Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Terrorist surveillance program used domestically to get Spitzer.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
go west young man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 05:08 AM
Original message
Terrorist surveillance program used domestically to get Spitzer.
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/03/worlds-oldest-p.html

But just as much as the alleged prostitution ring employed technology to further its reach, the authorities uncovered it the same way. The FBI, according to court documents, intercepted more than 5,000 telephone calls and text messages, more than 6,000 e-mails, bank and travel records -- all, the bureau said, with court authorized warrants.

And this front page WSJ article:

According to current and former intelligence officials, the spy agency now monitors huge volumes of records of domestic emails and Internet searches as well as bank transfers, credit-card transactions, travel and telephone records. The NSA receives this so-called “transactional” data from other agencies or private companies, and its sophisticated software programs analyze the various transactions for suspicious patterns. Then they spit out leads to be explored by counter terrorism programs across the U.S. government, such as the NSA’s own Terrorist Surveillance Program, formed to intercept phone calls and emails between the U.S. and overseas without a judge’s approval when a link to al Qaeda is suspected.
The NSA’s enterprise involves a cluster of powerful intelligence-gathering programs, all of which sparked civil-liberties complaints when they came to light. They include a Federal Bureau of Investigation program to track telecommunications data once known as Carnivore, now called the Digital Collection System, and a U.S. arrangement with the world’s main international banking clearinghouse to track money movements.
The effort also ties into data from an ad-hoc collection of so-called “black programs” whose existence is undisclosed, the current and former officials say. Many of the programs in various agencies began years before the 9/11 attacks but have since been given greater reach. Among them, current and former intelligence officials say, is a longstanding Treasury Department program to collect individual financial data including wire transfers and credit-card transactions.
It isn’t clear how many of the different kinds of data are combined and analyzed together in one database by the NSA. An intelligence official said the agency’s work links to about a dozen anti terror programs in all.
A number of NSA employees have expressed concerns that the agency may be overstepping its authority by veering into domestic surveillance. And the constitutional question of whether the government can examine such a large array of information without violating an individual’s reasonable expectation of privacy “has never really been resolved,” said Suzanne Spaulding, a national-security lawyer who has worked for both parties on Capitol Hill.
NSA officials say the agency’s own investigations remain focused only on foreign threats, but it’s increasingly difficult to distinguish between domestic and international communications in a digital era, so they need to sweep up more information.
The Fourth Amendment
In response to the Sept. 11 attacks, then NSA-chief Gen. Michael Hayden has said he used his authority to expand the NSA’s capabilities under a 1981 executive order governing the agency. Another presidential order issued shortly after the attacks, the text of which is classified, opened the door for the NSA to incorporate more domestic data in its searches, one senior intelligence official said.

These articles lay out a pretty clear picture of what political opponents of the Bush administration are up against. Domestic spying will be used to bring down political opponents. I seriously doubt Spitzers dealings with an escort agency were what tipped em off. I believe they used spying powers to find out what he was up to and then took him down.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 05:16 AM
Response to Original message
1. Surprise, Surprise
They are spying on us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 05:17 AM
Response to Original message
2. It's not like he didn't know this shit was going off.. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
go west young man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Your right he should have known.
But the point is that all Dems need to know now. Of course corrupt Republicans have nothing to fear.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bluerum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 05:22 AM
Response to Original message
4. I am afraid that you are right. Spitzer has been on their short list for some time.
He screwed up but it's possible the feds did as well.

The thing is, since this is not a case of domestic terrorism etc., the prosecutor will be required to produce evidence. Spitzer is certainly not going down without a fight and if he can get the evidence thrown out he will. I can't imagine that the prosecutor could just produce a recording in federal court without being required to produce it's pedigree.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 05:32 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I'm afraid he WILL go down "without a fight"
I keep hearing the words "negotiation regarding the charges" bandied about. Perhaps they will give him a peek into the maw that is TIA.. It's probably like looking into the gates of hell.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 05:44 AM
Response to Original message
6. And then you read something like this...
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C07E4DA163BF937A25757C0A9629C8B63

snip-

Mr. Spitzer wants the commission to compel communications companies to build surveillance capabilities into cellphones that use new technology, and into the new Internet-based telephone services. That puts Mr. Spitzer, a Democrat who is said to be considering a run for governor, in step with the Bush administration's Justice Department and Federal Bureau of Investigation, which have similarly asked the commission for the change.

-snip


And it makes you wonder why he would set himself up.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 05:52 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Inflated ego. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Could be.
I'm just sick of people who don't want to realize he was complicit in all that they're uspet about.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
go west young man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. I'm not sure if your in reference to me or not but I am aware he was
complicit. This post is to bring attention to the larger issue of domestic spying. I think the political opposition would love to see all of us arguing over his "sex crime". Something else looms larger behind the picture that should be of real concern to all of us. That is dommestic spying on political opponents.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 06:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. It's not about the sex to me. It's about an arrogant man thinking he
is above the law. No, this post is for all of those who think there is something more than what there is. An SAR was filed on some odd transactions and I am sure even the Feds were stunned at what they found.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
screembloodymurder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #12
17. The point is, why were they investigating him?
Were the Republicans using government agencies to spy on Spitzer for political revenge?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #17
19. If he wasn't laundering money...
to take hookers across state lines they wouldn't have had any ammo for revenge, would they?

Hoisted on his own spy loving petard!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 06:59 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. Because an SAR was filed on odd financial transactions. It is standard
for banks to do that.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. Spitzer was all for it when he was AG...
anything to make his cases easier.

Ah, Karma!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 06:22 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. I hear ya! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
petgoat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #6
30. Why he would set himself up? What if it's a sting?
Man, what a fantasy. What if he made wire transfers and
phone calls to force the surveillance apparatus to reveal
itself?

Oh well, in some other universe, maybe.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Ummm...okay....but
I think you're going after the wrong girl here. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Indi Guy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 05:57 AM
Response to Original message
9. K & R...
This fits in with the pattern that the international billions of Wall Street assets infect our gov on all levels...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 06:21 AM
Response to Original message
11. A few years ago we finance a house deal at a mortgage co.,
Edited on Wed Mar-12-08 06:21 AM by midnight
and had to say we were not terrorists.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Indi Guy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 06:35 AM
Response to Reply #11
16. Ah... -- The old oath reincarnated...
Remember when we had to swear, "I am not a member of the Communist party."?

Looks like our leadership can't function on anything other than the Cold War footing (insert pariah group here _____ )
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Angela Shelley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 06:52 AM
Response to Reply #11
18. ... and how would you answer the question today?
:-)

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
screembloodymurder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 06:34 AM
Response to Original message
15. Here it is in Harpers.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BadgerLaw2010 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
21. You don't have a clue what CTR/SAR is, do you? They don't have anything to do with 9/11.
These ignorant posts are getting annoying.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. well that was highly informative. thanks.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BadgerLaw2010 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #22
26. CTR is when you move a $10K+ block of money. SAR is when you try to hide it by breaking it up.
Edited on Wed Mar-12-08 09:27 AM by BadgerLaw2010
Spitzer both broke up a $10K+ transaction that was going offshore, then tried to get his name removed from the wires.

That triggers a SAR because there is no legitimate reason to either try to break up transactions so they don't hit the $10K flag or hide your identity on bank wires, let alone do both. That rightly triggered an investigation.

This has been around since the 1980's and the birth of significant offshore money laundering. It has nothing to do with Bush, Gonzales or 9/11.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Thank you. Very concise.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ScreamingMeemie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 10:43 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Actually, it is the Bank Secrecy Act of 1970 that was posted in this
forum yesterday.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
23. this is why is should be illegal.....it will be used against political enemies
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. With all the secrecy and lack of oversight = selective
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Stranger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
24. I WONDER WHAT THEY HAVE ON THE NANCY DISASTER TO KEEP IMPEACHMENT OFF THE TABLE.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
troubleinwinter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-12-08 02:00 PM
Response to Original message
29. Evidence that SPITZER was the target, not Emperors. Also Dole "gives away" cash.
Wall Street Journal:

Capital One's North Fork unit disclosed Mr. Spitzer's transfers amid federal requirements to apply "enhanced due diligence" to high-risk clients, including so-called politically exposed persons.
......

U.S. politicians also are sometimes considered PEPs. In 2004, Riggs filed suspicious-activity reports flagging Sen. Bob Dole's regular withdrawals of as much as $8,000 in cash from his account. No wrongdoing was alleged. Mr. Dole's staff estimated he withdrew roughly $12,000 a month in cash from Riggs until the practice became known. In a 2004 interview, the former Republican presidential candidate said he simply prefers using cash and sometimes gives money away.


In the current case, agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation secured a warrant in October for a wiretap to intercept communications between Emperors Club employees and clients.
.......

It isn't clear why the FBI sought the wiretap warrant. Federal prostitution probes are exceedingly rare, lawyers say, except in cases involving organized-crime leaders or child abuse. Federal wiretaps are seldom used to make these cases; search warrants usually suffice. Wiretap applications generally are reserved for serious crimes, such as drug, weapons and terrorism-related cases. There typically are no more than 1,400 wiretaps in use nationwide at any given time. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120523741167127071.html


Bob Dole just "gives money away"?! At least he's smart enough to use CASH for his bribery or hookers or whatever he does with $12,000 per month.

This sentence "Federal wiretaps are seldom used to make these cases; search warrants usually suffice. Wiretap applications generally are reserved for serious crimes, such as drug, weapons and terrorism-related cases" certainly makes it appear that Spitzer was THE target, not the Emperors Club.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed Apr 24th 2024, 06:17 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC