It makes no difference which party is in power- the war in Iraq will go on.

[undeterred]

I don't believe this of course, but today I was at a Peace Coalition meeting where about 75% of the people feel this way. At one point I said that if McCain is elected, we know for sure the war will go on, whereas if a Democratic president is elected, there is a good chance the war in Iraq will be ended during the next administration.

A couple of other Dems chimed in to back me up but we were put in our places, being outnumbered by the furthur left crowd who believes that both parties are equally corrupt and unlikely to listen to constituents. All the antiwar activism is directed not towards elected officials, but towards other citizens, most of whom already agree with us.

I participate in this kind of activism once in a while just to stay in touch with the issue side of things but I find it very frustrating. It doesn't connect with real political power in any way, it just attempts to raise awareness- and for the most part the awareness is already there.

Yes, I am frustrated with the Democratic party- but what is the alternative? To choose a nonviable 3rd party? To abstain from voting? To pretend there is a revolution coming?

[Donkeykick]

1. I Agree. N/T

[undeterred]

2. I actually disagree with this statement...

Why do you agree?

[TheCowsCameHome]

3. We are in Iraq forever. To think otherwise is delusional.

The US will maintain a presence there in one form or another forever. There is no way we will ever be completely out.

[aquart]

13. What utter nonsense.

But how sad that you believe we still have a choice in the matter.

[TheCowsCameHome]

18. You really think we will ever be completely out of Iraq?

That's utter nonsense.

[CANDO]

4. The "occupation" will go on

The war was over when the "Village Idiot" declared it to be.

[OwnedByFerrets]

12. The only way we leave....

is if and when the situation HERE gets so very very bad that we cant have forces overseas any longer. And I am one who believes it could very well get that bad here.

[still_one]

5. I know one thing for sure, and that is where mccain stands on the issue

Both Clinton and Obama said they will withdraw

mccain said we will stay

Now maybe they are all not telling the truth, but I will take my chances with the Democratic nominee

and like you said there is no winable alternative except that

[Clear Blue Sky]

6. Of course we will.

The area is too important strategically for us not to be there.

We are still in the Pacific, S Korea and Germany decades after those wars ended.

[Bobbieo]

7. The US leaves Iraq and Iran will move in to establish a theocracy. The US

leaves Afghanistan and the Taliban will move in to establish a nation.
Damned if we do and danmed if we don't!

[Beregond2]

8. No difference?

That kind of cheap cynicsm is lazy and stupid. It appeals to people who would rather appear cool than actually think.

[Bobbieo]

9. The bottom line is we never should have gone there in the first place!!!

[pinto]

10. I think the details are important. Will either party get us out tomorrow? No.

Will the Republicans, under McCain pursue the established agenda of international disaster, continued intervention, further excursions down the same armed foreign policy with no room for international diplomacy? Yes.

Will the Democrats, under a Democratic President and a Democratic Congress, reign in our disaster in Iraq as safely and soon as possible, limit the culture of military intervention for purely political aims and work to rebuild international diplomacy as a viable tool? Yes.

I think the choice is clear. Understand the frustrations you saw, we all feel some of the same, yet I realize it's not going to be an overnight change.

That said, I appreciate the more vocal elements in our party who call for an immediate solution. They help keep the issue timely during our election marathon.

[undeterred]

11. Under Republican rule there is not a damn thing we can do

I don't know why we thought a Democratic Congress would help. Bush vetoes or throws tantrums about everything. We have to have the White House and the Congress. I know its not simple. But my God, there's a huge difference between McCain and Obama- there damn well better be.

[pinto]

15. Agree. We need the White House. Reagan's was damaging, but this one is deadly. n/t

[mdmc]

14. Ralph Nader would cut and run.

Kick

[undeterred]

16. So would Cynthia McKinney but it aint gonna happen.

[mdmc]

20. not with the corporations in charge

[roamer65]

17. Just like Gandhi told the British...

Eventually we will just walk out of Iraq.

[blues90]

19. We should never have been fools enough to allow this to happen

If the first place .

So many people were so full of fear that they actually wanted to attack Iraq .

Now people that supported this suddenly woke up ?

There we many who protested this damn thing but this did not matter because there were not enough of them even though this protest was world wide .

Now even and if we do pull out what about all the death and damage done ? I suppose it's just acceptable now for people to say, oh well we're so sorry . Does anyone actually think the people in Iraq who are still alive are going to forget this ?

We shouldn't forget this but people will and they will try to change our own country back to the good old in god we trust US of A and then sooner or later do the same damn thing all over again .

Once the sun comes out people forget it rained the day before .

This country is a damn joke with it's mindless greed and the american way and all that other crap . It's crap , complete and utter crap .

We have never learned a damn thing in all these years if we had bush would have never stolen the whitehouse or been allowed to attack Iraq in the first place .

Yeah , you can go out and vote and hope it's counted and hope if it is it goes to the candidate you chose and hope the candidate does some actual good other than being a slob in one way or another .

We still have bases all over the globe that don't belong there but they are there and what makes anyone think for a second Iraq will be any different ? Do you think the bases there were built as a joke ?

They are there to control the ME for damn ever because of the oil we need so much to get here and there because we don't have the foresight to have found a better way decades ago and people just love their person boxes on wheels calling it freedom of some perverted sort . They were sold on this idea on the TV ad's as they still are .

Now they look for new fuel efficient cars to still crowd the far to many highways and roads with . That's a real big deal , a deal of the century the 21st century after all .

I live in a city and the only people I see walking are walking their dogs with a cell phone pressed to their head , real quality time that is .

If people don't personally make things happen then they will never happen and that is the simple truth . You want a leader to tell you what to do well forget it , it will not ever work .

The US sits here with the enormous stock of nuclear bombs and holds the entire globe hostage because of this .

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

21. The Democrats have been in power in the congress and failed to stop the war.

I see little indication from either candidate that they have the courage to admit the reality of a lost war and pull out.