High school graduation rates less than 50% in inner cities

[Rex_Goodheart]

When will people start taking responsibility for their lives?

In America, if you stay in school, stay off drugs, and don't get pregnant in your teens your chances of living a good life are actually quite good.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,344190,00.html

End the politics of victimization.

[Burma Jones]

1. The problem goes far beyond inner cities......

http://www.higheredinfo.org/mapgen/stategraph.php?datacol=11407

[babylonsister]

2. When will this country make education a higher priority than war? nt

[Zywiec]

4. What war prevented you from graduating high school? n/t

[JTFrog]

5. Well NCLB to begin with. I consider it Bush's War on Education. n/t

[Zywiec]

8. I'm sorry to hear that. Maybe you can still get your GED.

Have you spoken with anyone here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=219

[mac2]

12. Lincoln was a self learner.

You have more choices than he did.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

21. NCLB is a war on the inner cities. Low scores, no funding. It's a catch 22. NCLB was based on the

"Houston Miracle" which was a fraudulent program established while Shrub was Gov. In order to prop up the results, failing high school students were talked into quitting school.

[Irishonly]

58. I Always Was Angry

when I read about the Houston miracle. When I first heard about it I was impressed and then I researched. Somehow, I ended up on a Texas teacher message board and almost every post was complaining about how testing was manipulated, tests were taught and how certain kids were excluded to make the numbers look good. Fraudulent is right. What was more maddening is no one in the MSM researched it or if they they kept quiet.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

83. Not only MSM, but our lawmakers who voted it in! Were these people just ignorant, lazy or

complicit when voting it into law?

It passed 381-41 in the House and 87-10 in the Senate.

[proud2BlibKansan]

93. A group of school board members and community leaders from my city

traveled to Houston to see for themselves what was happening there. And they came back shaking their heads, saying the schools were much more out of control than ours were. They couldn't figure out what the so-called miracle was all about.

[mac2]

115. It was about politics...Bush lies.

[JTFrog]

22. Kiss my ass. I have three special ed teenage boys in HS right now.

It matters quite a bit to me.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. I hear ya

Got your back here :hi:

[JTFrog]

27. Thank you so much.

Just hearing that helps me keep on treading.

:hi:

[proud2BlibKansan]

30. My blood is boiling

I can't stand seeing RW talking points here, especially covering a topic I am way too familiar with. Makes me wonder if Bill Bennett is now posting here. LOL

[Rex_Goodheart]

99. So, I suppose anything ever uttered by a rightwinger is automatically wrong...

No wonder your blood boils... your black and white world only admits extremes.

[proud2BlibKansan]

118. So far, I honestly have never agreed with the right wingers on anything

But if I did, I sure as hell wouldn't be posting it here. LOL

[mac2]

116. Me too.

[babylonsister]

7. That's not the issue; if we'd put more financial resources into inner city ed,

maybe this wouldn't be happening. But no, gotta feed the war machine.

[mac2]

9. Don't you think the inner city children also need to have fathers?

How can they when many of them are in jail for cheap labor? We have a huge prison population in this country. Many of them are Afro-American males. They are there for a long time too.

[babylonsister]

10. Wow. Nothing like that broad brush; you sound like Pat Buchanan. nt

[mac2]

14. Really...he was a law and order guy.

I think the poor serve more prison time than the rich. The prison industrial complex has profited on them. Plus they keep them in jail so they can't vote, etc. When they do serve their time many never make it in society because they lack education, training, etc. It keeps them "down".

"Let our people go."

[proud2BlibKansan]

29. Where the fuck are you getting these right wing talking points?

You need to go back to that forum you linked here in your obnoxious reply and maybe a few of the teachers there can teach you a thing or two about what our urban kids need. (P.S. It's really not tactful to call them 'inner city children'.)

[mac2]

47. Failing children and our enviornment should not be a party

issue.

[proud2BlibKansan]

50. Then why are you spouting rw talking points?

HELLO!?!?!

[mac2]

63. They aren't RW talk points....

I'm a Progressive.

[Irishonly]

84. Thank you

I was sputtering in my reply, deleted it and then saw yours. I taught special education for 22 years is diverse settings. I started in rural Iowa, taught Navajo, then in LA and always some form of special education. My favorite classes to teach were the gang bangers. Teachers in the so-called inner city were some of the best I have ever worked with period. Thank God, teachers don't pigeon hole kids. Good teachers change lives, don't give up and never look down on a child because of parents.

