Looking for POW info on Mccain...

[gorfle]

Somewhere on here a bit back I remember reading an article that called into question McCain's "illustrious" POW experience - something to the effect that he was complicit in helping out his captors and made big threats when he left that it better not ever leak what he did.

Does anyone have a link?

[hedgehog]

1. Why?

We have the Iraq war, stopping a war with Iran, jobs, mortgages, college costs, health care, pensions, schools, infrastructure, global climate change, the energy crisis etc etc to talk about. We don't need to discuss what John McCain may or may not have said under torture during a meaningless war 30 years ago.

[gorfle]

11. Because

Because my Mom hangs here hat on "He's a war hero".

[whistle]

2. No, but that would be very interesting...almost like a Manchurian Candidate

...scenario :yoiks:

[Hugabear]

3. Do not go there

It was despicable when the rethugs tried to slander Kerry's Vietnam service, and we should be better than that. Unless you have irrefutable, undeniable PROOF that McCain was somehow "complicit" - and not just a bunch of hearsay, rumors, or innuendo, attacking someone who spent years in a POW camp is only going to hurt us in a bad way.

[Liberal Gramma]

10. Agreed

And it sounds too much like a Rove plant to take it seriously. This is the guy that bugged his own office and accused the opposition of doing it. If the Dems take up this cry, it'll be a repeat of the Dan Rather/Bush Natl Guard experience and will only hurt us. Do not take any candy from Rove, it's certain to be poison.

[acmavm]

13. McCain is a liar, he collaborated with the North Vietnamese,

He spilled his guts for medical care, he refuses to let MIA families have access to info that they want from POW debriefings, many Viet Nam vets who were also held captive state McCain was NEVER tortured, they are also pictures of him in clothing during cold weather that other captives were never allowed to have.

He got 28 FUCKING MEDALS for his flying service but he wrecked five fucking jets. Plainly stated, he was a LOUSY PILOT. An organization of Navy vets wanted his medals taken away from him.

Yeah, this guy is comparable to Kerry, all right. :sarcasm:

[cali]

evidence that he wasn't tortured? I've read the opposite.

[cali]

15. evidence that he wasn't tortured? I've read the opposite.

[acmavm]

16. Go read the articles. His own countrymen that have been proven

to have been tortured say he's lying. Countrymen who were there at the same time, and who bore the scars from their ordeal. What would you say if you'd collaborated with the enemy but ended up leaving the prison ten pounds heavier than when you went in? These articles are from ex-military, not some shakey shit that someone dreamt up to make the old lying bastard look bad.

This guy is a fraud through and through.

[devilgrrl]

18. I'll go there - what is so heroic about being shot down by the Viet Cong?

That military powerhouse that they were. :sarcasm:

:popcorn:

Yes, the shit Kerry had to put up with was stupid - but too bad - people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

[TooBigaTent]

4. I can't directly help you, but to those who will say that we should not attack

everything about McInsane, including his "heroic" war record, I say that we cannot afford to take anything off the table.

The pukes and the media will use everything at their disposal, including outright lies, to go after HC or BO. To think that we should appeal to the rationality and logic of the public and that strategy will lead to victory is naive at best and suicidal in reality.

Taking the high road is a one-way MapQuest to defeat.

[brandon47]

5. John McCain

is an american hero, and these sorts of attacks of shameful.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

7. He's a flip-flopper.

Worse than Kerry. Whacha think of that?

[brandon47]

8. That's kind of irrelevant

Flip flopping is a fair attack, attacking an American hero on the basis shown above is shameful to the highest degree.

[PerpetuallyDazed]

9. I agree.

:hi:

[PerpetuallyDazed]

6. Not sure of the validity of this...

http://www.vietnamveteransagainstjohnmccain.com/

Looks very much like the Kerry Swiftboaters. Your call. Claims to have copies of "official government documents."

McCain talks about his experiences with torture here:

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/111305Y.shtml

"I was once physically coerced to provide my enemies with the names of the members of my flight squadron, information that had little if any value to my enemies as actionable intelligence. But I did not refuse, or repeat my insistence that I was required under the Geneva Conventions to provide my captors only with my name, rank and serial number. Instead, I gave them the names of the Green Bay Packers' offensive line, knowing that providing them false information was sufficient to suspend the abuse..."

And the best part:

"Those who argue the necessity of some abuses raise an important dilemma as their most compelling rationale: the ticking-time-bomb scenario. What do we do if we capture a terrorist who we have sound reasons to believe possesses specific knowledge of an imminent terrorist attack?

In such an urgent and rare instance, an interrogator might well try extreme measures to extract information that could save lives. Should he do so, and thereby save an American city or prevent another 9/11, authorities and the public would surely take this into account when judging his actions and recognize the extremely dire situation which he confronted. But I don't believe this scenario requires us to write into law an exception to our treaty and moral obligations that would permit cruel, inhumane and degrading treatment. To carve out legal exemptions to this basic principle of human rights risks opening the door to abuse as a matter of course, rather than a standard violated truly in extremis. It is far better to embrace a standard that might be violated in extraordinary circumstances than to lower our standards to accommodate a remote contingency, confusing personnel in the field and sending precisely the wrong message abroad about America's purposes and practices."

In this case, it should be easier to use his own words against him.

[acmavm]

12. Here ya go.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=3091266

[cali]

14. oh for fuck's sake. take your "question" and shove it up

your rear. This is so out of bounds disgusting. He was horribly tortured and he's admitted that he signed "confessions" under duress. I find people that only object to torture when we're the ones doing it just as disgusting as those who only sanction it when we're doing it.

[gorfle]

17. Thanks,

That's just what my Mom said, and why she's voting for him - because he's a "decorated war hero".

If that's not true, wouldn't you want to know and use that to persuade everyone who's voting for him "Because of his experience"?