Is this kind of SEX/Elliot Spitzer style now a status symbol for men of power & money-???

[defendandprotect]

Poll question: Is this kind of SEX/Elliot Spitzer style now a status symbol for men of power & money-???

[supernova]

1. What do you mean NOW?

This story, guy marries, guy gets very successful, guy gets famous, guy goes cruising for sex not from his wife, is a old as the hills.

Except that now, with women's liberation, it becomes a bigger deal with more liability attached to it. Ages ago, the wife, nor anyone else dared to call the man on it. It was just an accepted part of being a successful man.

So, in that we make a fuss about it now, it can be seen to be a small improvement. It still happens though.

[EFerrari]

4. Older than hills. Hills formed on the corpses of men who bought favors.

The Sierras, the Rockies, the Adirondacks, the Alps. :shrug:

[supernova]

5. Yes, mountains are really

the trash heaps of long ago johns.


Heh.

[defendandprotect]

6. I mean the high-priced prostitution angle; not sex alone which is "as old as the hills" . . .

[mondo joe]

7. High priced prostitutes are as old as large scale society. NT

[defendandprotect]

8. Right --- so is using a high priced prositute more of a status symbol

than simply having an affair --- ????

Is the paying for sex now a status symbol???

[supernova]

9. Except that it always has been

How many societies were there where the leader and others of the ruling class kept harems? Indeed, were expected to.

He was expected to be wealthy enough to house, clothe and feed all those women too.

Edit: Don't forget we were given as "gifts" to impress the guy and improve diplomatic relations. And to refuse me as a gift would have been equally insulting to the giftor.

[defendandprotect]

14. I guess I have a "New Deal" conflict with that --- tabula resa ---

in other words, what you're saying is that the revolutionary "all are created equal" --
nor the democractic ideals of "equality for all" have made no imprint on the male mind since
those times --- ???

Men never change . . . ??

Actually, I remember really being shocked back in the 70's when I came to realize that two of my
executive bosses had arranged for a visitor to go to a whore house!!!
To me, they became pimps . . .

What I was trying to get to in this conversation --- other than what you are saying which is, of course, valid and very interesting --- is the competitive/celebrity influence on this paying for sex thing. Whereas many of us might look at ole Elliot and say . . . "yep, that guy needs to pay for sex..." many celebrities have made prostitution use --- "in and out the door" --- something for the average male to reach for????

I can see I have a blind spot in this conversation ---
though I'd be for legalization of prositutiton ---
and never arresting a prositute without all of her Johns ---
I think I have an democratic bias in my heart and brain which makes this a bit of "up is down" in my mind ---


PS: Which reminds me that the "cover" for Henry Kissinger at that time --- 1970's --- was that
girls were interested in him --- which was hard for anyone to believe. I'd have had trouble thinking that even a prostitute would do him for any amount of $$.

[mondo joe]

15. My democratic bias says to each their own, provided all are conseting adults.

I consider prohibitions on prostitution backward and petty.

[defendandprotect]

17. I agree --- I'd be for legalizing prostitution --- and giving protection to it

as any other business.

But meanhile, no prostitute should be arrested without her John --- and her pimp, if there is one.

[EFerrari]

18. It's not that men never change. It's more that our culture hasn't changed

as much as we'd like to believe, especially among the powerful.

[defendandprotect]

19. dupe

dupe

[defendandprotect]

20. Well . . . don't men have something to do with prevailing culture . . . ???

Unless we want to say that most men live under a patriarchal hierarchy which creates all ---

Do most males want to say something like that --- ???

[mondo joe]

21. Men generally like sex, and often find more and varied partners to be more appealling.

Not all men, but as a trend I think it's so.

So I'm not sure what would or should change.

[defendandprotect]

24. Wait a minute . . ..

Patriarchy exists, in part, to curtail the female impulse of full time love making . . . ???
Remember any of that?

When it comes to sex, it is the female who is suppressed ---

So -- if we had less patriarchy, females would probably have more sex --- !!!

Think about it ---

[mondo joe]

26. That's some theory. But if you look at gay men and lesbians, I think you'll get a

better sense of what men and women are like when unencumbered by the controls of the other gender in their intimate lives.

Men like sex, with varied partners, as a trend. Men with greater resources have the option to have more of that.

[defendandprotect]

29. It's one of the reasons why we have male domination of female reproduction . . .

it was impossible to know who the father was . . .

Well . . . I don't think you can look at homosexuals of either gender because there was and IS
a control over their private lives which in large part still exists --- and that would be patriarchal hierarchies declaring homosexuality a no-no.

Nor is there an equal "control" female vs made as in patriarchy . . . it's a one sided control.

Women also like sex with varied partners --- and seem to often find ways even in marriage and relationships to have such sex.

Women are now earning their own money -- will high-priced male prostitutes now become a status symbol for them---???

[mondo joe]

30. I don't know if male prostitutes will be a significant status symbol for women -

I'm not even sure I buy the idea that the female version are a status symbol for men as much as a perk.

Not everything is done because of benefit to status.

[defendandprotect]

36. I guess we have to ask that question of females . . . . ????

And, OKAY . . . good for you for questioning the premise that this is a status symbol for men --
or a perk.

They why are males like Elliot Spitzer so attracted to this kind of sex ---
even when we see that he sacrficed his future career ---
and harm to his family?

Of course, looking at Spitzer and remembering Cunningham --- bleech . . .

[EFerrari]

23. Whatever they want to say, they still live here.

And, it's not so much patriarchy as cultural mores.

An individual man or woman can only impact cultural habits so much.

[defendandprotect]

25. People create "cultural mores" . . .

hierarchies create them --- is that not true?

No one forces anyone to use a prostitute ---
someone has to become enanormed of this idea --

which I am trying to point out ---

Where is the male conscience at play?

[mondo joe]

27. I don't mean to be a nag, but I don't see what the male conscience is supposed to do with

regard to prostitution.

There's nothing wrong with prostitution - not being one or paying one.

There may be plenty wrong with cheating on a spouse, but that's not necessarily related to prostitution.

[defendandprotect]

32. Be a nag . . . it's good to hear what males have to say on this . . .

There is something wrong with prostitution when it is illegal as it still is now . . .
prostitutes are arrested and generally the Johns are not ---
and most prostitutes have been in relationships with pimps ---
often relationships which were violent.
I think conscience has to play a role when we have women often forced into prostitution --
all around the globe.

Come to think of it . . . wasn't that movie with Roberts and .... what's his name ...
about prostitution where he finds her on a streetcorner -- a low priced hooker ---
and ends up marrying her . . . something of the selling of the idea that if you have
enough money you can not only buy a prostitute's time but even a temporary "relationship"
and .... end up even in marriage!!! Is that full circle, or what---???

[mondo joe]

33. I don't see why conscience comes into play with prostitution, provided all parties are

consenting adults. True, it's illegal - but so was homosexual activity in several states just a few years ago. I inored those laws, with no problem.

[defendandprotect]

35. We don't know if they are always "consenting" adults . . .

and we have the imbalance of this being mainly a female profession ---

and mostly males who have had the available $$ to buy such services.

Many homosexuals ignored those "laws" . . . however, it was always on their minds.
No one lives freely under such oppression no matter how much they may try to ignore the circumstances.

[EFerrari]

28. The thing is, you are projecting your own values all over

hiring a prostitute.

In many cultures, that has no stigma.

In our own culture, it is a tacitly accepted practice that every now and then is condemned in public when it is politically convenient.

Cultures are like turtles, they move slowly. And this practice is so old, you might expect change to move very slowly.

[defendandprotect]

34. Right . .. my values would be for equality --- and an end to the imbalances

we see between the male and female, especially in sexual issues.

Do males have no "values" in regard to this issue which they want to express?


The "STIGMA" has to do with the imbalance --

We don't have equality in this subject of selling one's body --

in fact, many women are still being forced into this "profession."

[EFerrari]

42. I don't think the stigma of resorting to prostitutes has anything to do with

a power imbalance. It, imho, more nearly reflects the Puritanical stigma all things sexual have had through-out our history and in this case, invested in the sex worker and in those who have contact with her or him. Mainstream American culture seems to be pretty cool with power imbalances despite all that rhetoric to the contrary.

[mondo joe]

10. I don't think its status has changed for centuries.

Being able to provide what is perceived as a very limited commodity has always carried status.

Of course it can only be a status symbol if others know about it, which for a political figure is a no-no, so it may be LESS of a status symbol now.

[EFerrari]

11. It has always been a comodity -- or, at least as long as we have written records. n/t

[Lilith Velkor]

13. You don't pay a prostitute for sex, you pay her (or him) to not call you afterwards

The higher prices are paid for a combination of looks and discretion.

[flvegan]

2. I, personally, would see "paying for it" as a hit to my status.

Especially if I were married.

[EFerrari]

12. People with money get into the habit of thinking that they can buy anything.

It becomes detached from morality or sentiment.

[flvegan]

40. Yeah, but people with REAL money

don't pay for it. They don't have briefcases, they don't play slave to a cellphone.

People with REAL money don't buy sex any more than they buy anything else that personal. The neuvo-riche might embrace it, but that is what it is. Call me in 1st quarter 2009 and see where they are.

[EFerrari]

45. Sure, unless it's some kind of role playing. n/t

[defendandprotect]

22. Is this a topic of conversation among men --- wishing they had the $ for

highly-paid prostitutes . . . ???

And, where do those conversations fall in importantance to other "wishes," for instance . . .
if I may ask?

[flvegan]

31. Not one that I've ever had

and, when I think of my male friends and family, my take would be one they'd be in close agreement with.

Most of my male friends wish they had the money for bills, retirement, starting a business, and yes...really fast cars. Though, tbh, I have a fast car and a hot girlfriend that I would never cheat on. Therefore, my monetary dreams are just in security for me and my rescue, and scoring a sweet Rolex.

Yeah, I'm kinda superficial.

[defendandprotect]

38. OK . . . so you don't see this as a "status symbol" trend for most men . . .

When you said above that you thought this would be a "hit" to your status . . .
I wasn't sure if you meant up or down!!!

Thanks for a heartwarming answer...

So . . . did Elliot Spitzer have too little of importance to worry about . . . or what?
Does this happen to males of a certain age?
Is he just too ugly for an affair?
Is it a power trip?

[flvegan]

39. Nah, not in the least.

Look at the truly "powerful men" in the public eye.

You think Trump pays? How about Hef?

Hell, Bret Michaels (from Poison) gets PAID to have a show about it.

Gene Simmons (Kiss) is celebrated for it.

That idiot Flava Flave has a show about it.

The truly powerful don't pay. Ever. It would be a hit to my status because if I even HAD a status, which I don't, I think that whatever status I had would be hurt by having to fork out money for sex.

I don't honestly know Spitzer's deal. I don't know the why. Is it age, looks or power? I dunno. I can only speak for myself. I think he probably got caught up in a trip. Made a bad decision. I can tell you that a certain amount of "fame" amongst your peers can drive you to consider things you might not have otherwise thought of. It's the poor embracement of one's "celebrity" at the time. That's all.

[defendandprotect]

41. Excellent points . . .!!!

Insightful on Spitzer --
we'll have to see what happens . . .
would be a shame if he's been doing this for years . . .

On the serious side, I think this will hurt Dems --- all of us!

See ya around, I hope!

[hiaasenrocks]

3. And the women who work for it, yes.

"Kristen" wasn't poor, quite obviously.

[Lilith Velkor]

16. Not a status symbol, just a perk

Same as it ever was.

[LSdemocrat]

37. If it's supposed to be a deep, deep secret, how can it be a status symbol?

[EFerrari]

44. Because it signifies to the owner. n/t

[Occam Bandage]

43. ..."now?"

:rofl: