost a statistical certainty that he'd suffer serious health challenges (he had several cancerous tumors removed) or a significant natural decline with age (in his case, pronounced dementia.)

The presidency is hard on young, healthy people. Remember how much older Clinton looked after eight years of it? Now imagine a man of McCain's age, with a history of cancer, facing that stress for eight years. Would he even survive it? Let alone survive it in good shape, with no degradation in his performance? That's a reasonable question to ask, when you're risking the safety and security of three hundred million people.

[Ichingcarpenter]

2. I don't totally disagree but you do

realize that Obama been slammed because of his youthful inexperience.

[leftofthedial]

6. inexperience is an issue.

age is not.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

12. So is senility. nt

[leftofthedial]

31. are all "old" people "senile"?

and all women are "overly emotional."

and all African American males are "criminals."

and all Irish people are "drunks."

and all Polish people are "stupid."

you're a bigot.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

37. Apples and oranges, dear.

The fact is that people go through developmental stages, both physical and mental, through life. As is said in another post, it varies by individual. But the fact remains that there is a valid reason to treat children and teenagers differently from adults, and younger adults differently from older ones. If you don't believe so, then do you believe that children should be allowed to work full time in factories? Or that people over 65 should be stripped of some of the privileges that they have, like being able to live in retirement communities or get senior discounts?

[leftofthedial]

41. never said that.

senior discounts are marketing gimmicks and have nothing to do with this conversation.


Attack McCain for having bad judgment or having a despicable record or for being a fascist or for having a bad memory or for being in poor health. His age may (or may not) be a factor in any of those, but it is those characteristics, not his age, that bear on his unfitness to be President.

Many of the posts in this thread bear out my observation that the kneejerk "gramps" namecalling and the reflexive equating of "old" with "senile" indicate rampant ageism here. The place is FULL of age bigots.

[leftofthedial]

63. senility is not an inevitablity; in fact it is a disparaging, archaic and imprecise term

at what age does one become "too old" to be a legitimate candidate?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

97. I have no idea.

My b/f's 88 yo mom is living independently and doing great, while my own mother required full-time care at the age of 64 due to early-onset Alzheimers.

As for McCain, my understanding is that there are concerns with his physical health. I'm sure he's fine mentally. I think you are talking about 2 somewhat different things in your OP. On the one hand, there are legitimate issues to raise about the oldest ever POTUS nominee. On the other, there are the insulting characterizations about his age. It's a fair point, but you know, I'm done with coddling the GOP at this point. If calling him Gramps repeatedly wins the election, then I'm okay with it. Trust me, it's nothing compared to what they will throw at Hillary or Barack. I personally like how Obama compliments McCain's "half a century of service".

[Maine-ah]

114. my Great Grandmother lived independantly until she was 94

when she died. Though I don't think she should have been running the country.

Age is a factor, otherwise we wouldn't have a designated age for being able to run for president.

[Winterblues]

15. And that is very legitimate as well

Age is , whether you like it or not a factor, as is experience, and in fact to many "Americans" so is sex and race a factor..Many things enter into the equation when you vote for President.

[L. Coyote]

Ditto that, and Remember Reagan's memory problems too!

There are very valid, legitimate reasons to have concerns about the age of a person
with significant responsibilities impacting others, i.e. pilots are regulated.

This is a valid issue. However, it must be considered with reason, not bias and prejudice.

[leftofthedial]

14. age is not equal to bad memory. age is not equal to poor health.

McCain is younger than legal retirement age for most professions.

Focus on his abilities or lack thereof. Focus on his atrocious record of corruption and flip flops. Focus on his health. NONE OF THOSE is the same thing as his age.

Agism is bigotry.

[Seeking Serenity]

26. Agism is bigotry.

Cannot be repeated often enough.

[L. Coyote]

27. It matters if you are piloting a jet full of people, does it not? Age matters and

understanding and recognizing that is not prejudice.

Every voter has the right to consider this issue on its merits, and to consider if the issue has merits.

I, for one, know some risks are increased by having an old person as President, and some benefits can accrue too. Noone should be encouraged to ignore reality, just to ignore prejudices!

[leftofthedial]

36. How does serving as President require hand-eye coordination?

Consider everything about candidates, including age. But dismissing him as "Gramps" and claiming he is "too old to be President" is bigotry.

[L. Coyote]

50. I'm not looking for an argument.

[krispos42]

131. It requires sound judgement and a sharp mind

Hand-eye coordination I don't believe is an issue with airline pilots. But you need sound judgement and a sharp mind, good memory, and the ability to track multiple critical details simultaniously.

[krispos42]

130. He is also significantly older than retirement age minimums

And like it or not, there is a significant chance during his potential 8 years as president of physical or mental health collapse, especially under the stress of managing the flailing, sinking United States.

The presidency ages people. Badly. If it's not, it's because you're delegating too much. Example is Bush, who is delegating everything to aids and consultants and Cheney, and everybody except Cheney is replaced every couple-three years.

Another factor to consider is McCain manipulating has age to gain public sentiment and sympathy like Reagan did. If he gets in trouble and claims "I don't recall", he can cynically use that to avoid responsibility.

[RedCappedBandit]

4. Age can be a legitimate issue. nt

[RebelOne]

7. Yes, thank you. It irks me, also.

Especially because I am 69 years old and do not like being referred to as Grandma. In fact, my grandkids do not dare call me Grandma. I'm Nana.

[bryant69]

8. Callin g him gramps is beyond the pale, perhaps

But it is fair to say that his vice presidential candidate should be examined closely. And since he's almost certainly going to have to pick a right wing extremist to shore up his base support, well it's worth underlining that.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[leftofthedial]

66. good point

it's not that his age is irrelevant--it is an important factor.

but I've seen dozens of posts here attacking him personally for being too old, calling him names -- and it's just bigotry.

[Lance_Boyle]

9. I think we should call McCain 'sugartits.'

The fact that in his senility he may respond to it is icing on the uncensored cake.

[monmouth]

10. Age is absolutely a legitimate issue. Memory, verbal gaffes, etc...n/t

[leftofthedial]

18. Memory and verbal gaffes yes, but those are not synonymous with age

any more than being a convicted felon is synonymous with being African American.

[Iceburg]

85. Obama gaffes today -- gets the name of the reporter wrong, plus claims to have won MI

MSNBC interview with David Gregory
http://youtube.com/watch?v=f0ckXrbfldY

What's he smokin'?

[leftofthedial]

120. he must be senile

don't you think?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

11. Bullshit.

It's no more ageist to take into consideration someone's advancing age (bearing in mind that it's a process that varies greatly among individuals) for a position such as POTUS, than it is to insist that the person be at least 35 years old, as the Constitution stipulates. Do you consider the age minimum to be "ageist"? What about other minimum ages, like for voting, working, drinking, or driving? I mean, why DON'T we let 14 year olds buy beer? Why be so "ageist"?

FTS, it's a legitimate point. Besides, it's one of the bigger advantages either of our candidates have over him.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Beregond2]

16. Old

My mother is 87, and every time she sees McCain, she says: "What's that old fart doing running for President?" LOL

[Justitia]

17. Sorry, after Reagan, it's a very valid concern. The man is too old to be president. -eom

[leftofthedial]

25. Reagan had Alzheimers. Does McLame have Alzheimers?

Why do you hate our Constitution? It defines no age at which someone is "too old to be President." Who gets to decide what age is "too old"? You? I know a 72-year old woman who is smarter, sharper, and more energetic than most of the slacker gen X lumps I know. She could probably kick their asses too. Is she "too old" to be President. You need to examine your bigoted assumptions about age.

[Justitia]

28. Who knows? We didn't know about Reagan at the time either. Sorry, it's a valid question.

And why the fuck are you defending our opponent?

Planning to vote for the RWer?

[mrreowwr_kittty]

33. According to this OP, you are now a bigot. nt

[Justitia]

34. LOL - yeah, I hate old people - LOL. Why are they helping the senile RWer? -eom

[Name removed]

35. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maine-ah]

116. "slacker gen X lumps "

there's some ageism right there. Not all of us gen-x'er's are what you claim. Most of us bust our asses to make a living in this crappy economy.

If age isn't a factor, then why do you have to be 35 to run for president?

As one ages, brain cells die. Memories are lost, risk factors for certain diseases go up. It's all part of the ageing process. It sucks, but yes, we have to take this into consideration.

