This will comfort you or scare the shit out of you, depending on your take.

[Tyler Durden]

There was a post in VIDEO regarding the average IQ of the American Public, and balancing smart people versus less intelligent. The problem was that the poster was defining the MEAN, not the average.

The AVERAGE IQ of the American Public from the basic IQ tests is always 100 because that's the way it's defined. The absolutely terrifying part of this (to me at least) is that for anyone scoring on the High Side, there are people scoring on the Low Side balancing them out. Here's how this works:

If you define x as the number of persons in a sample below the line (defined as LoIQ) needed to balance out a person of High IQ (defined as HiIQ), the formula is very simple, about 6th grade Algebra. It looks like this:

100=(HiIQ+(x*LoIQ))/(x+1)

If you want the number of persons needed to balance a given HiIQ, sub in the LoIQ and solve for x. This also works for LoIQ and x as long as you sub in a least 2 of the 3 variables.

So if Albert Einstein had a 150 IQ, using the formula you'd need 5 persons with a 90 to balance him out. This doesn't get really scary until you sub in say, Marilyn Vos Savant who is documented at IQ=200. Using the same LoIQ, you'd need 85.7 people with a 90 to balance her, or say in even numbers of 10 persons with IQ=90.

If you're curious about me, you would need 10 persons with IQ=93.3. Do the math.

I'm on the "scares the living shit out of me" side if you're curious about that.

[Demit]

1. The thing I find curious about you is your compulsion to tell us your IQ.

[Tyler Durden]

2. Whatever.

Boring. A Captial Crime in my book.

Next?

[spoony]

15. Yes, and a rather circuitous way to do so, isn't it?

[Tyler Durden]

16. If you don't care, why do the math?

Sort of a self-defining moment for both of you, wouldn't you say?

[spoony]

19. You vastly overestimate your impact

Simple maths, no big deal. I do find it funny that you're squatting on this little ego-trip thread like an eagle, though.

[Tyler Durden]

24. Are you looking in a mirror perhaps?

Your mind reading is a little faulty though.

I suppose I shouldn't try and second guess your motives anymore than you should try and second guess mine.

I overestimate nothing. My IQ and $1 buys me a coffee at Starbuck's. Some of the most boring people I ever met were smart or smarter than me. The MENSA chapter I belonged to consisted largely of people who got off on things like playing chess in their heads without a board; I'd hoped to find some smart women and have sex. That wasn't in the cards.

If IQ translated into money, power, or influence, I sure wouldn't be doing what I am right now.

[Mugu]

31. If you can get a cup of coffee at Starbucks for $1,

you are clearly smarter than I.

Regards, Mugu

Edit: I=me, written proof of my intelligence.

[Tyler Durden]

35. I thought that's what they were trying to compete with McShit.

At least I thought so...I have been wrong on numerous occasions.

[Mugu]

38. To be honest, I have never set foot in a Starbucks.

I don't even know where one is located around here. Your post was just an opportunity for me to be a smart-ass.

Regards, Mugu

[Tyler Durden]

42. You haven't missed a thing.

The only reason to go in one is Caffeine withdrawal, and no other coffee shop in total collapse range.

[EmilyAnne]

63. You just name dropped Mensa. That's funny.

[Tyler Durden]

70. Dry up and blow away.

If I was TRYING to impress you, I would tell you I got in with the least testing they give.

[Demit]

29. I didn't bother to do the math. I could draw the inference from the info you gave above.

[BoneDaddy]

52. Look at me everyone

Look at me, I am sooooo smart...sigh.

[Tyler Durden]

59. Supid is as stupid does, Forest.

Look at me, I am soooooo Sarcastic.

[BoneDaddy]

66. Look around

Edited for the awareness that this is a waste of my time.

[Tyler Durden]

71. Then why post again?

Non Sequitur

[Bonobo]

3. Funny, your intelligence doesn't come across in your posts.

I have seen no evidence of such a vaunted intelligence.

[JuniperLea]

80. Hmmm... that may just be the most self-deprecating post ever! eom

[spag68]

4. IQ

Why will one bush balance out many above 100 IQs, and how about the whole family?

