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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 05:00 PM
Original message
Look at what the FreeRepublic posted about McCain back in 2000...
This morning I heard McCain mention some air base, or academy that was named after his father. This made me very interested in learning more about Admiral Edmond John McCain.

Google had a few hits, but nothing really to talk about. ...Isn't it fishy that Google has next to nothing on an ex-Commander in Chief of our U.S. Naval Forces in Europe? Just knowing there's an entity out there named after the guy, you'd think you'd find something, -anything on him, but nothing.

On my quest I did happen upon this ( I would copy paste it here but the FreeRepublic is proctected by "copyright laws")

http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a389f1b2d220e.htm

It's a copy of a letter written back in 2000, to Richard Danzig, U.S. SECRETARY OF THE NAVY, from a Joe L. Jordan, Navy Squadron VQ-1(Ret.)

The letter was calling for John McCain's combat decorations to be revoked.




We have to make it impossible for anyone to believe John McCain (a womanizing, silver spooned fed, husband of a corporate chairwoman/ex-junkie with a criminal record) could ever win an honest election.


Kick if you want to take down McCain!!




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Parche Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 05:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. McCain
His grandfather was Vice Admiral commander Task Force 38 1944-1945 Under Admiral Halsey 3rd fleet

His father was commander of the USS Gunnel submarine......1943/44

:woohoo:
:hi:
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Wow, thanks. Now do you have any dirt on them? :) ..n/t
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Jim Lane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
41. More detail about McCain's father and grandfather.
Each of them has a Wikipedia article.

Father:
Grandfather:
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #41
46. I found info saying his father's name was Edmond John McCain..
...That's strange.

Thanks for the links! :)
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ThatsMyBarack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. So that would make McCain a JUNIOR junior?
Edited on Wed Apr-02-08 05:46 PM by danagsk8
:shrug:
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Jim Lane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:17 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. Worse, he's a Roman numeral
His full name is "John Sidney McCain III", according to .

The Clinton supporters, Obama supporters, and undecideds here can all unite in relief that our candidate, whoever it is, won't be carrying around that traditional emblem of the American ruling class, the Roman numeral.

No offense meant to any DUers who have Roman numerals....
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Oceansaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
2. McCain is a pure douche bag...n/t
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Rosa Luxemburg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
3. Most thoroughly recommended
not to mention what GW Bush said about McCain in the GOP primaries back then! LOL!

:kick:
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
13. Thanks for the recommend...
I would love to see DU get excited about working against McCain.
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greenbriar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 05:15 PM
Response to Original message
4.  A pleasure to rec against McLame and not see fighting
between our own
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Jack Bone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
5. I never thought I'd be K&R'ing a thread from the Freepers...
We do live in very interesting times.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. Manchurian candidate
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Save this
before they remove it.
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alfredo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I've got it in my mccain folder.
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Qutzupalotl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. Good thing the freepers could never find anyting like that on DU
about Clinton or Obama.
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. One of the things I like about DU is that most of us put our country before our party.
We push for the best candidate for the job, and honest elections!!
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
8. That was my first foray over to the site that shalt not be named. I have to
say it was an interesting thread.

They hated McCain over there back then. Do they support him now?
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chat_noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. (3/31/08) Attn McCain Apologists: Talk all you want! (Vanity)
Vanity | 03/31/2008 | Jim Robinson

Posted on 03/31/2008 9:57:22 PM PDT by Jim Robinson

Attn McCain Apologists: Talk all you want!

But he's still a constitution trampling RINO and unless he repeals McCain-Feingold, repudiates amnesty and global warming, drops all support for embryonic stem cell research and stops talking about partnering up with the Democrats and instead swears to fight the evil bastards he won't be getting my support.

You kicked the conservatives to the curb and nominated your RINO, now all you gotta do is get him elected.

However, that shouldn't be all that tough to do. Look what he'll be running against. A corrupt, power hungry Marxist radical feminist control freak or a corrupt, America-hating racist Marxist surrender monkey (oops, can I say "surrender monkey" in this context?). Can't see America going for either of those two useful idiots.

By the way, "change" is a Marxist codeword.

As they say, America deserves better.

Carry on.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1994885/posts


RimJob is the owner of Free Republic LLC


Somewhere I have some of the choice comments made about Dubya in 1999...




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Greyskye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
9. I checked their source - I need to take a long, long, hot shower.
This is what the FR post linked to as a source: http://www.usvetdsp.com/

I just :puke: a little in my mouth. The stories on the front page are half hit pieces on McCain, and half hit pieces on Obama. :puke: :puke: :puke:
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-01-08 10:00 PM
Response to Original message
15. "McCain returned from captivity weighing 10 pounds heavier than when captured."
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
16. Wow, this thread has been on the Greatest page...
...for over ten hours and only ten kicks to take down McCain. :shrug:
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Because this is a loser argument
All people know about mccain is his time as a POW and that's all they want to know. And frankly, I personally have no desire to swim in the sewers with the freepers using shit like this. There are plenty of legitimate things to attack mccain on - we don't need to use this crap.
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 08:15 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. After what the Swift Boaters did to Kerry, you don't even want to touch this?
We have Hillary "throwing the kitchen sink" at a fellow dem but we shouldn't touch McCain's heroic image; the image the everyone associates with him?

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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Thank you Kathy, no quarter..
McCain is going to make his military career the cornerstone of his campaign. If we're afraid to touch it, then we're giving him a free ride. John Kerry was not given that luxury by the repubs was he?

We need to get over this fear of attack.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. Knock yourself out
When people come to know why he can't lift his arms over his head, the sympathy will overcome everything. Aren't there more compelling arguments to use (his ridiculously conservative voting record for one)? And after you saw what they did to Kerry, you really feel comfortable swimming in the sewer with these people?
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. I’ll “swim in the sewer” if it keeps my kids out of Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia......
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. I'm afraid it will backfire
This man was a POW for 5 years and has the scars to prove it. I don't think going after his military record is the answer. Screaming from the rooftops that he wants this war to go on for 100 years is the way to go - I'll even provide the megaphone. Fortunately his senate record speaks for itself and he will not be able to portray himself as a moderate for long. These are the things we need to push. I also don't think the stuff about his needing adult diapers is the answer as the elderly are the most loyal voters and will not appreciate the infantile humor in that.
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. McCain was on Letterman last night. He explained his "100 year" comment.
That issue was put to rest.

He spoke how we're still in Germany.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. I'd still use it against him
There is a vast difference in peoples feelings regarding western Europe and the middle east. And I'd further use the argument to push the idea it's all about the oil.
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. You're 100% right, "it's all about the oil" (and investment banking)
:toast:
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krispos42 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #27
38. yeah, but we're not fighting in Germany
or South Korea, or Italy. That's the difference.

Also, we're in Europe as part of a mutual self-defense alliance, not because Germany has a shitload of oil.
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #38
39. Point taken. ...n/t
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. What we don't need is any weak-kneed Dems...
Who are afraid to fight back, they will show no mercy to our nominee. I say do whatever it takes..
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. If it's concerning a winning argument
I agree, I don't feel this is a winning argument when there are so many other things to attack mccain on.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 09:09 AM
Response to Reply #18
28. Bullshit!
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. Well at least you have a well
reasoned argument against my post.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 10:14 AM
Response to Reply #33
37. Hit him hard and hit him often...
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. I agree to hit him hard
I'm afraid of the boomerang. There are so many issues to hit this man on, I just don't think going after a POW is a winner. Could be wrong - wouldn't be the first time.
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butterfly77 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #40
42. I am so tired of hearing that you can go after him just because ..
he is a POW is he more important than the soldiers who were still fighting and getting maimed or killed at that time was his suffering more than theirs, he more important than Kerry and the other guy (I can't remember name) I think its Cleland is he more important than they and their service why can't we ask questions or question what is being told to us if we don't agree,but they can. That is what is wrong with this country they always try to hide what everyone is already thinking many shoul have enough sense to think without believing any and everything that the media tells them to. THis is the same thing that is going on with the Rev.Wright situation everyone knows that a lot of people here and other sites have been saying the same things for years and Ron Paul said some of the same things but, they just don't like who said it or how it was said. Like I said Bullshit!
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Unfortunately we live in a soundbite nation
with a population with a short attention span (that's why soundbites work so well). I was sickened by the attacks on both Senators Kerry and Cleland and I guess that's why the thought of going down that path with mccain doesn't sit well with me. I also don't think that's the kind of campaign that Senator Obama wants to run. I guess the 527 groups can get around that but I know I'll cringe when I see those ads. I'm all for going after his warmongering record on votes and things he has said, going after his absurdly conservative record while speaking of being a moderate, his connection to the Keating Five - all of those are good.
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
19. Says McCain collaborated with his captors, got medals he never earned
Here's the gist of it:

The medals awarded are questionable in themselves as they reward McCain for his alleged "Outstanding Resistance" while a prisoner of war (POW) in Hanoi. McCain has admitted he collaborated and gave vital secrets about the Aircraft Carriers Oriskany and Forrestal in order to get a hospital operation for wounds he received when he ejected. McCain was still signing "War criminal confessions" and making radio broadcasts to American pilots and soldiers urging them to surrender and refuse orders to fight five years after his wounds healed.

Also, returned POWs USAF Colonels Larson and Guy say they doubt McCain was ever tortured at any time in any way. McCain returned from captivity weighing 10 pounds heavier than when captured.

There is a picture of him eating a large meal in the Foreign Ministry where he allowed himself to be interviwed for a newspaper article he knew would be published in Havana. He was wearing a jogging suit under his prison pajamas. No other returned POW said they received hospital surgery, got a jogging suit for the cold winter or had a big meal in the Foreign Ministry. So much for McCain's "Outstanding Resistance in Keeping with the Navy's Highest Traditions"!


Copied that thread at FP. No further comment at this time.

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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. I place all soldiers in high regard...
But McCain is seen as a hero, and for that reason alone, he may become our next president. Most voters don’t even know the “issues”, they vote for whoever they’d rather have a beer with. McCain went through hell, but he’s portrayed as a super human Yankee Doodle American.

I have sympathy for McCain but he’s a survivor, NOT some kind of mythical super hero.

McCain was taken to Gai Lam military hospital normally unavailable to American POWS. (U.S. government documents)

"Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to terminate my medical treatment if I did not cooperate. Eventually, I gave them my ship's name and squadron number, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant." Page 193-194, Faith of My Fathers by John McCain.

Nov. 9, 1967 (U.S. government documents) Hanoi press began quoting him giving specific military information.

One report dated read, "To a question of the correspondent, McCain answered: 'My assignment to the Oriskany, I told myself, was due to serious losses in pilots, which were sustained by this aircraft carrier (due to its raids on the North Vietnam territory - VNA) and which necessitated replacements. From 10 to 12 pilots were transferred like me from the Forrestal to the Oriskany. Before I was shot down, we had made several sorties. Altogether, I made about 23 flights over North Vietnam.”

In that report, McCain was quoted describing the number of aircraft in his flight, information about rescue ships, and the order of which his attack was supposed to take place.

http://www.usvetdsp.com/mcianhro.htm


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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #24
32. It goes beyond talking to interrogators. McCain made at least 1, as many as 38 propaganda broadcasts
There's another RW hit piece written about McCain that we should take a look at. In some ways, it's even more damaging (and more persuasive) than the piece linked above. It makes a serious argument that POW McCain was tortured using Soviet techniques and drugs, resulting in, at least, permanent neuropsychiatric damage. McCain refuses to reveal the drugs he still takes for physical and psychiatric damage, and for his recurrent cancers.

It seems clear that McCain not only talked, he made propaganda broadcasts calling for US airmen, sailors and troops to mutiny. He cooperated with his captors in ways that few other American POWs did. See, http://www.usvetdsp.com/mar08/mccain_manchurian.htm

SNIP

McCain has never been publicly vetted about what and how much medications he is taking. Aside from his anger and arthritic pain issues, McCain has had reoccurring bouts of malignant melanoma, a deadly form of cancer that can spread quickly throughout the body.

These facts alone beg the question on how a President McCain, in the absence of his campaign staff handlers, would deal with a snap decision that had to be made "if the White House phone rang at 3 a.m."

McCain's POW experience is unique. His communist captors considered him the "crown prince" of U.S. POWs because his father, Adm. John McCain, was commander of all U.S. forces fighting in Vietnam. Because the communists believed he was from a "royal family" and would when finally released return to the United States to an important military or government job, they held him for two years in "solitary confinement."

SNIP

No U.S. POW had any communication with McCain or knew where he was being held during at least 8 to 12 months of McCain's first two years of captivity. He has either been unable or unwilling to account for the months he was missing from the POW system.

Within days of McCain's shoot down and after being told the identity of his famous father, the Vietnamese rushed him to Gai Lam military hospital (U.S. government documents), a medical facility normally unavailable to treat U.S. POWs. McCain was kept at Gai Lam for six weeks under the control of Soviet medical specialist anxious to test the use of their "mind and behavior modification" drugs on such an important prisoner.

McCain said the communists were so effective with their interrogation techniques that he broke on the fourth day after being captured and began cooperating. "Demands for military information were accompanied by threats to terminate my medical treatment if I did not cooperate. Eventually, I gave them my ship's name and squadron number, and confirmed that my target had been the power plant." Pages 193-194, Faith of My Fathers, by John McCain.

U.S. intelligence agents concluded in the early 1950s that Soviet intelligence (KGB) agents were experimenting on their prisoners with "mind control" techniques and behavior modification drugs


SNIP

The American public was first exposed to Soviet "brain perversion techniques" during Korean War when the communists launched a propaganda offensive featuring filmed and recorded testimony of captured U.S. servicemen confessing to war crimes including the use of germ warfare.

By the end of the Korean War, "70 percent of the 7,190 U.S. prisoners held in China had either made confessions or signed petitions calling for an end to the American war effort in Asia. Fifteen percent collaborated fully with the Chinese, and only 5 percent steadfastly resisted."

Military officials were especially alarmed when a significant number of the U.S. prisoners refused to recant their confessions as soon as they returned to the United States.

Beginning in 1960, KGB and Chinese agents directed the Vietnamese in establishing Vietnam's original interrogation guidelines for U.S. prisoners. They suggested interrogation techniques and issued specific intelligence requirements to be extracted during prisoner interrogations.

Official American position on POW confessions was that they were false and forced while privately expressing grave concern that the collaborations proved the communists had developed techniques that could "put a man's mind into a fog."

SNIP

In November 1991, Tracy Usry, chief investigator of the Minority Staff of the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee, testified before the Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, that the Soviets interrogated U.S. prisoners of war in Vietnam. McCain became outraged, interrupting Usry several times, arguing that "none of the returned U.S. prisoners of war released by Vietnam were ever interrogated by the Soviets."

Former KGB Maj. Gen. Oleg Kalugin testified during the hearings that the KGB did interrogate U.S. POWs in Vietnam. Kalugin stated that one of the POWs worked on by the KGB was a "high-ranking naval officer," who, according to Kalugin, agreed to work with the Soviets upon his repatriation to the United States and has frequently appeared on U.S. television.

Col. Bui Tin, a former Senior Colonel in the North Vietnamese Army, testified on the same day, but after Usry, that because of his high position in the Communist Party during the war he had the authority to "read all documents and secret telegrams from the politburo" pertaining to American prisoners of war. He said that not only did the Soviets interrogate some American prisoners of war, but that they treated the Americans very badly.

McCain stunned onlookers at the hearing when he moved to the witness table and physically embraced Col. Tin as if he was a long, lost brother.

In 1949 Dr. Andrew Salter authored Conditioned Reflex Therapy, a pioneering work in the field of psychoanalysis. Ten years later, as Richard Condon was writing The Manchurian Candidate, he asked Dr. Salter to help "design" the brainwashed character for the book and subsequent movie.

More than 40 years later, in 1992, during the C-SPAN broadcasts of the Senate Select Committee on POW/MIA Affairs, Dr. Salter watched the hearings from his New York City apartment. Salter became fascinated with McCain's overly aggressive and angry behavior toward witnesses, especially family members of men still missing in action. After a few hours he called a friend telling her, "the signs are all there, I'm afraid Senator John McCain has been brainwashed."

During the Senate Select hearings, McCain opposed all efforts by the POW/MIA families and activists to have the Select Committee expand its investigation to study how successful the Vietnamese, Soviet, Chinese and Cuban interrogation apparatuses were at exploiting American prisoners of war.

SNIP

It is incumbent upon McCain to prove to the American people that the 5 1/2 years he spent at the mercy of communist interrogators did not leave him with mental health issues that could hinder him in making snap decisions "if the White House phone rang at 3 a.m."

Is McCain taking any kind of pain or "nerve" medicines? If so, do the medicines cause emotional and physical reactions?

McCain was once treated for Posttraumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) which is said to get worse over time for former POWs, what is the status of his treatment?

Does McCain still harbor stress triggered suicidal tendencies?

Where was McCain and what was happening to him during the months he was missing from the POW camp?

McCain implies that he made only one propaganda broadcast for the communists, but Senate Foreign Relations Committee staffers say he made over 30. How many did he make and what did he get in return?

Why does McCain still deny that the Soviets were involved in the interrogation of U.S. POWs in Vietnam?

Does McCain's former interrogators, the communist Vietnamese, Russians, Chinese and Cubans have anything in their secret intelligence files about his behavior as a prisoner with which they could blackmail a President John McCain?




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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #32
35. Thanks for the article, it seems the vets over at U.S. Veteran Dispatch hate McCain.
My son's teacher told the class that McCain wants to become president so he "could bomb his captors".

There was clip on television the other day that had McCain gritting his teeth in anger when he was questioned about once being a possible running mate for Kerry. McCain irritably denied the thought ever happened.

He has a freakishly scary temper. (We have to repeat that over and over again) ;)
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 09:49 AM
Response to Reply #35
36. McCain may have some self-loathing, suicidal episodes, as well, which is even scarier.
In 1972, the Democrats had to replace the Vice Presidential nominee after it came out that he had received electroshock treatment for depression. McCain's experience appears to have been even more traumatic.

Fitness for the Presidency will surely become a major issue with McCain.
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
22. Copy this and send it to every repub you know...n/t
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democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 12:14 PM
Response to Original message
44. thanks for finding this
good one Just-plain-Kathy keep up the good work
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Just-plain-Kathy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #44
45. You can call me Kathy :)
Welcome to DU democracy1st! :hi:
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