Two people (shot) dead at a hospital in Georgia. Two CHILDREN (shot) dead in Kentucky.

[Redstone]

Do we have enough guns in this country yet?

Redstone

[Squatch]

1. There are at least three more guns I want to buy before I say "enough"

I would like to get a hunting revolver, a Browning Citori Feather O/U, and a precision rifle in the 338+ class.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

23. Too bad those kids that died won't get to collect anything...

but your collection is really more important than the safety of those children anyway.

[Squatch]

29. Won't somebody *please* think of the children?

:eyes:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

36. Don't worry, be happy.

Ignore the consequences of our antiquated gun laws. Again, your collection is what really matters.

:puke:

[Squatch]

38. yeah...YOU really give a shit about The Children™

:eyes:

[HCE SuiGeneris]

42. No idea what your point is,,,

[Redstone]

64. Did I say this? I did. Take it into consideration.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3068938&mesg_id=3069250

Redstone

[catnhatnh]

58. And sometimes I like you....

But this time you belittled the concerns of an okay guy....

[Redstone]

67. If "the concerns of an OK guy" include valuing a lust for guns over a concern for

human lives, then, yes, I'm guilty of that.

Redstone

[catnhatnh]

75. Redstone,better recheck the discussion tree....

actually I was supporting you (I think)...

[LSK]

107. there are no other hobbies in the world for you???

:shrug:

[Mojorabbit]

2. I have a lot of guns

and I have never shot a person. I still have a few I want to buy.

[zanne]

4. The first two posts are a good example of...

cognitive dissonance.

[Squatch]

6. .

nevermind

[Redstone]

30. Nay, they're examples of people who don't like me, so they'll say any stupid shit

they can think of in my threads, just hoping to get me pissed off.

They're looking for a fight, so I'm going to frustrate them by not giving them one.

Maybe they'll get it some day and stop doing those posts.

Redstone

[Mojorabbit]

60. I like you Redstone

and I am not trying to piss you off. I just disagree with you on this issue.

[Redstone]

61. OK, that works for me, and I appreciate you taking the time to say so. No sarcasm here.

Redstone

[zanne]

100. I rarely notice people's user names when I read posts.

But I wouldn't worry about the gunguys not "liking" you. I'd say that indicates you're doing something right. It's an honor.

[Squatch]

5. I just bought a Bushmaster M4 last week...finally!

I'm taking it to the range this weekend. The workmanship on that rifle is so much better than my current service rifle.

[zanne]

14. You're showing your true colors...

Somebody posts a topic about dead children who were shot and all you can do is encourage people to buy more guns. I consider that to be immoral (and not at all clever).

[Squatch]

16. I didn't encourage anybody to buy guns.

I was responding to the OP's question as to whether or not there are enough guns. My answer is NO.

And you can take your judgments of my morality and cram them squarely up your fourth point of contact.

[zanne]

99. Bragging about buying more guns while children have just been shot to death...

It is not only my opinion that it is immoral. It is a fact. Have you no compassion? It's one thing to argue for second amendment rights; it is another to brag about acquiring new weapons for shock value. You're acting like a child.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

115. The OP asked a question

he answered it... The OP implied if you want / own guns you dont care about kids... Thats acting like a child..

How about you save the holier than thou crap or expect people to respond in kind..

[Guaranteed]

117. Yeah, he ought to stop telling people that all children should be shot.

You honestly can't see the difference?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

83. Nice weapon.

Let us know some shot groups after the trip to the range. I really do wish these criminals would stop killing kids and just kill each other. Prayers to the families of the lost.

David

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

114. if you shoot skeet

http://www.claydelay.com/

Im no shooter but I know the guy who runs this company. Made in America...

[sharesunited]

3. Amen Redstone.

Step one, stop manufacturing new ones and prohibit importation. Step two, close down retail sales. Step three?

[sergeiAK]

8. Step three

Wipe your ass with the Constitution.

Oh wait, that was step 1.

Sorry, carry on.

[sharesunited]

10. I see you put AK in your DU name.

Says all I need to know about what you value.

[sergeiAK]

12. You are aware AK is a state, no?

Oops, did I mess with someone's preconceived notions?

And since you advocate wiping one's ass with the Constitution, I guess I know what you value.

[Squatch]

17. ...

:rofl:

:toast: :applause: :applause:

[sharesunited]

19. Apologies to you and Alaska.

I'll defend you only to this extent: Single shot, front loading, as the founding fathers knew them.

[sergeiAK]

20. So when are you giving up your PC?

First Amendment must only protect unamplified voice and fountain pens then.

[sharesunited]

21. Computers and amplifiers don't have

the power to deprive you of all your OTHER rights. By killing your ass.

[sergeiAK]

25. You still advocate infringement of civil rights

Just as Bush does. Care to explain why?

We have laws to deal with those who kill. We do not restrict a right because it may be misused; we only restrict misuse of that right. As it should be in any free society.

[sharesunited]

28. We just disagree on where the limits are drawn.

Hopefully, you concede some limits. Not home brew nukes right?

[Raskolnik]

53. Really? Mass media hasn't been used to incite horrible violence in the last century?

There are a bunch of Germans and Rwandans that might disagree with that notion.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

116. Founding fathers were ok with citizens owning military class weapons..

Best of the day..

[reformedrethug]

55. :rofl:

:yourock: :applause: :applause:

[uppityperson]

24. And Alaskans value....what?

[sergeiAK]

27. Being left alone, mostly. Those Constitutional rights are kinda nice too -nt

[uppityperson]

32. Yup. Former AKan here too.

Now, to discuss defining what was meant by that part of the Constitution...

Naw, got to go buy some chicks at the feed store.

[sharesunited]

31. They do have grizzly bears up there.

[uppityperson]

33. Brown bears.

They are brown bears or brownies. Been there, done that, seen them, lived around them, etc.

[Redstone]

63. What an exellent, and well-stated contribution to the discussion. Your elegance of

phrasing is certainly appreciated.

Redstone

[LSK]

108. Step four: READ IT

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mojorabbit]

13. I have to post

again whenever someone brings up the penis thing. I am a woman, never wanted to be a man, have no penis envy issues. Owning a gun has nothing to do with a penis for cripes sake.

[zanne]

15. As a woman, you're not trying to prove your manhood. nt

[Ghost in the Machine]

41. Dumbest. Reply. Ever!

What else to expect from someone with an obsession with penises... :shrug:

Is she trying to prove her womanhood? Maybe it's because she feels her tits are too small? Vagina envy? :sarcasm:

You gun grabbers need to come up with an intelligent argument, for once in your lives... seriously. Stupid comments like this one don't help you one bit....

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

84. Is that a liberal value, mocking what you don't understand?? Karl Rove alive and well on DU!

[zanne]

101. Says the guy who just mocked me because he doesn't understand. nt

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

119. I didn't mock you, I just pointed out your hypocrisy.

[uppityperson]

26. Adopting big headed dogs from the pound means penis envy? Have to tell my sister this.

[chixydix]

35. Could you explain to this new guy about the penis obsessive thing?

:D

[SteveM]

109. One of Sen. JFK's first bills was a protectionist measure for Mass...

...to protect domestic firearms manufacturers from foreign competition.

Tonight, millions of people will light up a joint and drink a beer, two other items the focus of prohibition.

[stillcool]

7. obviously not...

those two children, and those two people should have been armed. We are no longer a country of laws, we are a country of men and weapons. Banana Republic?

[devilgrrl]

11. Is it the guns or our tightly-wound/fearful/paranoid society?

Why isn't Canada this fucked up?

[The Straight Story]

18. We need to pass laws making shooting people illegal

problem solved. Law is made, people obey, all is good :)

[sharesunited]

34. The price for innocents is too great.

Punishment of the gunman is insufficient. Need to prevent the harm.

[The Straight Story]

39. The problems are mental health care in this country

And other social ills that contribute to WHY people do what they do.

Getting rid of guns will not solve it all, but it an easy target for some people.

[zanne]

102. Stricter gun control is the immediate solution to a violent society.

We have to try to solve our social ills, our paranoia, our rage and our blood lust, but that will take many, many decades. The senseless loss of life is occurring now and it's just bound to get worse if we don't do something about stricter regulations and harsher sentencing for breaking the laws. In a society like ours, we can't have vigilante justice, with people shooting anybody they think is a threat.

If every "law-abiding citizen" came with a guarantee that they wouldn't "lose it" and kill people out of rage, passion, jealousy or stupidity, then waiting to fix the culture would be a fine idea. In the meantime, we have to do something. An out of control gun culture isn't an "easy target"; it's a huge problem.

[Ghost in the Machine]

43. What about the innocent children and adults killed by cars and/or drunk drivers??

Punishment for drunk drivers is way more insufficient than it is for people who shoot someone. Most people who shoot someone are charged with murder, where drunk drivers that kill are charged with manslaughter or criminal negligence. We need to prevent the harm. Ban cars and alcohol...

[sharesunited]

45. Guns are intended by design to kill. Important difference.

[Ghost in the Machine]

47. Intent doesn't matter, laws do. My guns were designed to kill deer, rabbits and snakes..

... and a lot of paper targets and soda cans...

Guns are tools, period. Use them to kill a human being, they are a weapon. Same with a screwdriver, knife or anything else that can be used as a weapon.

Bottom line... driving drunk is against the law. A person drinks, then gets in a car and drives, he's already committed one crime. Although he may *think* he can drive ok, his thought process is corrupted by the alcohol. It still doesn't matter, he intentionally broke the law by deciding to drive after drinking. Killing someone else as a result of that initial decision to break the law should be considered aggravated and premeditated murder.

Being as you have already shown a propesity to wipe your ass with the Constitution, I know nothing anyone says will change your mind or your dislike of guns, but you should at least familiarize yourself with some facts.

[sharesunited]

48. Front loading. Single shot. That's your 2A.

And you're right. Neither of us will be persuaded.

[Raskolnik]

52. Do you want the 1st Amendment limited to newspapers & pamphlets?

I understand the desire to stem violence in our society, but fucking with the Bill of Rights isn't the way to do it.

[Ghost in the Machine]

54. Can you please point out precisely *where* limitations were set in the 2nd Amendment?

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Another thing you have to realize is this... the Constitution is a living, breathing document. It was created to govern us and our government through the existence of "America", not just for the times back then. These rules and laws and freedoms are just what they say.. "inalienable rights"... The times may have changed, but the meaning of the Constitution hasn't.

[beevul]

85. Is it really? Can you explain how and why?

Me, I can't see how thats a distinction that makes any difference at all, unless your intent is to someone look logical in filtering out non-gun deaths so you can feel as if you have some sort of appearance of reasonablness when you go after guns.


I can keep an open mind though.

Explain for everyone, how and why gun deaths should be treated differently than say...alcohol related deaths. You claim the difference is an important one. Support that claim now.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

86. What about the innocents that will be killed when you get your way?

Don't you care about them?

David

[Recursion]

120. OK, find a law that will *ACTUALLY PREVENT* criminals from owning guns

Please, do it. I'd love for such a law to be written.

[chixydix]

37. The 1937 Maruhuana Tax Act solved THAT little problem!

See how easy it is? :D

Never mind about that pesky Constitutional Prohibition thingy....

[sharesunited]

40. Try growing your own gun.

[Ghost in the Machine]

50. Growing?? LMAO! How about *making* a gun?

it's not very hard, if you have the right tools... a metal lathe is the biggest part of it... I've got an uncle who is a master gunsmith and had his own shop for many years.. I've watched him makes guns from scratch... I've even made about 20 rifle stocks for him in our woodshop.