[leftofthedial]

121. at least some of the slacker Gen x lumps

are better than the gen Y lumps



(I was being sarcastic in response to posters' widespread use of age-related stereotypes in this thread. My apologies to any Gen X or Gen Y lumps who took offense to my over-the-top stereotypical characterization.)

[Ganja Ninja]

29. Yup.

We need a leader that is physically and mentally capable of doing the job. The constitution sets down a minimum age for the president presumably for that reason. Why shouldn't we also consider whether or not a person is too old to handle the job?

[leftofthedial]

61. age is a factor, but not directly a disqualifier

and using his age to call him names, demean him or to call his fitness for the job into question is age-based bigotry.

If he is not physically or mentally capable, show evidence of that and make it an issue.

[Ganja Ninja]

103. Questioning a person's fitness due to his age ...

for a job like the presidency is merely a practical consideration. It's not as if were telling him to go to the back of the bus or making him a second class citizen. It's not bigotry and to try and call it that is ridiculous.

[leftofthedial]

123. raising legitimate concerns about his age is one thing

calling him names based on his age and making claims like "he is too old to be president" and equating age with "senility" (an insulting term) is another.

If there are health concerns, the health concerns are the issue, not his age. If he has mental problems, those are the issue. He is not unfit because he is 70. He is unfit because he is a lying, corrupt asshole. He might be unfit because he has health problems that would render him unfit to serve.

We can not pretend here that someone who is 70 automatically has dementia.

[notadmblnd]

112. reading through your posts.. I began thinking..

when did being called Gramps become derogatory?

[leftofthedial]

124. "Sugartits" is a nice word too

used in some contexts.

"Pickaninny" was always used in a bemused, friendly way too.


It has been used repeatedly here in a condescending way to imply that McBush isn't really up to the job and might not be fully accountable for his gaffes.

[Chiyo-chichi]

145. He shook his own wife's hand (as if he barely knew her) at a N.H. campaign rally.

She gave him a funny look. I very much wish I could find a video of it. Another DUer told me that he did it more than once.
I'm sure he was tired, but I take it as evidence that perhaps his mind is not as sharp as it ought to be.

[otherlander]

46. Reagan wasn't too old, he was just a murderer.

[skids]

96. Age's affect on mental energy is well documented...

...though I have to wonder if that's all that is to blame in McCain's case.

There are of course exceptions -- seniors with seemingly boundless mental energy. I can tell already I'm not going to be one of them, and I'm only in my 30s. Not looking forward to that.

Hopefully the SENS institute's work will eventually figure out how to do away with most of the declining cognitive performance during senescence. But in the meantime it is what it is.

[selador]

122. most stereotypes are based on generalities - age is no exception

on average, as men age they have less testosterone, less mobility, they lose lean body mass, they need less sleep, memory issues become more prevalent, their bones become more brittle, etc. etc.


but these are ON average. many stereotypes, including ageism rest on the assumption that you can apply aggregate or "on average" stuff to individuals.

the point, rightly made here is that old people are individuals. some people are 70 are more mentally acute than others at 30.

etc.

so, yes it IS ageism to constantly criticize his age. criticizing results of his age that have affected him as an individual is another issue entirely.

just because certain characteristics are more statistically likely to be present in your "group" (age, race, gender, etc.) does not justify using a broad brush to assume that any member of that group necessarily is prone to any of that.

again, many stereotypes ARE true - for general populations. men are taller than women on average. it doesn't mean man X is taller than woman Y.

criticize mccain for his obvious shortcomings (cue: short people'ism jokes). not his age

[liberal N proud]

20. Yeah, I remember hearing that when Raygun was running

And look at that cluster.

Age is important. He is too fucking old to run the country.

[Amonester]

23. He is too out of touch also. Proof in my sig line:

[leftofthedial]

38. out of touch is a legitimate concern

my rich friend's spoiled 14-year old is also out of touch

[A HERETIC I AM]

69. YOU have a "rich friend"?!?

A person who regularly spouts sentiments like "goddamned fucking capitalists" and "capitalism doesn't work" has a rich friend? Holy shit! :spray: I would have thought the second you found out this person was rich, you would have turned and left in a huff, seeing as how you repeatedly make it abundantly clear how much you loathe all things having to do with the amassing of wealth. Unless, of course, this is the generous neighbor providing you your free internet access. Then it makes perfect sense.

McCain is old. Pointing it out is not "Ageism". Suggesting that he might not be an effective president because he is elderly isn't either. And calling him "Gramps" barely rises to the level of "who gives a fuck?"

[leftofthedial]

95. age discrimination is bigotry. It is just like racism. and sexism.

I don't give a lukewarm squirt about McBush. There are many excellent reasons to disparage him. But bigotry is not a substitute for criticism. If he were black and you called him "nigger," I'd call you on that too.

Capitalism is the main reason we have incompetent, dark-hearted assholes like McBush running for President. Amassing great wealth is (or should be) a crime. The earth can no longer afford it.

I do actually have one rich friend. She has no 14-year old daughter though. That was me exercising rhetorical license in order to point out that age and being out of touch have no causal relationship. If you read more, you'd understand.

My neighbor's wireless network was on the fritz, but I fixed it for her. She doesn't mind me using her Internet access. She rarely uses it, except to email her grandkids once in awhile and to play cards on line with her old buddies.

[A HERETIC I AM]

100. More nonsense.

bigot
Main Entry:big·ot
Pronunciation: \ˈbi-gət\
Function:noun
Etymology: French, hypocrite, bigot
Date: 1660
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

John McCain is not a "group". He is an elderly man who is a candidate for president. Considering his age as perhaps a disqualifying or mitigating factor in his qualifications for the job IS NOT BIGOTRY.

"Discrimination" has an ENTIRELY different definition.

Main Entry: dis·crim·i·na·tion
Pronunciation: \dis-ˌkri-mə-ˈnā-shən\
Function: noun
Date: 1648

1 a: the act of discriminating b: the process by which two stimuli differing in some aspect are responded to differently2: the quality or power of finely distinguishing3 a: the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually b: prejudiced or prejudicial outlook, action, or treatment <racial discrimination>

Main Entry: dis·crim·i·nat·ing
Function: adjective
Date: 1647
1: making a distinction : distinguishing <a discriminating mark>
2: marked by discrimination: a: discerning, judicious <discriminating buyers> b: discriminatory <accused of discriminating practices>

Definitions from http://www.merriam-webster.com/

If I EVER called a black person the "N" word, you would have every right to call me on it, but RACE is not a possible mitigating factor for qualifying for the job as President of the United States. AGE MOST CERTAINLY CAN BE.

Lastly, this statement;

Capitalism is the main reason we have incompetent, dark-hearted assholes like McBush running for President. Amassing great wealth is (or should be) a crime. The earth can no longer afford it.

Bullshit. "The main reason we have incompetent, dark-hearted assholes like McBush running for President" is not because of Capitalism. There are plenty of Capitalistic countries who have leaders we envy. The reason we get choices like McCain as candidates is because the American people DON'T DEMAND MORE of their political system. And if you actually think that amassing great wealth is or should be a crime, then I ask if you would be willing to do away with the thousands of charitable trusts set up by wealthy individuals through the years that do an enormous amount of good in this world. Should we do away with the Pew Charitable Trust? (Set up by the children of the founder of Sun Oil Company). Or the Doris Duke Foundation? Or the Carnegie Endowment? Not every rich person is Gordon Gecko, sitting on his millions in a beach house in the Hamptons or Palm Beach. And just because there ARE the equivalent of Gordon Geckos in this world, it does not mean that every person or family that has amassed a fortune is inherently evil.

If it is an opinion you hold, and you have repeatedly made it clear you do, then THAT is the definition of bigotry.

[leftofthedial]

53. the problems with raygun as president have nothing to do with his age

he was a genocidal fascist

[EFerrari]

21. Thank you. n/t

[Jim__]

22. When I watch McCain fumbling for an answer in a debate ...

... I see it differently than when I watch Obama fumble for an answer.

I'm getting old, and I realize that as I age, my mind gets less sharp, my ability to react quickly weakens, my ability to stay focused over long periods weakens. I think its a legitimate issue to raise.

[bdamomma]

24. I would rather call him McSame

cause if this guy gets in we will be continuing with the same sh$t and more wars, do we really want this for another 4 years, talk about abusing ourselves.

[leftofthedial]

44. fact.

[Bennyboy]

32. Like hell....

I would not fly with someone piloting a plane at 72.

I would not get into a car with someone that age unless I knew damn well they could drive competently.

This is why they have mandatory retirement.

My parents are the same age now as he will be in 8 years and they are both totally insane and behind the times. They have no idea about what is going on in the world. NOT A FUCKING CLUE! everything is 1965 to them. They have health problems that take up most of every day. They have not been any different for about ten years.

I have quite a few friends in the seventies and eighties and NONE of them have the mental capaacity to be the head of anything, much less the complexities of running the USA..

Sorry but I want someone that grew up in today's world not some old man.

[leftofthedial]

45. how does being President require hand-eye coordination?

I wouldn't want ANY President in my lifetime piloting a plane I was in because NONE OF THEM WERE FRIGGING PILOTS (except for king george and his friends even stopped flying with him).


I wouldn't want McLame to be President of anything. But claiming he is unfit specifically and merely because of his age is bigotry. It is exactly the same as saying you don't want Obama to be PResident because his kind are all drug dealing gang bangers.

[Justitia]

47. "his kind"? Boy, you are really walking a tightrope today. Not funny anymore. -eom

[leftofthedial]

55. EXACTLY my point. you are stereotyping older people. McCain is too old

(you say) because "his kind" are all senile.

That is bigotry.

You want to be very careful about going down that path. For example, a very high percentage of women Clinton's age are pre-, post- or menopausal. Effects of menopause include emotional volatility, problems focusing and concentrating, short attention span, memory problems and various physical, mental and emotional discomforts. Those sound like a possible problem for anyone who wants to be President, don't they? Perhaps middle-aged women should be considered "too female" to be President (by your logic).

Find the real issues that make McBush a poor choice. Using his age is unwise and unnecessary.

[Warren DeMontague]

39. Can I call him "Cramps", instead?

[leftofthedial]

59. LOL

[Matariki]

40. His age will be a very important factor is he chooses Jeb Bush as his running mate.

Or gets Alzheimer's like Reagan.

But I agree with you that age based insults should be beneath us.

[leftofthedial]

56. we agree

I think age is a valid issue, but is not a disqualifying factor in and of itself. Using age to insult or demean is bigotry.

[BlueStater]

43. It's a perfectly legitimate issue

And I call McLame "Gramps" not as an insult to all elderly people but as an insult to...well...McLame.

[Vickers]

48. Does that mean I can't call him McCane?

:shrug:

His age could affect his job performance...sex and color will not.

[leftofthedial]

62. ever heard of menopause?

ever heard of test scores?

everything about everyone affects their job performance. Focus on real issues. Discuss his age. Will he stay in good health long enough to do the job? Who is the VP? If you have specific evidence of some health or mental factor that affects his job performance, by all means let her rip. But attacking him specifically for being "old" is just age-based bigotry.

[Vickers]

118. OMG, he's menopausal?

:(

[DesertRat]

51. k&r

[Perry Logan]

52. Can we attack him because he is obviously at DEATH'S FUCKING DOOR?

[Karenina]

58. He could step through it at any minute

as could we all...

[leftofthedial]

60. obvious to whom?

Ten days ago, we were all over him because he was banging a 40-year old lobbyist. Now he's dying? Do you have evidence of this?

[Perry Logan]

70. Dude, it's hyperbole. You know--mocking the opponent. Frequently seen in politics.

[leftofthedial]

94. If McBush was black

would it be okay to mock him by calling him "nigger"? If he was female, would it be okay to call him "bitch"?

same thing. age discrimination is bigotry.

[TahitiNut]

64. I think the younger folks who demean "old people" and use ageist epithets should walk the talk ...

... and do their little world a favor by NOT GETTING OLD. There's an alternative ... and they're free to choose it. The sooner the better.

:shrug: :eyes:

In the meantime, I'll go running with Logan.

[slackmaster]

65. Health is certainly an issue, chronological age is not

I think McCain has early symptoms of Alzheimer's Disease.

[leftofthedial]

67. can't disagree

[Greyskye]

79. or Mad Cow

"You calves - get out of my pasture!"

[Canadiana]

68. Since age is associated with health

(and I hate to sound like i'm talking down here...but it is a simple fact that the older one gets the more health problems one has) and health is a valid criticism...then age should also be a valid criticism.

[smoogatz]

72. I disagree.

I think McCain's age is a legitimate concern as it applies to his physical and mental fitness for what, when done right, is an extremely demanding job. I don't think there are any similar legitimate implications for race or gender, so I don't think in this case it's proper to equate race-based or gender-based doubts about the candidates with concerns about McCain's age. You don't want someone who's suffering from senile dementia running the country, any more than you want a petulant dry drunk running the country.

[MzNov]

73. OMG it will divide the Party!

[mahina]

74. Agreed, it is ugly and

disrespectful. Disagree on substance, not on age, race, or gender- it's beneath us.

[Chovexani]

76. We can bring up his age, a legit issue

Without resorting to insults and slurs about it.

Apropos of nothing the man is BATSHIT INSANE. He's like Mr. DiMartino from Daria in 30 years.

[devilgrrl]

77. Here's a criticism: What's so heroic about having your plane shot down?

He sounds like he was one shitty pilot!

[Thickasabrick]

78. I disagree - age is very relevant - I personally think everyone over

70 needs a special driving test....yearly.

[RebelOne]

143. Let's see if you still feel that way when you hit 70 (if you hit 70).

[Anser]

80. Oh, come now

In the politcal realm there is plenty of agism. But it is NOT against the old. The old run the damn show. Its the young without a voice. Don't say they are just apathetic. Is Du'er Ava apathetic? What about all those that could be drafted before they could even vote.


The young take the brunt of agism. Youth and inexperience are broguht up about any candidate that isn't a fossil. A 72 year old man shouldn't be president. At that age, with current technology, the human body and brain is fast on its way to shutting down. I'm sorry to the older generation, we'll all be there one day, and we feel for you. But, step aside and let some new blood and new ideas in, will you?

And let us have a voice.

We love you gramps, but we don't think you should be running the country.

[tavalon]

81. Absolutely!

Besides, there are a million legitimate things to attack him on. Age is a slippery one anyway, because before our culture became so youth oriented, age was associated with wisdom, something McCain is quite bereft of but could be said to have based on his age. Condemn him for stupidly tying himself to Bush, condemn him for being against torture before he was for it before he was against it before he was for it........., condemn him for filp flopping on campaign finance reform, condemn him for improprieties with a lobbyist and so on.

[Booster]

82. I'm 65 and don't think you should elect me as President either.

Age is a real issue when it comes to McCain, especially if you add in his health problems. If most people are forced to retire by age 70, then no one that age should be President. Also, if Obama's skin color and Hillary's gender are fair game, well.......

[jmondine]

84. I would only bring it up if he chooses a scary wingnut running mate...

We could still end up with President Huckabee

[lonestarnot]

86. I suppose lumpy isn't ok either. Snort!

:rofl:

[KG]

87. "Sugartits."?

:rofl:

[Roland99]

99. I was thinking more along the lines of saccarin....

[Warren Stupidity]

88. No. Please continue to throw the kitchen sink at him. Nt.

[varelse]

90. I agree

there's no reason to alienate older voters or to insult older people. Those insults are cheap shots and gain no political ground.

[Stinky The Clown]

91. After St. Ronald, age *is* an issue. After Cheney, health is an issue, too.

What does McCain do to stay healthy? Is he healthy?

Do we run against McCain or his (probably very much younger) veep?

Sorry. You may see it as ageism. I see it as a VERY real and VERY legitimate issue.

[CTyankee]

127. Yes, and McCain hasn't yet released his medical records, according to the NY Times.

Now that I am in my 60s and retired I realize how much time I have to spend on my health. There are more and more screenings for age related illnesses and conditions. There are indisputable statistic about these age related health problems. It's just the way it is, IMO. Sure, there are many spry elderly people, but I don't think spry equals competent to run the country.

[Medusa]

92. I'm not real comfortable of making fun of his kids or his wife either

it's okay to ask legit questions about questionable dealings, etc. but let's stay out of the attack the family shit okay?

[Generator]

93. Well if you are over 92

even the "Christmas song" thinks you don't get a Merry Christmas. Of course, maybe 92 never happened much in the fifties. No cut off at all-well then the thing that will not die will be back. Hillary 2028!

[Roland99]

98. He's 71, gets tired just campaigning, speaks slowly.

And this guy would be in control of the country?

Age is VERY MUCH an issue!

[goclark]

101. I am a Senior and I think his age is an issue

He is saying that Obama doesn't have enough experience because he hasn't been in government long enough.

So ~ when he is able to define how long is long-- we can define how old is too old to be a vibrant leader for the 21st Century.

I recall the first time I saw JFK. I was in college and it was so energizing to see someone without grey hair as the President.
This generation needs to be inspired to participate in our elections and be involved in their country.

They are not looking for McCain and they are not looking at Clinton.
To young voters the Viet Nam war is something from a history book.
And, in their eyes, McCain is History.

[AngryOldDem]

102. You have a point, but age should be an issue with him.

Take a look at him. He looks ill. If this is what campaigning for the office can do to him, what effect will holding the office have????

Another reason to be concerned: Mike Huckabee as McCain's VP.

So, yeah, I think age should not be off the table as a valid talking point; making disparaging comments about it, most definitely should.

[pleah]

104. Alls fair in politics.

[susankh4]

106. Thank You

I am beginning to wonder about my fellow Dems.

[Vinca]

107. I think his age is a very legitimate issue. When the phones rings

at 3 a.m., I want someone around who can hear it. I'm concerned about the thing on the side of his face, too. We haven't had any health updates and there are days the right eye is quite droopy. I don't want him in there with Jeb Bush as VP and then resign because he's dying of cancer.

[Hersheygirl]

108. I'm old, so what!

And I don't mind being called old. It's called life. When I was born I was called young, then I was a teenager, then an adult,now I'm old. I don't mind being called what I am. Age is just a number, albeit, a larger number. You are making a mountain out of molehill.

[SteelPenguin]

110. Have we forgotten William Henry Harrison?

Apparently.

Age is a factor. It's a grueling job that takes it's toll on younger healthier men. Even if McCain had no prior health issues, at the age of 71 his age is still a concern. Yes, healthy middle aged men of 35 keel over and just die for no reason, but not anywhere near the rate of men aged 71.

When we elect a president we're asking someone to take on one of the most difficult jobs emotionally, mentally, and even physically. The demands it makes on the President are so extreme you can watch president's age as they serve. A 71 year old man may be perfectly healthy, but the chances of him dying, or having a stroke, or a quick decline of mental capacity are much higher than a younger man.

A 71 year old should not be prevented from running for the presidency, but at the same time his age most certainly is a factor.

[spanone]

111. the age of a president is extremely important to me....

otherwise you are electing a vice president

[burythehatchet]

115. If anyone has seen his mother knows this is a NON-issue. Age can be an issue but not

in this case. His mother is one of twins who are 94 I think, and they look as spry as a 50 year old.

[SoCalDem]

117. I almost agree with you... almost..

He IS a grandpa..

He CHOSE to run for the most demanding job on the planet..and he KNOWS his age

We have a RIGHT to expect that our president will be vigorous & able (or at least of an age & health that it's likely to be that way)

Everything can be seen through an "ism" prism if one chooses to see it that way..

His AGE also causes him to think a certain way..because of his past experiences and the world HE grew up in..as opposed to the world we live in now..

He has a sense of humor and has critiqued himself as being "the old guy", so why should it be off limits to mention his age...

Every year that passes, puts us all closer to a time when our health will fail, and fail fast, for some of us. He has extra infirmities because of his POW years, and of course melanoma often returns (as it did for him, at the end of the 2K debacle)


Recognizing ones own limitations is something we should expect from epople as they age...no matter their personal aspirations..

[kath]

125. Age IS relevant when we're choosing a president. Anna Quindlen had a recent column on this issue:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/105554
How Old Is Too Old?
Race, gender—they're both up for grabs in this presidential election. It's age that has become the new taboo in a vitality culture.


Excerpt:
I'm aware that there are women and men who perform brilliantly at arduous jobs far past the time the rest of us would be phoning it in or tuning it out. But the job McCain seeks is like no other, in its demands and its import. It's significant that while the old mandatory retirement age of 65 has been largely junked, there are still age limits for jobs like airline pilot or police officer, the kinds of jobs that require some of the same skills as the presidency—unwavering mental acuity and physical energy.

Political operatives say that his age makes McCain's choice of a running mate particularly critical. But if you enter the process stressing a hedge against mortality or incapacity, shouldn't that suggest something about suitability for the job in the first place? The senator's pursuit of the presidency reminds me a bit of those women who decide to have a baby in their late 50s. The impulse is understandable, the goal possible. But, looking at all the facts, and the actuarial tables, is it really sensible?

[dflprincess]

126. My mom is 84 and says McCain is too old

n/t

[LanternWaste]

129. It's as invalid as faulting the youth for lack of wisdom and experience...

In 2008, I'd vote for Jimmy Carter in a heartbeat-- that guy's still as sharp as a tack. Point being- age-related health problems vary from individual to individual, so I can't really fault someone for being old and leaving that as a deal breaker for any reason.

I suppose if I did, I'd have to accept the corollary-- never to trust anyone under thirty due to their lack of wisdom and life-experience.

[GoneOffShore]

132. Nope - It's a legitimate concern

[GoneOffShore]

133. Nope - It's a legitimate concern

And I'm an old fart too. Just turned 60, so I've officially got the "cranky old guy" card in the wallet.

I shall continue calling him McCane or Gramps or Stupid Old Fart.

You do what you want.

[leftofthedial]

134. ok gramps

don't hit me with your cane

[GoneOffShore]

137. You whippersnapper - I'll get you with my cane - when I find it.

Now where did I put the damned thing?

[cynatnite]

135. You are right! n/t

[earth mom]

136. I've seen it all now. We're supposed to be sensitive to McCains age?! On DU?! WTF?!

:wtf:

Sorry, but those bastards on the right have ripped dems up one side and down the other for YEARS, have turned the word "liberal" into a dirty word and you want us to tiptoe around whether McCain is too old or not?!

No fucking way! I'm not gonna ki$$ rethuglican a$$! McCain is nothing more than warmongering OLD FART! And that's putting it nicely!

It's a joke that McCain's even running for office!

Not only that, but people should look deeper and ask WHY such an old dude is being supported by the rethuglican party!

Could it be they have their REAL candidate in the wings as McCains VP?!

:rant:

[OmahaBlueDog]

138. Quoting Captain Barbossa:

" I decline to acquiesce to your request."

Age can be a really good thing: experience and perspective are two great benefits.

However, we're picking the President here: not hiring someone to answer phones in a call center. This is an incredibly demanding job. Can a 71 year old McCain deal with the stress and the hours? McCain is not a robust looking 71 like Reagan. Can he be anything more than a 1 term President? The reality is that a 71 year old is far more likely to die in office than a 60-something or a 40-something.

I'm sorry if Gramps offends you, but Americans have a long tradition of calling leaders "Gramps" "Skipper" "The ol' man" -- and it's nothing like "Sambo" or "Sugartits." In any event, all of America needs to grow thicker skin and not expect the world to cater to your definition of what is PC.

[MilesColtrane]

139. McCain should not be attacked for his age.

But, his life expectancy in office is a totally valid consideration.

I believe he's already lived longer than half the people born in 1936. His running mate's ability to take over in the event of his death is a necessary thing to think about.

As far as calling him "Gramps" goes, it's completely accurate as he has at least four grandchildren.

[Stinky The Clown]

140. How do you talk about life expetency yet not discuss age?

:wtf:

[MilesColtrane]

142. I didn't say don't discuss his age and the fact that he might die in office.

Attacking his mental acuity based on his age is out of bounds though. That's like attacking Hillary's emotional stability due to "female hormones" or some other bullshit.

I think it's OK however to attack his mental faculties based on the fact that he has chosen to be a life long Republican.

[Stinky The Clown]

144. You can't have it both ways .... there are no rules of fairness

And NO ONE is saying, as a blanket statement, no old people need apply.

The issue is THIS old person in THIS election cycle at the age he is NOW and the age at which HE will end HIS term and HIS current state of (un)health and HIS currently displayed mental slowdown and HIS physical debility ....... that's not about a class of people. It is about this ONE guy who would be president and every bit of it should and OUGHT to be fairly discussed.

I get it that you despise ageism.

This is not ageism. But to be sure the issues are related to THIS MAN's age.