The things you own end up owning you.

[undergroundpanther]

Doing less of what doesn't work is a principle that is practically instinctive to the human designer. But when it comes to our social organizations, the people of our culture follow a very different principle: If it doesn't work, do it MORE.
http://www.survivingwithincivilization.blogspot.com/


Humanity has spent most of its history free of heirarchy. Equality is not a liberal dream -- it was the reality for nearly every human being who lived prior to 10,000 BC.

Social domination originated with human males dominating females. The infirmities of age, increasing population, natural disasters, technological changes, the growth of civil society, and the spread of warfare were contributory factors.

Bookchin claims that the notion of a natural world separate from human culture appeared with the rise of hierarchy:

"the idea of dominating nature has its primary source in the domination of human by human and the structuring of the natural world into a hierarchical Chain of Being"

'What Is Social Ecology?'. Murray Bookchin

We can only overcome the ideology of dominating nature by creating of a society without hierarchical structures or economic classes.

Bookchin claims that industrial growth isn't the result of a change in a cultural outlook alone, nor is it due to the impact of scientific rationality. Rather it stems from the principle of the market itself, the demand to grow or die.

http://www.thegreenfuse.org/socialecology.htm


Social dominance theory (SDT: Sidanius & Pratto, 1993, 1999) was proposed to explain the pervasive nature of status hierarchies and intergroup prejudice worldwide. The theory consists of three core points: (1) group hierarchies are established to minimize group conflict in a society: (2) these hierarchies are maintained through ideologies that promote group inequality: and (3) to work effectively, these ideologies must be widely accepted within a society and must appear to be self-apparent truths. Because these ideologies appear to be self-evident, they are referred to as legitimizing myths (Pratto, Sidanius, Stallworth, & Malle, 1994).
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-530916/Learning-and-unlearning-the-myths.html

The act of telling the truth to a society long dominated and controlled, fed on lies, Suddenly the liars go absolutely crazy in trying to destroy you or hurt you in any way that makes you shut up and others not listen to what you are trying to communicate..
http://www.helium.com/items/796821-assessing-democracy-rootsegalitarian-democracy
http://debrakline.com/anth4.htm
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3248-democracy-beats-despotism-in-the-animal-world.html
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C03E6DB1E38F930A25757C0A9629C8B63

[villager]

1. Bookchin referenced on DU! Who's next -- Arne Naess? ;-)

Happy to K&R, UP...

[undergroundpanther]

2. Hey, people need more diverse views

more difference and healthy radicalness .People need to think deeper,than they do,challenge status quo's and assumptions,Ask way beyond the standard questions and pseudo depth,so many people just float at.Challenges of intellect that will help others to relate to and eventually understand thoughts and concepts not offered to us already . I want people to 'get it' that asking the same shallow questions and not moving past the same old ways over and over isn't really learning at all .I want to help others with intellectual diversity and radical thoughts to find the questions inside to ask to others so more of us can endure thinking outside of all these boxes we have inside us and have the confidence to tear them all down.Share with each other until we gain the collective awareness of things as they are,are,from many views that are not so common and if people dive in seeking, eventually we may find new and valid answers to the problems that beset us all ,in the ideas and thoughts that will be originating from OUR own POV's,reflected off non mainstream views all blending and coalescing conversations into ideas for real life and the kind of culture WE desire for ourselves and each other. Conversations that will lead to communities that are not concerned about or manufactured crisis and engineered controversy made to serve the powers that be.The mainstream is putting out that inner fire, strangling us with the same POV and arguments that get us nowhere yet again that are not working. What we are doing still is listening to mainstream authorities and experts and politicians and the 'market. It isn't challenging the real issues.And isn't working anymore, so I want to interject more diverse concepts and see if people that discover common ground for real, can find something that DOES work ,in an explosion of radical thoughts shared by people who want to live their lives and are sick of this culture that not only does not work but hurts too..

[villager]

3. Yes!

What Underground Panther said! ;-)

[undergroundpanther]

4. Howabout this?

In our time-poor society, time kills people, because so much of it is spent in vehicles rather than being physically active or with loved ones.
http://www.sprawlkills.com/Excerpts.html
This is a good one
http://www.water-4-fuel.com/subscriber.html
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2008/02/21/7201/
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A52470-2004Sep26.html
I soon discovered that the seemingly random collection of men and women in the community young and old, professional and destitute—were nearly all linked together in a vast, often invisible web that girded their neighborhood. This web was the underground economy.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6195673
http://www.marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2006/12/off_the_books_t.html

If the powers that be refuse to let you live your life, you find a way to live WITHOUT THEM.
http://www.greatdreams.com/commune.htm
http://www.greatdreams.com/survival.htm
http://www.undergroundhousing.com/book.html
http://2012base.com/Survival_Bunkers/Make_Your_Own_Bunker/

[crimsonblue]

5. enjoy your anarchy

and the subsequent disappearance of running water, electricity, and society.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[undergroundpanther]

7. Well we lived many many years without it

One mans blessing can feel to another like a curse.And civilization as you know it is unsustainable. Sorry but it IS. The Earth cannot support a mass civilized consumer lifestyle Forever.
Either we scale down and change or the Earth will force our consumerist lifestyle to end. For me I'd rather get used to less now than have to cope while a massive crash of the way things are is ending is happening around me.
Anarchy it isn't about lawlessness, it is about community and relationships of equal power distribution among members who do not abuse freedom and who are responsible and ethical by nature finding out a way to make it through the shortsighted greed of"leaders" who think they engineered this consumer culture,and it's inevitable collapse. I think people who benefit the most from this system are the most scared of the consequences of it's collapse,So they are not capable of seeing anything else is possible outside it's barriers,because they are addicted to a "way of life"that blinds them to other options.

[hunter]

8. I'll keep the running water and electricity.

But this society? Not so much.

George W. Bush is our president. That pretty much sums up our society's worth.

Any rational people would have stormed the gates of our White House and thrown George W. Bush out on his ear. Instead we all just sat around watching television.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=103300&mesg_id=103300

Bush sings his farewell song...

D'oh.

[Selatius]

9. Nice strawman argument. You can't seriously be that intellectually lazy. n/t

[blues90]

10. The path of progress seems to have been the wrong path

I suppose people could have benefitted from progress if this was a progress without destroying the planet or people's minds as it has .

Long ago we did use windpower for various things and we could have done it to produce electricity as long as the process of building a generator were not destructive .

Sitting and relying on a car was a bad idea all around . Over populating was a bad idea as well .

If we did not have these new modern devices and never had them no one would miss them .

What we have done is continue to build more things that require power to work them .

If I had the choice of living without a power structure and live a free life I would be willing to give up what little I do have now . I don't mind doing the work required to sustain myself .