Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

The timeless brilliance of Howard Zinn:

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 09:07 PM
Original message
The timeless brilliance of Howard Zinn:
Capitalism has always been a failure for the lower classes. It is now beginning to fail for the middle classes.

:patriot:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Mojambo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. My hero. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kid a Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
2. !
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mac2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
3. Howard Zinn tells it as it is.
It is beyond even the middle class now...doctors, lawyers, engineers are highly educated and make good money. They are upper middle class. They are being hit and I hear them complaining all the time.

Kerry's book about labor in this country said until the employment and quality of life issue hits the professionals little will be done to change it. It has and I don't see it.

OR it has and they are stealing the voices and votes.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KaseyM Donating Member (13 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. A People's History
You can read about his book in Wikipedia.

I only recently heard about this book.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mac2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I read it a long time ago and passed it on to my family.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Viva_La_Revolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-17-08 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Welcome! I'm on my 3rd copy...
people keep 'borrowing' it! It's amazing what they failed to teach us in school. :mad:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ConsAreLiars Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:34 AM
Response to Original message
7. There's a lot of Howard Zinn material available at
Edited on Tue Mar-18-08 12:35 AM by ConsAreLiars
http://onebigtorrent.org/search.php?search=zinn&cat=0&orderby=0&ordertype=DESC&dead=ok

Books, videos, audiobooks, and so on. http://onebigtorrent.org/ is a very useful progressive resource. Needs a bittorrent client (a file sharing program) to access them, but worth the trouble. There are several, but I use this one http://www.utorrent.com/ and it works fine.

FWIW, I first encountered Zinn during Vietnam. My first impression, a great talker with great insights. I later learned first-hand that he also walked the walk, even putting his neck on the line.

(edit typo)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
8. capitalism is cancer
unregulated, it metastasizes.


I have news for you. It is now failing for many in the wealthy class. The middle class is already dead.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #8
14. Put Away the Flags, By Howard Zinn
Put Away the Flags
by Howard Zinn

On this July 4, we would do well to renounce nationalism and all its symbols: its flags, its pledges of allegiance, its anthems, its insistence in song that God must single out America to be blessed.

Is not nationalism -- that devotion to a flag, an anthem, a boundary so fierce it engenders mass murder -- one of the great evils of our time, along with racism, along with religious hatred?

These ways of thinking -- cultivated, nurtured, indoctrinated from childhood on -- have been useful to those in power, and deadly for those out of power.


National spirit can be benign in a country that is small and lacking both in military power and a hunger for expansion (Switzerland, Norway, Costa Rica and many more). But in a nation like ours -- huge, possessing thousands of weapons of mass destruction -- what might have been harmless pride becomes an arrogant nationalism dangerous to others and to ourselves.

Our citizenry has been brought up to see our nation as different from others, an exception in the world, uniquely moral, expanding into other lands in order to bring civilization, liberty, democracy.

That self-deception started early.

When the first English settlers moved into Indian land in Massachusetts Bay and were resisted, the violence escalated into war with the Pequot Indians. The killing of Indians was seen as approved by God, the taking of land as commanded by the Bible. The Puritans cited one of the Psalms, which says: "Ask of me, and I shall give thee, the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the Earth for thy possession."

When the English set fire to a Pequot village and massacred men, women and children, the Puritan theologian Cotton Mather said: "It was supposed that no less than 600 Pequot souls were brought down to hell that day."

On the eve of the Mexican War, an American journalist declared it our "Manifest Destiny to overspread the continent allotted by Providence." After the invasion of Mexico began, The New York Herald announced: "We believe it is a part of our destiny to civilize that beautiful country."

It was always supposedly for benign purposes that our country went to war.

We invaded Cuba in 1898 to liberate the Cubans, and went to war in the Philippines shortly after, as President McKinley put it, "to civilize and Christianize" the Filipino people.

As our armies were committing massacres in the Philippines (at least 600,000 Filipinos died in a few years of conflict), Elihu Root, our secretary of war, was saying: "The American soldier is different from all other soldiers of all other countries since the war began. He is the advance guard of liberty and justice, of law and order, and of peace and happiness."

We see in Iraq that our soldiers are not different. They have, perhaps against their better nature, killed thousands of Iraq civilians. And some soldiers have shown themselves capable of brutality, of torture.

Yet they are victims, too, of our government's lies.

How many times have we heard President Bush and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld tell the troops that if they die, if they return without arms or legs, or blinded, it is for "liberty," for "democracy"?

One of the effects of nationalist thinking is a loss of a sense of proportion. The killing of 2,300 people at Pearl Harbor becomes the justification for killing 240,000 in Hiroshima and Nagasaki. The killing of 3,000 people on Sept. 11 becomes the justification for killing tens of thousands of people in Afghanistan and Iraq.

And nationalism is given a special virulence when it is said to be blessed by Providence. Today we have a president, invading two countries in four years, who announced on the campaign trail last year that God speaks through him.

We need to refute the idea that our nation is different from, morally superior to, the other imperial powers of world history.

We need to assert our allegiance to the human race, and not to any one nation.

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0703-29.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mac2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #8
15. Capitalism should work but huge monopolies corrupt it.
Edited on Tue Mar-18-08 08:23 AM by mac2
It's the same problem we had at the turn of the last century with corruption and monopolies (Robber and Oil Barons). Corporate monoplies are illegal in our democracy but they are allowed under GW Bush,Inc.(at least since the revolution when we fought against the British ones).

Democracy can not exist without laws and enforcement of violations against it. Right now we are lawless without any Constitution and Bill of Rights. Our legal institutions corrupted and manipulated to protect them. Chaos and lawlessness rule. They do as they please.

Our White House is ruled by huge monopolistic International corporate leaders and goals. The elite few prosper (bankers, the wealthy, royals, etc.) and the rest are slaves. GW Bush, Inc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 08:39 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. capitalism systematically breeds its own excesses
no government is long-lived or influential enough to fight the inexorable corruption that capitalism fosters.

regulations are finite little thumbs in ahuge dike that is straining to hold back monopolies, frenzied races to the bottom in wages and quality, executive greed and corruption, influence over the political system . . .


Capitalism is cancer and needs to be caught early and eliminated early. When we fail to do this, we simply forestall eventual economic collapse.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mac2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 08:41 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Don't agree...lawlessness is the breakdown of democracy.
Edited on Tue Mar-18-08 08:46 AM by mac2
The most successful type of modern government has been a Socialistic Democracy. It was also very honest and responsible. They also allowed capitalism but with tariffs, regulations, and over sight, etc.

We humans can do anything we want with our government without calling it some negative name.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. regulate capitalism to the point it is barely even capitalism
and you can have success for a few tens of years.

capitalism is the corrosive that burns the holes in social structure where lawlessness creeps in.

freedom and capitalism can exist only as long as no capitalist is ruthless, cunning, powerful or smart enough to undermine and eventually overthrow democracy. in the presence of capitalism, the process is as inevitable as the erosion of the Grand Canyon.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pastiche423 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
9. Kick for a brilliant man
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 02:09 AM
Response to Original message
10. K & R # 5
Off to The Greatest with you.
:kick: & R


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Recursion Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 02:25 AM
Response to Original message
11. Kicking for Terrier pride
BU, home of King, Wiesel, and Zinn.

And several thousand whiny, coked-out sorority girls who wear sunglasses the size of their face and identical Uggs. But it's worth it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
12. horsehsit
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
13.  “There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people.”
“Americans have been taught that their nation is civilized and humane. But, too often, U.S. actions have been uncivilized and inhumane.”

“If those in charge of our society - politicians, corporate executives, and owners of press and television - can dominate our ideas, they will be secure in their power. They will not need soldiers patrolling the streets. We will control ourselves.”

“I'm worried that students will take their obedient place in society and look to become successful cogs in the wheel - let the wheel spin them around as it wants without taking a look at what they're doing. I'm concerned that students not become passive acceptors of the official doctrine that's handed down to them from the White House, the media, textbooks, teachers and preachers.”

I'll be posting some Zinn in the political video forum.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
mac2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-18-08 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. To keep our democracy we have to be on constant watch.
Edited on Tue Mar-18-08 08:48 AM by mac2
The few would steal it for themselves. Power somehow makes them think it's OK to kill since other Presidents did it. This has to stop. Our media needs to be cleaned out just like Congress.

We aren't the first people to have our freedoms and quality of life destroyed by greed and war. Keeping the peace and prosperity requires work by all of us. I think any country with leaders who lie and steal ends up in tryanny. It is bound to fail. Label it whatever you want...democratic, socialistic, monarcy, communist...etc. If the people aren't doing well then it is wrong.

READ: Lying for Empire. It is a book about all the Presidential lies to bring us to war for their own power and wealth.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/results.asp?TTL=Lying+for+Empire&ATH=&WRD=&PRC=&FMT=&AGE=&CID=
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 25th 2024, 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC