i have a guilty confession to make -- the spitzer thing?

[xchrom]

doesn't bug me.

people do things like this -- and he's not a ''family values'' republick party person.

so sue me.

[devilgrrl]

1. He resigned - he's out of here.... NEXT!

:popcorn:

[lonestarnot]

3. What about the money laundering?

[devilgrrl]

20. What about it?

:popcorn:

[lonestarnot]

63. I asked you first!

:popcorn: :rofl: nevermind.

[devilgrrl]

65. I had no idea money laundering was involved

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[xchrom]

4. indeed -- and it'll happen again -- NEXT.

[devilgrrl]

22. You mean the new NYS Governor?

Cool, look forward to it.

:popcorn:

[xchrom]

34. who knows -- maybe -- maybe not.

that's the thing with fucking -- it breaks out all ovr and in the most unexpected places.

[spanone]

59. no he didn't

Spitzer, his wife by his side, apologizes to family and public but does not resign

http://www.cnn.com/

[roguevalley]

95. Huffingtonpost says his wife counseled him against resigning. Maybe

she wants to kick him in the balls at the next state of the state speech.

[NightWatcher]

2. but he did prosecute some people for doing the thing he just admitted doing

therein lies the rub- pun intended

[MrCoffee]

6. That's the part that bugs the screaming hell out of me

He made his name going after prostitution rings.

[spag68]

28. not true

He made his name going after wall street crooks. on edit, personally the people he did prosecute on wall street are 1000s of times worse then any prostitute.

[ScreamingMeemie]

7. Bingo. It blows the mind. It really does.

[walldude]

9. Yeah but he supports Hillary so his hypocrisy

doesn't count.

[Seeking Serenity]

26. Don't you bring your GP:P tactics over here! (n/t)

:-)

[BuyingThyme]

11. And that's an understatement.

[xchrom]

12. and? -- such is life.

conservatives and liberals both will commit not so discreet indiscretions.

but spitzer was no enemy to me and mine -- vitter and craig were enemies seeking to legislate the hell out my life if they could.

[MrCoffee]

18. so he gets a pass? that's BS

he should get the same jail time as those he prosecuted for prostitution as AG.

[xchrom]

29. perhaps he will -- perhaps he won't.

but don't ask me to be bugged by him having relationships with -- cause i'm not.

i'm not upset that jfk fucked marilyn -- or bobby too for that matter -- i could care that fdr was playing footsie with his secratary or eisenhower.

there are few people who are perfect in the sex arena.

[MrCoffee]

33. If it was just an affair, that would be one thing

but this is engaging in the same behavior that he had people incarcerated for. That's the difference in my mind.

[xchrom]

39. i can well imagine that prosecuting led to fascination.

but whatever -- he's flawed -- as you are -- as i am.

he's done a good job -- especially prosecuting corporate crime -- and that what i really want from him.

the rest -- i'm not bugged.

[MrCoffee]

41. Fair enough

Personally, I expect a bit more from politicians.

[Elidor]

48. I'm bugged that he pissed it all away

Apparently, his stellar career wasn't worth very much to him.

[xchrom]

53. unless you travel in his personal circle -- you'll probably never know.

[Phentex]

92. Yes, we call this Newtism.

Do as I say not as I do.

Newt Gingrich

[sandnsea]

5. He prosecuted prostitution rings

People are in jail for doing exactly what he did. He's exactly the same as any one of this holier than thou republicans.

[Freddie Stubbs]

19. Did he actually prosecute Johns?

:shrug:

[sandnsea]

23. Excuse me??

I'll let you clarify.

[Freddie Stubbs]

30. Did he actually prosecute those who paid for the services, or just

those who sold the services?

[sandnsea]

32. People who participated in prostitution

They're all equally guilty. And if he didn't prosecute Johns, well then shame on him some more.

[Freddie Stubbs]

40. The penalties for selling drugs are harsher than those who purchase them

[sandnsea]

43. Because drug buyers tend to be addicts n/t

[Freddie Stubbs]

45. Perhaps those who frequent prostitutes are sex addicts

[sandnsea]

46. The chemical nature of drugs creates addiction

Completely different than the psychology of sex addiction.

