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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:26 PM
Original message
Should we buy Euros? Now?
First shops in Amsterdam stop taking the dollar, now a software company I work with has switched to Euros. No dollars, thank you. WTF???
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
1. Hey, what kind of "shops" were you in in Amsterdam?
:smoke::smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke: :smoke:
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Uhhhh.... I forget.......
All I remember was Euros and purtty flowers...

:smoke::smoke::smoke::smoke::smoke:
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MercutioATC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. We should have bought Euros 18 months ago.
I actually considered it, and got lazy and never did it....damn, the profits I missed.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I think there's still some profit to be made --
or at least you won't LOSE as much as you will with the dollar.
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Selatius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. You can invest your money in European bonds if you want to protect your money.
If the Euro bond pays you back at a coupon rate of 5 percent in Europe, you are really getting 7.5 or 7.6 percent when you convert it back into US Dollars given current exchange rates.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
3. I would if I knew
how the hell to do it. Do you?

Your earlier post absolutely stunned me. And I imagine that's happening a lot these days.


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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. We are probably a tad late with that. The best time
would have been b/4 the dollar took this nose dive. However, whose to say it won't get worse than it is now. Maybe euros wouldn't be a bad investment, just not as lucrative as a yr ago.
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Rick Myers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. I think at this point...
Anything is a life preserver in an ocean of crap!!!

WE are SO screwed!!!
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:38 PM
Response to Original message
8. yes, before the currency controls come in
if you can afford it, not as an investment, but as a safety net

I kick myself for NOT having had the moolah to do that way back when

But I am not shitting you about currency controls

They are sadly a classic of failing economies where the currency crashes, and yes... it can (it will) happen here
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southerncrone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. With the FED moving in to pull up the reins
on our economy, it seems possible that we could have currency controls. I think investing in almost anything besides our $ is advisable, especially food & tangibles. I fear we are headed for a complete collapse.

Energy prices have effected everything indirectly. The housing crisis is partially a result of the increase in the cost of heating fuels & gasoline. Shows how closely people were living on the edge.
Americans have a NEGATIVE savings rate. Outsourcing overseas & layoffs just pushed things over the top. The US future does NOT look bright at this point.

But certain entities just keep on raping us financially. All in the name of terrorism!
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 12:39 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. Could you give me a quick
explanation on what "currency controls" means? Thanks.
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. I'll give you a practical example
Edited on Thu Apr-03-08 01:15 AM by nadinbrzezinski
that is when the government, in this case Mexico, imposes controls on how much foreign currency you can trade in.

For example, back in the day, when the Mexican Peso crashed (1980s) People could not buy more than 200 dollars a month, legally that is.

It led to a wonderful black market, and what can I say? What form could it take in the US? I suspect a similar way. By law you will not be able to LEGALLY trade in Euros beyond a certain amount per moth, best case... or not at all.

Now that does not mean you cannot go to the bank and sell all your dollars (n the case of Mexico) or in this case Euros... but buy... not if they can help it.

And I usually like to give real examples since the theory is a little dry.

And yes, been there done that. (And the black market of the Dollar was all the way to 300% its official value, that I knew off. I am sure it got higher)

Hope this helps
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #15
28. It does help, thanks ! nt
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TransitJohn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-02-08 11:39 PM
Response to Original message
9. Shoulda bought Euros like 2 years ago.
To sell 'em now. But you know what they say about hindsight.
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angstlessk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:07 AM
Response to Original message
13. Taj Majhal does not take yankees dollars either...by the time they get to the bank
the value has fallen.,.sorta like pre war Germany...scary stuff!
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:13 AM
Response to Original message
14. I've wondered about that --- an acquaintances told me she's traveling home to
Russia and bought some Euros here for $1.18 -- she said it's cheaper here than buying later.

What would you do with the Euros . . . safety deposit box?

And, btw, original FEMA laws --- as I recall it -- clamped requirements on your savings and
even safety deposit boxes as to what amounts you could take out and when if they had an emergency --- !!!


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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:17 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Yep those are part of currency controls as well
in the case of mexico, you could only take out the equivalent of I think 200 dollars back in the day... in a week.

Now I can function on 200 dollars, but if they do that... it will be almost impossible for the economy to function... given it depends on consumption unless we have a real crash, I don't foresee them trying that one... now if we have a crash... all bets are off
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1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
17. no. the rule is "buy low, sell high" not vice versa...
you missed that chance. stay away from gold too.

you'll just have to ride this one out like the rest of us...
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:24 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. The normal rules are gone
the US has not gone through such a crisis as this one, since oh... 1929 (IMF said such TODAY)

So you have to start thinking currency controls and other SURVIVAL mechanisms. You are not longer thinking investment potential

And yes, THIS CASSANDRA unfortunately has been correct so far
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1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. heh...
then go for it.

if you think euros or gold are a great investment at this time then pull the trigger.

i wouldn't. but do what you think is the smart thing to do...

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:35 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. This is not investment, that is what I am saying
this is survival.

Not unlike my dad's family digging a hole in the backyard and hiding the family gold in oh August of 1939, if you get my drift

This is not to make a profit, whatsoever

Read what the IMF said today. this is the WORST ECONOMIC CRISIS since 1929, per IMF.

So you have to change your way of thinking,

As to going for it, I've got gold, and if I COULD AFFORD TO, I'd go in the morning to get some euros to HOARD, not invest, see what I am saying?

Why? I fully expect currency controls before this is over
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1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. ok...
but if what you say is correct, any "piece of paper" or "shiny rock" you possess will not be worth any more than its caloric value when eaten.

i don't think you understand the word "survival" as you seem to be stating it.

if i thought like you i would be "investing" in guns, ammo, water, seeds, canned goods and good books.

we have different ideas about the future. and different "investment" goals. i live on a farm in the middle of nowhere.

good luck with your pieces of paper and shiny rocks...

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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Them shinny rocks bought people their lives
back in the day... not that most Americans understand this... at least the current generation. Ask your Depression era relatives, if they are still alive...

And them dollars did as well, especially after the war when it became the currency of trade, where the Euro is going right now

I might add tobacco to the mix, which was traded after the war... and American Chocolate

Oh and during the depression many people traded them shiny baubles for food. Again ask those who were there, as few as they remain

Given what the IMF said today... I'd take that seriously

And you are right, some of us have seen this coming for a while... and I have said for a while that current conditions are NOT unlike those of 1929...
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1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 02:17 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. i am not here to fight with you my friend...
you may be right. i hope that you are wrong. whatever the outcome, i wish you the best.

in the moment, no one can really know what the future might bring...
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Laurier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
22. SSDD
As always, you pays yer money and you takes yer chances.

Seriously, though, if you are not independently market-savvy but you trust the advisors that you've hired, you're probably best off to listen to your advisors and follow their advice. If you are independently market-savvy, well, you don't need anyone to tell you to do your own assessments and take your own advice. If you're somewhere in the middle, you're probably best to consider your options and do what you think is right for you, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to seriously consider, and give significant weight to, the advice of the professionals whom you've consulted.



Yeah, it's a crap shoot in the end, but it works (most of the time).
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lligrd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 02:55 AM
Response to Original message
25. Maybe Cheney Will Sell Us Some Of His
Never a good sign when your acting President invests in foreign currency. I wonder why nobody seems to have noticed.
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DFW Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 03:02 AM
Response to Original message
26. Coming to you live and in color from Euro-land here
The Euro may still appreciate somewhat against the dollar, but this is one horse
who has pretty much left the barn. The time to buy Euros was back when W took
office, before the deficits started piling up just as they always do when Republicans
are in office, and before the resource-draining Iraq invasion. The Euro started out
(as sole currency, anyway) at $1.19 and quickly sank to 82¢. That didn't last long.
Today the euro costs over $1.56, and my take-home pay has lost about 60% of its
purchasing power since Cheneybush has been wrecking (running?) things. Good thing
I paid off the house and the cars in anticipation beforehand. My wife is German,
is paid in euros, so she is immune. She is a social worker, so she gets paid crap,
but at least it's not 40% of the crap it was in 2001.

Buying euros now is an expensive proposition. If you want to become a trader/speculator,
and frazzle your nerves by sitting in front of a computer screen all day, watching and
covering your position, fine. There are people who do that with stocks, commodities,
and foreign currencies. When something starts to go wrong, they cover their positions
and get out in seconds. But just to buy a couple of thousand euros and put them in
your safety-deposit box seems like too little, too late. Gold shot through $1000 an
ounce just two weeks ago. Then, some of the big position-holders started to have some
fun, and the price dropped 10% by the end of that week. As of this writing, it just crept
back over the $900 mark. The time to buy gold was back in January, 2001, before Clinton
left office. It touched $252 an ounce then. Gold is only an indication of how secure
people feel about things, the dollar included. It's not like oil or food. You can't eat it,
you can't heat your home with it, you can't live in it, and it pays no interest. It just
sits there, and you had better hope that in the future, someone wants it more than you
do, or all you have is a lump of metal. Of course, it has been used as money for thousands
of years, so it can't be ignored altogether, but when its price rises dramatically, it's
not because someone suddenly found out it can cure cancer. It's because people lose
confidence in the currency it is quoted in. Gold has risen recently in euros as well, but
nowhere nearly as dramatically.

For the moment, gold appears to have peaked at $1000, and has been trading between $880
and $940, currently at $901. From $252 to $900 is nearly quardupling. For that to happen
again, the gold price would have to go over $3000. Not likely. The euro, going from 82¢
to $1.56 represents a 90% increase in 7 years. For that to happen again, the euro would
have to go to nearly $3. The Central banks won't let it happen, as this would mean that
no country in the world outside of the dollar zone could sell their goods in the USA,
and that practically no Americans could afford to travel abroad. Taxi drivers in Paris
could afford to stay at the Hyatt-Regency anywhere in America, and a mid-level executive
from Düsseldorf could buy his kid Rhode Island for Christmas (OK, not quite, but you get
my drift). What I'm saying is that things have already gotten out of hand on the currency
end, and the time to act was when we all speculated about this happening before it did.
As I practically live here, I actually did do this (not enough), and the $100,000 I changed
into DM in 2001 (and then into Euros when the changeover came in January 2002) is long gone.
You can't think of it as a $100,000 investment that is now worth $190,000. It bought me so
many euros, and I spent them over the years as euros. They didn't appreciate one bit, as I
never took a profit converting them back into dollars. The euros I needed to live on just
ended up not costing me MORE, that's all.

Now I just suffer along with everyone else, and hope the nightmare has an end. If McCain
gets in, and the insanity of Bush economics is continued, then I may throw in the towel and
buy a few more euros than I need at these insane levels, but I still don't feel it is
justified. The difference in purchasing power is significant, and I'll be returning home
at some point, whether because they get me a desk job (ugh) Stateside, or because I get
too old to do what I do any more (I sometimes wonder if I didn't reach that point ten
years ago!). My wife is dead set against moving to America, and as long as I can manage
to do what I'm doing, I will. But buying something as an investment AFTER it has gone up
exponentially is risky business. It could still be the right decision, but the chances
your investment will do well AFTER such a run-up are far smaller than your chances were
before it happened.

As for currency controls, they won't work. A black market will appear immediately, and
the true market price of anything will prevail. People will always find a way to get
around them. As it is, there is a requirement to report any transaction or movement
of currency over $10,000. It's legal to do ANY amount in cash, you just have to report
it. There have been Russians traveling to America to buy Russian collectibles to bring
home. They sometimes fly to American with briefcases full of cash, declare them at U.S.
Customs (who stare bug-eyed at the sight of a $1.2 million in a briefcase), and meet
their armed guards at the airport. They then drive off to the auction, or whatever it
is, pay with their cash, giving their passports, and doing everything by the book. They
don't care. These guys are usually Russian oil oligarchs, and to them $1.2 million is
about ten minutes' worth of net earnings. In France, after 1968, when currency controls
were imposed, they caught the occasional smuggler taking money out to Belgium or Switzerland,
but 99% of the cash that was intended to leave did indeed leave. In 1981, when the Socialists
took over France, they knew people would lose confidence. Indeed, they did, and the price
of gold within France rose to far beyond the international level. Strict currency controls
were imposed, and it was illegal to carry more than $200 (!!) in cash out of France unless,
as a foreigner entering, you had delcared it coming in. Anything over that (if you were
French) had to be paid by credit card. The predictable happened. Grandmothers were caught
at Paris train stations heading for Brussels or Frankfurt with knitting bags full of cash,
and French customs made sure that it hit the papers, but 99% of what people wanted to get
out of the country still got out. They soon abandoned that ridiculous limit--not because
they got more lenient, but because they realized it wasn't working.

Rather than impose currency controls, repairing confidence in your economy is the better
solution. Free movement of capital means that people from other countries will have no fear
investing in your country. No one in their right mind will invest in a country where they
fear that they will never be able to get their investment out.
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sinkingfeeling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-03-08 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
27. Should have bought Euros about 2002.
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