[Tyler Durden]

14. An even SCARIER though is if he's running around 86...

Then how badly does he skew the average? Maybe some of those scoring above the line wouldn't if only he was smarter.

[DrDan]

5. perhaps you should fear those with higher IQs more than those with lower IQs

100 is an artificial mathematical measure - one that indicates the middle-of-the pack. There has to be a middle, there have to be some above, there have to be some below. Not sure why you fear those below, or worry that there are some below.

and for Einstein's case, perhaps there are 50 at an IQ of around 99. Does that sound less threatening.

[Tyler Durden]

8. Oh I don't FEAR them....

I fear the fact that they can drive while talking on a cell phone.

And vote.

50 at 99 is marginally less frightening. And as you say, there is some truth in fearing those on the high side as well: Vos Savant is said to have been a visitor at the Reagan and Bush I White House.

[Ordr]

6. What?

So x number of people of a lower IQ are needed to match the abilities of 1 person of a high IQ?
What abilities? Mathematical? Cognitive? Musical?
If 1 Einstein with an IQ of 150 discovers e=mc^2, 5 people, each with an IQ of 90, working together, will have the intelligence ability to discover the same thing?

I absolutely disagree with this.

[Tyler Durden]

9. It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing.

It's just the way the IQ tests are scored.

On the other hand, there are Savants with musical abilities that would never pass a driving exam.

It's all a matter of degrees.

[0007]

13. Good point!! Absolutely

[Stinky The Clown]

7. After reading this thread, were I you .......

.... I would be considering a general 'fuck you' post.

But I'm not you.

Hopefully that thought structure will fly over some people's heads and they'll think I'm saying fuck you to you.

[Tyler Durden]

11. Too cool.

No other comment is needed!

[JuniperLea]

79. Good to see SOMEONE gets it...

Jeez... morans!

[leftofthedial]

10. that is scary

and explains much about the state of Amurka

[Tyler Durden]

12. Now THAT is my point.

How many of those "I'd have a beer with BUSH" are scoring below the line, and how can we convince them to sit out a couple of elections?

[leftofthedial]

18. one of my favorite quotes ever is probably not accurate

"half of all Americans are of below average intelligence."


it should say "mean," but that's not as funny.

[Tyler Durden]

21. Sometimes humor trumps accuracy.

You have to laugh at it sometimes. Dispels the fear.

[leftofthedial]

23. that's why I walk around cackling like a laugh track

much of the time.

lately I feel like the show has been canceled and nothing is left but the laugh track.

[Tyler Durden]

27. Now THAT is an excellent metaphor.

Ever wonder if they're laughing at you? That thought troubles me from time to time.

[JuniperLea]

82. That's easier for 49% of the population to understand...

I'm series! :silly:

[Indenturedebtor]

22. IQ is only one measurement of intelligence

A helpful guide to raw problem solving ability... but I think everyone here has known some rather intelligent people who were total dumbasses. I'm not going to post my IQ here, but suffice to say that I'm not feeling defensive here.

How about if I just put it this way: one of my very close friends is 32 years old. He went through all of the trouble of joining mensa. He has an ivy league undergrad degree, and 2 graduate degrees. He lives in his mothers' basement. He votes Republican.

IQ does not make a person intelligent. It simply measures processing power. You can put the worlds most advanced processor into a lime jello mold, and you're not going to get a super computer.

No offense but usually when people talk about their IQ, it's a substitute for talking about achievement. I've known a lot of average people who are pretty fuckin smart when it comes to anything that matters. Yes including voting. And I've seen quite a bit of the opposite as well. You think Alan Greenspan is a moron? How does he vote?

The problem is more what people chose to do with whatever intellect they have. 90 IQ is more than enough to make a carefully considered political decision. People just don't bother to do so. They chose to use their brains to look up Britney Spears crotch shots on the internet instead.

[Tyler Durden]

25. I don't disagree for a moment.

Although sometimes it would be nice to think that the voting/driving/etcetera population had a little more "horsepower," so to speak.

I would say the ability to think and act "multiplexually" (to steal a phrase) would be of much more value.

[Raejeanowl]

67. Agreed

You can be a prodigy but a total loser. You can be IQ-challenged yet a college grad and millionaire.

People have lives, advantages and disadvantages, resources and character and motivations (or lack thereof).

It's amazing the spectrum of what can or cannot be achieved or the quality of the life lived, given all of the variables.

[JuniperLea]

81. I have always thought in those terms...

About Bush's 23% base.

[MadAndy]

17. I dont think your analysis is correct. The distribution of intelligence is

a bell shaped curve (aka a gaussian distribution). For every person with above avg intelligence there is an equal # of people with below avg intelligence. For example, if there are 100 people with and IQ of 80 there is an equal # with an IQ of 120.

[Jim__]

20. IQ tests are calibrated to have an approximate normal distribution.

That means that for every Einstein with an IQ of 150, there is a person with an IQ of 50. The person with a 50 IQ is essentially retarded. For every 10 people with an IQ of 90, there are 10 people with an IQ of 110. Most people will score 100.

I'm not sure what distinction you're making with respect to the MEAN and the Average, and you didn't link to the post you're referring to, so, I couldn't check. Usually, the Mean and the Average are the same thing.

It is a recognized fact that IQ has problems accurately measuring people at the extremes (let's call that 200 and/or 0).

[Tyler Durden]

26. Math.

The ARITHMETIC MEAN is the average. The Middle value is the MEDIAN. To demonstrate my own lack of cognition at times, The person using MEAN in the other post really meant MEDIAN and I continued with the error.

Nobody's perfect, least of all me.

[proud2BlibKansan]

28. Life is a bell curve

We are always going to have some in the middle and about the same number at both extremes. And you can choose to let that freak you out. Or not.

[Tyler Durden]

30. Guess it sounds elitest....

I would simply like to get some real yahoos under a little closer scrutiny. Life would be safer.

Hey, as long as we're talking bell curves, think about the term "normal" as relates to curves.

I love to define that to someone who's preaching to me about what's "normal" and what isn't.

[ScreamingMeemie]

69. No, it doesn't sound elitist. It is elitist.

And one can be book smart and lack common sense as we have seen quite a bit of.

I don't mean this as a slam on you Tyler, I just find IQ and intelligence talk to be the stomping ground of the high horse calvalry.

[JuniperLea]

85. How do you feel about men who brag about their sporting abilities?

Not everyone is athletic either.

[ScreamingMeemie]

87. Nobody likes a braggart.

:hi:

I answered as honestly as I can.

[JuniperLea]

88. I dunno...

How many guys would be smacking his ass in appreciation and congratulations if he'd won a wrestling trophy?

:shrug:

[ScreamingMeemie]

89. True, but you asked how I felt. I guess that makes me nobody.

[Evoman]

32. So?

There are literally millions of people with mental disabilities that more than account for all you genuises.

Oh yeah...and IQ is bullshit anyways. According to some early tests IQ tests I did, I have an IQ of about 80. I have a Master's degree in Biology. Man, universities have such low standards :eyes:

[Marr]

56. Eighty!

I love it. If that measurement had been accurate, you wouldn't have been able to locate the "post message" button, much less type the actual post or get a Master's.

I'm with you on IQ tests. I doubt their accuracy, and I think there are simply too many possible biases to work around reliably. There are too many ways for a bright person to come out with a dim label.

[Evoman]

62. Yeah..part of the reason is that I was an immigrant.

Neither of my parents spoke English (my dad did a little, but not well). I basically taught myself to read in English before I hit kindergarten. And they still thought I was low IQ because of their dumbass tests (I didn't understand what I was doing), and the fact that I was really shy and couldn't read well out loud (again, it was a language thing...I read very well inside my head).

IQ is bullshit, if only because the people writing and interpreting the test are human. Not only that, but the whole premise of the OP is totally wrong...he is balancing out the genuises with 5 to 10 people of slightly low IQ when the fact of the matter is, there are plenty of very low IQ people balancing them out.

I find this whole thread not worthy of anybody with an IQ of over 0.

[LanternWaste]

33. Some people are more intelligent than I am.

Some people are more intelligent than I am. Some people are less intelligent than I am. I find neither comfort nor apprehension in that...

That being said, the nicest people I know are those with the lowest IQs (mildly to heavily retarded). Just happy, happy people to be around. Makes me think that I shouldn't think too much...

[Sugar Smack]

34. I like pink.

:D

[Tyler Durden]

36. I like to watch.

Got anything to watch?

BAD TYLER! :spank:

[Sugar Smack]

37. *lol*- Hey, this is from my sketchbook a few years ago-

I couldn't resist!



:rofl:

[Tyler Durden]

41. I'm sending that to my old MENSA chapter!

GOD they were dense. All mindgames, no sex; which is what I joined for. Trying for a "Dweebs in Love" sort of thing. Smart women are my "thing." They still won't admit I quit.

Damned cool work.

[JBoy]

39. Reminds me of one of George Carlin's lines:

"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that."

[madokie]

40. talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill

[Tyler Durden]

43. I thought that's what GD was FOR.

"GD: it's not just for rational discussion. Or was it ever? You decide!"

[natrat]

44. who fucking cares what your iq is

[Tyler Durden]

49. Then how dumb are you for fucking REPLYING?

"Stupid is as stupid does."
-Forest Gump

[Johonny]

45. If IQ measured intelligence it might be interesting

If intelligence could be quantified as a scalable, unchangeable single number then I might be interested, but all evidence points to a no on this.

[Tyler Durden]

50. I don't say you're wrong.

But as an imperfect sort of "Mental Horsepower" scale, it has some correlation to reality.

My whole point is that I wish people were voting, acting, and living SMARTER, and that they are trying their best to be unintelligent lemmings scares me to death.

[Johonny]

65. there is no proof

If IQ has no correlation and it's correlation to most basic human social structures is basically nil then I don't get your point.

To steal from Stephen Jay Gould
Intelligence, in your formulation, must be depictable as a single number, capable of ranking people in linear order, genetically based and effectively immutable. It isn't.

About the best thing IQ tests tell you is if a person has a potential learning disability.

[Tyler Durden]

72. Actually it measures after the fact.

In theory, if you are say, 16 and function at the minimum level a 16 year old should, your IQ is 100. Higher and lower for higher and lower performance.

To be honest I have forgotten the age baseline they originally used. I think it was 16, but I'm not certain.

[SteelPenguin]

46. I'm with you on this

I find it interesting that some people get so defensive about the vanity line in your penultimate sentence, that they miss the point the entire post. That's one thing I've never understood is people getting churlish and defensive about either theirs, or someone else's, IQ or penis size. It's curious.

Regardless, I agree with being scared about these numbers. I agree with many of the other points up post. IQ isn't the only measure of intelligence, nor does it imply infallibility. EQ is also an interesting measure, but I'm not sure if that has really been perfected. I find that success in life is much easier obtained by those who have charisma and confidence, rather than outright intelligence or problem solving ability.

When we speak of average intelligence, what we seem to generally be referring to is not only problem solving ability, but also to general knowledge. Both are extremely important to a person who is expected to make rational decisions about anything from voting, to talking on their cellphone while driving. I've had conversations with people, who I considered friends until their republican conservative nature , which were aggravating to the point of absurdity. One simply couldn't understand the concept of a hypothetical. We were talking about her planning her wedding and I asked her "What would you do if you could spend 100 grand on your wedding?" and she said "I don't have 100 grand." To which I replied, "Yes, but hypothetically if you had 100 grand, what would you do?" To which she replied, "But I don't." A half hour conversation followed and at the end she still didn't grasp the concept or the ability to have a hypothetical. Even more bizarre was the fact that she held a civil engineering degree.

My point is that I agree that for every person of high IQ, is 5, 10, or more people with lower IQ's and while it's not a perfect standard of measurement, the number of people out there unable apparently to distinguish a hypothetical, or even use basic reason or logic is petrifyingly scary. I remember back to the "Fuzzy Math" shouts of the 2000 election and having to repeated pull my jaw off the floor.

It took me a long time to understand how people couldn't see through the lies and idiocy. Then I talked to an engineer who couldn't comprehend a hypothetical topic. To claim I'm not afraid of a person like that would be a lie.

[supernova]

47. I find it scary that you

are so exercised about people with average or below a certain threshold of intelligence having a voting franchise.

Let's take Europe, for example.

They are politically more liberal than the US, yes? They vote for and institute policies that are on the left side of the political spectrum, and far more advantageous to their citizens, far more often than we do.

Why is that?

There is no reason to suggest that, say, the Spanish or the French are smarter as groups (nations) than we are. They probably have the same intelligence bell curve that we do, however you want to define "intelligence."

I don't think our lesser lights are any more stupid than theirs.

So, what's going on here? Why the difference in lifestyle, policies, and political outcomes?

We already know that appeals to logic, research, facts and data don't work with this crowd. Emotion does. And experience.

I think it is because the Europeans have some recent, real - life memories about what extreme rightist policies do to a nation. About how bad it is to have a cult of personality develop around a leader.

We do not. Right now, because of the dominance of the Right, we are a bunch of under fives who got into the kitchen matches.

It is up to those of us who are open to logic and research to use that information in ways the people at the lower end of the bell curve can understand and appreciate. These folks are not stupid; they are smart enough to live. They're just consumed with their daily life.

I"m not saying talk down to them. I'm not saying to come off sounding superior.

I am saying we have to talk about our vision, our philosophy and way of being in the world in terms of values, and traditions. They only vote for Repubs because the last generation or so, it's the Repubs who have sounded like they have all the answers (while being very far from the real truth.)

It's up to us to have the better communications this time around.

[Tyler Durden]

55. Part of IQ as it is measured here is education.

Mostly EARLY education. The "push" behind making intelligent and meaningful life choices is made up of experience, training, and horsepower.

We in this country have learned somehow to revel in our inner "Gilligan," or "Al and Peg Bundy," as if showing intelligence in our actions and daily lives was somehow unattractive. The number of epithets for intelligent young people far outnumber those for non-intelligent. In fact in some circles, the appearance of "brains" is to be avoided at all costs for a myriad of reasons.

Playboy magazine put forth in an article years ago that "DUH" was probably the best pickup line in existence. And from "Revenge of the Nerds" to "Weird Science," the "dweeb" is universally reviled until the very last reel, where magically they are transformed to a desirable commodity, usually NOT for their "intelligence."

Europe learned this centuries ago, and has valued their scholars, not put their heads in high school toilets.

The Right is taking advantage of this, by making the Left synonymous with over education and the "ivory tower," where in the past this was far from the truth with the left being the champion of the slave and the serf. And what has this wrought for us?

Bush.

You would think the land of "American Ingenuity" could have come up with something better.

[knitter4democracy]

48. What's so scary?

IQ is meaningless. The tests are written to privilege upper middle class white kids and do. I've taken a test, and the only reason I did as well on it as I did was that I was our Quiz Bowl team's captain at the time and knew all the "historical trivia" questions from going to practice every day before school and watching Jeopardy every night to prep for the meets.

People with so-called low IQs don't scare me, either. Not at all. Most of them are hardworking people just trying to survive. Their brains work differently than the test measures, as we are finding out more and more about various intelligences and various ways different brains process information and experiences.

Oh, and here's one thing I learned in high school: there will always be someone smarter and better than you. It's just life.

[librechik]

51. I got bashed in the head recently so not sure what you mean

too much math

used to be 140

sigh

then had children

then got bashed in head

I think I'm a balancer now

[kineneb]

53. work retail, meet all those people...

aaaggghh.

I used to be more charitable towards the masses, until I had a job working around shoppers (farmers market). I then discovered that there lots of really dense people out there. They may have had book learning, but they couldn't apply it to the real world. Total disconnect.

To paraphrase Thoreau: The mass of men lead lives of quiet stupidity.

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[Marr]

57. "The mass of men lead lives of quiet stupidity."

