Are we besieged by gay-baiting trolls here at DU?

[NinetySix]

I never respond to those threads, even to express my dismay, just as I would never respond to a thread which poses the question whether it is ever appropriate to use a racial epithet. The reason is that I'm simply out of my element, incapable of contributing anything positive or worthwhile to those discussions.

I'm not PC, that is, I think anyone should be allowed to express ANY point of view (for example, Holocaust deniers), because it is my opinion that, in the Marketplace of Ideas, the truth will ultimately prevail, and prohibiting ideas is undemocratic, Orwellian, and a step in the direction of enforced intellectual orthodoxy. Besides, there are definite social consequences to be suffered for making outrageous, offensive remarks.

Nevertheless, I wonder whether all the recent threads -- in which some inconsiderate DUer seems to make some flippant, overtly homophobic remark, only to be beset by (evidently) the same legion of "Gay Police," as one poster's avatar describes himself -- is evidence of an effort to infiltrate our virtual community in an effort to sow discord among us.

I realize this probably isn't an original thought, but I haven't been paying too careful attention until just lately, and I'd simply like to know what others think.

[ThomCat]

1. Besieged, no. But..

homophobia is common, even among progressives. There is a recent effort at zero-tollerance towards homophobia. It needs to be pointed out and challenged.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

2. There is a recent effort at zero-tolerance towards homophobia.

Really? It seems to have gotten a little lax.

[bicentennial_baby]

3. Inconsiderate?

You call scum like that inconsiderate?! How kind of you....I think the proper words are bigoted garbage...And no, we're not a legion, we're many of the GLBTQI DUers who's very identities get shat upon by others here on a nearly daily basis.

[krispos42]

11. GLBTQI?

Gay Lesbian Bisexual Transgender part I got, but what is the "Q" and the "I" for?

[JackBeck]

12. "Questioning" and "Intersexed".

[krispos42]

14. At the risk of sounding like a dumbass...

"Questioning and Intersexed?"

This is new to me.

[JackBeck]

16. Questioning: for those who haven't defined their sexuality.

Intersexed: a person who has both male and female genitalia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersexed

[krispos42]

21. Ah, light dawns in the swamp! :-)

Thank you

[NinetySix]

13. By inconsiderate I mean unintentionally offensive.

If you didn't know very much about the subculture of squolgors, having only heard or read a few very general things about them, and you one day happened to meet one, only to inadvertently mention fromts, it would certainly be an inconsiderate thing to have mentioned, and you would certainly have done so out of ignorance, never having meant to cause offense.

I don't mean to dismiss the outrage of those who have to cope with being marginalized, ridiculed, and patronized daily. I didn't use that term to indicate that it is a light matter. But what percentage of heterosexuals are socially engaged enough with the homosexual community to even register what is offensive to them? I'm not shrugging off your legitimate feelings of anger, even toward those who simply don't realize that what they're saying is provocative.

But what I wonder is, when we see threads that say "I'm not gay-bashing, but I think that X (some person we all despise in common) should be Y (violated in an outrageously immoral and violent act)," are these in fact ignorant DUers, or infiltrators?

[bicentennial_baby]

15. Infiltrators....or as they're more commonly known, trolls

[NinetySix]

17. I said 'besieged' before, and that may be overstating the matter

but given the (sudden?) outbreak of these kinds of threads focussed upon this particular topic, it does seem orchestrated to some extent, which is why I pose the question.

I remember before November '04, the trolls were out in force, and they rarely got over 150 or 200 posts before being tombstoned. But after that time, according to hearsay, there were those who claimed that by remaining innocuous, however inconsistent with their own obnoxious natures, they were accumulating post numbers, hoping to remain among us surreptitiously. That's why I call them "infiltrators."

[LostinVA]

24. You tell 'em bi-baby!

And, many of the "gay Duers" you mention aren't gay -- they are straight allies. And, many GBLT Duers don't have gay-themes avatars.

[bicentennial_baby]

31. THank you for that

I should have clarified further :)

[Quantess]

4. Not beseiged, just a pest here and there.

I'm a straight woman, and I find the recent flame-bait tactics incredibly boring, banal, and (lucky for me) easy to ignore.

[stillcool]

5. I have never...ever....read....

anything that cold, mean, and nasty on DU...and not only from the original poster.

[Zenlitened]

6. Not besieged. Annoyed, sure. Shocked at times, certainly. But they're so transparent...

... that 'besieged' is probably giving them too much credit.

All they accomplish ultimately, is to demonstrate everything that's wrong with so-called 'conservatism' in America today. No substance, no ideas, nothing to contribute to society. Just poison, just bile.

Ugh.


(edit spelling)

[GreenPartyVoter]

7. There are trolls of all kinds here. I feel the trick is to treat them

differently than the rw sites. Kill them with kindness and facts. And if that fails, ignore them. But I prefer not to play into their hands and go off in a tizzy that likely gets them 'excited'.

[walldude]

27. I prefer laughter and facts...

I can't really find many kind words for the opposition these days, so I just laugh at them..

[La Lioness Priyanka]

8. i think people are deliberately baiting. and then pointing fingers.

[MADem]

9. I have noticed several threads of late along those lines.

I don't know the answer to your question. It could be trolling, it could be baiting, or it could be the desire to pee highest on the tree.

A lot of times, rather than CONTRIBUTE to an existing thread, posters will want to "make their mark" by starting a brand-spanking-NEW thread, with their very own subject line and name AT THE TOP.

It's why we see so many duplicate threads in different areas of the board, all on the same damned subject, whenever a 'hot topic' comes to the fore.

I suppose the moderators could do some aggressive combining of threads, but they may not be so inclined to do all that sweeping-up work when this sort of nonsense takes hold. They've likely got better things to do...

[Taxloss]

10. "Siege" dignifies them.

"Occasionally inconvenienced" seems to be more accurate.

[CBGLuthier]

18. While it is true all opinions should be allowed to be expressed

It is even more true that those who own the medium have the right to set the rules.

In other words, let the homophobes get their own damn forum and have fun making childish jokes with each other.

And to more directly address your own question, NO, in in most cases these posts are from long timers who are just happen to be homophobes. One notable exception was however tombstoned about five minutes ago.

[NinetySix]

22. When I say there are social consequences to outrageous, offensive speech,

tombstoning is one of the things I have in mind. If someone likes to spew bigoted venom loudly, brashly, and unapologetically, there should be no legal consequence (which is why I don't support hate-speech laws, despite my inclination to). But if that person finds that the social consequence is being shunned in one way or another, there is no legitimate cause to complain.

Tombstoning a DUer for overtly hateful speech is a social consequence decided by social convention.

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LostinVA]

25. Per DU rules, not all opinions ARE to be expressed

The trolls break these rules all the time.

[hedgehog]

19. It's a relief to see your post.

I am very naive, and I was rather diappointed to think that other DU posters held those opinions!

[gollygee]

20. There certainly are homophobic Democrats

otherwise a blue state like my own wouldn't have approved an anti same-sex marriage bill.

What percentage of the homophobic posters on DU are trolls, I have no idea.

[LostinVA]

23. Yes, and a perfect example is the just deleted thread in GD

Where a poster who has been quite homophobic since November flamed out, but not before calling many GBLT DUers disgusting names.

And, the "Gay Police" avatar started BECAUSE of the posters you're talking about. Gay DUers were called "gay police" in a very nasty way because they took umbrage with a quite homophobic OP.

However, never, ever think that all phobes on here are trolls. I wish they were, but they aren't.

[NinetySix]

32. I guess some are economically progressive, socially liberal, and still

have difficulty relating to certain groups. I recall my father describing growing up in the Jim Crow South, and wondering what all that segregation business was about; never viscerally outraged by it, just bemused by the unquestioned, established order of things. Having grown up in that environment, my father, who is not quite as far to the left as I am, has admitted that he still has a tiny visceral reaction seeing a "mixed couple" in public, despite having no rational opposition to interracial relationships.

It's likely an analogous situation with sexual orientation. Perhaps some don't recognize their internal intolerant feelings despite their external tolerant opinions.

[LostinVA]

33. Oh no, the stuff posted went far, far beyond that

It was out-and-out hate speech, worthy of the Klan.

And, the poster is bragging about it on another site. Trust me, he is aware of what he is. And quite proud of it.

[NinetySix]

37. Ugly. Well, thinning the herd is not always a bad thing.

Perhaps there are some people here who belong elsewhere (like that poster's other site), but are simply lost. Let them go.

The only problem I've ever run upon here at DU is being too enthusiastic at the tombstoning of obvious trolls. A mod warning helps curb the enthusiasm....

[Name removed]

45. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Jax]

44. That thread was repulsive

those comments....I felt like I needed an acetone bath after reading that homophobic spew.

[Bluebear]

26. If only they were simply trolls. nt

[LostinVA]

34. Agreed n/t

[LeftyMom]

28. Sadly, I suspect most of the homophobes think they are progressives.

I don't think allowing them to persist in that delusion does them or anybody else any favors. This is not the party for bigots.

[sniffa]

29. gay poLice reporting for duty

:patriot:

[NinetySix]

36. When I mentioned the "Gay Police" avatar

it was yours I was thinking of, sniffa! I just couldn't remember your name.

I didn't realize how many shared that avatar -- I must have seen half a dozen in response to this thread alone!

I recall a discussion on tolerance a couple of years ago in which I suggested that heteros who supported gay-rights should have a symbol of their own. I suppose all gay and gay-tolerant people could just use the rainbow flag, but since that could cause some confusion, I suggested a seventh, white horizontal stripe in the middle. Someone thought that was a good idea and indicated they'd get right on it, but I never saw anything come out of that exchange.

[LostinVA]

40. The PFLAG logo could be used on here

I think Haruka posted it a few weeks ago:

http://www.seagla.org/images/pflag_sm%20(1).gif

[quinnox]

30. Not that I've noticed

I mean there has been some very silly threads like "do you look at the other men in the shower" (how that topic lasted as long as it did before being locked is beyond me) but haven't seen any thing of note besides that.

[Sammy Pepys]

35. Is something going on?

Hadn't noticed anything.

[maxsolomon]

38. why are we constantly besieged by identity politics at DU?

there's a war on & the planet is going to boil our species alive.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

39. Civil rights are human rights.

It must be nice to have the privilege to call them mere "identity politics."

[Starbucks Anarchist]

41. Are you having an "identity crisis"?

:sarcasm: :hi:

[maxsolomon]

48. yes it is nice

what a stereotypical identity politics shot across the bow!

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[maxsolomon]

49. so civil

persuade me to care.

[Name removed]

42. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[sniffa]

47. Locking

pLease don't start a new.. oh forget it.

[LaurenG]

50. Locking

this is becoming a continuation of previously locked threads.