Dying a slow and painful death from HIV - and what a RW'er told my wife tonight about it...

[The Straight Story]

My wife's best friend in CA, James, is gay and has HIV. He called her today with some bad news - he has a staph infection, has had it a long time, and it has gotten really bad. If the new treatment they are trying does not work he may not last 8 months.

There are a lot more medical details, I will leave those to the wife as that was her field. She has worked in HIV clinics and sat with gay men dying, she lost many a friend she came to know at the clinic when she worked there. Now her best friend is getting much worse, and that on top of her disease is taking a toll on her (which is one reason we are moving to CA, to be near family and her friend).

She was too upset to do girl scouts tonight so our neighbor handled it for her (they are both daisy leaders). She came over tonight and my wife filled her in on it all. Her reply?

"Well, people make choices in life and they have to live with it." Basically, he chose to be gay and promiscuous and sorry about his luck.

Compassion? Love? Nope. She feels for my wife as James is the only real friend she has left. That is about it.

I talked to James a little while ago, I help him and his grandmother a lot with computer issues. He is trying to be upbeat about it all and is anxious for us to be there. I am going to buy plane tickets this week and send the wife and daughter our 4 weeks early so she can be there with him - and he loves our daughter dearly (last few times out they have stayed with him and went to the beach, disney land, etc, they both love him a lot).

I will be here alone, packing up an entire house to move, and our rw neighbor does not even begin to grasp what love is. James, sick as he is, offered to fly out here and drive with me to CA in the rental truck so I would not have to drive alone (well, not alone, two dogs and a bird in front seat with me....).

The only compassion you find on the right is for corporations.

[walldude]

1. Man, sorry to hear about the friend

I've been through a couple of long and painful deaths myself and it's not easy. Then to hear such a callous response, it's like getting slapped in the face.

edit for speeling

[WCGreen]

2. Reply that the soldiers who enlisted made a choice....

See how that person likes that...

Cause when you really come down to it, if you accept one, you have to accept the other...

[The Straight Story]

4. Good point

They are the stereotype rw'ers - love nascar, jesus as long as they don't have to live as he said (ie, bitch about others based on the bible but won't live their life by the same rules), etc.

They have good points, and they are our friends - but sometimes what they say shocks me.

[mitchum]

37. Actually, THAT is what I hear when I ask seemingly able-bodied...

chickenhawks why they aren't backing up their glorious leader.

[opiate69]

3. Un-fucking-believable...

You certainly are a better man than I, for if someone had the temerity to say something like that in my presence, well, let's just say they would have gained an intimate (and painful) understanding of "making choices in life and living with it."

[The Straight Story]

6. I was out of the room at the time

The wife told me about it after she left (her daughters are staying the night with us tonight).

My wife was grateful that she covered the meeting and did not want to leave on bad terms, in about a week she and my daughter will be out of here so she just wants to keep the peace and she accepts them for who they are.

Some people are just that way.

[opiate69]

7. Unfortunately true.. "some people are just that way"

Thank whomever that they are a very small minority... Cheers to you and yours..

[NobleCynic]

16. I'm not certain such a response was necessarily a lack of compassion

Few people truly lack empathy. It could be a way of internalizing the inherent conflict of believing in a just god and bad things happening to good people. If god is just, he must have been doing something wrong. Or so the line of logic would go. If so, such words could stem from an internal philosophical conflict regarding the existence of suffering and disease, rather than simple homophobia or bigotry.

The end result is the same regardless however, disdain and numbness toward the health and well being of another human being. And such a thing is not to be idealized. Tolerating such an attitude requires the patience and understanding of a saint, your wife must be a truly kind person.

In any case, so much would depend on the tone of voice that person used when speaking to your wife. It was made in a flippant manner rather than after reflection and introspection, then it is a reprehensible comment surely.

(edited for spelling)

[Raksha]

5. Well, it's obvious that YOU know what love is.

Not too many people would do that for a friend. Some wouldn't even do it for a family member.

