Is Eliot Spitzer Being Targetted to Scare Congress into Giving Telecoms IMMUNITY?

[McCamy Taylor]

Look at the facts as we know them.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080311/ap_on_re_us/spitzer_prostitution_70

Spitzer was the initial target of the investigation and was tracked using court-ordered wiretaps that appear to have recorded him arranging for a prostitute to meet him at a Washington hotel in mid-February, the official said.

The article says that his bank turned him in. However, we know that every phone call, email and fax in the U.S. goes through a secret room, where the NSA can spy on any citizen of the United States. Congress knows it too. We also know that if the FBI tells a federal court that it has reason to believe that a certain individual has committed a crime---and can provide evidence---the court is not going to ask "Did you first obtain that evidence from illegal spying via AT&T". So, the FBI can follow up rumors or hunches with wide searches of e-mails--fishing expeditions. In Spitzer's case that would have netted them calls that the governor made to the call girl operation. They could then arrange for someone within the bank to search his records to notify them of the results in order to create a plausible chain whereby the case could have been started without an initial illegal wiretap.

The message of such a case to Congress could be chilling. A smart, cautious lawyer ex-Attorney General Governor, rising star of the Democratic Party brought down by something as stupid as the Mann Act---a law that is generally associated in the public mind with the racially charged prosecution of the boxer Jack Johnson and other political prosecutions but not with real criminal activity. Everyone knows that Spizter would be cautious if he was visiting a prostitute. The most likely way someone like him could have been caught is through the federal government's illegal domestic spying program. And yet, because the Bush administration will not release details of the program, even if this method was employed Spitzer will never be able to prove it in court.

And now Democrats are helping the Bush administration by throwing Eliot Spitzer under the bus, because he happens to be a superdelegate for Hillary Clinton. Yesterday, Keith Olbermann actually referred to the New York Governor as a Hillary Clinton super delegate. I guess he could not resist sliming the candidate by association. The problem with this kind of behavior is that it gives Congress the impression that if its members are targeted by the Bush administration, they too will be thrown to the wolves by rank and file Democrats.

There have been several recent instances of illegal activity by Republicans in national office and Democrats have not called for their resignation or been hostile to these officials. It is unseemly for us to persecute our own, knowing that our Congressmen and woman need our support now if they are to resist the Bush-Cheney-Rove blackmail machine and vote NO to telecom immunity.

If members of Congress see us rush to pillory Eliot Spitzer for a victimless crime, they are going to think Why should I stick my neck out to protect this mob that will turn on me when the Mukasey DOJ announces charges---possibly bogus---against me? .

I am convinced that the timing of the Spitzer case announcement is no coincidence. The Bush administration will use the facts of the case to try to scare Congress into voting YES on telecom immunity. The best thing that Democrats can do is to stand firmly behind Governor Spitzer and denounce politically motivated federal prosecutions.

Also, keep in mind that even if he was not initially caught by an illegal wiretap, the case can be presented to the public in such a way that members of Congress might worry that he was. That is all that matters, that Congress be so scared of the same thing happening to them that they vote yes .

[gasperc]

1. TPM is reporting that they have grown a pair

and are balking big time. Maybe the Spitzer story had the opposite intended effect and glavanized DEMS to fight Bush's totalitarian tendicies

[McCamy Taylor]

4. Did the TPM story come out before or after the Spizter story?

Because the Dems are throwing Spizter under the bus right now and I thought I saw the TPM story before the Spizter story broke. That would make me think that the DOJ fed the Spitzer story to the press as a counter move to get Congress to back down.

[uponit7771]

2. I don't think Mr. Spitzer believed crap stunk when it came to the Bush admin! There's no politician

...out there that should feel safe to talk on the frickin phone with the Bushies in office.

[lifesbeautifulmagic]

3. i am pretty confident that republican's can talk on the phone quite freely

how else are they going to coordinate the attacks, and plan the next bring down a dem strategy.

[annabanana]

5. I want to know who's Client #1 and 2 and 3. . . n/t

[ScreamingMeemie]

6. Mr Spitzer was also one of those who actively pushed for broader

wiretapping abilities. There is no conspiracy. As much as some of us want there to be one. For what? To protect a criminal? I don't want him, thanks.

[VP505]

7. I don't want him either

but we have to be aware of the all possible motovations behind these thing. As someone posted its very possible that he is Guilty as hell and still SET UP for political reasons.

[ScreamingMeemie]

9. A crime is a crime. It boils down to an arrogant mind thinking he is

above the law. Now, lets wipe it out of both parties and quit trying to prop up our own miserable excuses for legislators when they f up.

[VP505]

20. I was not suggesting

that he not be held accountable. I want to know the details of how he came to be a target, who was behind it, was it politically motivated, etc. He sure as hell isn't the first political hypocrite who has advocated against prostitution or some other crime while fully participating is the same activity.

[elehhhhna]

31. Perhaps a greater crime was committed in order to expose his crime, tho.

Just sayin'.

[Occam Bandage]

8. Those were legal, court-ordered wiretaps--wiretaps that he pushed for.

[SirScud]

32. Spitzer Blowback

Live by the tap, die by the tap!

[housewolf]

10. His friggin' BANK turned him in to the IRS

for cash transactions made by the NY Governor to "shell" companies. The IRS investigated and thought they were bribe-related. Turns out the "shell" companies were covers for Empire.

Another fine American tradition down the toilet - trust in your banker.

[ScreamingMeemie]

11. Banks are required, by law, to report suspicious transactions

and transactions involving $10,000 or more in cash.

Bank Secrecy Act, in place long before the Patriot act.

The SAR is sometimes used on even smaller amounts if they warrant suspicion and usually are, in the cases of small time bookkeeping and money laundering.

[housewolf]

18. Thanks for the info

Boy, have I ever been astounded the past 2 days by how much I don't know about our laws!

I always thought that a person could trust their banker. I guess that's not become a myth or urban legend.

I saw your post on the other thread, too- that's for replying.

[ScreamingMeemie]

19. It's no problem. FWIW, I was not happy about it then either.

Just a few months ago I got to be the subject of a CTR when I transferred money from my husband's estate. Thank god I paid those parking tickets.

[Leopolds Ghost]

22. Wiretapping based on suspition generated by public records of a transaction of $10,000

Where the transaction itself is NOT evidence nor leads to suspicion of illegal FINANCIAL activity (tax shelters, etc.) that are UNIVERSALLY ENGAGED in by the wealthy and powerful customers of Spitzer's bank (some of whom he prosecuted for much more significant financial fraud, such as wire transfers for the perfectly legal purpose of billionaires avoiding having to pay taxes!!!!!)

In other words, DUers are now saying it's OK to wiretap other DUers
PURELY for wiring money in "suspiciously" large quantities where there
is no prima facie evidence of suspicious activity (acting beyond ones
means, wiring money to a known criminal, etc). And yet they aren't
holding their breath waiting for every single one of the one million
millionaires in Manhattan to be charged with crimes ranging from tax
avoidance (which they ALL do) creating shell companies to manage their
childrenms wealth (which they ALL do) to insider trading
(another "victimless crime" that everyone big in Manhattan and
Washington engages in) to funding BCCI. No... they won't hold their breath.

Instead they'll demand prosecution of the Dems Bush deigns to prosecute,
a sort of self-sacrifice, bloodletting mechanism before the altar
of warrantless wiretapping.

DUers are so sadly naive. Spitzer was a class traitor, nothing more.

[ScreamingMeemie]

23. Not so... An SAR on funds of less than $10,000, if suspicious, can and

will be investigated. I would agree with you on some DUers being naive but that wouldn't be fair, or true.

http://www.fincen.gov/reg_main.html

[Leopolds Ghost]

25. In other words, DUers should be tapped purely for depositing or withdrawing money

Beyond the course of what is "normal" for their and their bank's socioeconomic class.

Do you think this is OK?

I was not criticizing Bush for wiretapping and auditing ONLY people who withdraw $10,000 or more.

As if the government does or ever will prosecute a single millionaire for creating tax shelters.

That's why they sought to bring down Spitzer in the first place, for God's sake!

[ScreamingMeemie]

29. It is what I did in my job. It was what I was required to do by law.

No, I was not willing to do jail time. This is not out of the norm in the course of normal banking business. Most wealthy investors and customers are well aware that they are being watched. They have been since 1970. The trick is the majority of them are clean or smarter than Mr. Spitzer. I think it is okay. Sorry. He committed (or it appears so) a crime. I want all criminals out of office, including Bush, Cheney, and working our way down the list...with total disregard for the letter of the alphabet next to their name.

[McCamy Taylor]

12. My question is the TIMING of the MEDIA lynching. Why release the story now?

The Bush administration has used the DOJ as a political tool. Telecom immunity---to shut out the possibility of telecom employees or NSA employees coming forward as whistle blowers and filing whistle blower lawsuits which would allow them to lose their jobs and face long periods of unemployment and harassment secure in the knowledge that they will be able to pay for legal representation and eventually get monetary recompense--is a number one priority right now for the Bushies.

It is the timing that stinks. And the fact that they released the info without actual charges. No perp walk. If they had waited until there was an indictment it would be more damning. But then, the government would have to lay out its case and evidence, which would make it less scary for Congress. Fewer unknowns. Less speculation that this might be a case of AT&T spying---that could happen to any member of Congress.

Ordinarily, if they wanted to slime the Dems, they would try to have Marshalls deliver charges or better yet make an arrest on national TV, right?

This whole affair is messed up. When was the last time the feds used the Mann Act for this kind of case? Should not this be a DC prostitution case?

[lonestarnot]

13. Apples and Oranges. One wiretap w warrant/ mass w/o warrants. hmmmf.

[Perry Logan]

14. I think it was done to torpedo the abortion-rights bill he was pushing.

[McCamy Taylor]

15. Here is someone else who sees a connection. Dave Lindorff at After Downing Street

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/31708

Spitzer Bust Provides a Warning Regarding NSA Spying

By Dave Lindorff

Now imagine that instead of a call-girl operation, this had been a mosque or an international charity organization, and suppose you were someone who had made a call to ask about making donations to help the victims of the last earthquake in Indonesia? If that mosque, or charity, happened to be on the list of outfits being monitored by the NSA's computers, your call might well have been picked up. Then the focus would shift to your phone and your internet server, and conceivably every communication you made would be watched.

This is the America we now live in. According to the Wall Street Journal, after a wave of national outrage forced the Bush administration to shut down its Total Information Awareness project at the Pentagon, Bush and Cheney simply moved their scheme to subject all telecommunications and bank transactions to computer monitoring over to the NSA.

Since none of this spying activity is subject to court supervision and warrant requirements, we are left having to trust the personnel at the NSA, the so-called Justice Department, and the president and his administration, not to abuse it.

Right. And think of the temptations!

The administration could use the fact that a journalist has talked to a Muslim (" a suspected terrorist") or that a member of Congress has traveled to a Muslim country and been in contact with "known terrorists" as an excuse to start monitoring calls--and pick up calls that can be used for blackmail or "quaint" prosecutions like Mann Act charges. Anti-war opinions have been enough to get people labeled subversives or terrorists in this country. So, any member of Congress or the press who has contact with anti-war groups can be accused of associating with terra-ists.

If we do not stand up for a fellow Dem, then our other Dems will not stand up for us. The Bush administration is counting on us to pay more attention to the Hillary-Obama squabble than our own civil liberties.

[Wizard777]

16. I'm wondering if Pelosi is ready for the firestorm that will hit the House.

Should the republicans Impeach Spitzer over his penis. What is it with the Republicans and their obsession with democrats penises and impeachment? This would make a good back drop for Bush & Cheney's impeachment. The State Republicans rants over this would put pressure on the Federal Republicans. They would look rediculous in whole for going balistic over prostitution while trying to turn a blind eye to war crimes.

[robbedvoter]

17. Can't believe the Dem gloating - not a fan of Spitzer, but remember CheneY?

Consider this: WMR is now reporting specifically who at ABC News' 20/20 became fully aware of not only Cheney's use of the escort service, but dozens more "high profile" names - culled from the phone records only since 2002 (the escort services full records go back to 1994). ABC's crack team was reportedly gagged by their bosses after concerned calls from the White House. This would be amazing if true, yet no White House denial has been forthcoming as of this writing...
http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_gustav_w_070524_dc_madam_scandal_wid.htm

[ScreamingMeemie]

21. I don't see gloating. I see a lot of people wanting to get rid of the

corruption that is destroying all branches of our Democracy. That is not gloating. It's asking for accountability on the parts of those who are supposed to be representing us. Just because Cheney is a criminal who needs to be prosecuted doesn't make Spitzer an innocent lamb. I hate that those who disagree with others will twist it into something not so. It reminds me of a Republican spin room.

[Leopolds Ghost]

28. So where's the outage at warrantless wiretapping or tracking the financial records

of ordinary DUers on the basis of a selective, legal and ridiculously
low bar that allows them to selectively prosecute, as is done for
speed violations, to create a police state where you can be assumed
to have committed any number of unprocsecuted citable offenses?

[ScreamingMeemie]

30. So now you're jumping to warrantless wiretapping? I haven't seen

that. The warrant, based on the facts we have, is legal and in place. There is no selective prosecution (although I would use persecution here) except for in the minds of those who want to spin this into something. I will not be a Bushbot. This is what they do when confronted with the reality of it. Sorry.

[tom_paine]

24. Well, misuse of the Organs of the State is standard Bushie/Nazi policy.

Other than this being an even-year "election" year and the entire US Attorney populace revealed to be criminals, perhaps there is more to the timing.

But it does not matter. The Old American Republic can never now be restored without (REDACTED).

That is a fact, no matter how much we might want it to be otherwise.

[EFerrari]

26. That's a interesting theory but I don't think so and here's why.

We know Rove and his criminals have been working at subverting elections. They've got all kinds of programs in place to suppress our vote.

We also know they've been trying to turn CA for years now. They even went to the trouble of getting our governor recalled and smearing our SOS out of office SO THEY COULD MANIPULATE THE VOTE HERE.

Are they also targeting New York? See this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2988882

:shrug:

[Thepricebreaker]

27. Guys lets stop spinning! HE GOT CAUGHT.