Charlie Crist wants the Dems to seat the delegates from Florida

[Stinky The Clown]

Watching him in Matthews' show. What a disingenuous turd.

Choice 1 - seat the delegates no matter what

Choice 2 - have the DNC pay for the do-over.

Forget why we find ourselves here.

Why does shit always seem to flow from Florida or Tejas?

One four letter word: Bush.

[thunder rising]

1. Crist is a R; hence wants Hillary the nominee 'cause they can beat her. But he has NO SAY in this.

[spanone]

2. he's full of shit....this is a party matter...

[lapfog_1]

7. Not true... a primary is an election

and only the state can pay for state run elections.

However, I believe he want the current slate of delegates seated because he wants the race to be Hillary V McCain. A race that I believe conservatives have always wanted (well, they wanted to run against Hillary, I don't think they really wanted McCain).

A caucus is a different matter, the party can have that anytime with no state involvement, and the party, either the DNC of the Florida Democrats, pay for that themselves.

I was informed earlier that Dean has withdrawn his long standing offer to pay for a redo caucus in Florida.

[RBInMaine]

3. There was NO campaign there. So it's a NUTTY idea !

[ingac70]

4. Then he needs to hold a new contest. n/t

[spanone]

6. he wants one, but he doesn't want his state to pay for it....wants the dem party to pay

[iamthebandfanman]

5. all conservatives/republicans want them to count

and i swear, ill leave the democratic party if they let them.

if people in florida and michigan are so upset about losing their dels, then maybe they should fire the people who run their state party.
nobody made your state parties break the national parties rules...infact they were warned far in advance that theyd be punished for moving the date, and they did anyway. wanna complain? complain to them and take their jobs away.

[IowaGirl]

8. The Republican governor and legislature created the Democratic primary problem by moving

the primaries ahead. I feel sorry for the Democratic Floridians. This mess was created by Repubs who didn't care if their Democratic citizens were disenfranchised. I can't understand why the Democratic National Committee doesn't make a special exemption in this case because it was obviously out of the Democrats control when the Repubs moved all primaries forward. :grr:

[Stinky The Clown]

9. You're correcvt, of course, but the fact is - once again - the Repubics handed us our ass on a plate

There's no way we can spin this in our favor.

There's no way eyes won't glaze over before we finish explaining to the masses what happened.

When will we stop being lightweights when it comes to fighting our enemies? No **wonder** people don't trust us to 'be tough'.

We're a bunch of whistle asses.

[global1]

11. The Repugs Created The Problem and Crist Is Further Fueling The Fire......

you know if the Dems don't include Fl - Crist and the Repugs will cry 'disenfranchisement' of voters and make it a big issue in the GE. Crist and the Repugs are keeping the pressure on and backing Dean and the Dems into a corner.

[NC_Nurse]

10. STFU Crist. Not your party.

[LSparkle]

12. Tweety did a good job (for a change) setting out the political reasons why

He spelled out exactly how Crist is in a no-lose situation by behaving
as he is -- he helps out Bomb-Bomb by turning Florida Dems against their
own party, helps Bomb-Bomb get the opponent he wants, gets to look like
he's being fiscally responsible (by refusing to pay for a new primary)
and magnanimous when in actuality he's just being calculating.

[Cassandra]

14. Tweety definitely made himself useful...

by slapping that SOB upside the head. Sanctimonious shit Crist!

[Birthmark]

13. Crist is right on this issue.

The delegates should be seated. There is simply no valid reason NOT to seat them. Not seating them is disenfranchising 1.75 million Democratic voters in a swing state.

[Cassandra]

16. And the voters who didn't vote because they were told...

it wouldn't count? They're just shit out of luck?

[TahitiNut]

17. I guess so. Is there ANY more room under the bus??

:puke:

[Birthmark]

22. There should be plenty of room

...since the stay home FL voter is almost wholly a creature of imagination. I'm sure there were one or two, but certainly not many.

[TahitiNut]

24. Turnout statistics not withstanding, huh?

In both Michigan and Florida, the number voting in the Democratic primaries were HUGELY down ... while in 24 of 27 other Democratic state primaries the turnout was HUGELY increased.

What have YOU been smoking?? :eyes:

[Birthmark]

25. That is complete and utter nonsense.

Turnout in the 2008 FL Primary was 133% (750,000 in '04 to 1,754,000 in '08) of the 2004 turnout!! I don't know where you're getting your info, but you should probably change your source.

[TahitiNut]

26. Good catch. That'll teach me to listen to DNC spokespersons on MSCNNBC, I guess.

I've heard that claim twice in the last two days in discussions regarding the Michigan and Florida delegate question. I have no idea, at this point, what they higher/lower is being compared against. Michigan was a caucus state in 2004. (I HATE it when I get spun by some glib "spokesperson.")

However ...

I find this little blurb ...

From January 3, the day of the Iowa caucuses, to February 5, i.e. Super Tuesday, when more than 20 states held nominating contests, more than 19.1 million Americans cast a ballot in a Democratic primary (or caucused as a Democrat), compared with just 13.1 million on the Republican side, a U.S. News analysis has found.*

On a state-by-state basis, Democrats had higher turnouts than Republicans in 19 out of 25 states. The six outliers that tilted Republican were Arizona (Sen. John McCain's home turf), Utah (a pro-Romney Mormon stronghold), Michigan (where Rep. Denis Kucinich was the sole Democrat to campaign), Florida (where no Democrats campaigned), Alabama, and Alaska.

Even in Georgia, a state President George W. Bush won in 2004 by 17 percent, Democratic voters outnumbered Republicans by nearly 100,000.

http://www.usnews.com/articles/news/campaign-2008/2008/02/28/high-democratic-turnout-sends-a-mixed-signal-for-november.html

I also find an up-to-date summary of all the primaries and caucuses so far in 2008 at http://elections.gmu.edu/Voter_Turnout_2008_Primaries.htm

They list the combined turnout rate (for states with primaries) as ...
Jan. 8 New Hampshire Primary 52.5%
Jan. 15 Michigan Primary 20.2%
Jan. 26 South Carolina Primary 30.4%
Jan. 29 Florida Primary 33.8%
Feb. 5 Alabama Primary 31.7%
Feb. 5 Arizona Primary 23.7%
Feb. 5 Arkansas Primary 26.0%
Feb. 5 California Primary 40.0%
Feb. 5 Connecticut Primary 19.8%
Feb. 5 Delaware Primary 23.7%
Feb. 5 Georgia Primary 32.7%
Feb. 5 Illinois Primary 32.6%
Feb. 5 Massachusetts Primary 38.7%
Feb. 5 Missouri Primary 32.6%
Feb. 5 New Jersey Primary 30.2%
Feb. 5 New York Primary 18.8%
Feb. 5 Oklahoma Primary 28.7%
Feb. 5 Tennessee Primary 26.4%
Feb. 5 Utah Primary 23.7%

... and so on.

It sure seems to me that turnout in Michigan and Florida was VERY Republican biased ... since the Republicans actually campaigned and more than McCain and Hucklebee were on the ballot.

It's my firm opinion that the Democratic party insiders (state and national) FUBARed Michigan and Florida and almost irrevocably disenfranchised the voters. Some acts can't be undone - bells can't be unrung. The closest thing to a "fair" reenfranchisement would be an open primary AND serious campaigning by the major candidates. (Michigan, with the highest unemployment rate in the country could use the campaign MONEY.)

As it sits, it's a one-finger-salute and a "fuck you!" to the voters of Michigan and Florida - none of whom had any direct say in the insider political games that were played.

I find it fascinating that the GOP and the DLC (again!) find themselves cooperating to fuck the voters.

Granholm is DLC. Crist is GOP. Nelson is DLC. Stabenow is DLC.

[Stinky The Clown]

29. I agree with your closing paragraphs.

The party screwed up big time and there is really no good solution.

This is so bad it **could** cost us the election. I would bet damned near anything that the media already have the story lines written to show how evil and undemocratic the Democrats are.

[Birthmark]

18. There is no evidence that indicates that happened.

None. It is a made up talking point without any support.

[Stinky The Clown]

19. That's my view as well, but the fact is, there are two **very** credible sides to this argument

And the solution will require the wisdom of Solomon. If we seat them, the Obama tribe will scream like stuck pigs. If we don't seat them, the Clinton tribe will scream like stuck pigs. If we have a do-over and Obama wins, the Clinton tribe will scream like stuck pigs. If we have a do-over and Clinton wins, the Obama tribe will scream like stuck pigs.

I think the party fucked up on this one, to be honest.

[Birthmark]

20. Then I'll help out.

I ain't Solomon, but here goes:

50% of FL's delegates get seated and we move the hell on with actual issues. (No, I don't like it, but that's what compromise is all about.)

All in favor say, "Aye!"

"AYE!"

[Hamlette]

15. He screwed it up by letting them set it early, now he complains? Get out! No do overs.

[Stinky The Clown]

21. Apart from the strategery issues here, what about the hypocrisy?

The governor of FLORIDA talking about disenfranchised voters?

Kiss my gnarly ass.

[Buzz Clik]

23. I heard his interview on NPR this afternoon. Bizarre.

He used "disenfranchised" at least a dozen times. He told Siegel another dozen times that his preference was simply seating the delegates with no further action. And, oh yeah, he ain't payin for nuttin.

He claimed to be representing his state and his constituents, as their constitution deemed he must. So ... he was clearly representing the Republicans (who want Hillary to run against McCain) and the Hillary Dems (who want Hillary, who just happened to win the uncontested primary). Was he representing anyone else? Like ... the Democrats who feel that the rules should be followed? Of course not.

Great politicians want that which is best for all, even if the decision may be unpopular. Typical politicians represent only those who will vote for them. Poor politicians have weakly hidden agendas and assume that everyone is an idiot.

Nice try Charlie.

[dothan29]

27. lol

Ol Crist should be a democrat being hes soo obviously GAY

[fascisthunter]

28. wow

:wtf: