Expert Can’t Believe Toddler Pulled Trigger

[hyphenate]

By Holly Bristow
FOX 35 NEWS

ORANGE COUNTY, Florida. (WOFL FOX 35, Orlando) --Ocoee Police are hoping that a medical examiners autopsy report and ballistics tests done on a .38 gun will help them figure out how a 22 month old child accidentally shot and killed himself.

<snip>

Tyler Rodgers would have turned two next month. According to Ocoee Police Officer Bill Richardson Tyler's father told them the baby accidentally found his 38 caliber revolver and shot himself.

"The incident is still under investigation,” Richardson said. “We are trying to find proper answers as to what happened. At this point we are still believing what they said...that this was an accident, but we are still following up.”

Brad Meltzer is the general manager of Al's Army Navy Store. His specialty is firearms. He heard about yesterday's tragic gun accident. "I can't believe a 22 month old child could do that,” Meltzer said. “It’s amazing to me.”

<snip>

"A revolver is not like a pistol” Meltzer said. “It does take some things to do it. Even if you have one in the chamber, even if you drop it, it doesn't mean its going to fire."

Police say the baby's father could be facing charges because the gun was not locked easily accessible to a minor. Because of the outcome, those would likely be felony charges.

Story: http://www.myfoxorlando.com/myfox/pages/News/Detail?contentId=5991875&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=TSTY&pageId=3.2.1

[selador]

1. not very knowledgeable

he says a revolver is not like a pistol, and that even if you drop it, it will not fire.

no modern pistol will fire upon being dropped, either

[MercutioATC]

4. Untrue...many semiautomatic handguns can discharge if dropped.

Most rely on an external safety. One of the exceptions is the Glock handgun. They have no external safeties, but have three internal safeties. They absolutely will not discharge unless you pull the trigger.

[selador]

7. can u name one?

I am not aware of any modern semi's that can fire. i am well aware of the glock's safe action , but my understanding was that other pistols require depressing of the pistol as well (which pulls back the sear, etc.)

otoh, i could be wrong :)

[benEzra]

13. No, you're essentially correct.

There are a few pistols that can fire IF the safety is off, but they are mostly old designs (the old Walther PPK and derivatives comes to mind, and the manual explicitly says that if a round is in the chamber, the safety must be on until ready to fire). Pretty much all modern designs (Glocks, S&W's, Sigs, Kahrs, Rugers, Kel-Tecs, Berettas, etc. etc.) are designed to be drop-safe even with the chamber loaded and the safety off.

[benEzra]

14. No, you're essentially correct.

There are a few pistols that can fire IF the safety is off, but they are mostly old designs (the old Walther PPK and derivatives comes to mind, and the manual explicitly says that if a round is in the chamber, the safety must be on until ready to fire; also some older versions of the Colt M1911 if the grip safety is defective or deactivated). Pretty much all modern designs (Glocks, S&W's, Sigs, Kahrs, Rugers, Kel-Tecs, Berettas, etc. etc.) are designed to be drop-safe even with the chamber loaded and the safety off.

[benEzra]

12. Only very old designs, mostly, and only if the safety is off.

The old Walther PPK and derivatives is an example, as well as many iterations and derivations of the Colt Model 1911 (with the exception of post-Series 80 Colts and possibly some others). Not only Glocks have passive firing pin blocks, but also Rugers, Sigs, Kahrs, Kel-Tecs, Berettas, all Third-Gen and later Smith & Wessons, etc.; basically anything designed since the late 1970's or very early 1980's. On most pistols, the firing pin is unlocked during the trigger pull by a lever that presses upward on a button on the bottom of the slide (that's at least how Glocks and S&W's do it, which are the ones I have direct experience with).

[MercutioATC]

16. Actually, you're right...I checked.

Nearly every gun made today has to pass a drop test to be sold in this country anyway.

[Winterblues]

11. If the hammer is cocked and the gun is dropped it can fire

Can a child of two cock such a hammer? Some babies have a very strong grip..It is curious though. How could a baby that is too young to even walk find a loaded pistol and shoot themself?

[guitar man]

15. the child was 22 months old

almost 2 years, trust me, the child could walk, and run, and jump, and climb....and get into things they aren't supposed to be into at that age.

As to whether the child could cock the hammer, I'd have t know a little more about the pistol in question than I've read...

[NightWatcher]

2. the average trigger pull for a .38 is around 7-8 pounds

I seriously doubt a 22 month old could have done that. A quick gsr test should show if the kids really did it

[Poll_Blind]

5. Is GSR the check the skin for powder residue test?

I don't want to sound morbid but we live in a wild (as in jungle) world: An adult could have done it to make it look like a suicide. If the adult were wearing gloves that might prevent a GSR test (if it's what I think it is) from coming back positive.

Jesus Christ, I think I made myself sick just imagining the possibility of this scenario. I'm not claiming or even trying to imply that the dad or someone else did this- I'm just thinking like the prosecutor. And there definitely will be a prosecutor.

What a senseless fucking waste of human life.

PB

[NightWatcher]

6. many snub nosed revolvers leave a spray pattern on the hand

so not only is the presence of gun shot residue important, but the pattern of the powder burns.

* sorry to get all 'geeky' on you

[Poll_Blind]

8. No worries- There isn't a whole lot that doesn't fascinate me. Thanks! n/t

PB

[Poll_Blind]

3. Oh sweet Jesus what a nightmare. Both the accident and the poor child's criminally-negligent father

And to Meltzer, the gun store owner- what a weak fucking excuse for an excuse.

"A revolver is not like a pistol” Meltzer said. “It does take some things to do it. Even if you have one in the chamber, even if you drop it, it doesn't mean its going to fire."

:puke: Fuck you, Brad. Yeah a revolver has important safety features- WHEN IT'S USED BY AN ADULT It's not like he's surprised the kid managed to load and fire an anti-aircraft gun- it's a fucking revolver.

Dickhead.

PB

[stillcool]

9. I'm no expert but neither can I...

[hyphenate]

10. Ocoee police seek details of toddler's death (Even more information)

on this case. Seems my first instincts were right. I might not have much in the way of trust anymore--perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised when I see it.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The 22-month-old's father, who has a police record, said the child shot himself by accident.
Kristen Reed and Bianca Prieto | Sentinel Staff Writers

OCOEE - Police continue to question the family of a toddler who was fatally shot during the weekend to determine whether the young boy accidentally shot himself with his father's gun. "We have to re-enact the crime scene," Ocoee police Officer Bill Richardson said Monday. "We're trying to prove or disprove what was told to us."

<snip>

State criminal records show that in 2003, Dontavious Rodgers was convicted of selling, manufacturing or delivering a controlled substance, which is a felony. Because of the felony conviction, Rodgers is not legally able to own a gun.

<snip>

Orange County Jail records show that Dontavious Rodgers was booked Sunday morning after being arrested by Ocoee police for contempt of court in two child-support cases. He was released after posting bond later that day. Orange County court records show that at least three women have sued him for child support.

<snip>

The weapon was submitted to the Orange County Sheriff's Office to determine whether it was the gun used in the shooting and if it had any malfunctions. Police also are waiting for the medical examiner's report to be completed.

On Sunday, Richardson said the gun belonged to Dontavious Rodgers, but it was not registered or listed as stolen. That type of gun typically is a "double-action" revolver, which requires the shooter to exert a lot of pressure on the gun for it to fire, he said.


Complete story:
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/orl-toddler1108mar11,0,7645874.story