That is so amazingly amazing, I think I would like to steal it.

[kineneb]

58. you may

the original is "The mass of men lead lives of quiet desperation."

which rather assumes they even pay enough attention to feel desperation... before switching on the TV...

[Warren DeMontague]

60. The stupid ones, to me, weren't as bad as the ones who were outright assholes.

The people whose whole day seemed to hinge on making life difficult for unfortunate retail workers they might encounter.

Of course, plenty of people are dumb AND mean.

[European Socialist]

54. Quarterbacks with the strongest arms should be the ...

most successful, but they are often not. High IQ is the same way--Just look at`all the smart people in high places that let Chimpco ruin our country.

[Warren DeMontague]

61. There are a lot of dumbshits on this planet. In other news, water is wet. nt

[Cronus Protagonist]

64. I have a super-super high IQ

I have multiple personality disorder and one of my personalities has an IQ of 73.4 (all he thinks about is sex, sex, sex), two have the same IQ as each other, which is why I think they're twins, but shhhhh don't tell them, their IQ is 149.3 each, another one has an IQ of 115 (she's always complaining about the others), and the last one, Cronus Protagonist, has an IQ of 200.

So that makes me have a cumulative IQ of 1532.5, if I can get my mind off cock long enough to add them all up.

:P

[Tyler Durden]

74. Oh, that is just TOO FUNNY!

Love it!

I'd ask to meet 73.4 but I'm a male and heterosexual.

[SmokingJacket]

68. IQ doesn't measure morality or curiosity or compassion...

so it doesn't mean much to me.

For every developmentally disabled person, you need a bunch of Phi Beta Kappas to balance them out. So what?

[Tyler Durden]

76. Actually it's the other way around.

The fact that it has to be that way says that there are that many developmentally or educationally disabled or deprived people to balance out one on the high side.

[SmokingJacket]

94. Well... this is spurious on so many levels.

The fact is, IQ measurements aren't equally accurate above and below 100; a person with a "200" IQ can't balance out a "0" IQ. Anything above 170 or 180 is probably inaccurate, for one thing. And you can't really measure very low IQ because of problems with testing and communication. Applying statistics to either extreme is really meaningless. Inasmuch as the IQ is valid at all, it is increasingly less so the further from 100 it is -- and unequally so on either side.

I say this as someone who happens to be pretty good at IQ tests, but who has never found this skill useful in the real world!

[Lex]

73. The thing that is really interesting is "EQ" which is more of an indicator

of success in life:

http://www.queendom.com/tests/access_page/index.htm?idRegTest=1121

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

75. LOL

You know, Dan Quayle was also very concerned when he found out that half of everybody was below average intelligence.

[Raejeanowl]

77. People Who Want Strangers To Know They're A Genius Frighten Me

Tom Hanks overplayed the "stupidity" of Forrest Gump. Great performance, bad depiction of a person with a 75 I.Q.

Both of my brothers are mentally challenged, as was my late maternal uncle.

My younger brother's I.Q. is 68. He is far more functional than the Gump character and has been self-supporting if not totally independent most of his life. He doesn't walk around with a dull, vacant facial expression and drone platitudes his mother taught him. You wouldn't suspect until you conversed with him for an extended time that he suffered anything worse than a probably marginal education.

He also votes; tell me he doesn't have that right. He's a registered Republican, and I rag his ass constantly, but I drive him to the polls; tell me my party loyalty should outweigh my sisterly duty.

My I.Q. is more than twice that of my brother, but he and people like him don't scare me in the least. It's what the so-called "intelligent" people (like me) get up to or waste time with that's truly terrifying.

[JuniperLea]

78. I find all this anti-intellectual blathering amusing...

If this guy had posted a picture of himself with a big macho trophy he'd won in track, or football, or soccer, or any number of physical events, there would be much grunting and self-grabbing of junk in tribute. WTF?? Not cool to be smart? Is this how we treat smart?

I thought the OP was very interesting... it proves the reason for the plethora of dim posts around here.

[NickB79]

84. Ditto. I'm amazed at all the "oooh, big IQ guy, huh?" responses

And other attacks and justifications against the OP.

A few of the posts on this thread give me flashbacks to junior high. WTF, I'd never have thought I'd see something like this on DU.

[Hekate]

90. We live in an anti-intellectual country, & while I agree that smart kids need to be nurtured...

... challenged, and encouraged as much as athletes/physically gifted, I am approaching the OP more as a discussion about the utility and meaning of IQ tests.

As for the hostile responses -- yes, that happens here.

Hekate

[Indenturedebtor]

91. Not the same thing

Trophy = accomplishment

Anyways, getting away from IQ for a moment. It is unfortunate that our society doesn't value intelligence more. However I don't think that raw intellect is the main reason that many are persecuted in school. I moved around a lot, went to a lot of different schools. Some schools I was very popular, some schools not very well liked. I don't think that the differences had so much to do with my intellect as with my interactions with the other kids. :shrug:

And I'm not at all trying to brag here but I was always quickly known to be one of the smartest kids. Meh.

I think that a lot of the "nerds" who get picked on in school are kids who are pretty unattractive and socially maladjusted. They need to excel at something so they pursue academics and a shot at "superiority" in their own ways. Sounds horrible but what can you do.

There have been more than a few studies linking high IQ with more symmetrical physical appearance (read beauty), longer life span, and physical fitness. These are just trends you understand but they're pretty damn strong correlations and pretty damn convincing. Now sure there are smart ugly people, and not too sharp pretty people; but generally good genes are good genes.

Something that no one has mentioned here yet is that IQ can change with age + or - 15 points from birth. So your upbringing, nutrition, schooling etc can give you a standard deviation of change... ie put you in a whole other category of IQ. And yes, our IQ tests are fairly culture specific, and they leave more unmeasured than they actually measure. But that doesn't mean that the test is meaningless. It is a good and valuable descriptive statistic... bleh anyways.

On a side note did you know that what made Einstein so bloody smart was that his Corpus Callosum was HUGE! That's the part of your brain that integrates information from the two hemispheres of your brain. Makes sense given his contributions to science doesn't it?

[JuniperLea]

92. Left/Right brain tests are another thrown into this mix

And hat size;)

Yes, nurture and nature play their roles without question.

I routinely got straight A's up to the mid-term, and straight fails as final grades... choosing to learn about physics on a surfboard rather than in class:) I was bored as hell. I was put in special classes in addition to my regular classes, and not told why that was so. My classmates and I were never told we had IQ's in the 98%... we thought we were dumb because we didn't have the answers all the time... spent too much time daydreaming and gazing out windows... then I joined Mensa and learned that I wasn't alone! Thankfully I saw the same patterns in my kids long before their school's neglect could do permanent harm. My oldest is a Chemical Engineer... the other two are still searching... but no one is condescending to them when they daydream... daydreaming is a very good thing.

Edited to say... yes, it really is the same thing. Some people are born with bodies that are athletically inclined... some are born with an intellectual inclination. Not all people can excel at sports... not all people can excel in all other ways.

[Hekate]

83. And yet the world goes on as it has these many ages, as Gandalf once said.There are manykinds of in-

There are many, many kinds of intelligence NOT measured in IQ tests -- musical, social, physical, and many more. IQ tests are known to be skewed toward verbal and math abilities, and skewed by culture as well. IQ test results are also skewed by educational opportunity, or the lack thereof. They don't measure ethical or moral behavior. They don't measure common sense.

The world needs all of us. We need to educate all our people broadly, and we need to assure a strong ethical foundation. We don't all have the same capacities -- I could no more write a symphony or do tool-and-die work than I could flap my arms and fly to the moon -- but those that we each have should be developed for the betterment of us all.

Good leadership is not measured in high IQ as measured on the Stanford-Binet or Catell or whatever the fad is today. It's measured in ability to persuade others, among other things that can't be measured.

Hekate

[Lydia Leftcoast]

86. The scariest combination is stupid and MEAN

Of such material are rank-and-file Klansmen and racist skinheads made.

[JuniperLea]

93. And a president I can think of...

:scared: