So the passport spying is about spying, not the passport bit?

[uppityperson]

I understand that it is a security breach and of course it should be dealt with. I understand that it is spying on a Democratic presidential candidate and they're looking for stuff to use against him. I am a strong believer in privacy and all the spying on us stuff really bothers me.

BUT, I don't get why this is something to be more upset with than any of the other BS they've pulled, PATRIOT act or just general spying on their own.

I assumed that where I travel is common knowledge amongst the passport places, and the same for others. I know they are looking for stuff to use against him, but thought where someone traveled, using a passport, was not in secure files.

Could someone explain it to me like I'm stupid, using small words, because I am missing something here and would appreciate having my lack of understanding cleared up. Thank you.

And no, don't call me stupid. (edited to explain better)

[DainBramaged]

1. To see where and when he traveled outside of the US

to use against him.

[tachyon]

5. How does that work? Do you believe he went to prohibited lands and

consorted with terrorists...in secret?
:eyes:

[roguevalley]

24. innuendo. that's all it takes. and he has traveled since a child.

[DainBramaged]

30. Absolutely, look at that poison email going around about him

[tachyon]

49. If innuendo is all it takes, why do they need passport records?

Don't you see how idiotically hysterical this is? I mean because of what the records may or may not CONTAIN,
NOT repeat NOT repeat NOT repeat NOT repeat NOT how they were obtained. Never had so damn much trouble with simple English.

[DainBramaged]

29. No, but SOMEONE could construe he did from his passport records

This is not rocket science. The records also show where he might have applied for visas too and was turned down (fact finding missions for the senate, etc).

[tachyon]

50. Yeah, I keep forgetting how often Senators have visa applications denied.

good grief

[uppityperson]

I assumed that this was common knowledge. You mean where I travel is secret?

Serious question here. I assumed that where I travel is common knowledge amongst the passport places, and the same for others. I know they are looking for stuff to use against him, but thought where someone traveled, using a passport, was not in secure files. It seems I was wrong.

[thunder rising]

18. personal information collected by the government is CONFIDENTIAL and to be secured.

[uppityperson]

38. I was assuming the info was what was given when applying for passport

What info I gave when I applied was basic stuff, well known.

I assumed that where I travel is common knowledge amongst the passport places, and the same for others. I know they are looking for stuff to use against him, but thought where someone traveled, using a passport, was not in secure files.

I have had it pointed out that we don't know what was in the files, and I have probably assumed wrongly.

[TheWraith]

19. Passport data is supposed to be highly confidential.

Both because it contains private data, and for identity theft reasons.

[uppityperson]

31. Thank you, really, very much for that answer as to what it is about passport info.

COATH, I am tired of asking for clarification and getting attacked. (sorry, had to rant). There is personal info in passport files? I didn't know that, didn't remember giving it out when I got mine. Thank you.

[TheWraith]

42. Some of the newer ones include biometric data like fingerprints.

Also where you've traveled, which is considered private, and I'd assume that passport files also likely include data like Social Security number.

[TwilightGardener]

2. Because on three seperate occasions, unauthorized personnel

were able to dig up private and confidential dirt on a candidate, and that candidate was not notified, and those employees were let go, under no investigation. Sorry if you don't understand the import of this.

[uppityperson]

Yes weiner, I do understand that. Spying is wrong yet they do it all the time.

I was wondering about passports and spying as that seems odd. I assumed that where I travel is common knowledge amongst the passport places, and the same for others. I know they are looking for stuff to use against him, but thought where someone traveled, using a passport, was not in secure files.

[tachyon]

16. So he has been doing dirty things that are only documented in his passport files.

Got it.

[TwilightGardener]

17. I figured you out. Goodbye.

[tachyon]

26. You don't much like it when your paranoia is pointed out, do you?

:eyes:

[DainBramaged]

54. I believe that dirty things, as you put it, aren't mutually exclusive

to others.

I was going to put you on ignore, then wait a few weeks to see if you get a granite cookie and just delete you, but I'll wait. I'm a patient person.:smoke:

[tachyon]

3. I am wondering that very thing too. It's almost as if some of the people here think

there is some shattering-secret revelatory information in the file that "swift-boaters" can use to derail Obama's campaign.

[TwilightGardener]

4. Well, his childhood in Indonesia, for one thing.

[tachyon]

10. So what? It's well known, public information. There sure as hell can't be more personal

information in a passport file than in military records...:eyes:

[TwilightGardener]

13. What part of "privacy" do you not understand? A politically motivated

person could use info to try to tie him to terrorist/Muslim activity when he was in Somalia, for example, since the Muslim rumor was so rampant.

[tachyon]

21. Well if he WAS tied to terrorist activity, we'd have a right to know.

Or don't you think so?

[DainBramaged]

34. So you are here to tell us he MAY be a terrorist?

Or you are TRYING to spread the seed of discontent about him?

Ain't gonna fucking happen.

:grr:

[tachyon]

48. You don't read very well, do you?

:eyes:

[DainBramaged]

53. I read VERY well, especially between the lines

I raise you two eyes :eyes: :eyes: to your one.

[Bonobo]

6. I'll try.

People in power use power to find secret information about those who threaten their power.

That way they can keep power.

And destroy anyone who threatens them.

America has the right to elect a new president every 4 years WITHOUT interference from the current administration.

Okay?

[uppityperson]

15. No, not ok. Spying on each other is expected and I really hate it, think it shouldn't be.

Of course they're spying. What I don't get is the passport bit since I assumed that where I travel is common knowledge amongst the passport places, and the same for others. I know they are looking for stuff to use against him, but thought where someone traveled, using a passport, was not in secure files.

[Bonobo]

27. Neither you nor I know what is in the "passport file", I think.

I assume it is more than just what countries you visited. For example, any contact with consulates, embassies while abroad would be in there, Including applications for anything from work permits, to study, to who knows what.

Perhaps even info from the foreign country's state dept. equivalent. Who knows. I don't. You probably don't either.

[uppityperson]

33. THANK YOU!!! That answers my question. I assumed it was basic stuff and it may not be.

That explains it. Thank you, seriously.

[Bonobo]

35. I am just speculating, UP, but there must be more in there. There must.

[tachyon]

51. The files do not contain the names of the prostitutes you hire.

I'm pretty damn sure of that.

[katsy]

25. Give this it's own thread!

Maybe it'll sink in.

:thumbsup:

[uppityperson]

39. You misunderstood what I was asking but thank you anyways.

Please read the other bits above between bonobo and me. Thanks

[rox63]

7. Govt computers used by govt employees to snoop into confidential records possibly for oppo research

That about sums up my suspicions.

[SpiralHawk]

8. Imagine a boot stomping your face forever

Because that's what the republicon homelander totalitarians are doing to America.

This latest incident is bringing THE UGLY REPUBLICON TOTALITARIAN
REALITY home to a lot of people.

Torture is 'legal' and 'moral' now, thanks to the twisted, Anti-American, republicon chickenhawk VETO of Herr Commandant AWOL -- and so is spying on US citizens for political control.

Ugly beyond words.

[tachyon]

12. Wow.

:eyes:

[Nitrogenica]

9. It's what the White House is saying about this tonight.

Three times there was a breach, and this is blamed on "curiosity"?

Something stinks in beantown, there I dared to say it.

There might be a lot more to this than meets the eye.

[Pavulon]

11. Like Britney's medical record breach

the access should be punished by job loss.

Do consider people who professionally gather information do not trip audit tools.

But is does have the ability to usurp the negative press on other obama camp problems.

My read, and I do not post in gdp. Just vote for who ends up on the ticket.

[girl gone mad]

14. This is what Watergate started out as.

We need to know who put them up to it.

This is not how a democracy should function.

[uppityperson]

22. So this is not about passport info, but about spying?

I assumed that where I travel is common knowledge amongst the passport places, and the same for others. I know they are looking for stuff to use against him, but thought where someone traveled, using a passport, was not in secure files.

I know they spy on each other and think it is totally wrong. I just was confused as to the passport bit.

[girl gone mad]

41. A specific violation ocurred 3 times..

just after Obama became our presumptive nominee.

It looks like there's a chance this could be about Republicans illegally interfering with our election process.

[uppityperson]

44. Indeed it does. I was confused about passport info, got informed elsewhere here. Thanks.

[ColbertWatcher]

20. Explanation.

The GOP need to stay in power.

They cannot have anyone realize how incompetent they are or hold them accountable for all their crimes.

That is what all the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear%2C_uncertainty_and_doubt">FUD is about.

You know they lie.

Whatever information they get from this leak will be used as "legitimate" support for their lies.

GOP: "Barack hates America!"

Don't believe us? Check out all those countries he went to. What countries? Don't you remember that passport leak? He hid it to cover up how much he hates America.

The sheep will follow mindlessly like always. this just gives them cover.

Plus, the GOP will say the system of "monitoring" computer systems works!

[uppityperson]

36. And my question was what could they get from this, but check post #27

I assumed that where I travel is common knowledge amongst the passport places, and the same for others. I know they are looking for stuff to use against him, but thought where someone traveled, using a passport, was not in secure files. Bonobo says otherwise, which makes sense.

[ColbertWatcher]

37. They get legitimacy for their lies.

It doesn't matter what information was "discovered", they will use it to explain their own agenda.

And say it is official information because it came from a government entity.

[ColbertWatcher]

45. Also...

...don't forget the GOP has been pushing this crap about the need to monitor everything we're doing. The fact that the snoopers were busted by "the monitoring system" will be dragged out as proof that their version of "legality" is the correct one.

[elehhhhna]

23. IF it were done by a military contractor for the Bush Junta would it worry you?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3039854&mesg_id=3039854

[uppityperson]

28. OF COURSE IT WORRIES ME, I just don't understand why it is worse than all the other spying they do

I was confused about "passport info is known!" stuff since it seemed the focus was on the passport/travel info.

I assumed that where I travel is common knowledge amongst the passport places, and the same for others. I know they are looking for stuff to use against him, but thought where someone traveled, using a passport, was not in secure files.

[girl gone mad]

46. It could also be worse than anyone has been imagining..

up to this point.

What if these people were acting in an effort to find out about his overseas travel plans? This information could be used to plan a kidnapping or an assassination attempt.

Not that this idea necessarily has merit, but if your first instinct is to minimize these breaches, it might be smart to play devil's advocate.

[nomatrix123]

32. Feb. 25 picture of Obama in Kenyan robes

on Drudge. Passport info?

[liberalmuse]

40. Contracted employees under the government of the opposing political party...

committed a security breach and worse by snooping into confidential files (yes, they are confidential records) of a prospective Presidential candidate. No one should be allowed to access your personal information, files or records kept by a hospital, government, lawyer, school, etc. without your knowledge or permission. Obama can show his passport to anyone he wants, but once information about his travels is kept on file by the government, there are strict laws governing who, when, why and how those files are to be accessed. Those files likely contain more information than where he got his passport stamped. This type of violation of privacy has been known to happen in police states all the time. It should never be allowed in a free country. If people aren't bothered by this, then perhaps the Watergate break-in wasn't a crime, either. Yes, I'm comparing this to Watergate. I'm just guessing that those files were accessed in the hopes of giving someone some sort of advantage in the Presidential race.

[uppityperson]

43. I agree and thanks for the input on passport info, that is what I was confused about.

I agree with what you write, was just confused about the passport info stuff, not in any way about the spying/etc. Thank you.

[Justitia]

47. This is actually a State Dept file, it contains very sensitive information

Like the names of your relatives in other countries, where they live, their occupations & affiliations, etc.

Lots of info regarding your rights / claims to citizenship.

Loads of personal information (financial, DOBs, SSN, addresses, affiliations).

Travel movements/visas requested/granted is simply one part of it.

Throw into the mix that we are talking about a Secret Service protected US Presidential Candidate, and it is One Very Big Deal Indeed.

[uppityperson]

52. Thank you, that makes a lot of sense. I appreciate your taking time to answer

in a nice concise, actually answering way. Thank you. I know the Pres candidate and spying stuff, just didn't know about the passport stuff. Thanks.

[MiniMe]

55. What if they tried to insert false entries into his travels, making it look like

he visited some questionable countries on a regular basis. You know how the right wing spin machine works, it wouldn't have mattered if it was proved to be false, they would keep spinning the BS. Look how many repukes believe that Obama is Muslim.