[Freddie Stubbs]

58. Is addiction really the reason why the buyers receive lighter penalties?

Or is it because they are simply dealing in smaller quantities?

[sandnsea]

60. Yes, it is

Where ya been?

[Freddie Stubbs]

91. You're telling me that drug laws are based on compassion and logic?

:shrug:

[walldude]

35. Christ can you split any more hairs?

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[LostinVA]

8. Yep -- I don't expect my politicians to be beacons of morality

I just expect them to be politicians. Preferably good ones.

[xchrom]

13. bingo!! -- hi-five girlfriend.

:woohoo:

[LostinVA]

14. *high five*

[vi5]

10. No, he wasn't a family values type, BUT....

He was a law and order, zero tolerance type and when you're breaking the law that's just as bad. I've got no issue with what he did from a moral or "values" standpoint since I can see the arguments for decriminalizing prostitution to make it safer and regulated. But when you make your name on strict enforcement of the law and are shown and admitted to breaking the law then yeah I think that makes someone a hypocrite just as much as if they railed against the sex aspect of prostitution.

And he had in the past made public comments and statements regarding prostitution busts he had been involved in prosecuting.

[xchrom]

15. see -- i don't even expect law and order types to be perfect.

perfect is a fiction used to comfort -- well someone.

but i never buy it in the first place.

[ScreamingMeemie]

16. If they publicly voice it...if they speak in contempt against those they

are prosecuting, I fully expect them to be able to walk the walk. I would rather he had sex with a sheep on the lawn of the Governor's mansion than to be the most blatant of hypocrites. Sex has nothing to do with it.

[xchrom]

21. but nobody -- or enough don't -- walks the walk especially when

it comes to sex.

you're never going to have a politician -- or even a friend -- who isn't hypocritical.

when you set yourself up with those hard and fast rules -- then a fall is waiting for you.

[ScreamingMeemie]

27. But they're not walking around actively working against the crimes

they go on to commit. If he had never been AG, if he had never prosecuted those crimes perhaps. Sorry, he is not on level with my friends or even myself. I have vocally stated that I would never cheat on my husband. I never did. I have never said that killing animals for meat is wrong, therefore I can eat steak tonight.

[xchrom]

31. so you're perfect? --

well that is indeed remarkable.

[ScreamingMeemie]

37. See it as you wish. Hypocrisy is not de riguer in my life.

I expect much more of my leaders (again, keeping sex out of it). If he had never prosecuted this I would feel differently. As we tend to when it's a republican. They are all slime.

Although, on edit, I am beginning to surmise this is more of the Obama/Clinton thing rearing its head. It's a good thing I can't stand either of them.

[xchrom]

42. we should ALL be careful not to linger in the mirror too long.

hypocrisy may not be your flaw -- but i'm sure there are others.

[ScreamingMeemie]

44. Oh I have tons of fucking flaws. Hypocrisy is not one of them.

I'll be glad to list every last one of them for you. The ones that keep me up at night even.If I were to run I'm sure we all know what my "skeleton" would be. At least I didn't speak out against it.

I am only sorry I got drawn into something that was more of a Hillary vs. Obama thing than the real issue. I wish they would both go away already.

[xchrom]

49. so does that one notion -- that some how you have avoided hypocrisy

make you better than some one who doesn't?
no matter what -- this wasn't vitter or craig.

hypocrisy is a flaw -- like any flaw.

your glass house -- hypocrisy not with standing -- will shatter none the less.

so will mine.

[ScreamingMeemie]

51. The best thing is, I've got nothing left to shatter. Back to the matter at hand.

This man (political connections aside) put people behind bars for the very same "crime" he is now admitting to. End of story. And you can smash the hell out of my house anytime you wish. It is what it is.


***crime being in quotes because I don't necessarily feel it should be a crime.

[xchrom]

55. like i say -- such is life.

when you find the perfect politicia, AG or anyone else -- please let me know -- because seeing will be believing.

[ScreamingMeemie]

56. They're out there. You know it.

I, again, am only sorry I got dragged into the whole Hillary versus Obama thing. It makes me want to vomit.

I wish people could just be honest.

On edit: This spinning of our own is making us look stupid.

[Jed Dilligan]

61. I know "law 'n order" types aren't perfect

which is part of the reason why I hate them and cheer to see them exposed and punished as harshly as they would advocate someone else being punished.

[xchrom]

67. oh. brother.

:eyes:

[Jed Dilligan]

69. Hey, I can make smilies too

:freak:

[Hawkowl]

17. A STUPIDITY thing

Or he is incredibly self destructive. When a person successfully attacks corruption of some of the some of the wealthiest men on the planet, they must assume they have a bullseye on their ass and it is just a matter of time before retaliation occurs. Spitzer secured billions in fines against the NYSE and AIG insurance, and he can't keep his dick in his pants? Fool! Idiot! Moron!

He's a good man. Like many though, he self destructed.

[xchrom]

24. well keep your lantern lit -- and go and find the ''honest man''.

i think you'll be gone a while.

[KharmaTrain]

25. The True Sad Story Here...

Yes, this shows a serious character flaw...the need to be impulsive...take risks and even feel above beyond the law he worked 9 to 5 to uphold. Remember, Spitzer was the Attorney General...a lawyer and prosecutor...who knew the law and still oouldn't "keep it in his pants".

It's a shame as from what I've read, he's a good man, but another flawed politician who played with fire and got burned. His tragedy is personal...and the sex isn't the aspect here as much as it was his flirting with breaking the law. No matter if one believes if prositution is a crime or not, it's still on the books and here's a man who knew those books.

[xchrom]

36. now there is some light in your post.

and that part even has some fascination.

but that he fooled around with a prostitute -- or the mailman -- doesn't bother me -- not in the least.

he is a good man -- and like ALL good men -- he is flawed.

i would apply your same reasoning to the vast majority of people{liberal, progressive types} who keep looking for ''leadership'' that doesn't exist.

[KharmaTrain]

50. Some Call It The Alpha-Male Phenom...

And I use that term in the generic Animal Planet way...it could easily apply to women as well. It's the "rush" of power that can come with fame and the high paced, high flying lifestyle that goes along with it. It's this risk taking that many view as "leadership" but its also, as we've seen on the executive level, this macho that can lead to needless wars for profit, death and devestation. It's the "I know better" attitude that can easily turn into "I can get away with it"...and with people around who radiate to the power and influence, it's not hard to become a believer in your own press clippings.

Again, the sex isn't what matters here. Let his wife sort that out...and then the voters of New York. My hopes are his good works would and should outweigh his personal flaws...as we all have them. It's how a person overcomes those flaws that is their measure.

Cheers...

[EFerrari]

38. Let them make it a class action.

As long as we have this stupid hypocrisy on the books, stupid hypocrisy will happen.

It's not worth dumping someone as talented as he is.

Man, he was just going to move to shore up choice in NY. :grr:

[xchrom]

47. he's not goign to be the last of the kind of person liberal and progressives

like who is going to be flawed -- especially in the sex arena.


c'est la vie.

[marions ghost]

52. "It's the Stupidity, Stupid" *

stupidity, bad judgment, hypocrisy, self-delusion -it's not just for Repuglicans anymore...

This does bug me, because it indicates how little the governor valued his job and the public trust. This is just as serious an infidelity as bringing shame on his family, which isn't so great, but it is a private matter.

The Clenis was (a little bit) smarter on the scale of Dems caught in risky behavior--ie. acts they wouldn't dream of getting involved in. He also didn't make a career of prosecuting people for it.

Good grief we don't live in fair and enlightened and forgiving times--we live in Rovian, neo-con Amurka.
:shrug: :banghead:


*Edit--not calling the OP stupid--

[xchrom]

54. it never was -- not ever -- just for republicans --

stupidity, bad judgement hypocrisy and self delusion can pretty much be found in every walk of life -- and in every person.

[marions ghost]

62. true

but there are varying degrees of it. And even a little can get you in a whole world o trouble. Seems to me it takes work to overcome the various temptations out there, or else we'd all just be down in the snake pit with Bushco. Some people actually do rise above this hellish state of being tragically human. I guess I sound judgmental, but I'm the first to forgive human failings. I just don't want to support candidates who don't have more...integrity...is it? Maybe it's just that I appreciate those who have more "know your enemy" smarts.

I think being a liberal type means being just a hair smarter than the average Repug...smarter in the big picture sense, not just shrewd like a fox & calculating I mean. So it's always more disappointing to see such glaring examples of stupidity and arrogance in people calling themselves Dems. Somebody has to set a better example.

[xchrom]

66. but see -- i think he's a good man.

yes he shows himself terribly flawed here -- however he did a good job.

when it came to corporate crime -- few were his equal.

now he's dog meat? -- i wish i thought more of our heroes could stand up to such close scrutiny.

[marions ghost]

75. of course he's dog meat in Neocon America

where you been? There's always a vicious dog pack ready to tear a prey individual apart in this country. Esp if you're out there fighting corporate crime it seems advisable to keep away from the classic pitfalls.

Sure it would be nice if we lived in a more forgiving society, where ones good works outweigh negative personal issues. The pressures of these contradictory times make that even more challenging. This country is as puritanical as any Arab emirate, while at the same time even female politicians' degree of cleavage is discussed with lascivious delight. There's a crazy contradiction there.

This scenario is becoming so common--the expose and downfall of the powerful-- there needs to be some support groups for middle-aged politicians to help them find some balance in their lives. The brief ego-boost they get from engaging in risky behavior of any kind is pathetic. And it takes a toll on our social contracts with them.

The guy's a lawyer. He was AG. He vigorously prosecuted people for what he has done himself. You have to concede that's wrong. People have a hard time forgiving that kind of hypocrisy in those charged with upholding the law, as well they should. Spitzer has no credibility now. How can he supervise an AG whose job is prosecutions? What about the possibility of blackmail? Often when you see this kind of hypocritical behavior it's not far from other more subtle forms of corruption, often linked to financial crimes, exploitation and undue influence. To clean up corruption, it's a good idea to begin at home.

In this case it's the white collar crime aspect that SHOULD bother us, not to be excused and confused by "it's only sex" arguments. This is the same as any bad business dealings. It's about power.

[xchrom]

81. there's a couple of points you touch on that should become their own OPs.

and -- i strongly agree that we live in a puritanical culture.

possibly because i spent part of my young life raised in peoria and partly because i'm gay -- i know that everyone -- or at least
a significant portion of people hold sexual secrets.
it has always been thus.

and in peoria -- you certainly learn that both the low and the high meet at the prostitutes place of business -- even AGs.

that he used the services of a pro doesn't destroy his creds with me -- since that doesn't fall within my offendable senses -- what there is left of them.

he did a great job fighting corporate crime -- maybe the best ever. -- and we needed him for that.
now we will commit social cannabalism.

he's a good deal more human for his failings -- and he'll -- within degrees -- recover.

and i suppose we'll forget waiting with anticipation for the next post privacy era victim to march out our outrage and show it off for everyone.

[marions ghost]

86. Maybe if I say this more directly...you'll hear what I'm saying

Spitzer exposes the governor's office to corruption at the highest levels by this behavior, because prostitution is illegal and linked to high stakes criminal activity. It would be the same if he were say, engaged in drug buys or growing marijuana or something like that. He can no longer effectively fight corporate crime under these circumstances of complicity--never mind what you or I think about the stupidity of the laws. He cannot fight white collar crimes as long as he's engaging in them.

This is not about personal morality or sexuality so much--it is about business ethics. Corruption and white collar crime is destroying this country. It's very insidious since it's often called a victimless crime while actually there are victims all over the place. If we want to call Repugs on their tendency to white collar crime, we have to be prepared to put the same burden on Democrats.

In Spitzer's case business ethics is the bottom line.

[xchrom]

88. oh i think i heard you the first time.

nothing cryptic there.

but not many people are going to stand up to closse scrutiny of their personal lives in a post privacy world.

and post privacy world isn't going to give birth to a new and better species of humans.

and i have no problem with letting the chips fall where they may.

[claire_m]

57. Great post!!!

n/t

[redqueen]

64. Me neither. It's a personal matter between him and his wife. (nt)

[leftynyc]

79. This wasn't merely an affair

It looks like he committed a felony.

[JerseygirlCT]

68. Bugs me. Because now the people who believed in him

are likely going to be without him as governor. Because his lack of control offers all of his (and our) enemies plenty of fodder. Because this distracts from really important things we should all be focusing on. Because he knowingly broke the law - thinking himself above it, perhaps?

And all because he just couldn't keep it zipped. Idiot.

[Skittles]

71. that's it

it is disgusting no matter how they try to spin it

[xchrom]

76. but people will never keep it zipped.

sentimentality and politics don't go together as well as scotch and water.

[JerseygirlCT]

80. Why? Why not?

There's nothing sentimental about it. It's about self-control. I don't think that's asking too much in a public figure. And I think when we start excusing it, we just enable that behavior.

He was wrong. He's going to cause all sorts of pain for all sorts of people who don't deserve it. And someone it's ok because men will be men? Not ok with me.

[xchrom]

82. have we ever? -- yours' is and endless search

for humans who don't exist.

we are flawed. we fall.

if you are offended -- well what can i say -- enjoy it i suppose.

[JerseygirlCT]

93. Of course we're flawed. Which is a far cry from saying that

we're bound to screw up in every possible way, or that we're without the means to NOT screw up in a situation like this. Almost as if we can't help it, therefore we're not responsible. We're flawed, but we also have choices. He made some really bad choices. Knowingly.

I'm not enjoying any of this. I wonder where you get that idea?

[NobleCynic]

70. I laugh at any prosecutor who goes down

Especially when it's for the same thing he helped prosecute.

[MiniMe]

72. I don't care either, BUT, Spitzer's problem is that this allegation crossed state lines

making it a federal crime. Apparently the prostitute took a train from New York to Washington for the rendevouz. Spitzer knows better than that.

[barbtries]

73. it bugs me

but not nearly as much as lying a country into a war, eavesdropping on citizens behind their backs, outing a covert CIA spy, war profiteering ... etcetera. spitzer's going to lose everything, and the motherfuckers running the show are literally getting away with murder. i think murder is worse.

[lukasahero]

74. It doesn't bug you that he was a DA and broke the law?

We can debate till the cows come whether or not prostitution should be legal but right now it is illegal.

He may not be a hypocrite on the family values thing but he's a hypocrite on the legal thing.

[xchrom]

77. the oldest profession in the world is the oldest

precisely because even the most unlikely person will pay for it.

for the most part -- sex and having it and paying for it or not -- doesn't bug me.

[lukasahero]

85. It's not about sex and it's not about paying for it

It's about a former DA and a governor breaking the law. Again, we can debate all day long whether or not it should be against the law but for right now it's illegal and the people who enforce the law are expected to abide by it.

Trying to make this about sex is being deliberately obtuse.

[xchrom]

89. well when it come to sex and the law

we all fall down -- or at least many of us do.

[leftynyc]

78. No but he's a law and order person

Believe me when I tell you I haven't been this disappointed in a politician in a very long time. It was my pleasure to vote for Governor Spitzer because I felt he was a completely honorable man. That he would do something this hurtful to his family and a felony to boot - I am in the front of the line calling for his resignation.

[xchrom]

83. that's nice.

however i think you will look your whole life for a 'completely honorable' person and not find them.

[leftynyc]

87. Looks that way

I really did have faith in this one though. Maybe that was stupid of me - it still hurts.

[mondo joe]

84. I agree. He'll have to quit, IMO, but the prostitution thing itself doesn't much

bother me.

[dweller]

90. where's Larry Flynt when you need him?

Especially when it seems just about everyone here has their morally outraged puritanical holier than thou stick preened and sharpened to thwack someone's pee-pee.

:shrug:


dp

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

94. But he was an ethics candidate

looking to rescue ny from politicians who thought they were above the law..