Democracy & Capitalism: Can Anyone Please Explain...

[susankh4]

to the D.U. GD Primary forum how these two phenomena are different, yet related?

I am growing weary of pointing out distinctions.

[harun]

1. Spare us your condescending bullsh*t... please (n/t)

[susankh4]

2. Does this mean you cannot answer?

[harun]

16. Thanks for modifying your original post to be discussion positive

and not Obama negative. It is a worthy discussion to have.

[susankh4]

17. You are welcome....

I am just growing weary of all the negativity coming from Obama supporters. And it sometimes comes out in my posts.

It is perfectly legitimate for any one of us to donate, or not.... to spend, or not.... based on how we perceive a situation to benefit us. House speaker Pelosi should not be House Speaker if she can't handle that.

This is a very serious situation in which our party is at risk of fracturing. It is no time for her, or anyone else in power, to be "taking sides."

[SteinbachMB]

3. Democracy

...is the worst of all political systems except for all the rest (Churchill). Capitalism is the worst of all economic systems, except for all the rest. (moi)

[bryant69]

4. That is a fair observation. n/t

[susankh4]

5. Good synopsis

But the two combined are the worst nightmare of all!

Why? And whose fault is that?

[bryant69]

6. I'm sorry you have had it so hard

Capitalism is an economic system, it's a way for a society to make economic decisions.

Democracy is a governmental system, it's a way for a society to make governmental decisions.

Is that correct, Professor?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[susankh4]

8. Haha. Professor? Nah....

Just a businesswoman here.

But, look. Here's the point: as consumers in a capitalist society... we have the right to spend, or withhold funds as we see fit (except for taxes.) This applies, no matter how rich we are. Or poor.

Withholding money from a political candidate or party (or from Starbucks for that matter) is not "extortion." It is not "bribery." It is simply capitalism at it's best (or worst) depending on whether we like it.

Democracy is influenced by such withholding, no doubt. That doesn't make it illegal.

Likewise, democracy can be enhanced by giving. At the risk of influence and conflicting interests. Still, it's not "illegal" or even "immoral." It's just the way our country works.

[bryant69]

10. Money is speech? Is that what you are saying?

What about industries who pour thousands of dollars into both parties to keep regulations away from themselves?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[susankh4]

11. Money is power...

In a capitalist society, there is no denying that.

And your point here is well taken. It illustrates why capitalism and democracy make poor bedfellows.

Still, it cannot be said that if an individual decides not to donate to a political party... and then sends a letter letting that party's leaders know why ... they are engaging in "extortion" or "bribery." They are, rather, simply exercising their rights as members of a nation with a capitalist economy.

Extortion and bribery are serious charges.

[sinkingfeeling]

7. Democrarcy is a system of government and capitalism is an economic system. Unfortunately, our

dear Mr. Bush doesn't know the difference either. In most of his attempts at speaking, he confuses them.

[susankh4]

9. I'll agree with ya there....

Mr. Bush has a hard time keeping alot of things straight.

[ThomWV]

12. It is as easy to know as looking up the words - and there's something to be said for doing that

Words have meaning. You can not have a sensible discussion when the words being used to not have the same meaning to each of the participants.

Random House:

Capitalism: An economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations.

Communism: A theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.

See the difference? Capitalism, an economic system, is not concerned with social organization nor is it chiefly concerned with the holding of property. The consequence is that capitalism can coexist with other social systems. Communism contrasts with capitalism by being chiefly concerned with ownership without mention of production, distribution, and it can not account for exchange of wealth because there is no concept of individual wealth to be exchanged. So in short, you are trying to compare apples and oranges.

[susankh4]

13. Capitalism and Communism are both Economic systems...

so they are easy to compare and contrast.

The problem comes in when we interface Democracy with one or the other. Then we go off accusing Capitalist Democrats of "extortion" and "bribery" ... when all they are doing is exercising their Capitalist perogative of choosing where to spend their money.

[ThomWV]

14. If you knew an answer why did you ask the question?

All I did was give you the definitions and point out where they were different.

[susankh4]

15. I am trying to stimulate an intelligent discussion.

You are answering half of the question, the half about Capitalism, and that's great!

But the whole picture needs to be examined. That's all I am saying.

[leftofthedial]

18. they are related only to the extent

that capitalists have purchased the political system and their servants in our "government" have privatized our electoral system.

Otherwise, they are philosophical opposites

[susankh4]

19. Now we get to the heart of the problem....

So what do we do about that?

Besides bash each other for playing by the rules and trying to make the best of a bad situation???

[leftofthedial]

20. torches and pitchforks

to the barricades