[proud2BlibKansan]

94. Bless you

I can't stand it when anyone pigeon holes our kids. There is more diversity and talent in my "inner city" school than in any suburban school I know of.

[Deja Q]

95. Or mothers.

All we have are single parents and kids with no discipline, and their relatives who find it more convenient to excommunicate themselves from their offspring that choose to be single parents.

This isn't 1900 anymore; single parents are too commonplace and shunning people isn't going to help them, or anybody else, long term. Regardless of the moral issue surrounding single parent families, there are issues of greater importance that are totally being ignored.

A two-parent environment is always best, but until we get "there" again, we have to do SOMETHING to piece the broken system back together. Shunning the single parents who want to do the right things is not the answer...

And if that means a 3rd party has to act like a nanny, so be it. For example, the shit that goes on in schools has GOT TO STOP. And when I swear, take notice...

[mac2]

110. The numbers of mothers in minority populations not in

jail is a lot higher. They have to work more than one job. Who targeted single parents? I'm saying they are having a hard time being a single parent on their own. I feel they need help.

How about some answers like...

We have to stop the prison system in this country from abusing minority and poor families for their own profit. Very few rich go to jail. It is discrimination and hurts those communities to have such long jail sentences for them (many times not violent crime). Isn't it a shame that we have more prisoners in this country than China who has a lot more population? What do you think that does to families?

[Wcross]

19. Detroit already spends well over the state average per student.

http://www.greatschools.net/cgi-bin/mi/district_profile/346/

Detroit spends over 11,000 per student while the state average is 9500. Some school districts spend HALF of what Detroit spends and still manage to graduate 90% of their students. Throwing more money at the problem does nothing but waste money.

[Rex_Goodheart]

24. Bingo.

How about automatic community service for anybody who drops out of school?

[proud2BlibKansan]

33. How about not letting them drop out?

We need to raise the dropout age to 18. Make them stay in school. That would solve many of our problems, including the dropout rate.

[mac2]

41. Here's some suggestions to bring those numbers down.

Many require federal funding.

1. The large immigrant population have needs that the community can not handle. Federal policy on huge immigration admission numbers and corporate tax cuts stress the state and community coffers. The corporations profit but not the community. Corporations of the community should pay their share to educate and meet the immigrants needs since they profit off of them.

2. Do statistics on city schools with larger immigrant populations to see what their needs are. Although they aren't stupid learning in new language is a difficult thing. Do not include that in the graduation rate since it might take longer. They drop out discouraged and feeling different. Encourage them to stay and finish their education if they are to succeed in this country.

3. When children fail to show up for school frequently the tuient officer would go to the home to find out why. If the parents did not force them to go to school then the courts would decide on a solution. I see kids in the malls when they should be in school. No one seems to care. Maybe their parents don't even know since they are working, etc. The children get so behind they can't catch up to the others and just drop out.

5. Just throwing money or vouchers for "choice" at the schools won't help if the problem is not known.

Cleveland did a voucher thing to improve education in their city. It was a failure. The Charter schools did not perform less than the private "Catholic schools" since they were both located in poverty areas. Fact is there was fraud regarding the program.

6. The schools in Cleveland did extensive testing. Usually the private schools are tested less/not the same, or not as much as the public ones. Most the private/religious school have classes only up to high school and that's where that ends. Young kids aren't much of discipline problem.

It would be interesting to see the test results for the high school level for private and public schools in non-poverty areas. Here in my suburban area outside Chicago three public students scored perfect on their SATs. It is a upper middle class area.

7. What impact is poverty having on students? Is there chaos at home so they can't think or do home work? Are their parents not there, etc. Drugs, etc.

Saying city school have 50% drop out numbers does not do it for this researcher. How did they count the variations? There is a drive\propaganda to ruin our public schools for private and religious ones (using our tax dollars). It ruins any chances of the poverty and poor students to become more. It is undemocratic.

We are not caring about our children or our old. That says what kind of government and society we have today.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. Good ideas for the most part

It is also smart to question how they gather these statistics. In my district, they only compare the freshamn enrollment number to senior year. So they count every kid who left the class. But not all dropped out. Some moved, some went to private and charter schools, some transferred to other schools in the same district. We actually have no way of knowing what our dropout rate actually is.

[mac2]

64. That is a statistical matter which they don't consider.

They just want so badly to say the public schools have failed to educate. We hear these parrots all over the place.

[AngryAmish]

42. see the 13th Amendment

Not allowed to do that anymore.

[RaleighNCDUer]

25. But what are they spending on?

State of the art computer labs? Or metal detectors for all entrances, and armed security guards with drug sniffing dogs?

Do you think, that for their money, the inner city schools are getting equivalent value? Or are they paying for extra layers of bureaucracy, security, and facility maintenance that comes with high density populations?

People have been tinkering with the public school system for decades, and every time there is a new theory they jump all over it - 30 years ago it was "all under one roof" - consolidating small neighborhood schools into large central schools to keep from duplicating costs. The result has been a disaster, in that the student populations are so large that students don't know the teachers, teachers don't know the students, the administration doesn't know anybody and the high density of students is much harder on the facilities, making the simple physical plant of the school harder to maintain. Now, 30 years later, along comes NCLB to punish those schools which were created under a flawed concept to begin with.

It's almost as if the RW, KNOWING that high density would make public schools unworkable, pushed that agenda with the intent of crippling the schools, then followed up with the killing blow of NCLB, in an effort to completely undermine the public school system.

If that was their intention, they are succeeding.

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. That's exactly what their intentions are

The RW WANTS our public schools to fail so they can have their precious vouchers. It is well documented that this is their intention. And they are succeeding. The poor kids are the first attending failing schools. Maybe once this spreads to the suburban areas, America will understand the evil agenda. Many of us in education have been complaining about this evil agenda for years. But is is falling on deaf ears.

[mac2]

43. Most the strange shootings are there too.

Very much a propaganda and even attack on public education.

[proud2BlibKansan]

32. Low income kids cost more to educate

It's pretty obvious why this is so. Just think about it for oh 30 seconds or so. :0

[Wcross]

36. But why is THIS city failing so miserably while others are not?

That is the question that needs to be answered.

[proud2BlibKansan]

37. Which city?

It's really more complicated than you are making it out to be. Don't you know if we understood the reasons we may be able to provide remedies?

[Wcross]

40. Uh, the post you responded to clearly says Detroit.

You claimed it only took you 30 seconds to figure it out. Is that not making it simpler than it truly is?

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. Sorry but I don't see Detroit in the post I responded to

On edit - just saw it two posts up. Thanks.

[Hannah Bell]

54. Possibly because Detroit has one of the highest poverty rates

in the country & its tax base has been defunded by the flight of the auto industry & anyone who had the means to get out?

[mac2]

65. American corportions profitted off consumers, our technology, educated workers, etc. but don't want

to pay their share. They hide their profits in off-shore banks. CEOs take big bucks for themseles. The rich don't pay their share. Workers are not paying taxes since many aren't working or in low wage jobs. So who is going to keep the cities going?

[Hannah Bell]

80. when they drop prices & wages low enough, they'll reinvest there.

they already own it.

[mac2]

107. It will too late since our infrastructure and public education

system will be in such terrible shape. It has been the aim of the RWers to ruin even our great universities. They under fund them and hire incompetent RWers. They go after any teacher who questions the system.

[Romulox]

128. A: Economic devastation caused by neoliberal trade policies under the Bush and Clinton admins

[otherlander]

91. Only those who have shall receive.

:grr:

[mac2]

44. Detroit has a large poverty level and immigrat population.

They need that money.

[Romulox]

127. Detroit doesn't have a particularly large immigrant population

But it does have a great deal of poverty.

Dearborn, where I live, has a large number of Middle Easterners, but census data shows this community has higher levels of educational attainment than the general population.

[proud2BlibKansan]

3. The sky is blue and the grass is green

[mac2]

6. Inner city problems

The inner city problems are almost over whelming for the young. They are without fathers and live in chaos. Everyday their moms struggle just to feed and cloth them.

The large number of Afro-American males in jail today result in social problems for their community and families. There are fewer choices for women and their children.

Pressure from their own peer groups put them on drugs. Yes...a few will make it out but they also are in danger of being killed since they are different than the other members of the group. It is my opinion that we put these few in danger by holding them up to the community as a role model. It causes jealously. Afro-Americans raised in mixed communities have a much better chance in life because of this.

