Wealthier Americans live longer

[bobbolink]

http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_8664063

WASHINGTON — New government research has found "large and growing" disparities in life expectancy for richer and poorer Americans, paralleling the growth of income inequality in the past two decades.

~~snip~~

The gaps have grown despite efforts by the federal government to reduce them. One of the top goals of "Healthy People 2010," an official statement of national health objectives issued in 2000, is to "eliminate health disparities among different segments of the population," including different incomes and racial and ethnic backgrounds.

Singh said last week that federal officials had found "widening socioeconomic inequalities in life expectancy" at every age.

In 1980-82, Singh said, people in the most affluent group could expect to live 2.8 years longer than people in the most deprived group. By 1998-2000, the difference in life expectancy had increased to 4.5 years.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Wonder if this is the case in socialist countries

like Norway and France?

[Warpy]

6. It's unlikely to appear in any country with national health care

Our height and life expectancy have been declining. Our maternal and infant death rates are increasing.

The rich are killing us. Why won't people wake up to this fact?

[RedCappedBandit]

8. Because people are naive

They all expect to graduate college and make that money!

[nxylas]

11. "Anyone can be rich if they work hard"

And the moon is made of green cheese and babies come from the stork. Idiots.

[Brigid]

73. Unfortunately, this is a myth that too many still believe.

And until more people let go of it, we're never going to make an progress.

[bobbolink]

12. No, I don't think so.... they don't have the large gap in incomes.

More income equity, less health gap.

Plus, of course, they have universal health care!

[n2doc]

2. Breaking: Dog bites man....

The only surprise is that the rich don't have a bigger gap in life expectancy. It would be interesting to compare average Americans with Congress on that front...

[panader0]

3. "I don't care how great you are,

I don't care what you're worth,
'cause when it all comes down
you got to go back to Mother Earth."
Memphis Slim

[shain from kane]

4. 60 Minutes on Sunday --- Who will benefit from growing organs in the lab?

[leftofthedial]

5. capitalism is all about creating commodities out of everything

life is no exception

get off your sick lazy ass and make a fortune you loser

[RedCappedBandit]

7. Being able to afford health care and proper nutrition..

makes you live longer?! Woah!

I'm just surprised the gap isn't bigger.

[bobbolink]

19. conservatives would claim it's because poor folk are just careless

:nuke:

[uppityperson]

96. I wouldn't call them conservatives but idiots.

[pitohui]

9. wow what was the first clue?

i've known this for like 20 years and it isn't because i'm on the cutting edge of scientific research == this information has been published before, i remember reading it in the nation way back in the days of print copies

according to what i read, it's much worse than what is described here -- blue collar workers had a significantly higher risk of dying in their 50s than white collar workers so we're not just talking about a couple of years, at the end of life, which who would care that rich people are kept on machines longer and tortured at the end of life so that the nursing homes could drain them of their last penny? (it's up the rich families to fight that battle) what's upsetting at least to me is that working people are actually losing years where they would have some quality of life

i know too many people myself who have died in their 50s, it's quite frightening

i don't think we are told the truth about our life expectancy, we are given some generic information that doesn't always apply to folks of our class and/or career path

i see drug addicts who just won't die, fortunate in their genetics or something, and hard working people who just drop overnight, and it's really distressing

[shain from kane]

10. The wealthier French, during the Reign of Terror, not so much.

[yorgatron]

98. the guillotine made sure of that,maybe it's time to bring it back

:evilgrin:

[Initech]

13. Translation: wealthier people can afford better health care.

[bobbolink]

16. better food, better housing, less pollution, etc.

[Two Americas]

32. less stress, less isolation

We focus entirely on the material, and see the solution to all problems as being material. The need to be accepted, to belong, to be able to participate is more important than material well-being, and being excluded and rejected and abused is the foundation and cause, not merely the result, of poverty. It is not that the poor lack material things, it is that the wealthy and powerful - and those who admire and support and defend them - lack compassion and are willing to deny people the things they need to survive.

I know I have related this story before, but it is relevant to this discussion.

Charlotte Delbo, in her narrative about her incarceration in German camps during the war, says that "everyone who returned knows that, without the others, she would not have come back."

She describes the women in the camp surviving unimaginable deprivation and abuse, hunger and cold. But one thing was always a sure to be a death sentence - being separated from the others. Whenever a woman was placed into solitary confinement for the night as punishment, she was certain to be dead by morning.

[bobbolink]

38. very important point... rejection and shunning are killers.

Verbal abuse is just as damaging, if not more so, as physical abuse.

So, it sstands to reason that so is rejection and shunning.

Yet, we persist in those very behaviors.

WHY... ~~~shock~~~ even at DU!

:argh:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

14. alternate headline...

Wealthier HUMANS live longer...


sP

[bobbolink]

15. Not universally,.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

18. as a general rule i would be willing to bet it is true...

at least in industrialized countries...

sP

[bobbolink]

I'm thinking the opposite...

MOre equitable health care in industrialized nations, less income gap.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

21. i can see that...

but regardless of country economic TYPE...if you are wealthier you gain more access and potentially better access to everything from food to healthcare...

sP

[bobbolink]

36. Of course. BUT. it was about the GAP... the gap is much wider in the US

That was the point.

We have so much to do to catch up with more enlightened countries.

[eridani]

54. The gap makes wealthy people here less healthy than wealthy people elsewhere

Remember that study showing that the poorest quintile of British citizens were healthier than the highest quintile of Americans?

[Two Americas]

56. thought provoking

Maybe the extreme wealth gap diminishes the life of the wealthy as well as the rest of us? Maybe nobody "wins" when it is a free for all?

[bobbolink]

67. No, I don't remember seeing that. Are you able to locate it?

I'm glad you brought that up, as I'd be interested in seeing it.

Thanks!

[eridani]

95. Right here--

http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=3289

[Dorian Gray]

61. I agree that there is probably less disparity

in nations with socialized health care, but there probably still is somewhat of a disparity. The nature of the gruelling (blue collar) work of the less wealthy, the stresses in their lives, less time to exercise, pursue a healthy diet, and all those factors probably still affect someone.

Regardless, this study is proof why our nation needs to address health care issues to create more parity among the various classes.

[pitohui]

17. the alternate headline would be "spin," the study was conducted in nebraska on AMERICANS

it was not conducted on generic "humans"

[ProdigalJunkMail]

20. spin...maybe...but true...

the study may have been done on americans, but you take the human population on a whole...i bet you get the same result...

sP

[pitohui]

22. i'm not interested in what you want to "bet" on, i'm interested in facts

the study was done on americans

all else is speculation and to pretend that our situation in america is typical of other western industrialized countries is bogus

[ProdigalJunkMail]

23. ok...you might need a cup of decaf

jesus...it was just an observation...it's not like i am writing a thesis here...

[Hannah Bell]

30. There's an extensive literature on the subject. It's not just the US.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1674771

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1674771

[Hannah Bell]

31. More...

What is the truth then?

The answer is that inequality is in itself bad, i.e., the distance among social groups and individuals and the lack of social cohesion that this distance creates is bad for people’s health and quality of life.

Studies performed among civil servants in Great Britain have shown, for example, that life expectancy (the years that people can expect to live) among the top civil servants, grade 32, is longer than the life expectancy of civil servants of grade 31, who have longer life expectancy than civil servants of grade 30, and so on, reaching the lowest life expectancy at grade 1. There is no poverty among British civil servants, but there are significant differences in their life expectancies.

The same finding has been replicated in other countries. In Spain, for example, we performed a similar study, looking at life expectancy by social class, and we found that the members of the bourgeoisie (the European term to define the corporate class) live an average of two years longer than the petit bourgeoisie (the term to define the upper middle class), who live two years longer than the middle class, who live two years longer than the skilled working class, who live two years longer than the members of the unskilled working class, who live two years longer than the unskilled working class that has been chronically unemployed.

The difference between the two poles—the corporate class and the chronically unemployed—is ten years. This average distance in the European Union is seven years. In the United States, it is 14 years.

Why these differences in life expectancy? ...we have enough evidence to provide an answer: social distance and how that distance is perceived by people, in addition to the lack of social cohesion that it produces, is at the root of the problem. This situation appears clearly when we compare the life expectancy of a poor person in the United States (who makes $12,000 a year) with the life expectancy of a middle-class person in Ghana.

...if the world were considered a single society, then the poor in the United States would be a member of the worldwide middle class and the middle-class person of Ghana would be part of the worldwide poor—certainly poorer than the poor in the United States. And yet, I repeat, the poor citizen of the United States (although of the worldwide middle class) has a shorter life expectancy than the middle-class person (although of the worldwide poor) in Ghana (two years less, to be precise).


http://www.monthlyreview.org/0604navarro.htm

[bobbolink]

37. Very good resource and info. THanks!

Is this a major topic for you? I'm impressed with the info you found.

Thanks!

:applause:

[Two Americas]

28. that maybe a little misleading

Poor people do not merely "lack access" in some benign neutral way. They are denied access. This is a critical distinction.

When we look at massive irresponsible clear cutting of forests, for example, we don't talk about a lack of trees as being the problem, as though they are just magically disappearing, we focus on the perpetrators, and we see the actions of the perpetrators as the problem.

When it comes to human beings, we do not grant them the same consideration that we routinely grant our pets, or even trees. '

Poverty is not accidental. The victims of poverty are not the problem, they are not what needs to be fixed as though they were doing something wrong.

Poverty is caused by perpetrations, not by a lack of anything. That means that it is important that we make the distinction that it is America we talk about. There IS something uniquely exploitative, cruel and destructive about the system under which we are living here, and that should be our focus, not fixing the victims.

[bobbolink]

51. "Poverty is not accidental. " I'm noticing that.

I'm definitely noticing that.

Need to change our WHOLE conception of it all!!

"There IS something uniquely exploitative, cruel and destructive about the system under which we are living here, and that should be our focus, not fixing the victims."

INdeedy, YES!

That's your mission, should you decide to accept it.

:hi:

[Yavin4]

24. The Reason Why The Gap Is Not Larger Is Because of Medicare

The only true National Health Insurance policy.

[dajoki]

25. Much worse for people with serious mental illness...

http://www.nasmhpd.org/general_files/publications/med_directors_pubs/Technical%20Report%20on%20Morbidity%20and%20Mortaility%20-%20Final%2011-06.pdf

People with serious mental illness (SMI) die, on average, 25 years earlier than the general population. State studies document recent increases in death rates over those previously reported. This is a serious public health problem for the people served by our state mental health systems. While suicide and injury account for about 30-40% of excess mortality, 60% of premature deaths in persons with schizophrenia are due to medical conditions such as cardiovascular, pulmonary and infectious diseases.
People with serious mental illness also suffer from a high prevalence of modifiable risk factors, in particular obesity and tobacco use. Compounding this problem, people with serious mental illness have poorer access to established monitoring and treatment guidelines for physical health conditions.
Recommend!!

[sutz12]

26. Breaking News! Noted scientist theorizes that water is wet...

Stones are generally hard, and sunlight tends to cause heating of objects left out in it.

:shrug:

[ProdigalJunkMail]

27. look out...

pitohui is only interested in hard facts about studies in the USA so you better get a couple of references for these assertions :-)

sP

[Two Americas]

29. depends upon your viewpoint

Looking from the top down, this is no surprise and not of any especial interest.

Looking from the bottom up, it is of interest and valuable.

So many Americans, having gained an inch of elevation in status and material well being, figuratively speaking, choose to take the view from the top.

"This is no surprise" - as though it were some natural law that wealthy means "better" - reinforces the second unspoken part of the statement: "that is why we are all striving to get to the top of the heap by many means, and are so proud and arrogant about what we have achieved."

"Wealthy" does not mean "smarter" nor "more deserving" nor "more successful."

There is no natural law that dicates that wealth=health, so no, it is not self-evident or obvious.

[bobbolink]

68. "Looking from the bottom up, it is of interest and valuable." Thank you. Lots of snobbery here.

It's time to recognize that all of us on the left side of the aisle are together in this, and quit ostracizing some of us.

THANK YOU!

[bobbolink]

35. thank you for adding so much to the discussion.

some of us actually care about these things.

[blindpig]

33. forward...into the past

Like the medieval Europeans, ancient Mayans and Egyptians, the ruling class and their lapdogs have more of everything, including health and longevity. We are naught but serfs.

Time we put our money where our mouth is, true democracy and economic justice.

[bobbolink]

49. "We are naught but serfs. " Yes... all of us. And that's the picture that strikes fear.

"Time we put our money where our mouth is, true democracy and economic justice."

I"m thinking more and more about the disconnect with democracy and poverty.

So much of citizenry that poor people are left out of.

[Hannah Bell]

34. It isn't just that rich people live longer than poor people.

There's a morbidity/mortality gradient all the way up the economic/power ladder. The middle class lives longer & is less sick than the poor, the upper middle class lives longer & is less sick than the middle, & so on.

It's not access to health care. You'll find the same gradient in countries with universal care. The mechanisms of the effect are more subtle.

[demgurl]

39. bobbolink, you always have so much information.

Thanks for all of your hard work.

demgurl

[bobbolink]

40. Thank you for reading and hearing!

Can information be heard is nobody is listening?

:hug:

[nosmokes]

41. K&R

:kick:

[bobbolink]

42. thanks for the #5!!

:hi:

[Hidden Stillness]

43. Reminds Me of Two Studies

This reminds me of two things I heard a few years ago, that might not seem related but that actually are, I think. First, a study (by the National Institues of Health, possibly; can't remember) that showed that AIDS patients whose insurance covered the costs of programs that taught them how to maintain their illness--how to keep on a healthy diet, hygiene, avoiding colds and flu, exercise, keeping their homes free of dust, etc--ongoing healthy living education of the type that diabetics also have to learn, had a much longer lifespan than those who got medicine, but no ongoing education programs. It spelled the difference between life and death--whether or not their insurance covered it. Of course, the corporate media censored that part of the finding, and only reported on the part about how life expectancy was increased if patients had family, friends or pets.

The second one was a study on stress levels at work (possibly on PBS NewsHour; can't remember): it found that waitresses had higher levels of stress than the highest-paid CEOs and etc. What contributed to unhealthy stress the most were two things: being underpaid, (and therefore having bill problems), and having no power on the job, no control over your circumstances, being ordered around and unable to answer back or solve the stressor, etc. Having pressure and being unable to ever solve it or get over it, and having no control over the (work) environment, is a major life-stress; it is our recession economy now.

[bobbolink]

44. Great info! Would you be able to find those studies?

Especially the one on stress of waitresses.

That seems to go along with the experience of Barbara Ehrenreich in Nickel and Dimed

[waiting for hope]

45. I have always liked Barbara Ehrenreich -

She's also an Edwards fan. Thanks for bringing this here - K&R!

PS - I know if I had the time to exercise, I'd live longer. And I have a full time job and three kids (third is Mr. WFH) and I'm lucky if I get six hours a sleep at night. Imagine what people with two jobs and a family go through.

[bobbolink]

46. I just finished the book... trying to digest all the implications.

I didn't know she's an Edwards fan... that would fit, eh?

"Imagine what people with two jobs and a family go through."

And homeless people.

NEVER enough sleep when you're homeless, no matter the situation.

Street, shelter, car.... NEVER enough sleep. Not enough food, not the right food. Stress everywhere... never feel welcome. Never feel like part of the rest of the country.

OUtcast.

[waiting for hope]

47. Sorry bobbo -

I read the article and thought about my own situation - and you are so right. If this country decides to get off its fat ass and do something about Universal Healthcare, uplifting millions from poverty, what a brave new direction we could go. :hug: You would never be an outcast to me.

Here are some Barbara Ehrenreich tidbits:

http://www.johnedwards.com/news/headlines/20070515-women-for-edwards/

http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/49828/

http://ehrenreich.blogs.com/barbaras_blog/2007/03/catty_about_can.html

You would never be an outcast to me.

[bobbolink]

48. No need to be sorry... I'm not at all discounting your experience, and your exhaustion!

Never!

I don't see how a lot of working poor people make it.

I just wanted to broaden that experience.

Even Edwards ticked me off by leaving us out of the discussion so much.

Thanks... your caring means so much! :loveya:

[waiting for hope]

50. You are quite welcome -

and keep bringing these stories to GD - goodness knows this place needs some honest discussion. And if I'm to get my six hour quota, I need to finish up some things around here. God Bless :loveya:

[Hidden Stillness]

52. Possible Answer

Well, I tried to do a little research by Googling several word combinations, and according to the descriptions, it seems to have been Johns Hopkins that did the study. I tried to click on a PDF that seemed to be the study, but it was blank and would not come up. The address was www.dpi.state.nc.us/docs/curriculum/languagearts/secondary/elainformationalwriting.pdf By the way, there was a "Most Depressing Jobs Ranked" article at www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21292612/ that was also pertinent. Again, though, I think the job stress ranking, with waitresses way at the top, may have been Johns Hopkins. There is also a very nice "stress test" web page at altered-states.net/barry/newsletter144/sresstest.htm (yes, it was spelled that way). I hope this helps.

[bobbolink]

94. Thanks for your efforts!! I couldn'tn get that Johns Hopkins story either..

It's now a page about education something-or-other.. sigh...

Thanks for the depressing jobs link... that's helpful!

:thumbsup:

[misanthrope]

100. I spent almost two decades in the bar and restaurant business...

...doing every job you can think of in that realm. I can tell you being a server is more stressful than most people realize. I've seen adults reduced to tears from the stress involved in a high-volume night on the floor. It's almost as bad in the other areas as well. Ask Anthony Bourdain about it. It's one of the reasons folks in that line of work "play" so hard when they get off a shift.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

53. That barely scratches the surface

It says nothing about quality of life and actual time that one could would constitute as living.

Is it possible to stop using the term "the wealthy" and use proper language such as "opportunistic pariahs" or "scandalous capitalistic vultures?"

Just asking.

K&R

[blindpig]

59. How about Social Parasites?

Social parasites take advantage of interactions between members of social organisms such as ants or termites. In kleptoparasitism, parasites appropriate food gathered by the host. An example is the brood parasitism practiced by many species of cuckoo. Many cuckoos use other bird species as "babysitters", depositing their eggs in the nest of the host species, which raise the cuckoo young as one of their own.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parasite

Kleptoparasitism makes the nut too, but this type ain't cuckoo, they are deadly serious.

[bobbolink]

89. Apt term! In general, I don't like using the animals as examples, cuz I think it demeans the

critters, but you have nailed it with this one.

There are also other birds that do that.

Oppportunists like capitalists take advantage of workers in that way.

:thumbsup:

[undergroundpanther]

55. our social cohesiveness and kin

networks were broken up quite deliberately by 'social engineers'.elitists who wanted us seperated into classes with the company as our family/kin replacement.Cheap labor dedicated to the corporation as if it was our lovers kids and family.That's what the "top" pigs wanted.They alienated us from each other so we would see work as our only social network.


Alienation in work means that the most alert hours of one’s life are sacrificed to the making of money with which to ‘live.’ Alienation means boredom and the frustration of potentially creative effort, of the productive sides of personality.

C. Wright Mills, White Collar (p. 236), 1951


It is time we addressed mass psychology and recognised the bonds between people in a systematic way.

Those Who Control the stories that define the culture of a society control its politics and its economy. This truth is crucial to explaining how a small cabal of right-wing extremists was able to render the democratic safeguards of the U.S. political system ineffective and gain control of the governing institutions of the nation. It is also crucial to framing a strategy for advancing the Great Turning.
http://www.greatchange.org/ov-korten,prisons_of_the_mind,html.html

http://www.monbiot.com/archives/1994/06/02/fire-in-a-box/
http://users.aol.com/vlntryst/wn34.html#quigley

http://www.minet.org/Documents/guru-papers.txt

[elizfeelinggreat]

64. Interesting links

I wholeheartedly agree about controlling the stories (MSM does this very well).

Bush worshipers really fit this description (from the last link) don't they?

"Gurus undercut reason as a path to understanding. When they do allow
inquiry, they often place the highest value on paradox. Paradox easily
lends itself to mental manipulation: no matter what position you take, you
are always shown to be missing the point, the point being the guru knows
something you do not.

What appears to be a strong bond between guru and disciple is illusory, as
it depends solely upon the disciple's acknowledging the guru's authority.
Should that break, little remains.

Even those on the lowest rung can feel superior to those who have not had
the intelligence to become members.

To those observing such authoritarian groups on the outside, it appears
members give up their power to the leader. But most disciples did not have
very much personal power to begin with. "

[Orwellian_Ghost]

66. Bump

:hi:

[bobbolink]

90. Excellent analysis and links! You need a wider audience!

:applause:

:loveya:

[caseycoon]

57. K&R Very informative. Thanks for posting this! n/t

[Solly Mack]

58. K & R

[KatyMan]

60. Like Bono said

"The rich stay healthy
The sick stay poor"

ETA:
From the song God Part 2, Rattle and Hum

[bobbolink]

69. Thanks for that mention!

[stlsaxman]

62. Let's give The Denver Post a big ol' DU H Award!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3061992

Fund out about the new "DU H" award at the link above!

bobolink- thanks for posting this article!

[bobbolink]

70. Please see reply #29

Your elitist attitude is showing.

[stlsaxman]

77. Excuse me?

I meant no offense or elitist attitude from this.

I read this article from the Denver Post and got as angered as you.

But I hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me saying "Well- DUH!!!"

(on edit- oh and see post #65... is his/her elitist attitude showing?)

:shrug:

[Two Americas]

83. two kinds of "duh" maybe

Some say "duh" meaning "of course rich people have it better. That is why we should all try to be rich. Rich is good! We all want to be 'winners!' What is wrong with that??"

Others say "duh" and mean "we need to fight this, and how can people not see that we need to fight this? 'Winning' and being obsessed with accumulating wealth and dominating people and beating them is causing unacceptable misery and suffering for others."

[stlsaxman]

63. Oh - and a big K & Rec! n/t

[mntleo2]

65. Well Duh! And The Rich Are Thinner ...

...because they have a decent diet. IF you are eligible for food stamps you are allowed about $1.19 per person per meal. So for a family of 3 this means about $3.57 per meal, including beverage. Tell me what you could fix for dinner that is filling, nutritious, and healthy on that? Obesity with the poor is rampant. That alone causes heart problems, diabetes and high blood pressure. In my city alone over 200 homeless died on the street last year by such things as murder, freezing or starving.

You know, sometimes don't you wish they would spend their millions of dollars on obvious things like FEEDING AND HOUSING THE POOR instead of studies like this where they "discover" something any homeless person could tell anyone if they spent 5 minutes on the street? I sure do!

Cat In Seattle

[varelse]

74. Precisely (nt)

Especially as social darwinists (aka "neocons") are likely to either ignore the study entirely or twist the interpretation around to bolster their own arguments...

[Two Americas]

85. a good "duh"

Here is an example of a good "duh." :)

Hi cat, good post. Thanks.

[fascisthunter]

71. Well They Do Eat, Sleep and Live Better

Most of them at least can afford those options much more so than the poor or middle class.

The stress the poor and middle class live through alone, shortens their live span. It's why folks like me who see this injustice take wealth disparity so seriously... it's about life and death.

[bobbolink]

78. "It's why folks like me who see this injustice take wealth disparity so seriously."

Thank you! Yes!

To disparage this as so ho-hum means that liberals and progressives don't take it seriously, so they then do nothing.

"it's about life and death."

Exactly!

Is it worth forming our platform around?

Is it worth making phone calls to our reps about?

Is it worth... hmmm, maybe a demonstration or three?

[fascisthunter]

82. It's Worth all of Which You Say and Much Much More

unfortunately even I am guilty of not doing enough. I try though to do as much as possible....

[bobbolink]

88. I appreciate all your efforts!

:applause:

I'd like to clone the few of you who care about these issues, and make the effort!

[Brigid]

72. They needed an expensive government study to figure this out?

Is there any one of us who wouldn't have guessed that? Sheesh. :eyes:

[bobbolink]

79. Sheeesh back to you. What are you doing about it?

Since you are so obviously above it all.

As he said in post #29, from the perspective of the bottom rung, this is IMPORTANT.

Maybe not to much to you, which means that you need to understand why some of us see it differently.

[Brigid]

81. Of course it's important.

Vitally important. I'm just saying it should have been obvious already.

Sadly, those who should be paying attention -- the ones who quake in fear of "socialized medicine" -- won't, because they don't care.

[Two Americas]

86. cycle of despair

It is easy to point the finger at others, saying that they are the ones who should be paying attention, and that they won't because they don't care. That then can become an excuse for us to throw up our hands and stop caring.

This is a painful subject - and we might do well to ask ourselves just why that is so - so we can forgive ourselves for wanting to avert our gaze. We withdraw, and become mere observers, as we look at things in a cold and distant, bloodless and pedantic way to insulate ourselves emotionally from the horror, and we lose any sense of power or effectiveness. It all seems so hopeless. We inadvertently contribute to the cycle of despair.

It doesn't matter if it should be obvious or not, and while it may or may not be true that those who should care don't care, that is not really very relevant, either. We are making an artificial distinction here, and that can only serve to advance neglect and apathy - to foster excuses.

In this way, even those who are not physically suffering and mired in poverty, even those whose lives are not at risk, are not themselves fully alive. That is why poverty and homelessness are not niche little special issues to put on our list of causes - oh, say in the number 8 spot - but rather, we are all homeless and impoverished by the same system and all of pour lives are at dire risk - if not physically, then spiritually, emotionally, and intellectually.

[bobbolink]

91. While obvious, what we aren't doing is using these studies and numbers to educate people

and get changes made.

I'm posting things like this so people can have them at their disposal to use in conversations.

Not *everyone* understands these things, and if we truly want "change", then we must be the ones to bring it about.

[ooglymoogly]

75. Thre rich have cream in their coffee, the rich drive shiney black cars

but for all of their something and for all of their something else, we're glad we're rich.

Its the lack of stress stupid.

[CT08]

76. No news here

How long has Magic Johnson been living with HIV? In all other scenarios he should be dead now. He is a very rich man thanks to his real estate holdings (I remember him saying he has over a billion $ worth of properties).

Richer people have both free time and financial resources to take care of themselves as opposed to those who have to work daily and take care of others in their households before they can even get rest.

No news here.

[Two Americas]

80. welcome to DU

I am curious - forgive me. Of all the topics that attracted you and motivated you to start posting, what makes this one interesting?

I am also unclear as to what the message "no news here" is meant to communicate to us. Do you mean that this is not news to you personally? Or to anyone? Or that is is not worthy of further dicsussion?

[CT08]

97. Thanks

'No news here' refers that wealthier people live longer...just common sense. As far as why this topic? Not sure...I just found this board recently and jumped in where I saw an opening.

[indepat]

84. 'puke tax and fiscal policies killing Americans like flies: four more years of 'puke rule, four

more years of 'puke rule rapturous crowds will soon chant with a deafening roar. :shrug:

[Two Americas]

87. cause and effect

For many, perhaps most, things were not all that much better under Democratic party leadership.

Our task is to pressure and influence the politicians, not to merely see replacing the Republicans with Democrats as the answer. We have been getting this backward for thirty years - we first see loyalty to the Democrats as the answer, and then wonder why when "we" win nothing changes. "We" did not win. They won. And we ask less and less of them in return for our time, money and effort.

In a representative democracy, the politicians represent us and promote our interests and will do nothing except in response to our pressure. It is not our responsibility to represent them nor to promote their interests, even if they are "better than the Republicans." The more we say that, the less true it becomes.

[bobbolink]

92. Excellently put! We must clean our own houses first!

And stop living an illusion when we could have reality.

Thanks for your clarity!

[indepat]

93. How right, correct, you are: we have long since lost any semblance of a representative

democracy and Dems have badly failed we the people and enabled 'pukes as they pursue welfare for large corporations and the most affluent through a highly regressive tax scheme, thereby further concentrating wealth among a relative few while promoting a ludicrously low minimum wage, a highly regressive payroll tax scheme, fewer employee benefits, the worst health system in the first world, excessive punishment for non-violent crimes, a ludicrous drug policy, the world's highest incarceration rate, punishment, even war, on any nation who runs afoul of their extreme RW agenda, you get the drift. The poor have gotten poorer in the last quarter-century, not getting the nourishment, medical care, and medicines they need so, guess what, they die earlier. And the good part, we ain't seen nothing yet: just wait until all of the Gipper's, GHWB's, and junior's destructive policies reach full fruition. And yes, I surely despise every Dem who has ever aided and abetted in any of this or otherwise enabled a RW takeover of our government. :D

[bobbolink]

99. one last boost for thinking DUers...

:kick: