Is anyone speaking to the fact that the Saudi's are preparing for nuclear fallout

[rhett o rick]

from a "possible" US tactical nuclear strike against Iran? Thom Hartmann was talking about it today. Apparently a Saudi newspaper is saying that directly after Cheney's visit, the Saudi government started working on determining the possible actions to take to combat nuclear fallout. I don't have any sources. Anyone know about this? Sounds like war to me. Anyone, anyone??

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. Oberman mentioned it.

[pitohui]

2. how would they "combat" nuclear fall-out?

everybody in saudi arabia take a jet to vegas the same day?

i have no idea, sounds like the usual rumor mongering to me

[DJ13]

3. how would they "combat" nuclear fall-out?

Duct tape and plastic sheeting?

:shrug:

[nadinbrzezinski]

5. Civil defense can do it,

and it is far from easy.... but we planned for it during the fifties

[pitohui]

64. the civil defense programs of the 50s were a joke that wouldn't have worked

remember "duck and cover?" did you really feel safe hiding under your little wooden desk? i know i didn't! my favorite was the teacher who told us that we were hiding from tornadoes, in those days people didn't talk about unpleasant topics, esp. not to kids -- and yet somehow we kids all knew what "tornadoes" she meant

the programs were ended because they were ineffective, they were just show ponies to pretend we were doing something about the atomic or nuclear war that, at that time, seemed inevitable

[Mountainman]

70. What we planned for was to delay our dying as long as possible.

In a nuclear attack people at ground zero die instantly. The farther out you are the longer it takes to die, but you die. Then there is that fact of atomic half life. Islands in the Pacific where nuclear tests were conducted still contain radioactive material.

[rhett o rick]

7. We had lots of nuclear fallout in the Pacific NW in the early '70 when the Chinese were testing

their nuclear bombs in the atmosphere. There are steps that can be taken to reduce the effects.

[gateley]

21. We did?

I don't think I was aware of that. Or was the government telling us everything was okay and not to worry?

[rhett o rick]

23. Yes. Most of the public didn't know much and the news didn't seem to care. It was probably only

dangerous if you licked the ground. But our government did make a stink and got the Chinese to stop above ground testing.

[gateley]

29. Well I didn't lick the ground

that I can recall, but just the same...

Radiation is just too scary. My brother has a friend whose wife came from around Hanford. Every one in their family died of cancer. I worked with a woman from the area and she got thyroid cancer. I think radiation is that thief that comes in the night.

[bdamomma]

41. these thugs will not get us prepared for this.

[Xithras]

66. IIRC, there's still detectable fallout in the California Sierras from it.

It wasn't just the Northwest (though they got the brunt of it), but the Chinese dropped radiation on most of the Western U.S. I remember taking a geology course in the early 90's, and my instructor was lecturing about the natural ambient radiation in the Sierras from normal uranium content in the high Sierra granites (yep, Half Dome is slightly radioactive...you'll notice they don't put THAT in the tourist brochures). At one point he explained how some locations, mostly basins, have higher radiation levels than others because they contain concentrated fallout from the Chinese nuclear tests in addition to the natural radiation levels found in that range. The water washed the fallout to the low spots, and it's still there today. The levels are so low that you won't be harmed if you walk through them, or even camp overnight in them, but they're readily identifiable if you have a sensitive geiger counter and know what you're looking for.

China, of course, isn't alone in being guilty of this. We irradiated ourselves fairly well during the above ground tests in Nevada, and we irradiated many south Pacific islands and northern Australia back when we were testing at Bikini. No nuclear country can claim the moral high ground on this particular subject.

[pitohui]

63. no there are not really steps that can be taken if you were exposed

you will have an elevated risk of cancer for the rest of your life, that's just the way it is

i thought some of the exposure and elevated breastc cancer risk in the pacific northwest was from the leaky containers at handford facility but whatever the source of the radiation...ain't much that can be done about it now except regular check-ups and try to catch anything early

some people will die early of cancer and blame themselves for not eating some magic bran flakes or something but the real cause will be environment radiation that was out of their control

quite sad

[Kitty Herder]

75. They'd "combat" it by getting the "important", i.e . rich, people safely into shelters

or out of the area. This is Cheney and the Saudi royals we're talking about. They don't care about the general population. Just the extremely wealthy. Everyone else is expendable.

[againes654]

4. That news convinced me that

bushco is preparing for an attack against Iran, and I think it will happen before Nov. I did a poll last night.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3056516

[HeresyLives]

6. Well, there was this.

http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1463/135

[Strelnikov_]

8. Probably concerns debris/partial meltdown(?) from hitting nuclear sites

with conventional weapons.

I agree with Scott Ritter's view that the mushrooms could sprout after things spin out of control, and our overstretched military loses control of the situation.

For one, Iran can destroy 50% of the worlds oil export market, leading to a 40% reduction of petroleum to the US within a few months of the attack.

Starvation, anyone?

[rhett o rick]

10. If they bomb Iran, they will use tactical nuclear weapons. Bush has already laid the ground work.

And, according to what Hartmann was saying, the planes are always in the air with the nuclear weapons, waiting for the go.

[Strelnikov_]

13. I disagree. They will not use nukes initially, particularly considering

they know we are not hitting anything of value and the whole exercise is for show.

The danger comes when things spin out of control.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, having nukes deployed on flying planes 24/7 went out with 'operation chrome dome'.

Personally, I don't think the military would go along with a nuclear first strike barring imminent attack.

[alfredo]

33. Can we trust the Air force to do the right thing?

Since shock and awe the ground forces have been getting all the glory.

[ensho]

48. no we can't trust the air force officers - they have turned neo con

and most are religiously insane.

[alfredo]

51. Yeah, they scare me.

[PinkyisBlue]

76. And before 2001, I thought the military would never attack another country without provocation.

All bets are off on this administration. Up is down, wrong is right, and nothing makes sense anymore.

[Echo In Light]

43. Salvation, anyone?

[chknltl]

9. Here is an earlier discussion in the DU

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=3051350

Perhaps my tinfoilhat is showing but it seems to me that IF we The People were aware of this it would become a priority big enough for our Democratic nominees to address. Perhaps someould should PM our nominees.

(E-mailing our congressmen wouldn't be so bad either...all snark aside, I am quite worried about this...)

[rhett o rick]

12. I am worried also. But what can Congress do? They have no way to stop Bush/Cheney from bombing

Iran. It would take a revolt in the military to stop it. And Bush has already taken steps to eliminate people that might stand in his way.

[chknltl]

16. Congress could pass legislation requiring permission...

...of the Congress in order for bush to go off on another war. (I think it was suggested before regarding the Iran issue but I do not recall by who or under what circumstances)

Another possibility would be for either Senator Obama or Clinton, (both together would be preferable), to come out with a speech alerting the American people of the potential that bush may be about to launch a strike against Iran. That would easily get the nations attention focused. (Criminals hate starting their dirty work while everyone is watching.) If he should still actually launch an attack, in spite of public outcry, We The People would be pretty unified in screaming the impeachment word so LOUD that a deaf Speaker Of The House will be left with no other recourse!

[rhett o rick]

18. First of all Congress can't pass schite. Second Bush would veto whatever mite get passed.

Not that that matters, because Bush could always write a signing statement and ignore whatever Congress does. Looks to me like Congress is toothless. Third, I think Cheney loves it when people watch him do his schite.

[bdamomma]

44. we need to do something but again, our Congress and House of Reps

are not in session. We need to contact our Reps in our states. This must be stopped.

[DCKit]

77. Damned if I didn't read that as "House of Perps" n/t

[bdamomma]

42. I am quite worried to, and our Congress and Reps are on vacation.

scary, but the only two home now is * and prick dick.

[lligrd]

11. Here Is One

Plan to Deal With Radiation Hazard Before Shoura Council
Ghazanfar Ali Khan, Arab News

RIYADH, 24 March 2008 — The Shoura Council has discussed a national plan to deal with any potential leakage of radioactive material in the Kingdom following warnings of possible attacks on Iran’s nuclear reactors.

More: http://www.arabnews.com/?page=1§ion=0&article=108173&d=24&m=3&y=2008

Another Interesting Story

Nuclear ships 'threat to Gulf'
Gulf Daily News - Mar 09 6:02 PM

THE region is at a serious risk of a major catastrophe due to military nuclear-powered and armed ships and submarines entering Gulf waters, an expert warned yesterday.The vessels "come and go as they please" with no one to monitor them, said Regional Organisation for the Protection of the Marine Environment executive secretary Dr Abdulrehman Al Awadhi.

"If there is a radiation leak in any of these vessels, it would spell disaster for the area," Dr Al Awadhi told the GDN.

"When the ship is in port or even in the waters off port, by the time anything could be done, it would be too late."

Dr Al Awadhi was speaking on the sidelines of the fourth annual workshop entitled 'Radiation Measurements Cross Calibration - Establishing Laboratory Standards in the Middle East', at the InterContinental Regency Hotel.

The three-day event is organised by the Marine Emergency Mutual Aid Centre, in collaboration with Bahrain University's Science College and US-based Sandia National Laboratories.

It aims at setting up radiation detection methodologies, looking at environmental sampling and analysis technologies and studying air monitoring methodologies and applications.

More: http://www.gulf-daily-news.com/Story.asp?Article=211090&Sn=BNEW&IssueID=30356

[rhett o rick]

14. Thanks for the link. But the other story you have there is hogwash.

Whoever said that doesn't know the difference between a radiation leak and a contamination leak. First of all a radiation leak on a US nuclear powered ship is extremely unlikely. The Navy nuclear power plants are many times safer than commercial plants, thanks to Adm Rickover. Second a radiation leak would not "spell disaster for the area". It would only harm someone on the ship standing in line with the leaking radiation.

[lligrd]

15. But It Is Interesting That They Have Been Meeting

about radiation leaks even if they hide it under contamination leaks. Don't you think? Also note that this was before Cheney's latest visit.

[rhett o rick]

19. Yes I agree. And thanks. nm

[FirstLight]

17. I would like to know the fallout pattern that would effect the US

Because we all know that this stuff doesn't go away, it flies through the winds patterns and goes AROUND THE GLOBE...

so, is this also a way for BushCo to take on "population control" in our country as well? :scared:
remember, within a week of Chernobyl, we were pouring out milk in Wisconsin..

(...and I can't help thinking about the homemade "camps" that have been refurbished recently... how would that play into millions being affected by nuclear sickness...sorry, :tinfoilhat: moment )

[gateley]

22. Could you explain your reference to

the homemade camps? I'm clueless.

And I think a :tinfoilhat: is going to be part of the uniform here shortly, so keep it strapped on. I'm putting mine on now.

[magellan]

24. The fallout pattern wouldn't directly affect the US

It would be indirect for years after around the globe, as you suggest.

Prevailing winds would carry the direct fallout across Afghanistan, Pakistan and India. But prevailing winds aren't always in force, so the entire surrounding region could be affected by intense radioactive fallout depending on which way the wind blows...including Saudi Arabia (hence their preps) and Iraq.

If they do this they'll kill millions instantly and subject millions more to lingering, awful deaths.

Do I need to mention we have troops in Afghanistan and Iraq?

[bdamomma]

45. We have to stop this.

this is pure madness.

[rhett o rick]

26. I believe we are talking about tactical nuclear arms. These are relatively small and would have

a fallout effect for the Mideast area. I think you are thinking of lots of large nuclear warheads which would throw contamination into the upper atmosphere and then carry around the world.

I want to make it clear that anything I mite say in this post that is anywhere near accurate is purely coincidental.

[gateley]

20. When asked about Iran after a presidential debate, Biden said:

"I promise you if this guy bombs Iran, watch what will happen in Afghanistan. Karzai will go. Watch what will happen in Pakistan."

"This guy" is Bush, naturally. Biden was making the point that we can't look at Iran as a single entity -- his "connect the dots" approach. If we DO something in Iran, that action will affect the entire region.

Here's a clip if you're interested - he gives a little more info. The Iran topic is about 1:45 into the clip.

http://www.whitehouse51.com/2008/03/post-drexel-debate-with-joe-biden.html

Regarding ANYTHING having to do with foreign affairs, I'm always interested in what Biden has to say. He's been telling it like it is all along, and doesn't pull any punches. Unfortunately, I haven't heard him comment on this yet.

[rhett o rick]

28. I think that Russia, China and possibly countries in Europe may step in if

we initiate a nuclear war, even if only tactical nucs are used.

[lligrd]

32. I've Always Wondered Why They Allowed Us To Attack Iraq. nt

[Virginia Dare]

53. The fundamentalists in Iran and Saudi Arabia..

wanted us to attack Iraq to take out Saddam. Israel was all for it too. It served all of their purposes.

[rhett o rick]

60. Agree, but why didn't Russia and China put up more of a stink? They want the oil

as bad as Cheney.

[Virginia Dare]

67. Perhaps because they could foresee what we couldn't

that it would ultimately make us weaker, both militarily and economically.

[rhett o rick]

69. Good point. nm

[Mountainman]

72. The end of the cold war in reverse. We are spending our way to the poor house.

And China holds the paper.

[gateley]

34. But would Bush and Cheney listen?

Although we are in a position to be swayed by threat of financial sanctions. I hope you're right.

[rhett o rick]

35. Bush/Cheney and the neocon corporatist cabal won't listen.

Financial sanctions won't be enough. What could we do if Russia or China moved troops to Iran to protect them from aggression? would the neocons be willing to play chicken with the big nuclear warheads?

[lutefisk]

54. Cheney/Bush are isolated, desperate, and the most hated men on the planet.

Only two things have ever increased their popularity: the death and destruction of 9-11-01 and the death and destruction of the Iraq Invasion. Consciously or sub-consciously, attacking Iran is likely a very attractive option for them at this point in their lives.

These two have the motive and the means. I don't see these two going quietly.

[rhett o rick]

59. Don't see them going quietly. But I don't think they are isolated. They have lots of big

corporation friends.

[bdamomma]

47. China and Russia will not sit idly by either.

but isn't this the PNAC goal, WW3, this must stop.

[bdamomma]

46. oh, I hope Biden is out there monitoring all this.

[JCMach1]

25. UAE is even closer to Iran and there has been no such action here...

I would doubt the veracity of these particular reports...

There was some idiot on CNN 360 this morning talking about the Iranians have Shia undermining governments all of the Gulf (and Egypt). Jeesh, people will believe anything. While it is true Iran is mucking about with Iraq, the domino BS just won't fly.

Can we get some real ME experts in please? These idiots have NO clue.

[gateley]

27. Biden's a real expert -

and if I'm understanding you correctly, he DOES believe any action will have a domino effect. See my post before yours.

[JCMach1]

71. I did not get the CNN 'expert's name, but he is some

Australian??? with a noticeable broken nose... I did not catch his name, but he deserved a kick in the ass for the RW spew he was selling.

I would listen to Biden and he certainly is a decent source and I do respect his opinion... Honestly though, having lived and worked in the Middle-East and hung out with that 'Arab Street' they are always talking about I have come to conclusion that anyone claiming to be a ME expert will be wrong 95% of the time.

The think-tankers have NO CLUE because things have shifted so quickly here even in the past 5 years.

Let me repeat: THEY HAVE NO CLUE.

[gateley]

78. I take your point -- you're undoubtedly right. nt

[bdamomma]

52. yes, I would to hear more too.

from the experts.

[gateley]

30. Beware the New Moon

A response to the article that HeresyLives linked to:

Two words: 'New Moon'

The next new moon is 07 April, if they're gonna do it this lunar cycle it will be 07 APR /- 24h when night vision and stealth tech advantages are maximized by the new moon.

My advice to any/everyone in the Gulf on or about 07 April, 'DUCK' !

[rhett o rick]

36. Duck and don't breath for about a week. nm

[lonestarnot]

39. did you leave off the duct tape your nose and mouth?

[rhett o rick]

58. Thank you. Or put a plastic bag over your head and duct tape it to your neck. nm

[bdamomma]

49. if this action is even considered "ducking" will not help them.

by any chance with Fallon leaving on March 31st will he alert anyone on this pre emptive action of Iran?

prick dick is up to same old lies again.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080325/pl_afp/usirannuclearpolitics_080325140237

[gateley]

57. Yep, He's workin' it. nt

[mzmolly]

31. "Bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" ~ John McCain

Perhaps they think if they start another war they'll not only make some bucks, but have a better job of beating our nominee?

[L. Coyote]

37. More false flags!! 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers,

4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers,
4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers,
4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers,
4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers,
4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers,
4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers,
4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers,
4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers,
4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers,
4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers,
4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers,
4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers,
4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers,
4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers,
4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers,
4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers,
4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers,
4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers,
4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers,
4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers, 4,000 dead soldiers

[lonestarnot]

38. K & R

Jack O Lantern's visit was enough for me.

[tom_paine]

40. Comrade, it is not pwermitted to speak of Commisar Bushler nor his Politburo of cronies

in that way.

SSSsssh!

[femrap]

50. I read at

www.urbansurvival.com yesterday that the date for attack is April 6...orthodox Easter (I believe). And they plan on using nukes.

The blogs in Germany are discussing it...guess it takes a day for us to start chatting about it. These evil people have wanted to nuke something for years. They are sadistic psychopaths. Pray that the military refuses. I think this is why Fallon quit.

Fallout would affect Pakistan and India as well, I think.

I went to hear Scott Ritter speak a couple of months ago and he said they are all set to attack Iran and that the time frame was the end of March and first of April.

The military must stop them.

[Echo In Light]

55. Ritter's been on the mark for yrs...although I hope he's wrong here

[femrap]

56. I think it may depend on

if they can find some rapture-loving air force guys to do it. And that thought scares the hell out of me.

Ever since I read that yesterday, I have been on edge.

[librechik]

61. dunno, but assuming that "prevailing winds" thread is probably connected

Cheney sux

[GreenPartyVoter]

62. Is it the real deal or a wag the dog?

[Supersedeas]

65. our soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan would need to prepare for such a thing

[Virginia Dare]

68. Oh well, too bad for them, they volunteered..

that's what the dark lord thinks anyway I'm sure.

[warren pease]

73. "With enough shovels..."

That's the title of a must-read 1983 book by Robert Sheer. It refers to the statement in the snip below made by one of the legions of nuclear-happy loons who work at the Pentagon and dream up excuses for the inexcusable. This one was intended to soothe a worried public during the Raygun era when his staff of cold warriors -- including Cheney and Rumsfeld, of course -- were drawing up plans to fight and win a protracted nuclear war.

In the 1950s, the years of "duck and cover" and backyard bomb shelters. And in the Reagan years when, amidst talk of winnable nuclear wars, Pentagon official T. K. Jones was justly ridiculed for his comment that we could survive nuclear war by digging a hole, and topping it with a door and three feet of dirt. "If there are enough shovels to go around, everybody's going to make it," he said. In the 1950s and 1980s, the American people eventually turned against these Potemkin plans, worried that they could engender a false sense of security in the face of the ultimate weapon.

That's from a July 2007 article in thebulletin.org, an online version of the Bulletin of Atomic Scientists. You can read the entire article here.

One thing I've always wondered, though... Who's doing the shoveling? And who's the last one remaining in the open after all the holes have been dug, the doors in place and the soil piled back on top and tamped down?

In a just world, that would be Cheney. In this world, it's more likely to be a Mexican laborer who got conned by his sleazy landscape contractor boss into unwittingly sacrificing himself to save those with pink skins and a little cash to spread around.


wp

[blues90]

74. I have heard about it a few times

But the political battle has the main seat in all media talk .