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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 04:55 PM
Original message
The Assault on Public Integrity Continues = Debra Yang, Ted Olson, the Millions $$, and Rep. Lewis
The Assault on Public Integrity Continues
Scott Horton - March 19, 2008 - http://harpers.org/archive/2008/03/hbc-90002672


One of the more suspicious chapters in the U.S. attorneys scandal relates to the U.S. Attorney in Los Angeles, Debra Yang. She was engaged in a probe into corruption allegations surrounding Congressman Jerry Lewis of Redlands, California. There is evidence to suggest that Karl Rove and Harriet Miers decided that Yang’s examination of corruption allegations surrounding Lewis were uncomfortable, and that they wanted her out, presumably to protect Lewis.

For her part, Yang denies any connection between her departure and that of other U.S. Attorneys. But it is interesting that she left to work with Theodore Olson, once President Bush’s solicitor general, for a seven-figure paycheck as a partner at the Los Angeles powerhouse law firm Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher. And that Jerry Lewis had hired high-priced counsel defending Yang’s probe–namely Ted Olson at Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher.

Yang was replaced by Thomas P. O’Brian, a successor far more congenial to the White House. O’Brian quickly decided that the probe into Representative Lewis wasn’t really very important. In fact he seems to have done just about everything within his power to shut it down. As the Los Angeles Daily Journal reported back in September, the new U.S. attorney decided to terminate the 25-year veteran prosecutor who was heading up the examination into Lewis. As the San Bernardino County Sun asked, was this just another of those amazing coincidences that kept getting in the way of the investigation of Lewis, or was a pattern of politically driven maneuvers to block the investigation not now evident? The Sun adopted the latter view, as has just about every person who has independently examined the curious conduct of the Los Angeles U.S. attorney’s office.

That was September, and in the interim we learn that, just as forecast, the air has been drained from the tires of the Lewis probe. Yet another blow came this week ....
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Collect the whole set of coincidences. Trifectas all around.
As the San Bernardino County Sun asked, was this just another of those amazing coincidences that kept getting in the way of the investigation of Lewis, or was a pattern of politically driven maneuvers to block the investigation not now evident? The Sun adopted the latter view, as has just about every person who has independently examined the curious conduct of the Los Angeles U.S. attorney’s office.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 07:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. And it repeats with other investigations, Abramoff, ..... if they are Rs!
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-19-08 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
3. Mr Horton seems to be working through all of the fired USAs
Good for him. Maybe I should send him my collection.

-Hoot
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. The USA firings are a crime scene!
Send him what you have. He seemingly followed up on what I sent him on Mukasey.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. The worse crime scene is the ones who weren't fired.
The ones who stayed to do the bidding of the Criminal in Chief.

-Hoot
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Here's one who didn't get fired:
US Attorney Interference and the '04 OH Election

Posted by mod mom in General Discussion: Primaries

Mon Mar 26th 2007, 10:11 AM

We know the GOP went to all lengths to suppress the Dem vote in Ohio. How far were they willing to go? Were they willing to use justice appointees to postpone a major story on GOP corruption? We are hearing stories of USAs who were fired for NOT using their powers to help win elections, but not the reports to those USAs who were willing. I believe their needs to be some subpoenas issues regarding the postponement of the Noe (Coingate) GOP Scandal.

Seems like Rep Conyers and Rep Kaptur had concerns about a Ohio US Attorney. In a letter in August of 2005 (link at bottom) to AG Gonzales, they write this regarding the Noe investigation:

OF SPECIAL INTEREST NOTE THESE PARAGRAPHS:

"As a matter of fact, the numerous delays in the investigation have already raised the specter of political favoritism. From documents that have been made public, we know that the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Ohio, Gregory White, who is leading the federal investigation, had prior knowledge of the losses before the 2004 presidential election, as did the Governor of Ohio and other officials.16 At the same time, no investigation was initiated on these matters until spring of this year.17

The fact pattern present in this case, particularly with the new disclosure that the lead federal prosecutor may well have gotten his job as a result of a political appeal by Governor Taft's office to Karl Rove, make it abundantly clear that a special counsel is necessitated. We urge you to make such a designation immediately to help restore public trust in this very important investigation. "

That letter came after a early July 2005 letter from Rep Conyers to OH US Attorney Gregory White:

Dear Mr. White,

I write to you because of my very serious concerns regarding the manner in which your office has handled the investigation into alleged federal campaign finance violations involving the 2004 Bush-Cheney campaign and other Republican candidates. In particular, I am concerned that your office delayed investigating this very serious matter until after the 2004 presidential election and as a result prejudiced the government's ability to pursue justice in the case.

It is my understanding that on October 13, 2004, the U.S. Attorney's Office for the Northern District of Ohio was provided evidence from Lucas County grand jury proceedings suggesting extensive federal campaign finance violations took place involving Tom Noe, the leading Bush-Cheney campaign official in the region for the 2004 campaign. On the same day, it was reported that your office shared this information with the Justice Department's Public Integrity Section, and that later that day, the Section e-mailed to the U.S. Attorney's Office authorization to investigate the matter. Two days later, on October 15, it was reported that the local prosecutor's office gave their evidence to the FBI.

It has been further reported by the Toledo Blade that you began your investigation into the case around early March 2005. Subsequent news reports stated that federal grand jury proceedings occurred on June 1, 2005, well after the presidential election and approximately seven-and-one half months after the Department was notified of the potential violations.

If this series of events is accurate, the delay may have violated federal guidelines as well as bar rules of professional conduct requiring impartiality and promptness in criminal investigations. First, federal law directs that each United States Attorney "shall prosecute for all offenses against the United States." The U.S. Attorneys' Manual reiterates this requirement and further explains that "their professional abilities and the need for their impartiality in administering justice directly affect the public's perception of federal law enforcement." While I am well aware that the principle of prosecutorial discretion grants your office latitude in determining which cases warrant prosecution, that doctrine in no way permits political considerations—including the fact of a high profile and closely contested election—to intrude on the prosecutorial process....

-snip
http://www.larouchepub.com/other/govt_docs...


Lucas County, OH Prosecutor Julia Bates presented US Attorney Gregory White with evidence on Tom Noe on October 13, 2004 (22 days before the November 2, 2004 Presidential Election). Ms Bates, who is a Democrat, was up for re-election (although un-opposed in 2004). Is it coincidental that the Lucas County Democratic Headquarters was burglarized on October 11, 2004?


Article published Tuesday, October 12, 2004

Lucas County Democratic headquarters burglarized

BLADE STAFF

The Lucas County Democratic Headquarters was burglarized overnight, and three computers, including the party’s main system, were stolen.

The computers contained highly sensitive information, including the party’s financial information, names and personal phone numbers of hundreds of party members, candidates, and volunteers.

The computers also stored e-mails from candidates that included discussion about campaign strategy.

A second computer, belonging to an attorney-volunteer working to ensure voters’ rights, also was taken, officials said. The headquarters on 1817 Madison Avenue does have an alarm system that volunteers believed they set late Monday when they left.

However, it apparently wasn’t tripped during the night. Workers arriving about 7:30 a.m. yesterday noticed the back window had been shattered and called police.
http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a...



Finally, is there a connection with this interference and the fact that Tom Noe's wife Bernadette Noe was Chair of the Lucas County BOE, (Lucas County is a Democratic stronghold) a county that incurred so many issues that OH SOS was forced to issue this report on the county after the '04 election:


OH SOS Investigation of the Lucas County BOE after 2004 Election

includes the fact that REPUBLICAN VOLUNTEERS were allowed UNSUPERVISED ACCESS to UNSECURED BALLOTS prior to the election, as well as this list:

*failure to maintain ballot security
*Inability to implement and maintain a trackable system for voter ballot reconciliation .
*failure to prepare and develop a plan for the processing of the voluminous amount of voter registration forms received.
*issuance and acceptance of incorrect absentee ballot forms.
*manipulation of the process involving the 3% recount.
*disjointed implementation of the Directive regarding the removal of Nader and Camejo from the ballot .
*failure to properly issue hospital ballots in accordance with statutory requirements.
*failure to maintain the security of poll books during the official canvass
*failure to examine campaign finance reports in a timely manner.
*failure to guard and protect public documents.
*failure to guard and protect public documents ....etc.


-One-half of the ballots printed and used in the 2004 general election in Lucas county were stored in an open space on the fhird floor of the county warehouse with no security measures in place.
SOURCE: SOS Investigation on Lucas County BOE page 4



-Live ballots were delivered to polling locations a week in advance of the election. Although the ballots were retrieved, one board employee who was assigned to the warehouse informed the SOS staff that he did not believe all the ballots were successfully retrieved.
SOURCE; SOS Investigation, page 5



-Lucas County BOE failed to record or retrieve ballot stub numbers of absentee voters’ ballots as required by statute OH Revised Code 3505.23. It was reported by an elector that her mother had received not one, but three absentee voter ballots. there was no way to determine if similar incidents occurred and if so how many.
SOURCE: SOS Investigation, page 7




-October 4, 2004 was filing deadline for new voter registrations. At that point there were approximately 20,000 unprocessed voter registration applications with less than a month before the election. One mail tray containing 4,500-7,000 (estimates vary) unprocessed “Project Voter” registrations were discovered on or about October 18,2004.
SOURCE: SOS Investigation pg 10

***Of interest here is information obtained from the SOS website entitled ElectionsVoter/results 2003 and 2004 which show the # of registered voters number change from ‘03-’04 was 11,947 in Lucas County: reg voters 2003 in Lucas=288,190 ; registered voter in 2004=300,137.



-In late September or early October an employee of the Ohio Republican Party contacted Sam Thurber (*involved with politician wife Maggie Thurber in Noe scandal.) wanting to inspect and have copies made of all recently returned voter registrations, Ohio Republican Party offered to furnish volunteers to assist with copying postcards. No one at the Lucas County BOE can confirm that anyone was assigned to supervise Republican volunteers. On their second day of copying, a BOE employee, Jennifer Bernath, Democratic Booth Official) saw republican party volunteers peeling off the yellow return stickers applied by the post office. (Violation of RC 149.43 (B) (I) , and agruably a violation of 149.351.
SOURCE: SOS Investigation, pgs 18-19



-The Swanton 3 poll book turned up missing and has never been recovered.
SOURCE: SOS Investigation pg 16





Conyers-Kaptur seek special counsel for Noe probe
by John Conyers, Jr. and Marcy Kaptur
August 4, 2005

The Honorable Alberto Gonzales
Attorney General of the United States
U.S. Department of Justice
950 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20530


Dear Mr. Attorney General:

We write to request that the U.S. Department of Justice immediately appoint an outside special counsel to assume the Department's investigation into alleged illegal contributions by Mr. Thomas Noe to federal and state political campaigns. In light of recent disclosures that Governor Taft's office, which is a subject of the investigation, made a direct political appeal to Karl Rove for Gregory White, the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Ohio to receive his job, there is little doubt that this is a textbook case for the appointment of a special counsel.

We understand and appreciate that it is not unusual for local and state politicians to use their influence to obtain presidential appointments for their friends and political allies; however, it is unusual, and indeed inappropriate and violative of your regulations, for prosecutors who obtain such appointments to review the conduct of those same individuals and their friends. Regardless of the actual or perceived sincerity or motives of any particular prosecutor, to ask an individual who owes his job to certain politicians to pursue legal actions against those same politicians places the prosecutor in an untenable situation. Whatever actions he or she takes will inevitably be subject to questions of favoritism and bias, calling the entire prosecution into question. This is why the special counsel regulations were promulgated to begin with.

At the outset, we should note that Mr. Noe, who chaired the 2004 Bush-Cheney Campaign for northwest Ohio and managed the State of Ohio's Bureau of Workers Compensation Fund, appears to have been involved in the diversion of millions of dollars from the Fund to unsecured investments in coins and other collectibles.1 Over $12 million in coins purportedly owned by the State of Ohio, and perhaps other collectibles, are missing, including two coins valued at $300,000.2 Further, the State of Ohio now has claimed losses of $215 million dollars as a result of unsecured hedge fund transactions involving MDL Enterprises of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.3 It appears very likely that political contributions to both federal and state officeholders and candidates were channeled from these state funds.4 Mr. Noe himself was a Bush Pioneer who raise over $100,000 for the Bush campaign.5 Many political officials have recognized the impropriety of these contributions and thus have returned them, including Ohio Governor Bob Taft and California Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger.6

As you are no doubt aware, under the Department's regulations, you are required to appoint a special counsel when (1) a "criminal investigation of a person or matter is warranted," (2) the investigation "by a United States Attorney's Office or litigating Division of the Department of Justice would present a conflict of interest for the Department," and (3) "it would be in the public interest to appoint an outside Special Counsel to assume responsibility for the matter."7 There is little doubt that all three factors are met in the Noe case.

In this situation, a criminal investigation is clearly warranted and, as a matter of fact, the Department has initiated one. A grand jury has been seated in the Northern District of Ohio and has been deposing dozens of individuals who may have been involved in these illegal activities. Moreover, the Federal Bureau of Investigation has been seizing computers, files, and assets of some of the individuals involved.

Second, there are myriad conflicts of interest for Department prosecutors to continue the investigation on their own. To begin with, the United States Attorneys investigating the case, those for the Northern and Southern Districts for Ohio, both of whom were appointed by President Bush, would be in the untenable position of investigating a leading official of the 2004 Bush-Cheney campaign. We now know that Mr. White has very close connections with the Governor's office and the White House. In fact, recently released records show that Mr. White sought Governor Taft's help in obtaining the U.S. Attorney position.8 The Governor's Chief of Staff, Brian Hicks, apparently communicated with Karl Rove, then a counselor to the President, about Mr. White's interest in the post.9 In an e-mail to Mr. Hicks, Mr. White wrote, "'I believe that my record speaks for itself, and I doubt there are too many county chairs for the Bush campaign that worked harder.'"10 This is the same Brian Hicks who was convicted along with his executive assistant, Cherie Carroll for accepting gifts from Mr. Noe in violation of state law (both are now lobbyists).11 In assessing this prong of the regulations, the test for appointment of a special counsel does not rest on the prosecutor in question's perceived reputation or the characterization of his reputation by others, regardless of their political stripe; it is based on whether the conflict of interest exists at all, which is clearly the case in the present instance.

In addition, on October 1, 2004, one month before the election, the Bush administration appointed Mr. Noe as Chair of the U.S. Mint's Citizens Coinage Advisory Committee.12 Federal legislation was passed for the specific purpose of allowing Mr. Noe's appointment.13 That legislation moved through the U.S. House Committee on Financial Services, before which Mr. Noe had testified14 and to whose Members Mr. Noe had contributed financially. Mr. Noe resigned the U.S. Mint position on May 26, 2005,15 after the circumstances of the appointment were publicized in the media.

Finally, the appointment of a special counsel for this matter would undoubtedly serve the public interest. The allegations of improper conduct reach to the highest-possible levels of federal and state government and pertain to a serious corruption of our democratic system of government. The appointment of a special counsel would demonstrate to the American public the Department's understanding of the importance of and need for impartiality in this case. Also, an investigation by a single special counsel would not be subject to any jurisdictional issues that may be present under the current scenario of two prosecutors. There is little question that high-ranking political officials nationally and at the state level were knowledgeable and involved in these activities. Many questions must be addressed involving the link between alleged illegal campaign contributions, diversion of State funds, their relation to 2005 elections, as well as the federal appointment of Mr. Noe to a federal advisory committee.

As a matter of fact, the numerous delays in the investigation have already raised the specter of political favoritism. From documents that have been made public, we know that the U.S. Attorney for the Northern District of Ohio, Gregory White, who is leading the federal investigation, had prior knowledge of the losses before the 2004 presidential election, as did the Governor of Ohio and other officials.16 At the same time, no investigation was initiated on these matters until spring of this year.17

The fact pattern present in this case, particularly with the new disclosure that the lead federal prosecutor may well have gotten his job as a result of a political appeal by Governor Taft's office to Karl Rove, make it abundantly clear that a special counsel is necessitated. We urge you to make such a designation immediately to help restore public trust in this very important investigation.

We look forward to promptly hearing whether you will appoint a special counsel and, if not, the reason for your decision. Please reply through the House Judiciary Committee Minority Office, 2142 Rayburn House Office Building, Washington, DC 20515 (tel 202-225-6504; fax: 202-225-4423).

Sincerely,
John Conyers, Jr.
Marcy Kaptur

http://www.freepress.org/departments/displ...
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. The No OH USA office has yet to respond to an offer of evidence of voting irregularities
in Ohio 2004. Just like the FBI!

I'm sure they are looking into it and will call any minute. :rofl:
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 11:51 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. There was another stunner in Mi or maybe Wi
Somewhere up there, I wish I could find the bookmark. The appeals judge summarily dismissed all charges on the initial review of the case with a statement that was basically WTF? Wish I could remember more detail.

Then there's the Siegelman case in Alabama.

-Hoot
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 12:40 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. The Noe coins got more coverage, but this was the bigger dollar loss
Further, the State of Ohio now has claimed losses of $215 million dollars as a result of unsecured hedge fund transactions involving MDL Enterprises of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania....and connected to losses of pensions funds in Pennsylvania as well. I don't know if anything came of it. As far as I know this is legal crime. :eyes:
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crimsonblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. I have a simple solution-- make vote fraud a Capital Offense..
Fair and transparent elections are the single most important process this country undertakes, so we must make vote fraud a capital offense so as to completely deter it. I doubt that low level cronies would be willing to steal elections if it meant their life. I think the use of the death penalty as deterrence is completely reasonable-- similar to the Mutually Assured Destruction policy of the Cold War. Anybody that commits vote fruad has committed treason against this country, and treason is definitely punishable by death. If we cannot be confident in our elections, then the rest of Democracy is meaningless and a sham.
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Differences between Voter Fraud & Election Fraud.
I advise you to know the difference before DUer Faye spots this ;)

Voter fraud is the false premise put forward b the GOP that the Dems were having dead folks and illegal voters vote. Studies have shown this not to be a problem

Election fraud is what occurred. Dirty tricks, purges, disenfranchising, misallocation of machines, suppression of the vote, inaccurate result due to vote flipping etc
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crimsonblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Thanks.. I guess what I meant was election fraud...
Sorry bout that... I'm a bit distracted by the tourney today... Go Hawks!
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 10:53 AM
Response to Original message
6. american justice has a funny way of revolving round the $$$
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 11:08 AM
Response to Original message
9. Background on Yang and her rise to receive a 1.5 mill salary w Ted Olson:
October 17, 2006, 8:40 am
L.A. U.S. Attorney Debra Yang Resigns; Will Join Gibson Dunn
Posted by Peter Lattman
In the latest example of a government prosecutor jumping to a high-paying law firm, Debra Wong Yang, the U.S. Attorney in Los Angeles, has resigned and will join Gibson, Dunn & Crutcher as a partner.

During Yang’s tenure, her office has spearheaded several high-profile corporate-crime cases, including the indictment of Milberg Weiss and a $615 million settlement with Boeing Co. earlier this year. Yang, 47, serves on the DOJ’s Corporate Fraud Task Force, an interagency group created in July 2002 amid white-collar scandals.

Prior to her appointment by President Bush in 2002, Yang was a California state judge. Before that she was an assistant U.S. attorney. A 1985 graduate of Boston College Law School, she also worked in private practice.

“When I worked on the big cases here in the office, I really enjoyed the practice when it not only involved legal issues but also strategic decision making,” said Yang, who will leave her post on Nov. 10 and join Gibson Dunn at the beginning of the year. “Working on those complex cases made me want to go out and practice law again.”

At Gibson Dunn, which has more than 800 lawyers, she will be based in the firm’s Los Angeles’s office and co-chair its “crisis-management” group along with Theodore Olson, the former Solicitor General, and Randy Mastro, a former federal prosecutor and deputy to former New York mayor Rudolph Giuliani. Members of that group are currently handling internal investigations for companies ensnared by the stock-options backdating scandal. U.S. attorneys and judges are hot properties for law firms looking to win business from companies conducting internal investigations or in need of hiring a government-mandated corporate monitor.

-snip

http://blogs.wsj.com/law/2006/10/17/los-angeles-us-attorney-debra-yang-resigns-will-join-gibson-dunn/



Did Debra Wong Yang get $1.5 million to stop investigating Rep. Jerry Lewis?
by james risser

Fri Apr 13, 2007 at 08:30:48 AM PDT

-snip


Here is her tangled story, an iceberg-tip view of the Rep. Jerry Lewis scandals which she was investigating as a US Attorney, and the treacherous firm of Bush Crime Family consigliere in Los Angeles who serve as Defense Council for Rep. Lewis, the same firm where Yang currently receives her blood-money.

We will soon enough get to her official bio from the firm that paid her $1.5 million, Gibson Dunn in Los Angeles--the same firm that, coincidentally enough, was defending Rep. Jerry Lewis of California. Let me say that again so there is no confusion: She was in charge of the case against Rep. Jerry Lewis. He is being defended against these charges by Gibson Dunn in Los Angeles. Ms Yang received $1.5 million from the firm defending Rep. Lewis, Gibson Dunn, to leave the Justice Department where she was prosecuting Rep. Lewis. And, remarkably, this is the second time that Jerry Lewis has hired a former US Attorney to handle his defense. Thanks to the fine work of TPMuckracker from June 2006, we find that Lewis did the same thing with Robert Bonner, a member in good-standing of the Bush Crime Family since Daddy Bush made Bonner his Drug Czar in the 1990s through the present!

-snip
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/4/13/113048/369

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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Yeah, I did a little thing on that...
In this thread here.

-Hoot
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mod mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-20-08 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. that's a book mark-thanks hootinholler!
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-25-08 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Thanks for that. REC following the link.
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-22-08 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #9
17. DOJ’s "Corporate Fraud Task Force" is old history.
One of the other things Bushco changed, along with the non-compliant USAs, was the option
of USAs to indict corporate crimes. That decision was removed the McNulty Memo, just after the firings.

How many indictments were blocked with that move?

Now, any such decision is made by the AAG, and USAs no longer have the discretion!
Lam charged corporate fraud in medicare billing, but now the USAs cannot do that!
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
19. visibility kick
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