Why do I fan the flames? Or more aptly titled, my last post on this subject for awhile

[belladonna]

Somebody asked me last night why I was "fanning it", referring to the fact that I just won't stop getting pissed off and outraged about the homophobic stuff posted on DU lately. I thought about this late last night and here is my final post on this subject, and on DU for awhile. No, I'm not leaving DU, so "don't let the door hit you on the ass on your way out" replies are useless and will be ignored.

I classify myself as a straight woman, albeit slightly "bent" but, for the most part, I am a straight white woman who, if I wish to do so, can haul my fiance down to the courthouse next week and get married. I won't, but I have that choice. It's there for me and I've never NOT had that right. My oldest daughter, when she turned 18, thought it would be a wonderful idea to marry her high school sweetheart and, despite my objections that they were too young, went and exercised that right. She was divorced a little over a year later but, if she finds another guy that tickles her fancy, she can go get married anytime her little heart desires. She can also have a child and raise it however she sees fit, whether it's as a single mom or as a married woman. She is seriously troubled and should not be able to make these decisions, but she CAN.

My daughter, who is in the other room as I type this, will be eighteen in June. She's gay. If she ever wants to get married, she has to move to another state and STAY there. If she wants to have a child and raise it with her partner, some nosy busybody somewhere along the way will scream "BUT THEY'RE GAY!!! TAKE THAT CHILD AWAY NOW!" If she cannot conceive a child of her own, she will not be able to adopt, although she absolutely adores kids and would make a wonderful mother to any child. Even right now, at her young age, she is wise beyond her years and, at times, I trust HER judgement over my own. None of that matters, because she figured out one day that it was for real, she really was attracted to girls and that wasn't going to change. It's sad, because as happy as I was when she came out to me, because I think it's MUCH better for her to come out now, then after years of trying to deny it, she faces so damn many problems that my other children will never have to face. Just because she happens to like girls.

So yeah, I will fan the flames whenever I see homophobia posted on DU. I will post about my outrage and, if I have to, I will eat granite in the process of calling out every single asshole that posts on a LIBERAL, PROGRESSIVE website and pretends to be a liberal, yet somehow tries to rationalize hate and intolerance towards anyone who isn't like them in their sexual orientation.

I've heard every argument in the book. We'll lose the election if "those gays" don't stop jumping up and down over their treatment as second class citizens. We must excuse homophobia because gays scare people and go around hitting on us poor straight people. C'mon guys, can't you just WAIT a few more years to be treated like the rest of us? It's for the greater cause. BULLSHIT! To be perfectly honest, any candidate I vote for better damn well be able to look my daughter or others like her in the eye and PROMISE them that they will fight for their rights. The greater cause to me is EQUALITY. I'm not going to sit here in my comfortable straight life and say, " Oh well, I got mine and isn't it a shame that my kid doesn't. Maybe in another 10 years or so, she'll get treated like a human being"

Flame away, I doubt I'll be answering, but have at it.

[JackBeck]

1. K&R

[myrna minx]

2. K&R, sister.

:toast:

[pnwmom]

3. I haven't seen a lot of hate and intolerance here,

but I do see some disagreement on the best methods of reaching our common goals. I happen to think we should be concentrating on over-turning the Federal defense of marriage act, and in pushing for civil unions -- with the same legal rights as marriage -- at the state level. I think the organized opposition to civil unions is much weaker than it is toward gay marriage and that it would be better to get the legal rights taken care of ASAP, rather than hold out for the word "marriage."

As far as your daughter is concerned, adoption is an option in a number of states, including Washington and New Jersey (just happen to be ones I know about). If that was something she wanted to do, it would be worth moving, IMO.

[Mandate My Ass]

4. I'll do this for you...

:blush:

[itsmesgd]

6. I agree with you on this, re: common goals

When it comes to several issues, I think that we disagree on the means to the same ends more than we disagree on the desired ends. I see this in everything from a presidential candidate to glbt issues. I hope that everyone will remember that we mostly agree on the same ends, but we all have slightly different ideas on how to get there. I think that some disagreement is healthy, but we need to remain civil to those that have different views than we do on each and every issue.

[bicentennial_baby]

7. Wow, you should get your eyes checked

if you haven't seen any of it...But, assuming you're straight, I suppose that I shouldn't be surprised.

[seabeyond]

11. i havent been looking hard for hatefilled bigoted posts on gays

that is for sure. but i have seen a handful of threads talking about the homophobia at du. i have wondered on these threads if merely not being in step with the whole makes a person homophobic.

i want gays to have the same right as i, being married. i am not opposed to civil union and having my "marriage" a civil union seeing how i didnt go to a church and giving the assholes making a to do about this the word marriage. i do not need or even want the word if we discriminate agaisnt people. if that will bring the same rights to gays, i am not going to fight it for a word

i know many gays do not like that idea. and i wonder if because i dont agree, that makes me homophobic.

i know with the outrage of the snicker commercial, many gays thought it was homophobic commercial, attack on gays. i saw it the opposite. but i heard the comments that if one didnt agree it was an attack on gays they are homophobic. i am not. i just did not see the commercial the same as those advocating it is an attack on the gay community.

if there is homphobia on this site, shame on them. i havent seen it. i am not looking for it. but i do wonder with all the threads recently stating this board is so bad with homophobia

[La Lioness Priyanka]

16. sometimes you dont see things because it doesnt affect your life.

[LeftyMom]

28. You're not looking very hard then.

In the last 24 hours we've had:

A former mod making homophobic comments

A user justifying admitted homophobia based on his history of sexual abuse

Said homophobe still having an account when in the past Skinner has said that homophobia will result in loss of posting privileges

Another DUer attempting to justify transphobia, but not saying why he feels it's acceptable

A troll using some really really vile homophobic insults with a very slow mod response

Threads questioning non-response to homophobic posts deleted while those posts that cause the problem remain

Completely serious people using the phrase "gay lifestyle

Obvious homophobic trolls running rampant for months before somebody finally tombstones them

Probably a lot of other crap I'm forgetting. You get the idea.

[unpossibles]

5. fan away, sister.

This is about equal rights for all. Period. We live in God-Bless-America and it's the damn 21st Century. There is no excuse for not having equal rights here, and in my opinion, this goes way beyond marriage rights.

I too am a little bent and married, but my wife and I have many very close friends who are all over the spectrum that is human sexuality, and damn it, I find I have very little patience for homophobia, just as I don't have room for racism or sexism in my life.

To those out there who say, "but I find it gross!" or "I'm afraid of men looking at my tiny wiener in the shower!" or whatever. Fine. Find it gross. Be afraid. Who cares; it's your right to be a bigot. But there's no reason to spread hatred or ignorance to the rest of the thinking world, or force everyone to live some uptight, busybody puritan bullshit lifestyle that you enjoy. Get over it.

And look at it this way: 50 years ago (or today in some areas), many people thought black people were gross, or that "inter-racial" couples should not marry. It was normal to think that way, and it was wrong.

[seabeyond]

14. are posters on du really saying, i find it gross, or, "I'm afraid of men looking at my tiny wiener

are posters really saying this on du?

[dogday]

17. I am a woman and I don't want to see no tiny wiener either....

:rofl:

[unpossibles]

19. not a lot, but I have seen some very similar answers

I wish it were otherwise. Who knows. I don't think it is the predominant viewpoint, but the same freedom that allows someone to spout nonsense allows me to call them out on it when it happens.

[seabeyond]

23. call them out. i dont know how many threads on talking about the "problem"

of homophobia on du. if it is the odd man out here and there, i see it more as what happens on a public board. i have heard the most hatefilled comments on kids. who would of thunk that kids were so hated? not me. but they are on here. i certainly dont see all of du as a kidophobic environment. i tend to see the handful that jump on kid threads and parent threads as disruptors enjoyng spewing because they are cowards and can say whatever on the net with little repercussion. i certainly dont take it personally.

but to imply that is the whole of du when consistantly i watch du supportive of gay rights and lifestyles i think is bad too.

i saw a poster below stating some one ONE said they were homophobic. so he/she is honest and says it like it is. how painful is that? it isnt about the gay. it is all about the sadness of this person that can have that prejudice of another thru ignorance. not who we are as a board, nor the gay community, but one person being honest. to say it i dont think should readily be rejected and flame all participants on du, but rather, maybe help the person to talk enough about the subject to grow as a person, ... i dont know

anyway

[unpossibles]

25. good point.

I guess it is just an issue that bothers me quite a bit, and is more that the problem is deeply embedded in our society more than specifically here at DU.

:)

[seabeyond]

27. i think this is the reason i finally came on one of these threads. a nation of battle

we have all become so comfortable in battle since the republicans jacked it up ten years ago and especially with bushco... i have family members that are gay. i stood up for their rights beyond their own parents because of party lines. a handful of years ago i swear there was less hate and battle with gays than there is today and it should be the other way around. i see on this board a desire for an equality of all... yet still it is ignored for the battle. so often we want it to be in battle and i dont see the need nor the producitveness of that attitude. wont give us our desired result

i do have qualms that if a person doesnt go along with the means to an end of a group here on du then they are attacked and told they are anti,... or some other comment. instead of uniting in a desire, maybe differing on a means.

[Solly Mack]

8. K&R

[Smarmie Doofus]

9. No flame from me. But I can't agree with your premise...

>>I've heard every argument in the book. We'll lose the election if "those gays" don't stop jumping up and down over their treatment as second class citizens. We must excuse homophobia because gays scare people and go around hitting on us poor straight people. C'mon guys, can't you just WAIT a few more years to be treated like the rest of us? It's for the greater cause. BULLSHIT! To be perfectly honest, any candidate I vote for better damn well be able to look my daughter or others like her in the eye and PROMISE them that they will fight for their rights. The greater cause to me is EQUALITY.>>>

... in it's entirety. Sometimes one has to prioritize. People who agreed with Ralph Nader on many issues in 2000( more than they agreed with Gore) *prioritized* and decided to vote for Gore. ( The fact that the election was stolen doesn't mitigate this fact). They acted intelligently, imo. The hard-core ( some might say hard headed) lefties who voted for Nader. They acted emotionally.

Who's judgment was better? I don't see that the circumstances here are much different.

I'm gay. No one wants to undermine and expose homophobic sentiment and it's consequences more than I.

But sometimes life is uncomfortably complex. The prospect that the DEM party will remain a minority party and perpetually out of power has to be considered also.

[quinnox]

10. Here is a flame

Stop making a mountain over a molehill!! DU is not homophobic at all and you are making DU appear as something it is not.

I'm hoping you and any one who agrees with you can give it a rest.

[cboy4]

12. No deal.

What else?

[bicentennial_baby]

20. There's an acute difference between DU as a whole and specific people on DU

I could name several, were it not against the rules...But I'm glad you can be so dismissive...

[helderheid]

13. No flames. You rock.

[cboy4]

15. When someone says, as they said last night:

"I am an open homophobe. I do my best, that's all I can do. If you think I'm disgusting, I can handle it. I doubt I'll lose much sleep,"......... that's enough to set me off!!

And it wasn't simply the bigoted comment that set me off.

It was the DUers who came running to this person's rescue to defend this person.....as though this person had to right to hate speak at DU.

DU should be an oasis from bigotry and racism and hate.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1324374&mesg_id=1324374

edit...typo

[mnhtnbb]

18. No flaming from me. I have two boys and the oldest is gay. He came out at 16--5 years ago.

As I've said, why shouldn't both my sons be able to marry the loves of their life, should they be so lucky as to find that person? It wouldn't affect my marriage in the slightest.

[myrna minx]

21. You're a great Mom, mnhtnbb.

:hug:

[mnhtnbb]

26. Thanks for the hug--always appreciated.

[Mr. Ected]

22. Wow. That Was Poignant.

Unfortunately, you will never be able to convince all the people, all the time, of your premise. Not in the real world, at least. There will always be bigots and the misinformed and haters and zealots. Even if the Supreme Court paved the way for gays to marry, there would be a movement afoot immediately to replace the Justices with ones who would overturn the decision. The Republicans would turn all elections into one issue elections, and with their uncanny ability at smear, would eventually prevail.

Although I'm new here, and I realize that DU is your private sanctuary, to insulate yourself from those bigots and hatemongers, it is inevitable that pretenders will infiltrate your hallowed ground, and utter their messages which will drive you into a frenzy. Of course, it is your right and your duty to call them out on it.

But you owe it to your daughter to maintain decency and integrity, even when dealing with the scum of the Earth. Remember, you don't have to persuade people of a like mind to subscribe to your beliefs. You do, however, need to conduct yourself with honor in order to be an emissary for change amongst those who do NOT subscribe to your ideology at the moment.

Our nation, IMO, is a nation in flux. The liberal ideas of the 60's and 70's have been ridiculed relentlessly for over 20 years now. Many Americans have been brainwashed into hating liberals and liberalism, and our ideology has become marginalized in the mainstream. But I believe a sea change is in front of us, and George Bush's ineptness and the Republicans' utter disregard for truth and honesty have only expedited the process.

Hang in there. Your troops are gathering, and the prospects look better ever day.

[k_jerome]

24. jeezum crow. wake up people. nt.

[LaurenG]

29. Locking

Please do not start a new topic in order to continue a flame war from another discussion thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detai...

Thank you

Ohioblues

DU moderator