Oldest Human Remains in N.America Found: Blow to Current Theories

[babylonsister]

Human Traces Found to Be Oldest in N. America
Remnants Provide New Clues in Debate Over Where and When Continent's First Inhabitants Lived


By Mary Kate Cannistra - The Washington Post

By Marc Kaufman
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, April 4, 2008; Page A02


Scientists have found and dated the oldest human remnants ever uncovered in the Americas -- a discovery that places people genetically similar to Native Americans in Oregon more than 14,000 years ago and 1,000 years earlier than previous estimates.

Using radiocarbon dating and DNA analysis, an international team concluded that fossilized feces found five feet below the surface of an arid cave are significantly older than any previous human remains unearthed in the Americas.

The samples were discovered near a crude dart or spear tip chiseled from obsidian, as well as bones of horses and camels that were then common in the region. The researchers described their finding as a "smoking gun" in the long-running debate over when and where humans first inhabited the New World.

"What's so exciting here is that we have cells from real people, their DNA, rather than samples of their work or technologies," said Dennis Jenkins of the University of Oregon, who oversaw the dig. "And we have them on the Oregon landscape 1,000 years before what used to be the earliest samples of human remains in the Americas."

The discovery, published yesterday in the online edition of the journal Science, is a blow to the widely held theory that the Clovis culture -- named after a site in New Mexico where its distinct artifacts and fluted spearheads were first identified in the 1930s -- was the first human presence in North America. Jenkins said that while the human DNA found in Oregon could be from ancestors of the Clovis culture, none of the distinctive Clovis technology has been found in the region.

more...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/03/AR2008040302156.html

[dysfunctional press]

1. if the clovis culture was in new mexico...

"...the widely held theory that the Clovis culture -- named after a site in New Mexico where its distinct artifacts and fluted spearheads were first identified in the 1930s -- was the first human presence in North America."

wouldn't it make sense that there would have had to be a human presence elsewhere, in order for them to get to new mexico in the first place? :shrug:

or was the theory that the roswell aliens had visited earth earlier, and transported the clovis people there directly from asia?

[H2O Man]

2. The Clovis culture

was named for the site in New Mexico where it was first identified. But clovis culture artifacts, which include the distinct fluted points (larger than the related fluted Folsom points) are found throughout North America.

[dysfunctional press]

6. i guess i misinterpretated the sentence...i gotta stop reading things before breakfast.

or at least do fewer bong hits. :yoiks:

[H2O Man]

14. Here are a few

paleo era artifacts from upstate NY:

[MadAndy]

15. Fascinating. In addition to spear tips they also carried change. :-)

[dysfunctional press]

19. well to be fair, it WAS before cell phones...

nt

[L. Coyote]

20. fossil feces dated at 14,300 years

Fossilized feces found in Oregon suggest earliest human presence in North America
Sandi Doughton - Seattle Times - http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004322592_weboldpoop03m.html

... archaeologists digging in a dusty cave in Oregon have unearthed fossilized feces that appear to be oldest biological evidence of humans in North America.

The ancient poop dates back 14,300 years. If the results hold up, that means the continent was populated more than 1,000 years before the so-called Clovis culture, long believed to be the first Americans.

"This adds to a growing body of evidence that the human presence in the Americas predates Clovis," said Michael Waters, an anthropologist at Texas A&M University who was not involved in the project.

DNA analysis of the dried excrement shows the people who lived in the caves were closely related to modern Native Americans. ..........


========================
MORE morning reading here:
The Paleoamericans:
Issues and Evidence Relating to the Peopling of the New World
http://jqjacobs.net/anthro/paleoamericans.html

[dysfunctional press]

21. that is truly some stone-cold shit, man....

nt

[LiveLiberally]

3. Very, very interesting... Thanks for posting this /nt

[dembotoz]

4. but i thought mc cain wasn't buried yet

[rateyes]

8. The thread is about HUMAN remains.

That ape hasn't evolved yet.

[warrior1]

5. But

the earth is only 6,000 years old???11

[SoFlaJet]

7. you stole my thunder

W1-bastid LOL

[Nickster]

9. Exactly right, that's why they developed the demon carbon dating to fool with us true believers.

Don't believe the devil lies! :-)

[shraby]

10. People were in S. America much longer,

evidence has been found by Tim Dillehay that S. America was peopled close to 30,000 years ago. Google Mr. Dillehay. More than one site has been found in S. America that agree with his findings. There is also one in Pennsylvania that is much older than the Oregon site.

[H2O Man]

13. The Meadowcroft Rockshelter

is probably what you are thinking of from PA. the finds there have been estimated at 14,250 bc. (It stands out because rockshelters are not common sites for paleo-era occupation in the NE.) The Shoop site is also an important one, though not as old.

[shraby]

16. Every since high school I have held

to the belief that the "ice corridor" theory was wrong. That corridor would have been too hostile for people to travel in. Since then I've learned that the one who came up with that theory shot down any other ideas in order to keep his the only one going. Can't remember his name without looking it up, but he was powerful enough in the field to get away with it.
I've always thought that they didn't spend the proper resources even looking for earlier evidence because of him. They didn't look in other locations, or deep enough where they did look. Also the criteria for determining provenance was set unrealistically high..i.e. the point had to be imbedded in the bone, not just in the pile of bones.
I believe they came along the coast and down and probably even over the ocean where S. America is concerned due to the much much earlier evidence in S. America.

[H2O Man]

17. There have been

a few interesting things in my area. One was an archaeologist from an Oneonta NY university named Raemsch, who believed that he had found evidence of human occupation dating about 70,000 bc. I still have a July, 1976 newspaper with an article. It notes a prehistoric bison bone with what Raemsch believed were marks made by a human being.

Also, in the late 1960s, Louis Leaky spent a couple of years as a "visiting professor" at Cornell University in Ithaca. He may have influenced Raemsch -- though I'm speculating -- because he had some strong beliefs about the age of early American occupation. He had an interest in a site called Calico Hills, which would have been "lakeside" in ancient times. Ruth Simpson had found crude scrapers there, which she believed were far older than the paleo era. In one of the 20 test pits there (one was almost 80 feet deep), they found a semi-circle of stones that Leaky believed was an ancient hearth.

I try to keep an open mind. There will be, I am confident, advances in our understanding of the human history in the Americas. Fascinating topic.

Below is a photo of my some of my collection of "Bed 1" artifacts from Olduvai Gorge in Tanzania, which Dr. Leaky and his wife made famous. They date an estimate 1.75 to 1.88 million years old:

[shraby]

22. Dr. Leakey was always my favorite. He was

miles ahead of the rest as is his son Richard not to forget their wives who were famous in their own right. I remember reading about that lakeside. Didn't know you were a palenteology buff Waterman. If I'd had money for college after I graduated high school, I might have pursued a career in the field even tho the only college in Michigan that taught it was in Detroit. It's fascinating stuff.

edited to add the wives.

[shraby]

23. One more thing..you actually have artifacts

from Olduvai? Wow! Congratulations.

[Javaman]

11. mclames home? nt

[nebenaube]

12. They can say what they want...

I still think there were some pre-clovis ice age travelers that arrived on the east coast. I have in my collection; a pre-clovis atl-atl point that was found in Warrenton, Va. It's style matches the european tool designs from ~16,000 yrs ago.

[Swamp Rat]

18. New Mexico Cave Yields Clues to Early Man (35,000+ years ago)

New Mexico Cave Yields Clues to Early Man

By JOHN NOBLE WILFORD
Published: May 5, 1991

Archeologists have discovered bones, charcoal and possible stone artifacts in a New Mexico cave that they say is strong evidence that humans arrived in North America more than 35,000 years ago, much earlier than generally estimated.

"This is the best-documented evidence we have for the earliest humans in America," said Dr. Richard MacNeish, director of the Andover Foundation for Archeological Research, who led the team that made the discovery last winter near Orogrande in southern New Mexico.

Scientists agree that humans were living in the Americas 11,500 years ago, presumably having crossed the Bering Strait from northeast Asia. Beyond that, everything is subject to dispute, though a growing number of scholars are coming to the conclusion that people must have inhabited the Americas several thousand years earlier. But few have accepted the occasional reports of human artifacts dating back 32,000 years and more.

Other archeologists familiar with Dr. MacNeish's findings reacted with skepticism, noting that the cave scene could have a natural explanation not requiring the presence of humans. They said they would reserve judgment until they could see more detailed studies of the stone objects reported to be tools for butchering animals.

Dr. MacNeish, speaking by telephone on Thursday from the cave site, said some of the most compelling evidence included a broken spear point embedded in a bone from an extinct horse, a clay-lined fireplace and several pieces of stone that appeared to have been systematically chipped to create a butchering tool.

(snip)

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D0CE2D8173BF936A35756C0A967958260

______________

The fight about 'who found the earliest human activity' among archeologists rages on.