What you fail to realize is the full scope of what banning guns would involve. Are you going to ban metal lathes? How about copper, lead or brass, so bullets can't be made at home? Unless you ban all of these things, all you will do is create a huge black market for people capable of making guns.... and since they are banned, as in illegal, only criminals will have them, which will skyrocket crime rates because the criminals will know that people can't defend themselves against them.

Try thinking something all the way through.... it helps.

[chixydix]

56. Beware of points...they can hurt if you sit on them wrong.

:eyes:

[IndianaJones]

22. theres about 5 or 6 I'm looking at buying this year. nt.

[LanternWaste]

44. C'mon Red-- we're merely the most heavily armed nation...

"Do we have enough guns in this country yet?"

C'mon Red-- we're merely the most heavily armed nation and populace on the planet. Let's aim for higher thing! Let's be the most heavily armed nation and planet in the UNIVERSE!!!

Where are your aspirations?

[Redstone]

51. Yeah, I know, I set my goals way too low.

And thank you.

Redstone

[SteveM]

110. Violent crime rates are steady, gun ownership way up...

Yet the gun-controllers think "more guns = more crime," the mantra of an intellectually bankrupt special interest group.

Respectfully, Redstone, we can't prohibit our way out of a crime problem. We've tried that.

[KG]

46. guns have nothing to do with people dying with bullets in them.

haven't you got the NRA memo yet? :eyes:

[fascisthunter]

49. "Never Suggest to Me That Guns Kill By Themselves"

:silly:

[crim son]

57. There are too many freaking children in this country, that's what.

:eyes:

[Redstone]

66. And the Gun Nuts have the answer to that problem, don't they?

Redstone

[crim son]

71. It is impossible for me to understand the desire to own/collect

weapons, which are created to kill, wound, maim, etc. Whatever the Gun Nuts think makes no sense to me.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

87. I shoot golf balls with mine it's really fun.

It's hard for me to understand why you are against the Constitution, so I guess we are even.

David

[crim son]

104. Guess so.

:eyes:

[beevul]

59. Perspective...

A terrible thing when people, particularly children, die before thier time.


Not so terrible that perspective should be lost however.


280 million guns in private hands in America.

80+ million gun owners.

13 thousand firearm homicides.

[Redstone]

65. That WHAT "perspective should be lost?" I cannot believe I'm hearing this.

For Christ's sake, you're going to try to excuse the death of even ONE child, because "we have a right to have our guns?"

I don't think I've ever been more disgusted. Do you have any children?

Redstone

[chixydix]

69. Not to be argumentative, but do you have any clue how many children are run over

by vehicles...often driven by their own parents?

[KG]

72. vehicles serve several purposes, none of which is to kill.

a gun is for killing. period. end of story.

[beevul]

78. So what?

The great majority of firearms will not be used to kill anyone.

[chixydix]

81. And yet the vehicle, whose purpose is not to kill, nevertheless kills WAY MORE people

than the gun whose purpose is putatively to do just that. How very interesting.

[beevul]

77. I'll kindly thank you to keep your words out of my mouth.

"For Christ's sake, you're going to try to excuse the death of even ONE child, because "we have a right to have our guns?"


I excused nothing. And as a matter of fact, I have 2 daughters.

"That WHAT "perspective should be lost?"

I said perspective should NOT be lost.

The perspective that the great majority of firearms in America, AND the great majority of people that own them, will never be involved in the wrongful killing of anyone, let alone a kid.

Just like the majority of people that drink alcoholic beverages will never drink themselves to death, or cause the death of another through the use of alcohol.

Do you deny that?

If its STRICTLY about deaths there are bigger fish to fry.

If its about deaths but your willing to take things into consideration, then you have to take into consideration that the majority of guns and the people that own them are simply not ever involved in the killing of anyone.


