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Dr. Strange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:10 PM
Original message
Early retirement selfish, unpatriotic
When I hear my fellow baby boomers gleefully talk about their elaborate plans to retire ASAP, head for the Tuscan hills, or otherwise continue their lifelong quest for "self-actualization," I have to bite my tongue.

It's not that I'm all work and no play. But there's just something - make that lots of things - wrong, in general, with retiring at 55, 62 or even 65. I would go so far as to call it profoundly selfish and unpatriotic.

Dropping out of the work force while still in one's prime means ending one's contributions to America's strength, mortgaging our children's and grandchildren's future and leeching trillions of taxpayer dollars from the economy. An exaggeration? Perhaps. Some people, it is true, do not have the good health to continue working. And yes, many jobs are pretty miserable; it's easy to understand the desire to say, "Arrivederci, 9-to-5."

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/bal-op.retirement26mar26,0,2827538.story


Kudos on the "unpatriotic" charge.

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:
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LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. And I'm proud to be one of them there unpatriotic baby boomers... n/t
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. The author must know a lot of
independently wealthy people - the Boomers I'm acquainted with (myself included) will be working long past middle age in order to make ends meet. Goodnesss gracious, I'm so relieved to know we're not 'unpatriotic'. :eyes:
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adjwilli Donating Member (63 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. One could also claim...
You could argue equally as well that retiring early is good for the younger generations as they can move up the corporate ladders and start to pay off the debts you guys left us with.
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Dr. Strange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Exactly.
Staying in the work force longer could mean one less spot for someone else.
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #3
32. Seriously
I'm with adjwilli

Please enjoy your retirement. Have a life for once. I'm ready to retire myself hah. Only 25-35 more years to go.

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Wcross Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
4. Gee, I was planning on dropping out at 54?????
I really hate work. I won't be leeching taxpayer dollars when I do it either.
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RB TexLa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. ending one's contributions to America's strength???
Edited on Thu Mar-27-08 01:22 PM by RGBolen
They own nothing to America. What nationalist garbage.



And it's their life. That is just like idiots who say I don't contribute to the future of this country because I do not raise children and say it's selfish, neither is selfish.
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TZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. People that write stuff like this
Usually are hypocrites of the worst sort. I bet you anything if this person won the lottery tomorrow they would retire.
The other reason this pisses me off is the knowledge that even if I wanted to retire, the likely hood of me being able to do that before about 68 is near impossible.
I guess its patriotic to suffer and break your back in jobs even as one ages and gets health issues.
:banghead:
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
8. what a load of horseshit
every good desirable job that a boomer refuses to retire from, is a chance for promotion and experience lost for the people coming up who are younger

the REAL problem with early retirement is that you can't do it because you cannot buy any health insurance coverage in your 50s and until age 65, so it is no longer possible unless you're bill gates or something

almost everyone i know retired in their 50s is retired NOT by choice but by force -- they were removed from their jobs either because of a disability or because of a merger and, either way, were never employable again

nobody retires in their 50s for the fun of it any more or because they don't want to "contribute," if somebody has made so much from their job that they can retire that young and still pay the insurance, by all means, why shouldn't they retire and give another person that same chance?
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RebelOne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
9. I must be ultra patriotic. I'm still working full-time at 69.
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stubtoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #9
56. By choice? Because you enjoy it?
If so then good for you!
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:25 PM
Response to Original message
10. Bwhahahahahaha
When my husband retired he began volunteering for after school programs. At one time he was volunteering at six schools a week. He volunteered at two schools on Wednesdays. He also worked with parents and kids on the weekends on everything from chess to basketball. When he wasn't volunteering at schools (and often paying for expenses out of his own pocket) he worked on political campaigns, local issues and gave talks to students from elementary school to graduating law students.

I didn't know he was selfish and unpatriotic until today. :rofl:

fwiw, he recently re-entered the work force. He's got four daughters in college now so it was inevitable.
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Dr. Strange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. He should demand that the schools pay him.
Tell them that he'll have to pay taxes on it, which will then go toward the schools, so the schools will end up bringing in more money! Brilliant, no?

:rofl:
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Absolutely brilliant!
Foolproof logic too!

He should've also charged them for the time to and from each school and demand that they compensate him for all materials because then they'd all been helping the local economy, which in turn would have to pay taxes on, which would go toward the school.

Brilliant.
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ProfessorGAC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #10
62. Well, Now you Do
That Sun piece proves it. Why does your husband hate america?!?!?

BTW: Good on him. Volunteering at the schools is a cool thing to do.

The Professor
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BOSSHOG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
11. I retired at 48 and haven't worked a lick in six years
Strange way to question my patriotism. My wife and I did 25 years of sound fiscal management and planning, that and a bit of stock market luck puts me where I am today, fucking off and posting here. I also have a little time to volunteer at the SPCA and the recyling center. Selfish, you bet your ass. And my neighbors love me, I'm the one man neighborhood watch 9 days out of 10. Right wing assholes questioned my patriotism in 02 (and got their asses nailed to the bulkhead.) Now this. Lordy its BUD Time.
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
74. Ya unpatriotic slug
After 25 years of free ocean cruises, with all that fine dining, you think you deserve a break?

I think we could still find you some rust to scrape, and some grey paint to cover it.

(Bud time? I hope I remembered to put some on ice ...)

:hi:
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Booster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
12. I had this conversation with a guy where I worked (I'm retired now).
He was 72 made about $6000 a month at work, collected soc sec and was on Medicare with the company insurance as his second provider. I told him he was being selfish cause he was not allowing younger people to come into the company. He said he didn't have anything else to do - I told him to find something else to do and give the job to someone else. To me that's the most selfish you can get.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. Wrong on so many things. First SS and Medicare isn't driving up the national
debt...George Bush's wars are driving up the national debt to the tune of several $trillion. "We also could keep more people in a labor force that would no longer be growing appreciably if not for immigrants." If the labor force is not growing, then why have wages been stagnate for years?

"That added income would provide about $800 billion in additional tax revenues, and reduce government benefit costs by at least $100 billion in 2045...". Here's another plan for you: reverse the Bush tax cuts to the wealthiest 2% of the population and that would increase tax revenues.

He suggests that those taking SS before 66 be taxed more heavily on that income. Only those with incomes above $25,000 (individual) pay any taxes on their SS benefits. From the SSA, "Less than one-third of our current beneficiaries pay taxes on their benefits."

And as mentioned before, we, oldsters, should keep working and prevent all those college grads from taking a well paying job?

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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
15. How is someone who retires early "leeching taxpayer dollars"?
They're still not going to qualify for SS until age 65 or 67, unless they're disabled. If you are lucky enough to retire at that age you are self-funding it.
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stubtoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #15
57. Exactly. n/t
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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #15
70. Let me get my "twisted" cap on for a sec
I think what the jerk is saying, is you aren't paying into social security or medicare, so you are selfish because you aren't contributing but you will collect at 65 or whatever the age is when you retire "officially". I think that is what he is saying, but who knows.
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subterranean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #15
71. TRILLIONS of taxpayer dollars!!
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #15
79. And they paid into social security
while working, so they are only getting back what they were supposed to. Social Security is insurance, you're collecting on your contributions so it's not taking from someone else any more than he who gets sick but has insurance is "leeching" from the healthy.

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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
16. And hey, what's with this silly idea that child labor is a bad thing?
Why are we letting those unpatriotic little fuckers laze around in school all day when they could be put to work in factories? Those nimble little fingers could quickly assemble gadgets and our economy would be back on track in no time! :sarcasm:
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stubtoe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #16
58. lol!
:rofl:
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earth mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:52 PM
Response to Original message
18. This reads like governmental propaganda to me.
Gotta guilt trip people into retiring later since they can't force them to...yet! :puke:
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IowaGirl Donating Member (539 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:54 PM
Response to Original message
19. If I had a nickel for every friend forced into early retirement because their company didn't want to
pay their increased health care benefits anymore, I could retire! :rofl: Those poor souls are trying to scrape by on reduced pensions, and part-time "consulting" jobs. They still have mortgages and kids in college. My elderly 88 year old mother was dropped by my father's health insurance when the company union decided to cut the retires loose from their benefits. She's now paying for health insurance with social security.
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zorahopkins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
20. I Was FORCED To Retire Early
Edited on Thu Mar-27-08 01:57 PM by zorahopkins
I was forced to retire early.

The misogynist I was working for hated me. He harassed and belittled me. He even threatend me physically.

When I complained to the higher-ups in the US Government agency I worked for, I became "the problem".

Things got worse, and I was FORCED to retire.

Don't tell me I am unpatriotic.

I tried to stay working, but I was not allowed to do so!
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
21. I gleefully dropped out at 55. But, I've never been patriotic.
Working for a living is a highly overrated pastime.
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Nay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
34. Working for a living is indeed overrated, and I wish I could have
retired at 55. Now, at 57, I will be slaving away for at least 5 more years. I hope to become decidedly unpatriotic at age 62. My job pays well but sucks, I have worked or gone to school (or both together) since I was 15, and I am SICK SICK SICK of the world of work and all the crazy bastards I have to deal with.

I yearn for a nice hammock and a good book. And, frankly, the world can go to hell.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. We think alike.
Both my wife, and I, are readers. And, our idea of an ideal retirement was/is a lot of good books to read and a quiet, lovely, place to read them.

3 acres of forest and meadows, nice house, and stacks of books.

Life is wonderful.

The only time I've been bored is when I was working from age 15 - 55.

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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #21
83. working for idiots sucks
and since most companies are run by idiots...

I have been an independent contractor for most of my "work", either legit or for cash. Right now, I am only earning bonus karma points for being a full-time caregiver. When Hubby passes on to the next plane and I must support myself, it will be back in the underground economy- piano lessons, selling my paintings, etc. I hope someday to be eligible for his SS benefits as a widow.

Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
-Samuel Johnson, 1775
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:56 PM
Response to Original message
22. interesting
"Rep. Jerry Weller (R-Ill.), who has faced ethics questions regarding his Nicaraguan investments, officially announced today that he will not seek another term. ... He said he wants to spend more time with his wife, Zury Rios de Weller, and their baby girl."

"Rep. Dave Weldon (R-Fla.), a physician, announced today that he'll retire at the end of the 110th Congress to return to his medical practice and spend more time with his family. Ironically, his announcement came hours after his 21-year-old daughter, Katie Weldon, was arrested and jailed after allegedly assaulting a Brevard County bar employee with her shoe."

"State Rep. Todd Baxter, R-Austin, announced his resignation Thursday, citing his intentions to spend more time with his family. ...
Political analyst and Quorum Report editor Harvey Kronberg said Baxter was leaving because he is carrying too much "DeLay baggage" to be successful in the 2006 election. Baxter was one of the Republican legislators to receive illegal corporate funding from DeLay's political action committee, Texans for a Republican Majority."

"The youngest member of New Jersey's congressional delegation says he decided to step down at the end of his term because his children need him, not because he's shying away from a tough re-election fight. ... Rep. Mike Ferguson, a 37-year-old Republican from New Providence, is giving up the 7th District seat in January, when his fourth term ends."

etc
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chixydix Donating Member (269 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
23. Glurk. I retired at 62 and don't apologize for it to anybody.
If I'm lucky I MIGHT just get back the money I paid into SS...even at par, before I croak...inflation be damned. :eyes:
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NutmegYankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #23
36. Isn't that a normal age?
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CreekDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
24. I wish Rush would retire
:hide:
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Dr. Strange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. They can't.
They're working men: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztv8lsgpmmI

You unpatriotic minderass!

:rofl:
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
25. The author of this piece of crap obviously works at a desk
there is no way I could have stayed in nursing until the age of 70. Working conditions are brutal and they take a severe toll on one's body.

Perhaps Mr. Patriotic would reconsider if he had to get off his dead ass and do the grunt work that keeps this country going.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
26. the fucking capitalists retired me against my will
at 50.
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Ishoutandscream2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
28. I'm done in 8 years, at age 55
Fuck the author of that trash. And I might add, the people responsible for mortgaging our future are Bush and his Republican cronies.
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Upfront Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
29. Good jobs are needed.
When I retired early someone was hired to take my place in a high paying Union job with a great company. In case you wonder that would be Dow Corning, in Midland Michigan. The union mentioned is Local 12934 USWA, a great locaL in a great Union. This company and Union are still going strong. Perhaps you should re-think?
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lumberjack_jeff Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
30. A) how ludicrous - what the hell does a paycheck have to do with patriotism?
B) getting out of the workforce allows someone else to get in.
C) it is extremely difficult for a person over 40 to find work in the careers for which they are trained both because their training has a short shelf-life (they don't even call us drafters anymore - we're now "cadd technicians". Are writers "word processor technicians"?)
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livetohike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
31. Jealous! I retired at 49. Wish I could have done it sooner
:-)
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
33. I'll be retired in 8 years...at 48 years old.
...and I'm moving to Costa Rica.
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warren pease Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
35. Another steaming pile of corporatist horseshit, brought to you by the overrated "work ethic"...
... which I've never actually seen practiced by anyone above a director level.

I assume the work ethic and its numerous derivatives has been around forever in some form or other, always bogus and always ignored by the ruling class, even as they preach its value to their wage and debt slaves in hopes of staving off the revolution for another generation while keeping their heads attached to their necks.

It's likely it was resurrected and popularized by frowning Calvinists and sexually ambivalent Puritans with sharpened brass rods permanently embedded in their colons to give them the proper outlook on life. It's one of those great systems of social control -- the work ethic, not the brass rods -- that uses pseudo positive motivators to keep the serfs in line without the need for external enforcement.

Saves money on cops and other thugs; keeps the poor bastards showing up at work; gives them a reason, pathetic though it is, for breathing; and diminishes the effects of workers' alliances that might result in solidarity, demands for more money, strikes and work stoppages and all kinds of crazy anarchical actions.

It was adopted early on by the stovepipe hat capitalist set because it had this amazingly weird effect of getting the peasants to believe there's nobility in work, which in turn kept their peasant noses to the wheel, taking more abuse every day but slow to complain about it because the work ethic, as interpreted by the bosses, would have been bad for business and undermined capitalist principles (now there's an oxymoron for the ages).

An unpropagandized control group would have taken an hour coffee break, left early, showed up late, formed a union, turned out a shitty product, walked off the job, gone home, laughed at criticism from the boss the first time, punched his lights out the second and quit for good at the exact time the boss needed every warm body he could get manning the machines and cranking out more products, and generating more profits that these fine serfs motivated by the work ethic would never see a penny of.

The work ethic is fine for those who lack self-motivation or who really need to believe their work lives have meaning beyond a paycheck. It may even have some relevance providing the bosses act as if they have a work ethic, too.

But if I ever hear that hogwash about the nobility of a job well done from some silver-spoon preppy punk with a 9:30 to 11:00 work day and a golf bag slung over his shoulder, an ambulance may be necessary.


wp
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Ishoutandscream2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #35
39. Damn good post! You nailed it!!
The fucking "work ethic" shit is so puritanical and way over-rated.
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onethatcares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
38. i got the countdown clock tickin
and I am getting out in 9 years. Let somebody else have the damn job and I'll have another margarita. Sounds like somebody got nobody to have fun with.
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Mar-27-08 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
40. Complete and utter horseshit.
To those of you who are over 40, highly skilled, and long-term unemployed:

This author is trying to blame us for not having jobs. He is trying to lay a guilt trip on us. Trying to tell us we are lazy if we don't buy into the Puritan work ethic and the LIE that "if you work hard, you will be rewarded". Total crap.

IT IS NOT OUR FAULT WE DO NOT HAVE JOBS. It's the greedy CEOs who decided to fire everybody who might make a living wage.

Don't take this burden on yourself. IT'S NOT OUR FAULT. :grr:

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Bigmack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
41. Lemme see.....
Four years in the Corps... including the Southeast Asia War Games (our motto: "Hey, we got second place!") All because John Kennedy asked me what I was going to do for my country.

Thirty years in a High School classroom. Educating the leaders of tomorrow toward the light.

And I haven't done enough?

I hope I never do anything again to "contribute to America's strength". America has used it's strength to push too many people around.

Fuck you very much, Mr. Yarrow.

I volunteer now.


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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 02:31 AM
Response to Original message
42. And it means opening up some advancement options for younger people
The more people who retire early, the lower the unemployment rate among younger folks.
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #42
54. Not true, you don't have the experience to fill their shoes.
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reformedrethug Donating Member (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #54
59. Maybe not directly
but if person A retires then that opens up his position for somebody else in the company to be promoted and the trickle down would/could open up an entry level position.
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:48 AM
Response to Reply #59
60. When a person retires, the job is advertised, the best qualified get hired.
Edited on Fri Mar-28-08 10:54 AM by Mountainman
It's not like if I retire someone here can move up. If you have the talent you get the job, if you can do what I do better than I can, you get the job. You don't have to wait until I retire. Work hard like I did and maybe you can have my job someday but it won't be because I retired. We are not holding anyone back. You have an edge on me, you'll do my job for less than I get paid just to get it! And you better because you will have a large student loan to pay off so get to work and quit blaming bloomers for your plight!
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #60
73. Yes, obviously the "best qualified" get hired *holdsbacklaughter*, but
there would be a shuffling throughout the workforce if the retirement age was enforced.

This isn't about rr not qualifying for your job, it is about not having access to the job he is qualified for because some people can't let go.

That said, I am not for any sort of mandatory retirement; our life expectancy is too long and we have to reassess how post work life is structured.
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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #60
81. .
:rofl:

I don't kno... ohmygod...

can't... stop... laughing....

:rofl:
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trof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 06:34 AM
Response to Original message
43. Now I'm lazy AND unpatriotic.
I don't care.
Don Siegelman gets out of jail this morning.
THAT I care about very much.
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Duppers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 06:42 AM
Response to Original message
44. can't afford it
nt
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 06:45 AM
Response to Original message
45. You have no idea how hard I had to work to retire at 57. Eat your patriotic heart out.
And I retired to the West Virginia hills that I lived in before I retired. The difference is that now to get my fill of self realization I work in the Garden because that is where we get a good bit of our food, work on a house that was neglected for 50 years, work in the woods because that is how we heat now, and read what I want when I want. Oh, and I do have an extravagance for you to ridicule too, I ride a motorcycle a few thousand miles a year just for the pure hedonistic hell of it.
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elleng Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 06:48 AM
Response to Original message
46. Its easy
to be ignorant, isn't it?
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 06:48 AM
Response to Original message
47. "retirement"
:rofl:
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Dr. Strange Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. For some reason, this comes to mind...


:scared:
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mainer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 06:59 AM
Response to Original message
48. Retirees make up most of the civic volunteers I know
Retirement doesn't mean everlasting pina coladas on a beach. For a lot of people it means they finally have the time to volunteer in food pantries, work in overseas missions, and learn foreign languages. Society wouldn't run without volunteers.
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kineneb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 12:31 PM
Response to Reply #48
84. those are sometimes the most important "jobs"
there is no amount of money to replace the good will created...

I volunteer as our Rotary Club's adviser to our Interact (high school) and Rotaract (college) clubs.

The Interact club is at an alternative/continuation high school, and the kids there really appreciate the fact that an outside "adult"* would volunteer to work with them.

*I'm not too sure about being an "adult", but I am older than they are... I have pink stripes dyed in my hair (they think it is cool)...
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Ganja Ninja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
49. How about just getting out of the way and letting some younger ..
person have a job if you've made enough to live a comfortable retirement? How is that unpatriotic?
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:26 AM
Original message
self delete
Edited on Fri Mar-28-08 10:27 AM by Mountainman
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #49
55. How about putting in the time we did to earn a good job? No one is in your way if you have the
Edited on Fri Mar-28-08 10:29 AM by Mountainman
talent!
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #55
65. oh don't be so ridiculous
most people don't have talent, most people are by definition "most people," just ordinary people doing the hard work of the world

the work done by people with "talent" mostly it doesn't even matter if it gets done or not, does it matter if one girl sings or another girl sings? does it matter if one guy plays ball or a different guy plays ball? does it matter if one guys paints a picture or if he doesn't? it doesn't really, not in the same sense that building a car or a bridge matters, not in the sense that raising chickens or growing rice matters

people who did the real, hard dirty work of the world will most likely never have anything financially -- people with "talent" won a genetic lottery and i'm tired of hearing about them, they are a tiny and unimportant minority who don't need us and if we're honest at the end of the day we don't really need them either -- they are the frills

let's worry about a system that gives real workers a fair shake and not worry so much about people with "talent"

if you work very hard and do something important, say helping to construct a bridge, you're probably not going to be rewarded financially, it's the people in junk jobs such as "management" who are rewarded, and i'm tired of pretending otherwise

if you have a whole lot of money, it's a given that you didn't work hard, it just doesn't work that way
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #65
68. If you defeat yourself even before you start you've proved your point.
If you work hard to get somewhere there is no guarantee you will get there. If you don't work hard you have a guarantee you won't. That's a lesson I leaned when I was a laborer making $9/hr looking for unexploded ordinance in San Diego about 15 yrs ago. I now make over $76K/yr. I didn't let that shit stop me.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #55
67. You think talent always wins out? Turn on the TV, or radio!!!
EOM
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Mountainman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. I'll tell you one thing. That attitude is real prevalent here at DU. I'll bet those who
are always pissed off that someone has it better than they do feels that way. The left has more than it's share of "poor me" types. That's one thing I'll give to conservatives. You think you would have this site to post on if Skinner felt like you do?
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 01:33 AM
Response to Reply #69
75. You miss the point... someone who is visionary pays no attention what is
Edited on Sat Mar-29-08 01:33 AM by JCMach1
going on around them... They have the ability to do that seamlessly, effortlessly...

To a certain extent, we have the power to mold our own destinies. However, there is a great deal of luck and randomness involved in that.

There is a parallel universe where Bill Gates is an out of work Fortran programmer.

I do find some comfort in that...
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
51. I would do a lot of things to never have to work a 40, 50 or 60 hour week again.
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Bill McBlueState Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
52. yeah "Arbeit macht frei" and all that. n/t
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Javaman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:21 AM
Response to Original message
53. Alas, I must be super patriotic, I will die chained to my desk. :( nt
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madmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
61. What about these big auto companies trying to force the older workforce out
offering buy-outs and such so they can get the younger, cheaper labor force in there. Which one is the unpatriotic one in this case?
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spin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Not only big auto companies...
It's a common theme for many big corporations.

Many big companies like to fire up the workforce with programs like "zero defects", "Total Quality Management" and "six sigma". The older employees have seen all these ideas come and go. The basic idea of these projects is fundamentally the same. The old guys just refuse to stand up and cheer.

The latest program, six sigma, had "black belts", who were supposed to help implement and instruct six sigma teams. The company I worked for wasn't real happy when I pointed out that the black belt concept made me suspicious that the company planned to beat the shit out of the employees.

My company had been bought out by another corporation. This corporation had such a bad reputation that they just took over the previous companies name rather than use their own. All the old guys used to point out to the younger work force how great it was it work for the previous company and how they actually cared for their employees.

Needless to say, the new owners did everything they could to get us old guys out. Amazing how our appraisals dropped year by year.

So I grew as tired of being insulted by management as I'm sure they were of my comments about them. Having a pension after 37 years of working for the company and having never bought into the "just charge it" philosophy we are taught in this country...I decided to leave at age 60.

Haven't worked since and have no plans to work ever again. I'm a Vietnam era veteran. I could have run to Canada or went to college to avoid the draft. Out of a sense of patriotism I joined the armed forces, and to be honest I don't regret it. No, I didn't end up in Vietnam but that was merely because the orders never came.

Am I patriotic? I believe I am. No, I don't chose to work as a WAGE SLAVE for companies whose bottom line is profit, profit, profit. And I have to admit that I'm not real fond of a government that's of the corporation, by the corporation and for the corporation.

Perhaps thats why I post here. If we all work together to elect good politicians and force them to improve this country for all the people, not just big business, maybe we can truly live up to our potential.

Somehow, I doubt we will succeed. But we can fight the good fight and when all is said and done, we can hold our heads high.
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YvonneCa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. And school districts...
...who force teachers to retire (while complaining about the teacher shortage) ? It's all about saving money...on health care benefits and by hiring a newer, cheaper workforce.
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CTyankee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #64
80. And let the old folks be a greeter at WalMart for the minimum wage.
n/t
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Thickasabrick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #61
82. Word...I'm going to hang in as long as I can but being almost 54
and seeing people my age being "downsized" out, then watching new positions open for the youngsters - it's going to be tough.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
66. So stay a wage slave! Bullshit!
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RadiationTherapy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Mar-28-08 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
72. If more baby boomers DID retire
it would shake up the workforce quite a bit. There is a perception, perhaps unwarranted, that BBs are holding on to many of the best paying/most interesting jobs well into their 70s; adding to already overflowing coffers. I am not sure if this is true.
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cliffordu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 01:34 AM
Response to Original message
76. What if I am just a welfare leech??
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 02:05 AM
Response to Original message
77. Call me unpatriotic then :)
I'm hoping to retire by 55 myself. It probably won't work out as I plan, but that's my goal.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
78. That's silly; if one has enough to live on without working, why
not leave the job for someone else to do? It would cut down on unemployment.

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Raven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
85. Nonsense! I'm able to do much more for other people now that
I'm not in the rat race. Anyway, I've paid my dues.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-29-08 12:40 PM
Response to Original message
86. Wow.. I would love to be one of THOSE boomers
Edited on Sat Mar-29-08 12:41 PM by SoCalDem
MOST of the boomers I know are trying desperately to figure out how on earth they can hold onto their jobs....well past the normal "retirement ages"..

Bosses LOVE to start cutting "deadwood" at around age 45, so they can get younger/cheaper people to replace them with..

Boomers WE know are probably never going to be able to "afford" to retire, whether they do it willingly or unwillingly.

Retirement to most boomers I know, means a gigantic scaling down of their lifestyles to "just this side of poverty"..

Many I know are still "supporting" or helping to support grown "kids" who find themselves jobless or insurance-less..while they also caretake for elderly parents..(one even takes care of a 92 year old GRANDPARENT)..while they continue to try and save up for the day they can no longer work..

I'd be willing to bet that for every "Tuscan-bound" Boomer, there are hundreds who will be headed for the nearest trailer park and will be collecting cans to pay the rent for that singlewide
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