Hey lurking freepers! Still deny the existence of global warming?

[Initech]

Then I have a challenge for you: Fly out to Santa Ana, California (airport code: SNA). Once you're here, take a road trip out to Palm Springs, California via CA-60. It's a good 2 1/2 - 3 hr drive depending on the traffic. Once you get past Riverside, CA heading out toward the San Bernardino county line and the merger with I-10, you will literally see a line that divides the smog of the city with the clean air of the desert. If you still do not acknowledge that this is a problem after seeing this relatively disgusting sight, there is no hope for you.

[Muttocracy]

1. I think you're confusing smog and global climate change?

Both human influenced phenomena involving gases but not the same thing.

[Initech]

9. Hey, bad gas is one thing...

But all that smog is what's killing the atmosphere. You can see it first hand by taking that drive out to Palm Springs.

[Muttocracy]

29. maybe you're trying to make a joke but it's clear you don't understand atmospheric chemistry/physics

[genie_weenie]

2. The question regarding climate change is

who much does human behavior effect the globe?

I think, the Sun plays a bigger role in the climate change than is admitted.

However, it does give me pause that those who fervently deny and ridicule the idea of global warming also decry evolution as a theory.

Climate change is not proved science to me.

[Birthmark]

4. What evidence is there that the sun...

...plays any role in the current warming. The Sun hasn't varied appreciably in the last several decades...when the temperature has gone up the most. So, no, it's not the Sun.

The only thing really at issue is the sensitivity of the climate to the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.

And we are responsible for virtually the entire rise in CO2.

[genie_weenie]

6. Sunspot cycle

http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast22jul99_1.htm">Nasa and http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~soper/Sun/cycle.html">others have documented the Sunspot cycle. The Sun's magnetic field, the earth's position around the sun, the travel of the earth through the universe all seem more likely a reason for observed climate change. Please also http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/070.htm">read about the http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/11/1130_051130_ice_age.html">mini-ice age which occurred between http://eobglossary.gsfc.nasa.gov/Library/glossary.php3?xref=Little%20Ice%20Age">1550 - 1850.

[Birthmark]

7. There is no doubt that sunspots exist.

Nor is there any doubt that sunspots influence weather and possibly climate. But
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/09/the-trouble-with-sunspots/

The Little Ice Age applied to the Northern Hemisphere only and was probably a variation of less than 1C.

The "new ice age" hypothesis has been rejected at this time, though your article states that even that would be a result of GW.

The other factors you list have been ruled out since they can't explain the current warming, though doubtless they play a role in Earth's climate over long time periods.

[girl gone mad]

15. I took astronomy from one of the leading solar..

researchers in the country. He headed several multi-million dollar studies on this topic, and all led to the conclusion that the sun's effect on our weather over the past two decades has been minimal.

[genie_weenie]

18. It seems there is disagreement.

"Our results imply that, over the past century, climate change due to human influences must far outweigh the effects of changes in the Sun's brightness," said http://www.livescience.com/environment/060913_sun_warming.html">study co-author Tom Wigley of the National Center for Atmospheric Research.

or

Increased output from the Sun might be to blame for 10 to 30 percent of global warming that has been measured in the past 20 years, http://www.livescience.com/environment/050930_sun_effect.html">according to a new report. Increased emissions of carbon dioxide and other heat-trapping gases still play a role, the scientists say.

And my original position is we don't know how much human interfence affects the climate (in terms of global warming).

[Swamp Rat]

16. "Climate change is not proved science to me." - Pleistocene geologists disagree

Climatology = a branch of science that studies eons of climate change. Maybe you can prove it to yourself through a little research of your own.

During the last 2 billion years the Earth's climate has alternated between very hot and very cold. That is a fact. Not only is it a fact, but many scientists have studied that fact for a very long time, and published their findings in numerous peer-reviewed journals.

I suggest you begin with JSTOR.

[genie_weenie]

17. Perhaps I should be more clear

Climate change caused by humans is not proved science. I responding to the posts' initial supposition. Of course the climate has changed in the 4 billion years the planet has existed. You are correct. That is one of the reason I do not accept that humans are responsible for the current warming trend.

[Swamp Rat]

23. Ah, ok.

Big difference. :D

"I do not accept that humans are responsible for the current warming trend." - Yes, we lack data to prove definitively otherwise.

We may have an impact on the environment, but how much? Is it significant enough to cause 'irreresable damage' to global systems? We humans do produce pollution, but so far we can only effectivly assess what it does to our immediate surroundings, i.e. tainted water, smog, depleted uranium. An effort to mitigate these types of problems should be our focus at this time.

[Ordr]

21. "Climate change is not proved science to me."

Seconded.

[Swamp Rat]

24. Really?

Different branches of science have studied climate change for a very long time. Maybe you should read a geology text book sometime.

[Ordr]

25. Ugh.

I made the same mistake as the person I quoted and didn't include that I questioned human-caused climate change.
I certainly believe in geological climate change since it would be kinda hard to exist if we still had some of the prehistoric climates ;).

[Swamp Rat]

26. LOL!

:D No problem. :hi:

[Possumpoint]

3. Apples and Oranges

What does smog have to do with global warming? I'm old enough to remember the brown air of the late 1950's through early 60's prior to smog controls being put on cars in the Eastern areas of the United States. This is long before global warming became an issue.

Get your thought processes in order and make a case for global warming, not atmospheric inversions. I can't help if the air in California sucks in many areas.

[Winterblues]

28. What do you think happens to all those pollutants then

We live in a sealed environment. When we dump carbons and other pollutants into our atmosphere where do you think that stuff goes? It can't just dissappear. We have been pumping this stuff out steadily now for about a hundred years and it does acumulate and it just gets worse. I am sure during the first fifty years it wasn't all that noticable but as the acumulation grows and grows it definitely becomes more noticable to any that care to observe. It is IMO ridiculous to say man has no consequence in this world.

[Ian David]

5. I say we don't do anything about Global Warming until after Florida sinks. n/t

[flvegan]

8. Great idea.

We Florida progressives thank you for your oh-so-delightful and inspired "thought".

[Initech]

10. I like this idea.

[leftofthedial]

11. it is snowing here in -insert random version of Bumfuck here-

so much for global warming

[MedleyMisty]

12. Please tell me that's missing a sarcasm tag?

[leftofthedial]

13. of course. I didn't think it would need one

that's the lame-ass wingnut line that just makes my jaw drop.

if you find the rare one that can be educated, when you get to the part about polar melting possibly triggering an ice age, they really start to melt down.

[1]

14. that is amazingly scientific...

tell me, it hurts when i do this *raises arm*.

what should i do?

[bryant69]

19. I do acknowledge global warming

But the existence of air pollution doesn't prove the existence of global warming.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Mugu]

20. It's better to be silent and thought a fool... n/t

[ReformedChris]

22. I remember America's Greatest Astronaut, John Young, making an interesting comment about cities..

That you can literally see a different polluted atmosphere over different cities and industrial areas from Low Earth Orbit. We all see our world changing for the worse, but the Denier Crowd seem to be so attached to the status quo they exist in that they can't stand to see change.

[Dr. Strange]

27. You want them to drive for 2-3 hours?

Are you sure YOU believe in global warming?

[ConservativeGuy]

30. ok, i'll bite

Watch the documentary, 'The great Global Warming Swindle.


'http://youtube.com/watch?v=xzSzItt6h-s


Channel 4 in Britain had this last year. It is well made and reasonable. Should at least give pause.


BTW... I'm a long time lurker. I truly enjoy coming to DU, and it's a great source of balancing opinion for me. My views would be mostly considered by you here to be "conservative", but i"m a free thinker, and would enjoy to discuss any matter with any of you who wish to do so.

Please don't ban me. I've been honest and fully disclosed who I am.

You may not agree with me, but I would hope we are not afraid of a little give-and-take once in a while. Echo chambers (on both sides) are not healthy.

CG