And if you are willing to take things into consideration for things like...say...alcohol related deaths, but not willing to where firearms are concerned, you obviously have an axe to grind that goes beyond simple deaths or to what degree something causes death through misuse.

If that describes you, why should anyone listen to one word out of your mouth?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

88. So am I to understand that even one death is unacceptable, for the sake of my convenience?

I've got a lot of dogs does that count.

David

[Fireweed247]

62. WE need bullet control

(Chris Rock puts it well)

You don't need no gun control.

You know what you need?
We need some bullet control.

Man, we need to control the bullets,
that's right.

l think all bullets should cost $500 .

$ 500 for a bullet. You know why?

'Cause if a bullet costs $ 500
there'd be no more innocent bystanders.

That'd be it.

Every time someone gets shot, people will
be like, ''Damn, he must have did something.

''Shit, they put $ 2000 worth of bullets
in his ass.''

People would think before
they killed somebody, if a bullet cost $ 500 .

'Man, l would blow your fucking head off,
if l could afford it.

''l'm gonna get me another job,
l'm gonna start saving some money...

'and you're a dead man.

'You better hope
l can't get no bullets on layaway.''

[apocalypsehow]

68. You know what the answer from a certain little knot of posters around here will be:

"Guns good - more guns better!"

And they will spend countless replies grunting about how all these gun deaths prove is that all the good 'ole USA really needs is unlimited access to as many guns as the factories can crank out, and the "right" to tote them hither and yon anywhere they wish.

[chixydix]

70. Actually, the 'little knot' is comprised of a few liars who cannot produce any

evidence of anybody saying "...unlimited access to as many...as the factories can crank out"

Why do you lie this way? Are you so bereft of facts that you're reduced to inventing hysterical nonsense?

[apocalypsehow]

74. Well, lookee here: a returnee from beyond the vale of the departed....

:eyes:

Go peddle your weepy routine to someone who cares, sport. I don't.

:thumbsdown:

[chixydix]

80. Well then that pretty much makes us even. Thanks to your phobia we will lose

a few million more votes this time around. I hope you think it's worth it.

[apocalypsehow]

82. My "phobia" doesn't turn America's city streets into free fire zones flowing with blood everyday -

yours does.

:thumbsdown:

[beevul]

89. No, your phobia is responsible for pushing gun owners away from voting Democrat.

Which enables the deaths of a few million Iraqi people, and a few thousand American soldiers, amongst some other bad things.



That doesn't matter to you though, because you can't use them to push for more gun control here at home.

[apocalypsehow]

91. You make my point for me - rarely does it get this easy. You said:

1. "your phobia is responsible for pushing gun owners away from voting Democrat"

and followed that up with:

2. "Which enables the deaths of a few million Iraqi people, and a few thousand American soldiers, amongst some other bad things."

To the extent that's true, can there be any more positive proof of the basic rancid scumminess of the "law abiding gun owner"? That, in order to clutch their fetish/genital-reassurers to their bosoms, such folks would vote for a political Party (the GOP) that brought about #2? It is beyond selfish - it is monstrous. And you are quite welcome to keep cavorting around with and performing intellectual fellatio on such scumbags. It says much about you, and nary a speck of it is flattering....

[chixydix]

95. Far be it from me to dispute your expertise on fellatio

but feel free to alienate millions of otherwise dedicated Democrats who will ignore your condescending silliness as they stay home and not bother to vote for anybody at all, much less the sort of namby pamby candidate you appear to want.

[beevul]

97. I made a point alright, bit it wasn't yours...

"To the extent that's true, can there be any more positive proof of the basic rancid scumminess of the "law abiding gun owner"? That, in order to clutch their fetish/genital-reassurers to their bosoms, such folks would vote for a political Party (the GOP) that brought about #2? It is beyond selfish - it is monstrous. And you are quite welcome to keep cavorting around with and performing intellectual fellatio on such scumbags. It says much about you, and nary a speck of it is flattering..."


Nice try. I'd even give you a star if I could for that try. Except you are 180 degrees off. See, gun owners voting to protect the firearms they own, and which people like YOU attack, is nothing new. its been happening for over a decade. Bill Clinton Acknowledged it after we got our asses handed to us as a result of the original AWB. Obama and Hillary Acknowledge it today. But people like you...People like YOU make gun owners feel like they have to choose anyway, in spite of what it costs this party, and costs people at large.

People with attitudes like yours are AT LEAST as responsible for asking gun owners to choose, as gun owners are for choosing. Thats equally on you and yours. I know it, you know it, and the whole world knows it. And theres no spinning it away or escaping it. Sure, you can engage in diversionary tactics, and point in some other direction and shout "hey, a gun death", but that wont make the facts disappear, or change anyones perception of them.


Yours is a dying breed. You have had your day, and its almost over.

[apocalypsehow]

106. Uh-huh. When the response is all splutter, fallacy, and spleen, I know my point has been proven

irrefutable.

That is the case here.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

118. Did you just refer to law abiding gun owners as scum?

Just for clarification.

David

[chixydix]

90. You must live in a really shitty neighborhood. I'm sorry for you.

It must suck bad.

[apocalypsehow]

92. Something "sucks" and is "shitty" alright - but I don't think it's my neighborhood...

n/t.

[chixydix]

93. I've been to Overland Park. It is shitty. Everyone agrees with that.

Sorry.

[apocalypsehow]

94. LOL! Does your Mommy know you're up this late?

:rofl:

[chixydix]

96. My mommy is 93 years old. She lets me do as I please. Do you have that kind of freedom?

???

[apocalypsehow]

105. So, that means she was 82 when she had you. I hope that made the front page of The Enquirer!

n/t.

[SteveM]

111. Contradiction here. Your streets don't bleed, her's does? How is that?

[zanne]

103. I've encountered this little gun cult many times...

Who is more hysterical than people who, in the face of more gun shootings and the deaths of children, argue for the need of MORE guns in society? Or brag about their new guns or the guns on their "wish list"? It's a sickness I've met with before.

You accuse the poster of not having "the facts". The problem with gun lovers is that you're so obssessed with firearms that you choose not to SEE the facts and the problems that result from those with similar attitudes.

[SteveM]

112. It ain't little and it ain't a cult. But I have noticed some gun-banners hanging out here...

So, what is the strategy, now, Zanne? Get some anti-gun folks together, post a police blotter sheet in "General Discussion" and start a scream fest against those supporting the Second Amendment? You don't like "Forums: Guns" anymore?

I can't help but notice how quickly and feverishly some gun-controllers are in getting the "news" out about murders, esp. children. One can get the impression that these victims' fates are secondary to scoring a few (and I do mean few) points.

What is your point? Are you accomplishing anything constructive? Or is it all gratuitous?

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

113. I've only heard you and the Z man say that.

You and Zanne are fond of saying that. The only problem is you all are the only ones that ever say it. Another Rove tactic tell a lie enough times and stupid people will believe it.

David

[JuniperLea]

73. We can't do much about the guns now that there are so many...

We need to focus on the nutjobs behind the trigger. People are getting very desperate these days... and you know what desperate people do. So much unhappiness, so much pain, so much poverty... I blame Bush.

[Wcross]

76. If the number of guns was an issue wouldn't gun homicide be ever increasing?

Explain why gun homicide has decreased while guns continue to be manufactured. There are more & more guns in peoples hands yet the people killed by gunmen decreases? Is there a correlation between the number of guns in civilian hands & the number of gun homicides?

[Iris]

79. I like you more and more every day, Redstone. n/t

[beevul]

98. I have all I need.

A decent rifle and sidearm for gettin rid of the coyotes that think our pomeranians might make good snacks. I reckon I don't need any more than that, but I support others owning more than that provided they aren't criminals. I guess that makes me a gun nut :eyes: