court rules: parents do not have a constitutional right to homeschool

[The Straight Story]

California Court Says Religious Claim Doesn't Grant Homeschooling Right
Appellate judge: "Parents do not have a constitutional right to homeschool their children."

A California appellate court ruled last week that a family's religious convictions do not guarantee a right to homeschool their children.

"California courts have held that under provisions in the Education Code, parents do not have a constitutional right to homeschool their children," wrote Justice H. Walter Croskey for California's Second District Court of Appeal.

The parents, identified in court papers only by the last initial L, but identified by several news organizations as Phillip and Mary Long, told the court that their religious beliefs for homeschooling "are based on biblical teachings and principles." But that's not enough for an exemption from California education requirements, the court ruled February 28.

"Such sparse representations are too easily asserted by any parent who wishes to homeschool his or her child," Croskey wrote.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2008/marchweb-only/110-43.0.html

[ORDagnabbit]

1. not good! not good at all.

[Winterblues]

11. Why is it not good?

You don't believe American children should meet a certain educational standard? Why bother to demand any education at all then? Let's just go back to the roaring 20s then..

[XemaSab]

15. Some of the smartest people I know were homeschooled here in California

:(

[Winterblues]

17. Some of the dumbest as well

There has to be educational standards no matter where the teaching is done. A person has to go to school by law until either eighth grade or sixteen years of age. While home schooling can be done in place of regular school, there is no right to home school.School is mandatory.

[seriousstan]

37. But not in the numbers that the public school system is churning out stupid.

[Taverner]

2. YES YES YES!!!!!!!

Awesome!!!!!

Finally some sense about homeschooling.

For the record, I know many fine kids have come out of home schooling. Also some seriously fucked up individuals. But that's just it - you never know what you're going to get. And there's no way for the state to ensure every parent who homeschools isn't teaching the kids flat earth shit.

[Birthmark]

4. Off topic, but...

...I love your sig line. :)

[Taverner]

5. Why thank you

Most people think of Nihilism as depressing and doom oriented.

I see it as positive, liberating and empowering.

[Birthmark]

8. I'm no nihilist, but that's a good siggy. :)

[DJ13]

7. NOT Awesome!!!!!

No, bad at this time.

This kind of ruling during a Presidential election is like trowing read meat overboard into a shark tank.

The GOP will make this a national issue.

This is NOT a good thing to have happen at this time.

[Taverner]

9. Well considering Obama and HRC are pro civil liberties

They will probably side with the homeschoolers

McCain might not...

[China_cat]

12. It's wonderful.

It doesn't say you can't homeschool at all, just that if you do, you have to meet state educational requirements.

I wish we had a ruling like that here in SC. Homeschool parents don't have to adhere to any requirements. They can keep their kids home and ignorant and call it 'homeschooling' and the state can't touch them. There are others that use only the bible as a textbook. And it ruins the whole concept for those who homeschool because they want their kids to learn more than how to take a test.

[SoCalDem]

26. Several states are adding LouDobbs propositions onto their Nov ballots

probably worded something like this..

Mexicans should be given full rights to take your jobs, be citizens, get half-price houses & food, drive without paying for insurance,marry your kids, live in emergency rooms while they wait to give birth to quadruplets, who will live on welfare their entire lives

yes....... no.......

sometimes it's about school prayer, public prayer, the ten commandments
sometimes it's vouchers/homeschooling
some years it's abortion
sometimes it's gun control
occasionally it's stemcell/cloning
sometimes it's drug legalization..
it's always about "The Gays"

But this year we have a double-doozy since they have Senator Grumpipants as their new and improved Bob Dole..

This year we have the immigration thing, "The Gays", and probably a third...take your pick..


They HAVE to dust these tired ole "issues" off every election to get the piranhas off the couch & to tear them away from Jerry Springer long enough to go vote...Oh. and while you are THERE, Vote for Sen. Grumpipants

[Fireweed247]

10. change a few words- still true

I know many fine kids have come out of government schools . Also some seriously fucked up individuals. But that's just it - you never know what you're going to get. And there's no way for the state to ensure every parent who government schools isn't teaching the kids terrorism/Bush is a hero bullshit.

[Gormy Cuss]

13. If you're talking about public schools when you use the term "government schools"

(as opposed to the institutions of higher learning with that designation) the important difference is that the seriously fucked individuals from public schools were at least nominally provided with access to education to meet minimum standards whereas there is no such assurance that the homeschooled have and that's what this case is about. It doesn't prevent or restrict parents from making the choice to keep their kids away from formal schools, it only requires that they are teaching to the minimum standard.

[tsuki]

35. In Florida, not all government schools are public schools, so

the correct term is government schools. If you have admission requirements, you are a private school, no matter the funding source.

[The Straight Story]

19. I dunno, the amish seem to be pretty happy with their way of doing things

Diversity is not a bad thing, it's a freedom thing.

[Freddie Stubbs]

32. Good and bad results? Sound like public school

[alarimer]

3. Good.

They can homeschool; they just have to meet all the requirements- their bullshit religion does not exempt them from the law.

[Warpy]

6. Yes, it reaffirms the necessity of homeschooling parents to

meet the educational goals of the larger society even though they may wish to control how those goals are taught.

Providing a religious education while not giving the child the means to be a productive member of the larger society is not enough.

Around here, some teachers have quit the system and have opened up one room home schooling materials based schoolhouses for problem students. Many of those kids are blossoming for the first time.

Home schooling isn't all bad, in other words, as long as a balanced curriculum is taught. This ruling just upholds that requirement.

[Orsino]

14. I think I like this.

A parent who doesn't qualify for a teaching certificate shouldn't take over from the school system--whatever religious beliefs are espoused.

[HuffleClaw]

16. "Given the history of this family, which we need not discuss here, permitting the parents...

...to educate the children at home by means of a credentialed tutor would likely pose too many difficulties for the tutor"


- because the tutor would be required by law to EXPOSE the children to such things as real science and then be hassled by the parents? that said, although 'jesus camp'-style homeschooling simply scares me, i feel that if some loons want to raise their children to be churchbots so be it, though if said churchbots end up in a career such as that of a pharmacist and then decides that their 'religious sensibilities' won't allow them to dispense the morning after pill the churchbot in question should be fired and prosecuted for a violation of that person's rights.

[iamthebandfanman]

18. maybe now we can put more money into public education

oh wait, thatll never happen cause people would rather send their kids to a private religious school and demand the government pay part of it.


will we ever fund our public educational system adequately?

[Stanley Nickels]

31. It's anecdotal but

Most of the homeschooling and private school families I interface with don't want vouchers. They think that if the government has a part in the process (paying for it) they will want to force their standards or interfere in some other way. Most of them are perfectly happy paying for their homeschooling materials or private school tuition.

I think the push for vouchers and government paying for private school comes from the Pat Robertson / James Dobson types who are more interested in indoctrination and forcing their particular brand of Jesus down people's throats.

[RB TexLa]

20. Was it that their curriculum didn't meet the requirements set by the state?

If so, and that is what it looked like, doesn't end a right to home school. The article seems a bit alarmist.

I have a right to vote, I can't come to the polling station a day after the election and demand to vote because I have a right to vote.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. It's about the religious aspect

"A California appellate court ruled last week that a family's religious convictions do not guarantee a right to homeschool their children."

[RB TexLa]

24. I'm thinking it will be further appealed, this ruling could allow school districts to prevent

parents from enrolling their children in religious schools if someone wanted to push it. If someone wants a specific type of education for their children and it meets requirements set by the state in regards to compulsory education ages and curriculum I think the parents should have that right.

[proud2BlibKansan]

27. I don't see it that way

They claim they have a religious right to homeschool. The court says they don't. It's important to note that the court isn't saying they can't homeschool, only that they don't have a religious right to do so.

[RB TexLa]

28. Maybe but it seems a bit of a slippery slope, if I had children I'd put them in Catholic school base

on my religious beliefs.

[Stanley Nickels]

29. Exactly

I see where some home school families are getting alarmed about this but the only thing the court said was they do not have a religious right to home school. There were other issues here as the story mentioned possible abuse and the curriculum they used not being acceptable to the state - but the parents wanted blanket immunity from this by hiding behind their religion.

[Dr. Strange]

21. Don't like the decision...

but it seems pretty fitting in this age of NCLB.

[Igel]

23. State constitution.

Texas constitution has a homeschooling provision stipulating what qualified: reading, writing, and civics, IIRC. And any homeschooling parent has to have on file a "curriculum" (however sparse) saying that those things are taught, and how. No need, AFAIK, to show that the methods are sufficient, or defining what "reading, writing, and civics" are. I've read it's a good idea to maintain a portfolio of the kid's (or kids') work to show that they've been learning stuff.

Parents also get to issue a high school diploma that, according to law, has to be accepted by state institutions. How cool--and risky--is that?

"Smith said California is the most restrictive state in the country for homeschooling families."

I could believe that. Texas is near the opposite extreme.

[Stanley Nickels]

25. Texas

To further your point, we actually don't even have to file a curriculum or even notify the local school district or state that we are homeschooling our children. My wife and I have homeschooled our boys (1st and 3rd grade) and have never contacted or been contacted by the state or school district. I doubt the schools even know our kids exist.

[bumblebee1]

34. What? No math? n/t

[Stanley Nickels]

30. Link to story at San Francisco Chronicle

This provides a little bit more background and a less alarmist spin on the story

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/07/MNJDVF0F1.DTL

[Lilith Velkor]

33. YAAY! More targets for control-freak teachers and school bullies!

Maybe if we're lucky, we'll get more school shootings out of this!

:sarcasm: <--- for the fucking idiots

[Echo In Light]

36. "Education is a system of imposed ignorance" - Chomsky

And isn't this ruling sort of on par with the specific type of "socialism" rightists decry when applied to social safety nets/health care?

[kineneb]

38. here is the problem with religious homeschooling

I knew a very bright young lady who had been homeschooled by her fundamentalist parents for most of her k-12 time. When they were unable to keep up with the level she needed for high school, and started having "discipline problems" with her, she wound up in a public alternative/continuation school. She had a great deal of catching up to do there to meet graduation standards. Also, she had little idea of how to function in normal public situations and had to catch up with her social skills at the same time. She was almost painfully shy, from not having interacted with others much.

Fortunately, the school is excellent at helping those who don't fit in, and she has since graduated and gone on to collage, far away from her parents. I doubt she would ever homeschool any of her own children after her experience.

Lacking any standards, "religiously motivated" homeschooling often turns out people completely unprepared to function in the real world.