Hagel: A Defense Of The Surge That ‘Dismisses’ Over ‘900 Dead Americans’ Is Wrong»

[babylonsister]

http://thinkprogress.org/2008/03/23/hagel-mccains-defense-of-the-surge-that-dismisses-over-900-dead-americans-is-wrong/

Hagel: A Defense Of The Surge That ‘Dismisses’ Over ‘900 Dead Americans’ Is Wrong»

Earlier this week, Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) said he “will be glad to stake my campaign on the fact that has succeeded,” effectively shackling himself to President Bush’s Iraq policy. Previously, McCain has insisted that the level of American casualties is the “key” metric by which to measure to the surge’s success:

The surge is succeeding and the key to it is not American presence, it’s American casualties and by any measure, we are succeeding and the political process is succeeding.

On ABC’s This Week with George Stephanopolous today, Sen. Chuck Hagel (R-NE) bluntly disagreed with McCain’s assessment of the surge’s success, saying it’s wrong to “dismiss” over “900 dead Americans since the surge” began as “success”:

We have lost over 900 dead Americans since the surge. Now if you want to dismiss that as ’success’ that would be your interpretation.

Watch it at link~

McCain frequently dismisses questions about his claim that he wouldn’t mind if U.S. troops were in Iraq for “a hundred years” by insisting that “the point is American casualties.” Yet, as Hagel points out, in repeatedly insisting that the surge is a success, McCain downplays the fact that American soldiers are still dying in Iraq on a regular basis.

As of today, the Pentagon has confirmed the deaths of 3,991 U.S. soldiers in Iraq since the start of the war. Four more reported casualties are awaiting confirmation.

[TwilightGardener]

1. I am surprised that he is hitting McCain. I'm glad for it, though--SOMEONE needs to!

[gateley]

2. Hagel has been vociferous in his

opposition to the war. He's one of the ones who tells it like it is. I love that!

[babylonsister]

4. I wonder who he'll vote for?! nt

[gateley]

6. That'll be kind of a quandary for him, won't it?

I can't see him voting for McCain because he feels so strongly about this issue, but could he vote for a Dem? I know he's not going to run for re-election, so maybe he's going to bid adieu to the Republicans (although he does seem to be in sync with many of their other platforms).

If Biden were the nom, he'd vote for him. He even has the sweatshirt!

[Traction311]

7. I have no idea

He is a conservative on pretty much every issue but the war. However, he feels so strongly about it he might vote third party. I doubt he'll vote for a Democrat.

[TwilightGardener]

8. He'll come out swinging for Obama. Publicly. I would put money on it.

He and Obama see the world the same way, in terms of foreign policy and global problems.

[Inuca]

10. I hope it is not just

wishful thinking from your part (and mine :-)). He sounded very evasive on this today, at his hamletian best, except to say that he has serious policy differences with his very good friend McCain. Saying that he did not look into any of the details of Obama's and Clinton's withdrawal plans did not sound very convincing, but rather an attempt to avoid a more straightforward answer.

[TwilightGardener]

13. He has said a few times that he won't announce support in the primary--

I think he is just keeping it close to the vest for now (and I think he knows all three candidates and their positions well enough), but if it's Obama v. McCain, Obama is going to be the only one to offer him a high-level job, most likely. If Hagel is already publicly undercutting McCain on McCain's signature issue, then there is little chance Hagel will end up endorsing him, or that McCain would even want it. I think he'll come out for Obama in the summer--before the convention, if it's settled by then (let's hope so)--it would have the most impact then. Foreign policy is Chuck's big issue, and McCain simply fails it--he's 100% neocon. Like I said, I'd put money on it.

[Inuca]

14. How much money ? :-)

Agree with everything you said. Coming out for O now may not even be good idea politically for either of them. We shall see.... I just hope he will not end up as a driver somewhere, as he suggested at the end :-).

[panader0]

3. Good for Hagel

The "success" of the surge is a MSM fabrication. How are things better? Haven't there been many bomb deaths lately? Is the electricity and the water up and running again? Have the one million plus refugees returned home? Bullshit on this surge.

[abninf14]

9. electricity and water?

http://www.grd.usace.army.mil/news/releases/NR08-03-08.pdf

http://www.grd.usace.army.mil/news/releases/NR08-02-19-02.pdf


http://www.grd.usace.army.mil/news/releases/NR08-01-24.pdf

-----> USACE has achieved program
goals for providing more power more eq-
uitably across Iraq through key infra-
structure improvement in electrical gen-
eration, transmission, and distribution.
Peak daily power generated has exceeded
the pre-war level of 4,300 megawatts and
is exceeding 9,500 megawatts as more
generation is brought on line.

http://www.grd.usace.army.mil/news/releases/NR08-01-15-02.pdf

[tanyev]

12. 5 years after Iraq's 'liberation,' there are worms in the water

BAGHDAD — Iraq's most prominent clerics have ruled that using a water pump on one's own pipes is akin to stealing resources from a neighbor, so what does a person do when it takes half an hour to fill a cooking pot with water from the tap?

Iraqis pray for forgiveness, then pump away.

To them, the real crime is that five years after the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq , they still swelter in the summer and freeze in the winter because of a lack of electricity. Government rations are inevitably late, incomplete or expired. Garbage piles up for days, sometimes weeks, emanating toxic fumes.

The list goes on: black-market fuel, phone bills for land lines that haven't worked in years, education and health-care systems degraded by the flight of thousands of Iraq's best teachers and doctors.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=3230073

[abninf14]

15. and this is our fault?

"Trash collection is so sporadic that residents tie up their garbage in plastic bags and fling them onto a reeking pile at the end of the street."

Cultural mentality. You wouldn't find this in a neighborhood in the states. Someone would capitalize off of this and start a trash business. The Iraqis need to start thinking for themselves. The gift horse won't be there forever.


And its all bias. There are plenty of articles about families whose standard of living has increased. Hell, you can find the same situation here in the States, right? It all depends on who is looking and what they are looking for.

[MiniMe]

17. Yes, it is our fault

Yes, there are some, and that would be very very few Iraqi's are better off. Most are either dead or worse off. I also notice that you are quoting an army "rah rah" piece for your backup. Sorry, but they are promoting the propaganda.

Enjoy your stay.

[tanyev]

20. Well, it wasn't like that before we went in there.

Here's another one for you:

Women bear brunt of Iraq bloodshed

The rights of women were well recognised by Saddam's secular Baath party. Women would work openly, even as their traditional roles as mothers and wives remained deeply rooted in the society.

But since the US-led invasion the erosion of women's rights in Iraq has become a "national crisis," says a report published March 6 by Women For Women International, a US-based women's group.

Sixty-four percent of the women surveyed claimed that violence against them had increased in the last five years. "When asked why, respondents most commonly said that there is less respect for women's rights than before, that women are thought of as possessions, and that the economy has gotten worse," the report said.

Seventy-six percent of the women interviewed said that girls in their families were forbidden from attending school.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080307/wl_mideast_afp/womeniraq_080307171830

[Inuca]

11. Actually

there were 2 million refugees, a million had feld the country, and another were internal refugees. That would be almost 10% of the population I think.

[gateley]

5. Boy, he puts it into simple terms, doesn't he.

I like this guy!

Thanks, babylonsister! :hi:

[MiniMe]

16. Good for Hagel, I only wish he would vote that way

Unfortunately, too many of his votes have been lockstep votes. I believe he decided not to run again, he can vote his country and not his party now.

[Inuca]

18. His votes

on the war and related issues have been anything BUT lockstep for quite some time now.

[Inuca]

19. The video

from ABC http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/