I feel like giving up

[cali]

on the Senate, and I'm not that much more sanguine about the House. I'm one of those that said give them time, they just got elected. Well, with their abandonment of Iraq, with statements like Reid's about how Iraq will still be around in a couple of weeks, my goodwill has evaporated. After all the words about how they recognize that Iraq was the most important issue to voters, they've folded. And it didn't take them long. I never asked that they win, simply that they try.

They're not willing to risk anything. And I'm not willing to give them a pass.

[trumad]

1. Then give up

[shadowknows69]

55. I feel like it too sometimes

unfortunately in the mental state this admin has put me in that probably means suicide.

[Quantess]

56. Giving up certainly won't make things any worse.

The senate won't care if you do.

[terip64]

2. Try listening to Randi today. It really helps. n/t

[spanone]

3. I'm hanging in there but my optimism is waning...quickly...folks are DYING.

maybe 'We The People' have lost out entirely.

[H2O Man]

4. Naw. n/t

[cali]

7. Why? Do you have faith in the Senate dems

to introduce and back meaningful legislation about withdrawing from Iraq? What gives you any indication that they'll do so? I have faith in individual Senators, but not in dem Senators as a body, or in Reid.

[H2O Man]

18. Two issues here.

#1: The part about "giving up."
#2: The part about the democrats in the Senate.

I recognize that our federal system is dysfunctional. There is a sense of frustration that can result from dealing with any dysfunctional system. But it took a lot of years for things to become as disordered as they are .... hence, it would be extremely unlikely to expect that the Senate would become capable of functioning in an orderly, proper manner in a brief time. To expect it to would seem to be unrealistic and likely to add to the disfunctional dynamics of the sick system.

Expecting immediate results and giving up have two things in common: both are disordered thinking and both are avenues to failure.

We can only get our system of democratic government back on track by being positive, by being active participants, by being patient, and by being realistic. In doing so, we may recognize the need to consider increasing the pressure on the elected officials in Washington, DC, to take meaningful action to end the war. That "Bill of Rights" provides us with the training manual that we should follow to exercise our democratic muscles.

[ClassWarrior]

20. Dammit, I wish I could recommend individual posts on a thread...

Couldn't have said it better myself, Water.

B-):thumbsup:

NGU.

[H2O Man]

24. Thank you.

"Democracy" isn't something that someone in Washington DC gives to us. It's a power inside of us, that we should be exercising each and every day. If we fail to recognize that it is inside of us, if we give in to weakness and "give up," then democracy withers on the vine .... and there are surely thieves in Washington DC who are attempting -- each and every day -- to steal that democratic power from us.

[terip64]

23. Thank you H2O Man. Once again, you the man!

[trumad]

29. Word!

Of course I with the Op author would indeed "give up".

[H2O Man]

33. The Word

Say the word and you'll be free
Say the word and be like me
Say the word I'm thinking of
Have you heard the word is love?
It's so fine, It's sunshine
It's the word, love
In the beginning I misunderstood
But now I've got it, the word is good

Spread the word and you'll be free
Spread the word and be like be
Spread the work I'm thinking of
Have you heard the word is love?
It's so fine, It's sunshine
It's the word, love
Every where I go I hear it said
In the good and bad books that I have read

Give the word a chance to say
That the word is just the way
It's the word I'm thinking of
And the only word is love
It's so fine, It's sunshine
It's the word, love
Now that I know what I feel must be right
I'm here to show everybody the light

Say the word and you'll be free
Say the word and be like me
Say the word I'm thinking of
Have you heard the word is love?
It's so fine, It's sunshine
It's the word, love
(John Lennon)

[trumad]

34. Who played the harmonium on this song?

Oh you're so gonna have to Google this one...

[H2O Man]

35. I did.

Of course, if you aren't talking about the old garage band, and instead are speaking of the version of the song found on Rubber Soul, I'd bet that it is the 5th Beatle who shares the same first name as the youngest Beatle.

What is the middle name of the lad on the piano?

[ClassWarrior]

37. The middle name of the lad on the piano?

Would that be Paul? Or Winston?

NGU.

[H2O Man]

38. Paul. n/t

[trumad]

40. Surprise--- It was their manager, George Martin

[walldude]

50. Increasing the pressure... Bingo!

We fought long and hard to bring the truth to the American people and it worked. We got back some power and opportunity. Now we need to bring to bear the pressure we used on the media and the public on to our elected officials. I'm as discouraged as the next guy that things aren't moving fast enough but if we want them to move faster we have to get in there and push.

[GeorgeGist]

70. Transparent nonsense...

Expecting immediate results and giving up have two things in common: both are disordered thinking and both are avenues to failure.

[H2O Man]

71. The sky is falling

-- Henny Penny

[endarkenment]

5. I give up all the time. I actually started out knowing they would fold.

And then I get up in the morning and the outrage boils over and I un-give up. Don't give them a pass. Don't be afraid to call our 'leaders' out for the weak willed corrupt idiots that they are.

There is only one effective route to end the war: the house must vote NO on the war appropriations bill.

[dogday]

6. Try having your only Son over there fighting and

wanting somebody here to do anything to stop or at least slow down this mess.. Instead, they escalate a bad situation to make it even worse...

[Cabcere]

53. My thoughts are with you and your son, dogday

:hug: I know that can't be easy for either of you. I, too, wish somebody would just stop all this madness right now, so we could wake up from this nightmare... :(

[mike_c]

8. they're cowards....

They won't act unless they have complete political cover, and then-- if they act at all-- they'll be all righteous about it. The war against Iraq is a crime against humanity. How much deliberation does trying to stop war crimes require?

[ClassWarrior]

16. So for which office do you plan to run in 2008?

Since you know all about bravery and stuff...

NGU.

[mike_c]

25. no need to attack the messenger....

If you disagree with me, perhaps you could explain how the senate dems are NOT putting political considerations before doing the right thing and ending the illegal war against Iraq?

[ClassWarrior]

30. I'm simply challenging you to act on the courage of your words.

If cowardice is the problem, then WE need to supply the bravery. Otherwise we're cowards too.

NGU.

[RiverStone]

49. Russ Feingold needs to replace Harry Reid as Majority Leader! n/t

[wake.up.america]

9. Yes, it is frustrating. Seems as if the seriousness of the situation in Iraq and Iran would...

require more urgent measures.

[brazos121200]

10. We still have contol of Congress, albeit a fragile one,

and that is a big thing. With this control, the Democrats can keep Bush's feet to the fire, so to speak. We may not be able to push through a comprehensive Iraq statement at this time, but we can still do something. And I know, many Democrats in Congress don't want to do anything or take any chances, but that is something we will just have to deal with. I would much rather be where we are now than to have imploded during the election and have failed to win either house. The Democrats will eventually find their voice and figure out how best to restrain the Bush administration, but it is going to take some time.

[atreides1]

32. Unless you're willing to use it...

...control means nothing. The Democrats can't hold Bush's feet to the fire if they can't even agree on an agenda.

How do we deal with the fact that many Democrats in Congress don't want to take chances? Do we wait until the number of dead is 6,000, maybe 9,000 or do we wait until Bush orders an attack on Iran?

At which point do we the people hold the Democrats feet to the fire, when do we remind them of the
promises that were made, when do we see the difference?

[OneBlueSky]

11. "business as usual" . . . "don't make waves" . . . "defend and protect the status quo" . . .

Congressional "words to live by" in 2007 . . .

[GreenPartyVoter]

46. I wanted so much to believe that good things were coming when the

Dems took power, but it's just not as much as I would have liked to have seen.

[raccoon]

12. I agree, they're not willing to risk anything.

I'm afraid that no matter who gets into office in 2008, it will be years before the US gets out of Iraq. I'm basing that on my memories of Vietnam and Nixon's "secret plan." I hope I am wrong.

[PLF]

13. They have to be more afraid of the voters than Wall Street.

Right now the voters are a joke to them.

[ClassWarrior]

14. That's okay... go take a break...

There are plenty of strong Progressives around here who can carry on in your absence.

NGU.

[babylonsister]

15. I'm just as disillusioned as you. nt

[ClassWarrior]

19. I said months ago that our work doesn't END Nov. 7...

...that it only BEGINS. And anyone who thought that our legislation would just start flying through a new Dem Congress is unbelieveably naive.

We need to hang in there and keep slogging and Never Give Up, because I fear that this isn't even the worst. Imagine the shit that'll fly should we go ahead with IMPEACHMENT. Be strong sis, and remember Jefferson's legendary sentiment: The price of liberty is eternal vigilance.

Never Give Up.

[babylonsister]

21. I'd love to see the vigilance, CW, but it does seem as if

there is so much criminal activity going on with this admin, and the Dems don't seem able to fix anything. I've adjusted my level of optimism downward, most definitely. I'm still rooting for people to do the right thing, but it does get disheartening.
And thanks for the pep talk. :hug:

[ClassWarrior]

26. I'm only optimistic about my own determination.

I'm determined to leave this world in better shape than I found it - and I ain't gonna do that by giving up.

:hug: sis...

NGU.

[mikelewis]

17. The Senate is hung... there's not much we can expect from them... sorry but that's the reality...

Our margin of control is razor thin... if you can even call it control. With Lieberman as the 51st "Democrat", our Progressive Caucus is hamstrung. Yes, it's frustrating to watch but there are still some advantages to our position... namely oversight hearings and control of which legislation gets attention. Aside from that, the Senate is tied up in knots and will be until after 2008 when our majority is solidified and a Democratic President sits in the Oval Orifice.

The House is a different story entirely and I am becoming concerned that they're a bit to vacillating on issues that concern the country. The log jam in the Senate does have an effect on the House but there are quite a few things the House could do to make things difficult for the Chimperor in Chief. However, the debate on the Non-binding Iraq War Resolution (though legislatively meaningless) has done some good in ending the spiral of silence over Iraq. Also the hearings on Iraq have been substantial but again it seems as if they could step more boldly.

I understand your frustration but you really shouldn't put your faith in any Congress to put an end to this war. They will not... under any circumstances... move the debate towards closing this war down. Sure, a few will but the overwhelming majority will not... Keep in mind...it is not Congress that will end this war... unless they are left with absolutely no choice.

[Atman]

22. You are wrong on several levels

First of all, the Lieberman switch threat is bullshit. It wouldn't change anything even if he DID switch, which he'd never do. CT is a small state, and he still has to come home. He'd have to put the Casa Hadassah up for sale and find a new home. He'd be wandering in the desert, so to speak. But further, I think many people are upset that they're not even TRYING. They do these silly symbolic votes, announcing beforehand they're symbolic. Bullshit...dig in your heals and FIGHT, show the voters that they're serious about changing things even if the republicans and the DINO plants in our party wish to thwart the will of the people. I would have total respect for them if they'd just FIGHT for what is right, but instead Harry and Nancy just whine and say, "Ohhhhh, we'd like to work with them," when they've never been given any reason to think the republicans are willing to do anything but shit on them. It's maddening.

I just want the party demonstrate some spine. You can't win everything, but you can't win ANYTHING if you don't play.

.

[RiverStone]

52. kick those thoughts!

Well said Atman. :applause:

Russ Feingold needs to give wimpy Harry Reid some assertiveness training!

[BlueJac]

27. Everyone was hoping ........

But now it is plain to see the weakness in some Senate Dem's knees. Their weak new Iraq resolution is being opposed by Russ Feingold. The voters of this country again are being shown their votes don't really count that much.

I just wonder what condition this country has to be in before the entire Congress stands up to the White House Cabal. This country has become a faint shadow of what it used to represent.

[bigtree]

28. that's not a true representation of Reid's stance in the Senate

Even Russ Feingold agreed that the Iraq resolution fight would have to wait a couple of days so that the 9-11 bill can proceed. The language in the Levin and Biden proposals is being debated behind the scenes to make the bills less of a vehicle that Bush can hijack to continue the occupation.

All of this hand-wringing is pathetic.


"Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said Iraq will have to wait until the Senate finishes work to improve homeland security. "That would mean we would hold off the Iraq legislation for a matter of days, not weeks," he said.

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1594384,00.html

[MGKrebs]

31. The question is revolution vs. incremental change.

I lost hope in revolution because:
- Dean got screwed
- we went to war despite... everything, with massive popular support
- Torture

How can the people not be in the streets with pitchforks?

People are evidently just not going to revolt. So, I made the choice to try to help change from within. Joining and staying active witin the party and trying to add one more voice to the chorus for change. But it's going to take time, as much as I hate it. Not sure what other choice there is at this point.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

36. Politiicians get elected so they can get reelected. They are risk averse.

They don't stride on the pages of history, they tiptoe around the polls and pay more heed to their "political advisers" than the constitution or the people.

It is our responsibility as citizens, never to "trust" them, to push, kick, demand, and otherwise hold their timid feet to the fire.

Politicians don't lead, they follow. They work for us, no the other way around.

[geiger]

39. Their passes are up, long, way, up, but hang in there, just don't give them another one.

[meldroc]

41. Two words...

In response to cali's thread:

I feel like giving up on the Senate, and I'm not that much more sanguine about the House. I'm one of those that said give them time, they just got elected. Well, with their abandonment of Iraq, with statements like Reid's about how Iraq will still be around in a couple of weeks, my goodwill has evaporated. After all the words about how they recognize that Iraq was the most important issue to voters, they've folded. And it didn't take them long. I never asked that they win, simply that they try.

They're not willing to risk anything. And I'm not willing to give them a pass.

Two words: Occupation Project.

Go camp out in your Congresscritter's office until the cops drag you out.

Then go march in war protests on March 17th. See if we can break 500,000 on the Mall.

Contrary to popular belief, Congresscritters do respond to pressure from the voters. Protests and non-violent civil disobedience do more than you realize. Given enough sit-ins at their offices, enough rallies, enough street-side protests, they eventually will cave in and demand an end to the war.

But if you sit at home and do nothing but bitch on Internet forums, nothing will change. And that's exactly what Bush, Cheney and all the other right-wing psychopaths want you to do - get disgusted, take your ball and go home, give up, let them have their way. Don't give them that satisfaction.

[Sonicmedusa]

42. Absolutely, we have to take to the streets and shout at the top of our lungs!

A little civil disobedience may go a long way.

Flood our senators and congress people with letters and email.

Sometimes I feel like giving up, too, but there is TOO MUCH at stake!

[pat_k]

45. Screw the streets. It's in the halls of Congress that the battle will be won.

There is a reason corporations spend millions on lobbyists. Nothing can substitute for face-to-face dialog, where you can directly contradict their ridiculous rationalizations.

As long as those rationalizations remain intact, our demands slide off like water off a duck's back.

The thing is, you don't need hoards of citizen lobbyists. A small group in a Congressional district can be incredibly powerful.

We don't need a movement. We just need to move.

[mnhtnbb]

57. Maybe we need to clog the halls of Congress with protesters until they get the message.

[pat_k]

65. That's basically what woke up Barbara Boxer on Jan. 6th

It was ordinary citizens who said "No, We Do Not Consent" in November and December of 2004.

We were told we would never, never, "get a Senator" to stand with members of the House and object to the Ohio electors on January 6th. We were even ridiculed. Even staffers from Rep. Conyers office, folks who were "on our side" told us it was hopeless.

But ordinary citizens came out of the woodwork, refusing to submit to calls to "look ahead, not behind." Little coalitions came together. Groups like MoveOn.org and Common Cause said it was a waste of time. They were too busy kicking themselves for losing the election, when Kerry hadn't lost at all (some finally got on the stick at the last minute when it was clear that the January 6th effort was spontaneously activating people).

People who had never even written to their representative before showed up on January 4th, 2005. Folks from Ohio showed up by bus. Others -- so many little groups from all over -- showed up spontaneously. They were seeking to meet with the Senators, staffers, demanding to be heard. Time was so short, but we won. We "got a Senator." I have no doubt that the people who were there that day were part of something rarely, if ever, seen before in the halls of the Hart, Russell or Dirksen Office Bldgs. Ordinary people -- lots of them -- showing up in person, challenging them to act. No big groups organizing the effort. Just people. People so outraged they couldn't stay home.

[pat_k]

43. "Not giving a pass" is not giving up. Threat of a primary challenge. . .

. . .may be the only thing that will get through.

Making sure they know we'll be mounting a fight to replace them if they fail to act is stronger than simply calling for action.

Could start with Pelosi. Not only is Pelosi betraying her oath, but she is thumbing her nose at her constituents -- sixty percent of whom voted for the SF impeachment resolution.

If she won't impeach to defend the Constitution, perhaps she will to defend her political future.

There has got someone with deep pockets who understands the meaning of an oath in SF. Someone willing to stand up and say "Impeach Bush and Cheney now, or face me in 2008."

They are driven by fear. The trick is to make them more afraid of us than their irrational fears. It is already happening. They've mislabeled us as the "anti-war left" (we are in fact the "anti-Bush center") but our power is being felt, and they are responding -- wimpy as their responses have been so far.

[Beelzebud]

44. When we had the minority the battlecry was "wait for the majority".

Now that we have the majority they're saying "wait for the super-majority", or "wait until 2008".

Fuck this shit.

This is how we enable FAILURE. This is why the Republican party is in shambles. Because too many of them just blindly followed party leaders.

Do we really want to do the same thing with the Democratic Party?

If we don't hold them accountable, who will?

I will NEVER again hold my nose and vote. I will ONLY vote for candidate that EARN my support.

The Democratic Party does not have a birthright to my vote. They have to EARN it.

[Xenotime]

47. You can't give up. You will then be playing into Limbaugh's and Hannity's hands...

This is exactly what they predicted. I know it sucks but there is still time. Let your voice be heard.

[RiverStone]

48. Pondering the same question on DU poll...

Results as of 11:10 a.m. (pst) have 73% of DUers giving DEM leaders a grade of C or worse on action taken to end, cut, or cap funding for the Iraq War.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=308925&mesg_id=308925

[Sapphire Blue]

51. Oh. I thought that you meant that you felt like giving up on bashing our Democratic candidates.

Now you're bashing our Democratic Congress.

[manic expression]

61. Is there a reason it shouldn't be bashed?

the Democrats in power don't want to change anything significant. This is painfully obvious and I wish more people would realize the futility of putting trust in the Democratic Party when they have refused to change things time and again.

[Rydz777]

54. Predicament

The predicament is that with a one vote majority, Lieberman gets to hold the Democratic majority hostage to his views. It's very disappointing when our soldiers continue to die and be maimed. At the least, I would hope for the Democrats to daily and LOUDLY point out the cost of pursuing this insanity - as Ted Kennedy has done.

[xchrom]

58. in spite of the ''disordered lovefest'' -- i agree with much

of what you say.

at soem point -- and even the republicans have said it -- you have to come down and BE for something.

otherwise what you do smacks of extraordinary inauthenticity -- and this is the major problem many americans hace with the democratic party -- the seem like feel like they are inauthentic.

that how republicans got to real political parity.

but i'm not going to expect worshippers at the Church of the Democratic Party to get that.

for them it's party nationalism, party religion and if you don't have that then you get the big fuck you.

[roody]

59. We are not going to change the world throught

electoral politics. There is and will be a massive change in people's consciousness. It is already happening in Latin America.

[LSK]

60. they cant do anything without 60 votes

God, I feel like a broken record trying to explain the basics of American Government.

[jannyk]

64. Yes they can!!!

They can take a stand! Fight for what's right win or lose. What's with the 'we'll only fight for issues we can win?' Fight tooth and nail for what you believe in and what you were elected to do! So you fucking lose - the country is behind you and the other side will lose even more 'support' by being seen to promote and escalate a war the majority want ended.

Take a fucking stand - make as much noise and fuss as you can doing it - no more 'couched' orchestrated platitudes. The truth is yours to play with, expose as much as you can along the way - but have the backbone to take a stand!!

[LSK]

66. you mean stuff like this?

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=110&session=1&vote=00051

How many times do you want them to get denied? Maybe theres other things to do like implement the 9/11 Commission recommendations and raising minimum wage?

[jannyk]

69. I'm well aware of what has been going on...

and I still say stand up and be counted. They weren't given a majority to increase minimum wage - and before you start I am thrilled they did - but it took the Senate far more time than it should and only after they caved in on tax breaks.

As for the 911 commission recs - it's 2007 for christ's sake - we've been 6 years without it and that's more pressing than Iraq? They definately didn't win over indies and borderline repugs on a platform of implementing 911 recommendations. Where is their sense of urgency and outrage? Apart from one or two individuals, I don't see it - not on the floor nor when they are being a talking head.

You won't convince me and I won't convince you - but I am utterly disgusted with the mealy mouthed, 'couched' speech I hear and the 'tabling' of an issue so important to this country and that will cost lives.

[cali]

67. I'm well aware of the fact that it takes 60 votes for cloture

but that doesn't mean that they can't try. Even though they failed to pass the non-binding resolution, it got Senators in the well, talking about the war for days. And it got in the press day after day. They may not be able to pass anything, but they could keep bringing it up. They chose not to.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

62. "Senate" C-SPAN is pretty bad

If I turn it on, most of the time there is the room, a few bored people, some classical music, and the words "Quorum call" or something like that. I don't think anything really ever happens in the Senate chamber.

Nice room, though.

[LSK]

63. actually I prefer the House Chamber

[blues90]

68. I wish I had something inspiring to say

I have pretty much lost faith in all politicians through the years and years of primises that never saw the light of day , at least 40 years of promises and yet things keep getting worse . Even with Clinton I felt well maybe , finally this time but no , he screwed things up pretty well too .

Politicians seem to be caught up in a game and it seems to be proto-call now . They live in a bubble .

It gets to the point where who do you trust and why and you need to trust many to get anything done .

The dems have been in the house and senate for many years , many of them , they should be on top of all of this yet they continue to drag along and do nothing drastic .

[moondust]

72. The problem with the Senate

is the supermajority needed to get things done. It may be a good thing at times to prevent the tyranny of a slight majority (of Senators), but it is now a barrier to the will of a large majority (of Americans).