You are truly a good person.

[The Straight Story]

10. I am sure some would disagree with that here

I do get into arguments at times with people in the glbt community here :)

To me though, you do the best you can for people - whether you agree with them or not. Mom was that way, no matter what people did she was always kind to them and helped them out. She might bitch about em and what they did, but she never let folks down.

Her funeral was packed - because so many people were touched by her. My best friend is gay, something she did not know (nor did I for years) when he and I were growing up. When she found out, she shrugged it off and treated him like she always had. She did not like all the hoopla of gay parades and such, just not her thing - but that did not mean she did not love him or anyone else who was gay.

When she died (and my best friend is named James as well) James came to the funeral and sat with my wife and daughter the whole time and took care of them and me. He is still down, as I am, about mom passing on. He knew she grew up in a different era, and was not 100% on all things gay, but he knew too that she would never judge him over it or treat him different. He was to him more a mom than his own mom, who still does not know he is gay.

[Raksha]

35. Hell, I argue with people all the time!

Not so much with gays and lesbians, though...I tend to stay out of that kind of argument. I just don't see what purpose it would serve. I know I used to be a lot more homophobic when I was younger, but that's just because everyone was. Homosexuality was still considered a sign of serious neurosis back then. As I grew older, though, I started thinking along the lines of "Hell, what business is it of mine what people do in private? It's no skin off my nose. Every human being deserves to be treated like one."

Re >>To me though, you do the best you can for people - whether you agree with them or not. Mom was that way, no matter what people did she was always kind to them and helped them out. She might bitch about em and what they did, but she never let folks down.<<

It sounds like you definitely take after your mother. You can agree or not agree with what people do or say, but how can you "disagree" with what people ARE? That would be like somebody "disagreeing" with me for being left-handed (which they did, in the past). That's why I tend to stay out of those discussions.

[Demobrat]

8. Having lost two dear friends to AIDS

if somebody said that to me I don't think I could ever speak to them in a civil manner ever again. No, I know I couldn't. They'd be out of my life as of that moment, and forever. I do have to wonder, though, about the habits of this woman and her family. Anybody overweight? A smoker? Drinker? Would she say the same if they died of a heart attack, lung cancer or liver disease? How about if they drove too fast and died in a wreck? All lifestyle choices, after all.

[The Straight Story]

11. Actually,

the mom and one daughter are overweight. She tends to be an on and off person. Good, then 'bad' if you will. Incredibly kind at times, then cold at others.

Her husband drinks some, but then, so do I :)

My wife and her have had plenty of good and fun times together, but things like tonight just drive the wife crazy. She will be glad to get back out west, and while angry will miss her as well. She was here to help out with Halloween parties, etc.

It is weird how some people operate - nice and cool, then cold and callous.

[Demobrat]

29. Well, when one of them gets diabetes

or high blood pressure, or develops heart problems, it will be their own fault due to their lifestyle choices. I hope somebody reminds them of that, early and often.

[NanceGreggs]

9. My first reaction to your story was, of course, anger ...

... but after I had a minute to think about it, my reaction was incredible pity -- for your neighbour.

She will never know the beauty of true friendship. She will never know what it is to have a James in her life, willing to drive with her to California -- or anywhere on earth -- just so she won't be alone.

She will know the joy that comes from feeling compassion for others, or sleeping peacefully at the end of a day, knowing you've done the right thing by a fellow human being.

She is to be pitied for her incredible loss, and we can't imagine what such hard-heartedness does to one's soul.

But then, "People make choices in life and they have to live with it."

And she will have to live with her choice. What a miserable way to go through life.

[The Straight Story]

13. She was a nurse until recently (an injury)

And from her view 'so many people do things which lead them to be sick'.

She saw it day in and out - people who smoke, overeat, etc and so on - to her this is but an extension of that.

I guess people get used to suffering at some point and maybe this is how they deal...I hope I don't ever get that cold.

[NanceGreggs]

15. Don't worry ...

... you won't.

[Skittles]

12. rightwing freaks make me sick

that woman doesn't deserve to even KNOW your wife

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

14. I Feel For Your Wife's Friend In CA

I imagine this woman is a churchgoer, and thinks gay people are sinners of some sort. Whatever twisted logic they use. Sad and pathetic, and so uncaring. I also suppose they believe that holding such lack of sympathy for a fellow human being, somehow squares them with God, and that only wholesome, virtuous folk like themselves will get to some higher place in an afterlife, while they neglect to show compassion while living here on earth today.

If your friend should pass, I hope he doesn't suffer.

[The Straight Story]

17. You know what is really sad?

She is not a church goer and does not like them 'holy roller' types!

I just don't get it.

[EFerrari]

25. Some people don't get it until the Big Hand touches them directly.

I'm glad we'll be neighbors. :)

[donheld]

18. So sorry about your friend.

[lligrd]

19. I Would Take It As A Sign That You Made The Right Choice

in moving. California may not be perfect but I doubt you find too many with that attitude out here (at least I don't know any.) Actually I feel sorry for the lady, she is just trying to make herself feel better by falsely thinking that only those who deserve it get sick. I bet she also falls for every fearmongering technique Bush uses.

And a great big welcome to CA.

[enigmatic]

20. I've had a close relative and 2 good friends die of complications from AIDS

It was 3 of the absolute worst experiences I've ever had to go through. Seeing these genuinely great human beings who I loved suffer so much changed me forever.

One of 2 friends had a family that essentially abandoned him after he came out; only his brother and a cousin were there at the hospice out of an family of 4 sisters and both parents. They thought he deserved what he got because of who he was, and this was from a non-religious family, too. I was there when my friend passed; I'm never, ever going to forget that.

There are very few people I hate; it's simply not worth it 99 percent of the time for me. But outside of his brother and that cousin, I hated his family for leaving him to die, and to this minute, I still do.

[Bridget Burke]

42. Several friends died from AIDS. One came from a large Mexican-American family.

All I saw from the family was sorrow. All the little nieces & nephews were going to miss their beloved uncle.

The funeral was, of course, Catholic. The priest didn't say a word about "lifestyle choices."

[ninkasi]

21. You have written before about your wife's health problems

Now she, and you, and adding another person to your list of those you feel compassion for. What age was your neighbor when she decided that she was heterosexual? Yeah...in case anybody needs it, that's sarcasm. I was born hetero, it was never a choice for me. Some people are born being attracted to those of the same sex, and in my mind, since people are born with a certain sexual preference, that's normal as well.
We can change some of our traits, but I can't change my blood type, or the hair color I was born with, and people who are gay can't change their feelings, either. It's something they were born with, like I was born with a certain blood type, and hair color.

What's sad, is that a dear friend, one who was very close to my daughter when they were 14, is gay, and although my family and I accepted him for who he was, that was 25 years ago, and we have to keep fighting the same fight. After all those years, why do some people feel that they have the right to tell him that he can't marry the man he's been with for over 15 years?

It's outrageous, to have to keep fighting the same battles, started by the same people, religious fundamentalists. I have nothing against people with strong beliefs, but they should only be able to exercise those beliefs regarding their own actions. I refuse to have other people dictate to me whether it's right or wrong to live with, or marry, a certain person. Aren't there enough problems in the world, global warming, poverty, hunger, war, things like that, to occupy the fundie's time?

[Up2Late]

22. That has to be one of the dumbest statements I've ever heard...on a regular basis, but try not to...

...stay mad at this woman, for she knows not of what she speaks. In other words, she just VERY Ignorant regarding HIV/AIDS and
"the Gays." It's very common among "average" Americans. You, however, sound like one of the few "Exceptional" American, best evidence of that, you're here at DU.

Most likely, she has several relatives "in the closet," she just doesn't know it yet. Hopefully some day she will understand that what she said was REALLY stupid, but for now, she clueless.

See, the thing is, and most people never realize this but, anger and/or hate only hurt you. The ignorant woman who said these stupid things not only hasn't got a clue about how stupid what she said was, but it's also because of that ignorance that she hasn't got a clue about how hurtful her statement was.

I think the lesson about how pointless anger and hate are, I think was probably the most important lesson I learned while studying Buddhism. When a Buddhist says I have Compassion for my the person who wronged me, it might seem like a weird thing to do, but it's actually that we feel sorry for this person, because she hasn't a clue about how many people she hurts with her ignorant comments.

One bit of advice I would like to give though, tell your wife and friend to be very careful about taking OTC pain medicines, like Tylenol, Advil and even aspirin in high doses. They are not nearly as safe as we've all been lead to believe.

My Best Friend was slowly dying of AIDS, last year, but then suddenly got very sick, fell into a Coma 2 days later and died 2 days after that. His family told everyone he died of a Blood Infection, which wrecked his Liver and Kidneys, which caused him to OD on Tylenol, but I think they got the cause wrong.

Recent studied, and historical data show that taking an overdose of Tylenol, especially if mixed with only a little alcohol, is actually quite easy to do. And what is the result of an OD of Tylenol? It destroys the Liver and without quick action to rid the system of the toxic level of Tylenol, the Kidneys fail about 2 days after the Liver at which point the victim is as good as dead.

I'm nearly 100% sure now that my friend did die of an OD of Tylenol. I recently posted about this in my DU Journal and there is more background there too, if you go back to the July/August 2006 time period.

And don't forget, you can still be her best friend. Always remember that she still has you, it sucks a whole lot more when your Best Friend dies and you're single, like me. :grouphug:

[lligrd]

23. Funny Thing - The Jist Of These Remarks Is

we should feel sorry for the lady who doesn't understand. I am in complete agreement. People like her are in need of some serious education. Best wishes and prayers for your friend in his physical illness and your ex-neighbor for her mental illness.

[Chovexani]

24. My uncle died of AIDS when I was 8

This was in the '80s when there was so much fear and ignorance. We had trouble getting support from our church. There was a lot of homophobia involved (black churches tend to turn a blind eye to gays as long as they direct the choir and keep their mouths shut). My mom was going through a divorce and she singlehandedly took care of him when he left the VA.

Watching someone you love die from this horrible disease is probably the worst experience you can go through, barring dying from it yourself. My heart goes out to you, your wife and James. Just remember while the reich wing Xian Taliban is out there preaching hate there is still love in the world and it comes from each of us.

[depakid]

26. In return I have very little sympathy

for right wing assholes.

Crocodile tears is all they'll get from me.

[CrazyOrangeCat]

27. That is horrible.

K&R

[Dora]

28. Your love for your wife is inspiring.

Thank you for sending her to California to be with her friend in his time of need.

Good luck to you, and to your family.

[roguevalley]

30. People like this, they believe they live in a safe bubble, that if they

believe they are safe, they are. They don't know that you can get sick so easily. Consider the wolfgang puck thing with hepatitis. My mom got it in the 1960's accidentally and recovered, but it was very, very hard. I am so sorry for your friend. He should be surrounded by all the people he knew, loving him and helping him. But too often it doesn't happen. He will some day be at peace and in God's love. The rest of the judgers? They will never see God's love, His light, His grace. Your friend will. All he did was get sick. It wasn't a choice or his fault. He didn't deserve it. No one does.

The only really sick person in this story is the sanctomonious bitch woman. Hug your family for me and know all of you are in our thoughts and prayers. The world isn't fair or decent sometimes but people like you are.

[MountainLaurel]

31. Sounds like one of the "AIDS is a gift from Gawd" sorts

I went to church with in the 1980s (including the pastor, who taught this from the pulpit).

Evil fuckers.

:mad:

[Xenotime]

32. That rw neighbor is going to have the shock of their life...

when their child grows up and becomes somebody other than their little * driven way of thinking. Then how will the cope? Who will the blame? It's too bad ignorance is not a punishable offense.

[GoneOffShore]

33. Ah but ignorance is its own reward.

[kikiek]

34. My best wishes to your family and friend. I believe people who think like that have to

distance themselves from anything that resembles caring. When you blame a victim you absolve yourself of any kind of action which might require time, energy, emotions, and often feelings of frustration. I am grateful for people like yourselves. I believe our rewards are in the here and now and when we help others abundant.

[tjwash]

36. I lost my first wife to AIDS.

It was 1987. AIDS was a "gay plague" at the time. She was an IV drug user that got it from a dirty needle. Even though we had been divorced for a few years beforehand, when I found out, and as I watched her dwindle away to nothing, it was emotionally as if everything that had driven us apart in the past had never happened. I was racked with feelings of pain, despair, and sheer utter helplessness at the entire situation.

I know what your wife is going through right now. From someone who has been there, I offer her my sheer heartfelt condolences. I must also say that she is a much better man than I am. A "friend" gave me the "disease of a lifestyle" line, and tried to tell me that "she brought in on herself", ended up picking his up teeth off of the floor shortly afterwards. I have not spoken to him since.

I'm sorry for your neighbor. He's an ignorant, uneducated pig that knows nothing about hard times, or watching a fellow human being suffer. Anyone who is ignorant to the point to which they would say anything as unfeeling as that instead of just showing the good taste to just keep his mouth shut, is a boor. Likewise, anyone who is so ignorant as to think that a disease has a "lifestyle" or a "sexual preference" is also as equally deserving of disdain.

Prayers to your wife, and to her friend. No one deserves to go through what they are both going through. Cancer, AIDS, TB, hell, ANY long drawn out disease is just plain unfair to catch. It sounds as if you are married to a strong lady, and you are a good man for supporting and standing by her at this painful point in her life.

[hedgehog]

38. I think it's a defense mechanism for some people.

If they follow all the rules, nothing bad will ever happen to them. Confirming that someone in trouble broke one of the rules is their way of proving that they will stay protected. Unfortunately, no one has ever lived forever regardless of how many good habits they had!

[Morgana LaFey]

39. There's an alternative healthcare treatment

that might work. It's supposed to work on staph, strep, many bacteria, virus, fungus and even parasites when many other things will not.

It's colloidal silver. And you'll probably see a lot of people hurry and tell us what bogus stuff it is (tho they haven't tried it!!), but you could also do a little googling yourself and find out that it works for a lot of things. If I were in your friends' place I most certainly would give it a try. What's the worst that could happen?

Better yet is ionic silver, and I've heard one product called Sovereign Silver recommended. But it's also possible to brew your own IF you have the right equipment (you want silver colloids or ionic solutions, you do NOT want to make silver compounds!)

Just a thought. Best wishes to your friend.

Here's a thread discussing it: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=245x37511

[kikiek]

41. I see colloidal silver a lot for wounds. I have only seen it externally in the packing

of large ones. Interesting that it is taken orally also. I work end of life nursing and so I see my fair share of wounds, and it is not uncommon to see colloidal silver.

[Morgana LaFey]

43. One of the most heartwarming uses I've seen

is for Lyme Disease. (Anecdotal) Reports from sufferers are that it works when, as you probably know, pretty much nothing else does. It's also reportedly helpful for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, which is the Epstein-Barr virus.

I haven't had a cold for over a decade, in part because I use CS at the first sign of a sore throat, etc.

Have a look.

[kikiek]

44. I will thanks.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

40. It's impossible to be so callous about AIDS if one knows some of the

wonderful people who have died of it. I think of the man who invited me for Thanksgiving once when I had nowhere else to go, the ones who helped me move when I had to vacate my rental on 30 days notice, the choir director who pushed our choir to new levels of achievement and told great stories in an Arkansas drawl, and one who is still alive and keeps making great refreshments for church events, even as he has developed new and worrying symptoms.

A large part of fundamentalism is self-righteousness unmoderated by empathy or even appreciation for human diversity.