A Theory about Why Passions are Running so High.

[Mike03]

I offer this in complete humility. But when I was reading some of the posts in GD-P, it occurred to me that maybe one reason so many of us are so emotional right now is simply because the past eight years have been so traumatic. We are suffering from some socio-political variation of post traumatic stress disorder.

Because I'm only speaking for myself, let me just write it in first person:

The past eight years have been a personal, emotional and spiritual disaster for me. At every juncture when I hoped or expected that things would reverse or improve, they simply got worse. When Bush was re-elected, I think something inside me died. As I wrote in a response to another thread, I don't think I'm anything like the person I was seven years ago.

So I'm desperate for someone who can repair the damage. I'm lucky, because in my case I think that a number of our candidates could do it. But if I heavily favored one over another, I would naturally be more than obsessed with getting that person elected. So much would seem to depend upon it.

That is why I'm trying to just distance myself from the passions here. I think I understand why we are all so emotional right now. We want our lives back. We want our country back. We want our self-respect back. We want to be healed from the horror of these past few years.

I could never be upset with someone for that, so I just am going to respect the passions here for now, and forgive myself for my own indiscretions and try to do better, and hold on until we are all out of this horrendous, catastrophic presidency.

It is coming. We just have to hang on, my friends.

[applegrove]

1. Great Post. I think you hit the nail on the head. We are all run down

by the horror. And we are desperate to have things return to normal (well near normal with adults in the WH). Spot on.

[NC_Nurse]

2. Nice post, Mike.

I think you have a good point. ;)

[WinkyDink]

3. Well-put. Yes, I think we are desperate not to lose this time.

[pocoloco]

4. If you give a fuck about America your passion is gonna be high.

2004 wasn't that long ago and many haven't forgot. Heaven help us if we nominate another dip-shit candidate!!

[sandnsea]

5. And some of us see the disaster didn't come from just Republicans n/t

[calimary]

6. I think that's EXACTLY what it is. We're all just spent - exhausted, near desperate.

I have felt, since December 12th, 2000, like a frickin' hostage in a foreign country every morning upon awakening. EVERY morning.

I've fought so long - with so little to show for it, and while I certainly don't presume to speak for everybody here, I sense that same despondency in many here - especially as we lose fight after fight to the criminals in the White House - while watching our spineless Dems offering NO opposition whatsoever.

It's been THE WORST seven-and-some years, politically, that I can ever remember, and I'm 54 so I've seen at least a few dreadful times since I started paying attention. But nothing's been this bad. This is our Third Reich. I know exactly how you feel: "When bush was reelected, I think something inside me died...I don't think I'm anything like the person I was seven years ago." How well-put! I identify with that SO much! Something inside me died, too, when he stole 2004.

I think your point is TREMENDOUSLY well-taken, and well-articulated. It's spot-on. And with no one else to turn to, and nobody getting us the results we crave so desperately, I think we wind up taking it out on each other. We're an intimate little community here - like brothers and sisters in the same extended family. And what do brothers and sisters often do? Squabble and bicker and fight amongst each other.

Thanks for this thread, Mike03! I couldn't agree more with your analysis. I think you hit the bull's eye about all this bullshit.

:yourock:

[Frances]

13. When the Supreme Court gave W

the presidency in 2000, I knew in my bones that we were headed for disaster. Even before W took office, the last thing I thought of before I went to sleep was W; the first thing I thought of when I woke up was W. My stomach was knotted up with apprehension.

My husband and my friends thought that I had gone bonkers because Bush wasn't even in office.

This year I agonized for weeks before deciding who to vote for in my primary (Obama and Hillary were the choices).

The thing is I think Obama and Hillary are very close on issues; they just have different styles.

As long as one of them is in the White House, I will be happy.

[cameozalaznick]

18. Sorry, Frances

But HRCs style is a little too close to Dubya's for my taste.

[Frances]

22. You seem like a nice person

so I'm not referring to you when I say that some of the Obama supporters sound exactly like freepers when they are talking about Bill Clinton.

Bill Clinton is not perfect, but he stood up to the Repubs when the majority of the people in the country were buying into the Reagan is God thing.

I'm a realist. If Obama is elected President, he will make some decisions that will infuriate his DU supporters. That's just the nature of the beast (politics).

[H8fascistcons]

33. Buckle your seatbelt Frances...

DU'ers are basically fighting over two candidates that are republican lite. Both are going to infuriate us because they will move oh so lightly to the left when we need a GIANT shove to the left.
We have already lost, the best two progressive candidates in the race are gone and the big corporations are laughing all the way to the bank. Personally I think Obama has a slightly better chance against the republican Fascists but I guarantee you, both Obama and Hillary are and will disappoint us, big-time regardless of who is elected, Big-time!!!

Regards..........

[Donnachaidh]

40. welcome to DU H8!

And I couldn't agree with you more. We are well and truly lost, with the overheated leftovers that are being offered. BOTH will only succeed in disappointing.

[kenfrequed]

47. I agree

As a matter of fact I think that one of the reasons people are so emotional about these two candidates is that they are, policy wise, so damned similar. Neither are enough of a hard right turn to get back on the damned road. And neither has expressed substantively different statements about policy.

Rather it is differences in absolute minutia-which countries would you talk to right away and which ones would you wait to come to you. Which percentage of people would be required to buy friggin health insurance from a private company by what date. Precisely how long you project a gradual-maybe-leaving-someday with drawl from Iraq and how much longer after you get elected are you going to talk about someday to creating an actual timetable for a partial draw down.

It really is absurd. We allowed the media to dictate the race and abandoned all the candidates that were a large step away from the corporate imperialist bs we have been saddled with.

[butterfly77]

28. I don't give a damn which one of them it is as long as its not..

McCain or some other republiCON...IF it is Hillary at least we know she will know how to kick ass...

[calimary]

43. Seems there are more than a few of us who had an experience like that.

I can remember it so clearly myself - after Selection 2000, when he made that appearance with the Democratic Speaker of the Texas legislature - in a "show of bipartisanship" and he delivered a speech. I watched that on TV and I can so clearly remember feeling the hair go up on the back of my neck. And at the time I really didn't know why. I hadn't researched it that much beyond the usual stuff that, by itself, was enough to convince me that he'd be a bad choice (besides the fact that I can't for the life of me find a single reason to vote republi-CON, election after election after election, and even while studying the issues and candidates closely).

I can so clearly remember that feeling, and remember how, in my mind, I sorta stepped aside and looked at myself and chastised myself for jumping the gun and not just waiting and see and hoping I was just overreacting. "You're only being crazy and maybe a little overblown because Gore didn't win," I told myself. Heaven forbid I behave as a poor loser, after all, 'eh? :eyes:

That feeling just came. It came all by itself. Merely by watching the TV and his speech and the tableau with all the flags behind him, and realizing THIS is what we have to live with for the next four years... that feeling just came.

I'm not exactly what you'd call famous for being a psychic. But that feeling was a plain as day and strong as hell. I'm STILL kind of amazed and taken aback by it. Just an instant gut reaction.

Of course, now we all know why.

This has been an Age of Utter Nightmares. It can't end soon enough for me.

[joeybee12]

7. True, and we recall the outcome in 2000 when Bush lost but still became Prez

I guess we can be forgiven for being paranoid!

[JoePhilly]

8. That's right .... eye on the prize!!

Kick the GOP out in 08, everything else is secondary!!

[cbayer]

9. And people are terrified that we will lose this one unless THEIR candidate

gets the nomination.

But all the recent data I've seen shows that either candidate can beat McCain and that's very good news.

Great OP.

[tabatha]

10. Yes, another Mike - Malloy said the same thing on his program.

I am watching this as much as possible just to get a sense that something may improve after the last 7-8 years.
Despair, disappointment, anger, rage, disgust, etc, etc have been the emotions.
And a tiny bit of hope for better things becomes the driftwood to hang onto, and not part with at any cost.

[lost-in-nj]

11. very true

and an eloquent post

the personnel and the political
has sucked for many, many years...


:hug:


lost

[European Socialist]

12. The loss in Nov04 was like a death in the family.

I think your post will go to the top of the heap, because it rings so true for so many. The reason I don't get too emotional over Hil vs. BO is that Kucinich and Edwards were my first two choices.

[Mike03]

14. Thank you. I appreciate your reactions to this post.

It means a lot. Things are so turbulent and upsetting now.

[caseycoon]

15. K&R EXACTLY! :o) n/t

[Laelth]

16. I hope that you are right and that we will emerge on top.

In the here and now, I have my doubts. Looks to me like the Party is self-destructing and trying its best to hand another election to the Republicans.

It makes me sad. :(

-Laelth

[tom_paine]

17. Unquestionably so.

[ClayZ]

19. Thank You!

K and R

[Olney Blue]

20. I have post-W stress disorder. Good post.

[dbonds]

36. I think I qualify for PWSD also.

Life in general has sucked these last 7 years, grew me nice big ulcer to boot.

[flyinzamboni]

21. Very Nice Post!

Best of luck to both candidates in the upcomings. Whoever is the standard bearer I will vote for.

We will need both Obama and Clinton supporters working together to make sure we win this election!

[earth mom]

23. No-I'm pissed off because the media has stolen the election from us again.

They've decided who is running and helped to push Edwards out of the race for the bullshit reason of a "historic race between and an African American and a Woman".

Puh-leeze. You mean a historic race between two DINOs who should really have R's next to their names!!! :mad:

[Hissyspit]

24. I don't have any problems with passions running high.

I have a problem with the utter tripe that is being posted on what used to be one of the brightest spots on the Internet. Now an article by a wingnut asshole can get dozens of recommendations. Sad.

Good post, though. I think the whole country has been traumatized. I will hang on. Thanks.

[SeattleGirl]

25. That's exactly how I feel,Mike.

You hit the nail exactly on the head.

[butterfly77]

26. You hit the nail on the head except for that last sentence...

MY FRIEND..

[Jed Dilligan]

27. I'm afraid the worst is yet to come

no matter who takes office.

[leftofthedial]

29. I know so many people--you, me and many of my friends and fmaily--

for whom the last 7 or 8 years have been absolute, unmitigated, relentless disaster after disaster after disaster . . .

What the hell has happened? king george can' tbe responsible for everything that's gone wrong, but SO MUCH has.

[conflictgirl]

30. Excellent post. But it's had the opposite effect on me

I absolutely share the feeling that the last 8 years have been a disaster for me on all levels, and when I expected things to improve or reverse, they got worse. Unfortunately for me it has had the opposite effect from getting me fired up about any candidate. I supported Edwards (and Kucinich, though I honestly knew he didn't have a chance - I thought maybe Edwards did) but it's very hard for me to believe that anyone left on the political field is going to make a significant change.

I understand the desperation that these past 8 years have created, and why if someone truly believed in one of the candidates, they could get very heated about trying to convince others. I've just reached a point where it's too hard for me to have hope in anyone that things will change.

[Orsino]

31. It's because our need is so great.

We need a hero badly, and are occasionally frantic in trying to make one out of the candidates we've been handed.

[Arugula Latte]

32. I think you're on to something.

I know that, personally, one of the many reasons I don't want Hillary to be the nominee is that that prospect is so depressing to so many of us; it just seems like more of the same nightmare that we can't wake up from.

[K-Check]

34. Nice break from the venom

[rox63]

35. You are exactly right

Our entire country and the world have been scarred by the trauma of the past 7+ years of Bush. We are hoping & praying for the light at the end of the tunnel, and we're terrified of getting stuck with 4 or 8 more years of hell. I have a definite favorite (Obama) in this race. But it won't be the end of the world if Clinton wins. It will still be a hell of a lot better than McCain or Bush.

I'm still hanging on to the belief that my hope won't be extinguished and my soul won't be crushed in November.

[madwivoter]

37. PTSD is right...

I agree that most of us are probably dealing with some level of post bush administration induced post traumatic stress disorder.

The only way for some people to get through it is to be "fanatic" in support of one candidate over another. It feels therapeutic in a way, we've all been nameless/faceless Americans to the current administration for so long and it seemed like no matter how loud we shouted we were never heard.

Everyone wants to be heard, so here we are.

Great post!

:applause:

[ms liberty]

38. K&R. Very insightful. I think you're on to something here! n/t

[rosesaylavee]

39. Um. This struck a cord.

Hadn't thought of this until I read your post and I started crying. Hard. Guess I have had a similar experience. I am so far removed from that young thing that thought it maybe it **might be all right** and maybe I was **over stressing too much** about the stolen election and the kind of creature that would have done such a thing to Gore.

In my wildest dreams, I had no idea that almost everything I loved about my country was soon to be trashed, denigrated, and removed. Poof.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I needed to read this.

[Forrest Greene]

41. Has Anyone Seriously Considered

...buying a shotgun for when the knock on the door comes? I have. I don't know whether I would point it at them or at me. Of course, it would amount to the same thing, more or less.

I'm pretty sure I wouldn't thrive very well in an American Auschwitz.

This is not the country, or the life, they promised me when I was a kid.

[femrap]

42. K and R

Much of the 'passion' I see is from new DUers...not well-honed in the field of politics.

I believe we are seeing TPTB utilizing 'Divide and Conquer' on the Democratic Party, pitting a white, middle-aged woman against a younger black man. Male v Female. White v Black. Old v Young.

If the two leading candidates cannot come to some kind of compromise on this (a nice one being 16 years of a Dem Prez), we're done. This party will implode....as our country turns into a mere shadow of itself.

I learned long ago that there are no heroes nor heroines...no one walks on water. It may be too late already. And when I hear other supposed Dems say that Impeachment is out of the question, I feel even more resigned to our disastrous future.

Gas was $3.45/gal today EVERYWHERE (collusion), but Congress goes along. These rich, white, ugly guys have simply ruined the entire planet. When you finally convince people to cut down all the trees in the Amazon, you gotta admit, things look rather bleak.

Great Post, Mike.

[PeaceNikki]

44. Indeed.

And the more informed I become, the more outraged I grow.

[Tashca]

45. Summed up very well.

I haven't posted in GD-P for several weeks. In fact I rarely even look in there. Too much pettiness and anger to suit me.

You mention personal, emotional, and spiritual disaster. I understand the personal and emotional, but would hope you might be stronger spiritually from this terrible experience.

I lived through Reagan and thought it could never get that bad again...oh my was I wrong. The Reagan administration just set up what is now unfolding in tens.

I too have stepped back from picking one of the finalists as my favorite. I think it's helped my emotional state. I'm going to put faith in the fact that the right person will be selected and once that is done I will put full effort forward to help elect that person. Getting this person elected is an essential first step to bringing this country back to one I can be proud of...I truly believe that.

[horseshoecrab]

46. Error: You don't have enough posts to recommend a thread

but I sure would recommend this one if I could!

I want my life back too! Excellent post and I thank you for saying it.


hanging on,


horseshoecrab

[Faux pas]

48. Horror, stress and a constant side to side shaking of my head

has worn me down to the nub. You nailed it for sure Mike03!

[Mimosa]

49. Why......

Mike, I agree with you to an extent. Yet, I don't and won't let myself believe that the presence or removal of one man in the Presidency of the United States will alter the direction of the global economy or even war and peace. I remember when LBJ was in office. I remember Vietnam and the demonstrations in which I participated against that war. Then Nixon came into office and the war escalated. My family's worst time economically was under Jimmy Carter's presidency. It was a dreadful time in America.

No matter what people now say the Reagan administration was pretty competent and people's personal economics got better. The dive began towards the end of Bush I's admin and through the Clinton admin. Clinton greatly benefited from the tech boom, which was a bust for some who weren't in the tech related businesses. Jobs poured out of America during those Clinton years. Many states lost whole industries including textiles, furniture, auto parts, etc. These type of businesses offered steady employment for semi-skilled labour. Now America has service industry employment for semi-skilled labour and immigrants have come to America to fill the jobs.

To make it short, our personal security and state of mind shouldn't depend on who is in any political office. In my decades I've been depressed as I watched politicians sell us out almost every time. This isn't to say 'don't hope' for change. I really hope we'll all get a break, and that Barack Obama will be looking out for all of us when he's elected.

[delt664]

50. I think you have something here

You are probably right.

After pulling my hair out, freaking out, and generally going crazy over the citizenship complacently rolling over as this country slowly implodes, all i can think of is "we HAVE to get a president elected who will FIX THIS MESS"

The main reason I support Obama over Hillary, is that (experience aside, i dont want to get into that argument here) I honestly think Obama believes with all of his being that he can make a change for the better in Washington I dont think Hillary does. Every other issue is secondary to that.

[SaveAmerica]

51. I've often wanted to start a thread to see if anyone else felt like this,

thanks so much for sharing your feelings. I've wanted to say it was like PTSD but on a much smaller scale (obviously). I too do not think I'm the same person I was 7 years ago, I also think that I'm in some sort of bereavement for America and for what has been done in our name to other countries.

As for the passion, it could be a result of each person having a specific reason for supporting their candidate. Mine is to make changes in Iraq and I feel passionate about making sure those changes are made in the most efficient and timely manner as possible.

Your thoughts are right on, I appreciate that you posted them here. We just have to hold on a little longer and hopefully we can begin to heal soon. :hug:

[galledgoblin]

52. excellent post, thank you (n/t)

[ScreamingMeemie]

53. Perhaps last year I would agree, but not this year.

My passions don't run very high anymore. It just is what it is.

[opihimoimoi]

54. Desperation/misery/poverty /etc....comes HOPE for a Change that is good.

Obama feeds on this...and he is good at it...

[rucky]

55. The great American mind fuck must be working

because this place is becoming completely incoherent.

There's also a social theory called Relative Deprivation that suggests through historical evidence that collective violence and aggression happen - not when things hit bottom - but when things start to improve. Bush is pretty much a lame duck, and now people feel the strength to fight. We still don't have a constructive way to channel our aggression - not until we have a nominee, at least.