In my opinoin, all schools should keep marks and "special students" secret until the graduation. Why should one strive for better grades when the top have been picked all the way up from the 1st grade? In my high school no one knew who the top students were on the National Honor Society honor roll until our junior year. At least not much attention was paid to it. It's the teachers themselves who separate out the "gifted" and treat them special. Yes..everyone has a gift in life and it might not be in math, etc.

[Fumesucker]

11. The leaders don't take responsibility..

Why should the kid on the street take responsibility?

I'll believe that America takes personal responsibility seriously the day Bush and Ctheney are impeached.

[mac2]

13. You are right. They are not exactly good role models.

[Rex_Goodheart]

15. You're kidding, right?

A young person shouldn't take responsibility for his own life because Bush should be impeached?

You're not helping the problem.

What would help is if our leaders started reminding people that they have the most control over their own futures.

[mac2]

16. Our leaders are corrupt not just Bush

That's not a good example for the young. We are talking about the young in our society taking responsibility when their adult role models\leaders don't. They're kids.

[Celeborn Skywalker]

17. Exactly!

When did we start blaming the victim on this website?

[Rex_Goodheart]

18. Somebody who drops out of school is a victim?

Sorry, but in most cases I don't agree. Maybe it's time we should stop with the self-fulfilling prophecies?

[RaleighNCDUer]

31. There are as many reasons for dropping out as there are dropouts.

One kid drops out because he's a simple-minded bully who thinks he can make it by being tough on the streets. Another drops out because he's afraid of walking on those streets where the bully intercepts him on the way to school and beats him up and takes his money.

Another drops out because he joined up with a gang, for protection on the streets, but caught up in gangster life he is sent away for petty crimes. Another drops out because he's with one gang, but another gang controls the street between his home and the school and he doesn't dare violate their turf.

One kid drops out to deal drugs. Another drops out to work full time, to support his siblings.

One drops out because he's not real quick, and school makes him feel dumb. Another drops out because there's no challenge there, he's reading at college level in 9th grage and the world is just too big and exciting for him to waste his time being bored.

Given the choice, nearly ALL dropouts would not drop out if their needs were being met by the school. Nearly all dropouts don't see they have any choice. The fact is, minors are, by definition, at effect in the world - there is little they can do to control their own lives. They are at the mercy of their parents or guardians, the courts, the school system. When these controllers fail them they ARE victims.

[mac2]

45. Yes...the schools fail to meet their needs.

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. Yes they are

Of poverty, of crime and of low expectations (like yours).

[mac2]

48. Nasty comment to any blogger.

[proud2BlibKansan]

53. Then alert on it

[Rex_Goodheart]

97. It's YOU who are saddling them with low expectations

It's YOU who are excusing away an appalling dropout rate.

Yes, there are many reasons why any particular child might drop out of school, but to exclude personal choice as one of them only serves to propagate the disaster.

[kwassa]

59. You appear to know very little about public education

I haven't seen an analysis as wildly simplistic as yours in a very long time.

What credentials due you have in education?

[mac2]

67. Haven't you heard educators and social scientists on CSPAN

talk about the problems of the inner cities? What is your suggestion to help?

[Fumesucker]

28. I'm just pointing out the gigantic double standard

Young people are far more observant than most adults give them credit for.

Do as I say, not as I do, does not, has not and will never work.

When they start having cheerleaders and pep rallies for the debate team I'll believe that schools really care about academics more than sports.

[mac2]

49. How about a balanced education to live a healthy and happy

life? That includes sports and art.

[Fumesucker]

72. Most children do not have to be pushed into sports..

At least that was so when I was a kid.. I was what used to be called a "bookworm" and yet I played many very physical games as well.

The majority of kids have to be pushed into academics, it's not something that comes to a great many people naturally.

Like I said, I'll believe that schools are serious about academics when I see cheerleaders and pep rallies for academic competitions instead of just sports.

Art is good too, I have no problem with art programs in schools.

[Hannah Bell]

123. What would help is if our so-called "leaders" did jail time.

No child left behind is DESIGNED to classify the majority of schools in the US as "failed". It EXPLICITLY ends with that result.

Your numbers are bogus. 30-50% of young people are NOT high school drop-outs.

[One_Life_To_Give]

20. Local Issues dominate

The solutions have to be tailored to the local conditions, causes and individuals. The child in Brooklyn and the Child in East Oshkosh may share the same outcome of not graduating but the details of why can be very different.

Just because a volunteer ambulance staffed by high school kids works in one location, to give kids focus and keep them out of trouble. Doesn't mean that it will work equally well in all locations.

[mac2]

46. East Oshkosh have no drugs or poverty?

Parents who don't care? No fathers at home, etc.?

Ok so they do but what is done to help that child?

[One_Life_To_Give]

126. Like politics solutions are local

In Ellington you can take a kid who is not college bound and likely headed for trouble to one degree or another. Put them into a group of similar kids with the expectation that they run the first responder ambulance for the town with minimal adult supervision. (In CT one must be 18 to drive an Ambulance with Lights and Siren but only 16 to be Emergency Medical Technician.)Not only does it keep the kids out of trouble. But you can guess what careers many of these kids will persue upon graduation.

[Rex_Goodheart]

23. What would Frederick Douglass think

of young people who drop out of school?

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. He would probably attribute it to racism in our society

and the low expectations we have of our African American kids. I doubt very seriously he would blame the kids.

[pitohui]

39. whatever

i know lots of people who stayed in school and even have advanced degrees, wouldn't know an illegal drug if a snake bit 'em, and didn't have the physical equipment to get PG in their teens (they're male) or took the appropriate precautions and are still childless even into their 40s and 50s -- and a good many of them have still had the usual run of terrible tragedies including total loss of everything they possessed in the hurricanes or the wildfires, inability to receive a job for many many years because of economic forces beyond their control (esp. true in the 80s and early 90s), or financial devastation caused by serious illness and lack of adequate access to medical insurance in this country (an ongoing issue that just gets worse and worse and is never helped by having gotten in debt in earlier years to student loans)

you can do everything right and still get fucked, i know plenty of former hard working homeowners in the greater new orleans area who are still struggling

it's nice fantasy that bad things only happen to bad, lazy people -- but it's only a fantasy -- i hope it comforts you now, because once a terrible tragedy happens to you, you are going to be psychologically crushed by the religious belief that bad things only happen to bad people

even the bibble sez that the rain falls on the just and the unjust alike

all you can do is try to increase the odds in your favor, but if you don't understand that shit happens and that victims exist, god help you when you're a victim -- you have the double burden of the tragedy and ALSO the self hate and the self blame -- guess maybe you would have earned it tho? hmmm...!

many people drop out of high school because of harassment, because of bullying, because of violence

disclosure -- i was myself a high school drop out, however, in my day, a person could score at a certain level on the ACT and be guaranteed admittance to the state universities, where i was able to prove myself in an atmosphere away from the negative atmosphere of high school -- a loophole that our wondrous legislators closed in the late 80s -- too bad, i'm not the only person i know who used the loophole, now closed for a long time to younger people

our society pretends it wants to give kids a chance, but if a kid actually tries to reach for a chance, every effort is made to slam the door in her face

[mac2]

82. You or anyone with your problem today might consider

attending night university a course or two at a time (part time) to show you can do the work. Apply for full time student status later.

If you didn't complete high school then get a GED and continue from there.

Bill Cosby tells the story about being a drop out. He talked his way back into college later on.

[pitohui]

87. okay but look that's a lot more barriers than i had

taking one test and then being automatically admitted into a state university on the basis of achieving a known score that you know what it is ahead of time, let's face it, that's a lot simpler process than taking a series of tests starting with the GED and then taking the ACT/SAT and trying to convince someone that maybe you're deserving

you honestly don't see the difference?

at the time i'm talking about, if i made a 27 on the ACT, then my lack of a high school diploma or GED or a teacher who wanted to mentor me became irrelevant, they had to admit me to the university -- where i ended up doing very well

i did not have to convince anyone i was "deserving," i did not have to kiss anybody's ass, i had an objective goal that i could meet inexpensively and easily

this option has been taken away

not everybody is as well spoken as bill cosby, if going to college required me to be articulate and to "talk my way in" i would never have been allowed to attend at all -- there are lots of people (think nerds) whose gifts are in the area of math or science, not in the gift of gab

people who can "talk their way in" to something don't need degrees, they will always be able to earn a good living in sales

it's the rest of us who maybe need to catch a break once in awhile

[mac2]

104. I never took a SAT or ACT since my family were divorced

and I was from a big family. There was no money for college.

When I decided to go to college while working to support myself, they said I made too much money to get a scholarship. At the time I needed my father to fill out forms as to his earnings, etc. which he refused to do.

I went to admissions and talked to them about night university. I was no silver tongued salesperson either. I did have lots of good references and activities in HS. I graduated in the top of my class but never knew of the tests to get into college because my family said, it was out for me. I believed them until I thought...oh why not!

Yes...my family and HS guidance councilor were not looking after my best interest. Many kids live like that today. Their families have low expectations for them. That is in all races and levels of income I'm afraid.

[readmoreoften]

55. Not inner cities just cities.

It's not like there's a lower than 50% rate in the ghetto. It's across the board. In the suburbs it's only around 77% high school graduation.

[Hannah Bell]

56. Let's start with Wall Street.

The fish rots from the head.

Today papers were signed to put the taxpayers on the hook for Bear Sterns.

But I'm sure the "irresponsibility" of teenage dropouts is the REaL problem.

Maybe some decent paying jobs to look forward to might help more kids appreciate the value of education.

[mac2]

75. They rush to have hearings to bail out corporations and sports

drug problems but they won't have hearings on important problems of the poor and sick. Let the Faith Based Funding take care of that is their answer to that.

[huskerlaw]

57. The dropout rate in South-Central Los Angeles is 75%

according to one of the speakers at the CA State Democratic Convention last weekend.

Absolutely horrifying.

[mac2]

69. 200 different languages in LA school systems....

More immigrants then the community can handle. What do you think is going to happen?

[huskerlaw]

70. Really?

You're going to blame that on immigration? That's ridiculous.

I'm sure it has nothing to do with the fact that the state refuses to fund the schools. Or that CA is 46th in the country in spending per student.

But please do blame the immigrants. :eyes:

[mac2]

73. Have you listened to the people of LA and their problems with

their school systems? Even Arnold is upset about it.

[huskerlaw]

85. Arnold doesn't act very upset about it

since he's cutting 10% of their funding. Doesn't really sound like someone who gives a flying fuck to me.

As for listening to the people of LA, yes, I have. In fact, I am one.

[mac2]

111. CA is deep in debt. Arnold even closed many of their park

lands.

[huskerlaw]

119. Arnold did an across the board 10% cut

He did not think that education should be a priority. 10% is the equivalent of the money that would be saved if every single school in the Los Angeles Unified Public School District shut down for an entire YEAR.

That does not sound to me like the actions of a person who gives a crap about education. He didn't even LOOK for ways to make cuts elsewhere.

[mac2]

76. Who else is stressing the LA school systems because special

teachers, etc. are needed?

[huskerlaw]

86. I'm not sure

what you're trying to get at, but I don't care who else is stressing LA schools. And the only reason I did is because I live here and certain parts of our city have a worse drop-out percentage than that stated in the OP.

[mac2]

112. They need helpers or teachers who speak all those different

languages since by law they are required to educate them.

[huskerlaw]

120. Yes, well...

because of Arnold's ridiculous budget they have already cut 16,000 teachers. That could end up being as much as 44,000 by the end of the year.

Tell me again how this is the immigrants' fault and not our governor's?

[mac2]

121. It's the RW economy and the huge flow of new students...

http://www.spencer.org/publications/conferences/Immigration/report.htm

Just one of many article of many on the impact on education. Google it.

I don't support Arnold nor his laying off teachers in such great numbers. The technology sector was off shored and the tax dollars went with it. Farming, etc. mostly gone too. Whose left to pay taxes?

[huskerlaw]

122. That's odd. I was a delegate

at the California State Democratic Convention this weekend, and education was a main topic and NOBODY...from mayors to congress members to the Superintendent of Schools mentioned immigration as a cause of California's problem with education. Hell, they didn't even mention it in the Immigration Forum.

But I'm sure you and google would know better than the leaders of the state of California.

As for the taxes, it would sure help if we actually taxed the corporations who DO exist here. Or maybe even closed that pesky yacht loophole. If Arnold wanted to know how California can prioritize and have a good education system even with a crappy economy, he would need look no farther than Mayor Gavin Newsom and the city of San Francisco. But he can't be bothered to do that.

Don't go blaming immigrants when there are clearly other issues that more directly impact the education system. Frankly, that's something a Republican would do.

[kwassa]

60. I thought this OP was an April's Fools spoof.

"the politics of victimization" is as RW as it gets. It is the excuse the conservatives use to do absolutely nothing. Poor people are to blame for being poor, judging by this OP.

In America, if you stay in school, stay off drugs, and don't get pregnant in your teens your chances of living a good life are actually quite good.

Wow! What a simple solution! Where is your proof for this, Rex?

[Kingofalldems]

61. And the Fox News link

I'm half expecting a "Democrat party" reference. Glad I wasn't the only one who noticed this.

[Skittles]

103. it's pretty standard fare for that OP

*yawn*

[Deja Q]

96. I don't know if the OP was an April 1st joke or not, but I couldn't care less...

The OP and subsequent responses by people have provoked real conversation. Even if the OP was a tad too two-dimensional...

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

62. The education system is broken at *every level*

Parents, teachers, boards of education, local and state office holders, congress, the president...

According to the U.S. Department of Education, taxpayer expenditures for education this school year is over $501.3 billion. Rounding to $500 billion this gives us a ballpark estimate of $10,000 per school-age child. (Note that this is an underestimate, since the actual number of public school students is closer to 46 million, giving us an average of about $10,870 per kid in public school.)

Money being sent to the schools is *not* the issue. The issue is how are they being spent when they get there. DC Spends more per student than 48 whole states! with only NY spending more do you think money is their issue..

It cultural from parents to presidents nobody seems to really take it seriously..

[mac2]

66. The country and it's economy is broken.

In debt countries are third world. Only their resources are plundered.

[readmoreoften]

68. The new report that came out today was much worse.

http://www.americaspromise.org/uploadedFiles/AmericasPromiseAlliance/Dropout_Crisis/SWANSONCitiesInCrisis040108.pdf

Best district is Mesa with 77.1%
Worse is Detroit with 24.%

Indianapolis Public Schools scored 30.5%
Cleveland Municipal City School District 34.9

[proud2BlibKansan]

71. They are using the funny statistical model

Counting the number of kids in each class doesn't tell you the true drop out rate. That model makes no allowance for kids who transfer to other schools, move to another district or to private or charter schools.

In other words, it's crap.

Yes we have a problem. But let's count correctly so we have good data. :)

[mac2]

74. The poor are transit since they move around for jobs...

Farm workers are migrants and have to move frequently. Their children can't learn when moved so much from school to school.

[hellbound-liberal]

77. When I taught in a school outside of DC, 10% of our students registered on or after the 1st day

of school. Since our school had 2300 students that meant that over 200 students had to be scheduled and placed in classes after instruction had already started. You can imagine the effects that this has on the population of the school as a whole. We kept getting kids put into our class until we hit 41 and then we put our foot down. In the meantime, we didn't have enough desks for all of the students in the room, we could not implement a seating chart and discipline suffered tremendously. Unfortunately, things didn't settle down for a couple of weeks. This is only one example of some of the things that impacted our ability to teach. The problems facing inner city schools are way more complicated and entrenched than many people are willing to admit.

[mac2]

78. Thanks for your career to educate our young.

Guess we are going to have to think outside the box to solve many of them. Just when the Afro-American community was advancing to better jobs and education this administration put them back to worse off than ever. Now we have even more minorities with problems in our society with uncontrolled immigration.

[hellbound-liberal]

81. Unfortunately, the same minds that came up with NCLB will

be called upon to help "solve" the problems of inner city schools. It doesn't look promising. I see it as a "society-wide" problem where our society does not value education, therefore the children who are brought up inj this society don't value it either. Until that changes, I don't see a whole lot of progress being made.

[mac2]

114. Yes...it was a Bush plan for profit by his bother. Closing failing

schools is just ridiculous. Got any suggestions?

[proud2BlibKansan]

79. That's very true

But we don't know for sure that they have dropped out. They are most likely just attending a different school.

[Zynx]

89. Indeed. I don't see a 30% dropout rate or anything close to it.

[Zynx]

88. Suburban school districts work pretty well.

There are particular issues that make urban schooling more difficult. Poverty and crime are both significantly higher, just for starters.

[mac2]

106. Your wouldn't know that by the media and CSPAN RW propagandists

[otherlander]

90. What do you expect?

Even if they've got responsible parents to look out for them, they see their parents working jobs, working with the system, and getting what in return? Nothing! So what motivation do they have to work with the soul-crushing system when it provides so little compensation? I'm fairly certain that the only reason so many suburbanites stay in high school is because they know they'll be re-compensated with a nice car and a college education on their parents' money. Maybe if we had an educational system that wasn't soul-crushing, that actually kept kids in it on its own merits, didn't kill their curiosity but encouraged it, we wouldn't be seeing this.

[Rex_Goodheart]

98. Your cynicism is amazing

They get NOTHING? Hogwash.

[Skittles]

102. how about we say it in less sensationalistic terms

THEY'RE WORKING MORE AND MORE AND GETTING LESS AND LESS

[Rex_Goodheart]

108. That applies to people in the suburbs, too

[Skittles]

109. inner cities were hit much, much harder

stop trolling, PLEASE

[Deja Q]

92. As soon as we remember we're a society and have to speak up about others.

We're all in this together. Or, if nothing else, stay out of the big urban areas and let the rabble kill each other. All they want to do is breed and smoke weed, and I tried helping people in the past. Kinda hard to help when they openly refuse or, worse, frame you for vile crimes...

But I digress. But when somebody says "In order to put things to rights, we need to _______________" -- the ______________ part is usually argued and bickered over until everybody stops giving a crap. The solutions seem damn simple, but somebody always ends up offended and we can't have that... except someone still gets offended. Usually the ones who don't deserve to be.

Never mind offshoring and other incentives for people stopping giving a damn either...

Sorry for speaking in riddles. Say anything and you'll be flamed like a hamburger patty.

[Juche]

100. Universal pre-school may help

http://rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9164.5/index1.html


Percent Improvement Relative to the Baseline

High-school dropouts 16%


Better nutrition can also help, I have read various studies about how deficiencies in minerals, vitamins or certain fats and proteins can hinder learning.

The real question is how is this the fault of some 16 year old kid? Did they have a say in what socioeconomic status they'd be born, or if they'd go to pre-school?

Personal responsbility plays a role, but so do a myriad of factors outside of the kids control. You need to address as many factors as possible to improve graduation rates.

Blaming the child and the child alone is the easy way out. Every complex problem has a simple, and incorrect answer. And blaming teenagers for situations which are affected by tons of factors out of their control is one of them.

[mac2]

105. Right!

[Forkboy]

101. Boy, am I shocked to see you say that!

:eyes:

[Rex]

113. Yikes, that is sad.

Yet we can't spend one more DIME on education, you know we would just be throwing money at the fire. NOT like Iraq, nope. Real stuff going on over there! So we don't have to do it here. Series. People can have a great life in America if there wasn't an agenda in place to keep the masses stupid.

[mac2]

117. Congressman Sanders talks about education in Finland

with Ambassador Pekka Lintu of Finland. Sanders had a talk in Vermont when he came to visit them. Finish students rank among the highest in the world.

http://www.sanders.senate.gov/news/record.cfm?id=295091

Someone is talking out side the box and has some good ideas. If it fails we go and do something else. What choice do we have? Leave no child behind is make sure every child is left behind...especially public school students.

[Hannah Bell]

124. Fox News lies; the research group is a neo-con front:

DPS spokesman Lekan Oguntoyinbo acknowledges the district's graduation rate is nowhere near what it should be, but it's certainly not 25 percent. The state calculated the rate at 60.9 percent.

"Education Week is saying the state doesn't know what it's doing," Oguntoyinbo said. "This is insulting to our hardworking students, faculty, staff and parents.

Michigan calculates graduation rates differently, and its rates are far higher than the EPE study. The state says the overall Michigan graduation rate for 2004 was 88.7 percent; EPE says it was 69.1 percent.

"Every methodology will invariably give you a different result," said Greg Bird, a spokesman for the state Center for Educational Performance and Information. In future reports, Michigan will track individual students and take into account transfers, he said.

A similar study last year found Detroit schools graduated 21.7 percent of students.

The Education Week report compared a district's freshmen in the fall of 1999 to the number of diplomas awarded in 2004 and didn't take into account student transfers. During the four years studied by Education Week, the number of students transferring to Michigan charter schools more than doubled, to more than 73,000 students.

Perhaps more than measuring dropouts, the district's number may reflect that flight. More than 51,000 ex-DPS students are enrolled elsewhere, The Detroit News reported this year.

Under the Education Week formula, Cortina Thomas will be counted as a DPS dropout, even though she graduated Saturday.

http://www.uwsem.org/blogist/2007/06/report-dps-has-25-graduation-rate.html

[devilgrrl]

125. Failing schools - A GOP Mission Accomplished

The destruction of public schooling has been the plan since the Reagan 80's - anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.