Florida again: Police remove teachers' leader from heated meeting.

[madfloridian]

And the school board chairwoman says the teachers are poorly behaved for trying to take a stand against a merit pay program literally being forced on the county. My last years before I retired, I taught at a school in a poverty stricken area. Instead of diverting funds to schools like this, the school board diverted them to more influential areas. One school had two sets of textbooks, almost new, one for school and one for home. Our school had one set, very old, science texts 10 yesr old at least. Yet we were expected to meet standards without proper equipment. I had no maps on my wall, had to buy them myself.

Are things so bad in the country now that teachers are poorly behaved when they stand up for themselves? Lectured like children? Escorted out of school board meetings by police?


MICHAEL WILSON/THE LEDGER
Teachers demonstrate against the STAR merit pay plan during the Polk County School Board's meeting Tuesday at Bartow High School. By a 6-1 vote, the School Board decided to accept the state's plan, which bases merit pay in part on students' FCAT performances.

Police remove teachers' leader from heated meeting.

— Admitting that their merit pay plan was flawed, Polk County School Board members approved it anyway Tuesday night in a heated meeting packed with hundreds of teachers at the Bartow High School auditorium.

'If you want to be angry at us, be angry at us,'' said School Board Chairwoman Margaret Lofton. 'But if you do this, then your actions will not be well taken and your thought process is not right.'

Marianne Capoziello, president of the Polk Education Association, called the board's decision to go with a plan based on student achievement, 'disrespectful.' Capoziello was removed from the auditorium before the vote by Bartow police when she tried to give the board more information.

Removed because she tried to give them more information. And then lectured.

Lofton, who had previously admonished the group for their members' bad manners, ordered Capoziello to leave. Red-shirted teachers reacted by following their leader into the auditorium lobby, where Capoziello urged them to return to the meeting.

'Go back in,' she said. 'Bear witness to what they are doing to you.'

More on the STAR program.

STAR Plan Divides Educators

It is based largely on testing data known to be very flawed.

[Quantess]

1. Legislators think they know how to do teachers' jobs.

I'd like to see them take a teachers' place for a full school day.

[Cha]

13. They couldn't do it!

I know I couldn't.

[Supersedeas]

33. Legislators can interfer in the classroom but not in war -- or so goes Repig logic

[gratuitous]

2. Merit pay for school board members

If this little scheme doesn't work (and it won't), will Ms. Lofton give back her pay? Resign? Or just say, "Oops, I made a boo-boo" and go on the Faux Lecture Circuit to tell other school boards how to fuck up the teachers and the classrooms?

[madfloridian]

25. Ms Lofton always sounds like that.

And the school board members don't deserve merit pay. They just do what the superintendent says.

[walldude]

3. So the soldiers should shut up. The liberals should

shut up. The environmentalists should shut up. Unions should shut up. Democrats should shut up and teachers should shut up. Woo Hoo, good thing I have all this freedom and all these civil liberties.

[Roland99]

4. .

:(

[madfloridian]

6. Just shut up.

:spank:

Who do you think you are anyway?

:evilgrin:

BTW....good post.

[AnnInLa]

5. We teachers went out on strike in 1988 in my parish

and one of the more educated, erudite school board members kept calling us "rebel rousers." The headline of our small-town newspapers screamed, "Board Member accuses teachers of Rebel Rousing." Needless to say, for years afterward, we would fall down laughing when one of us called another a "rebel rouser."

BTW, we won the right to collectively bargain our work contract every year.

Because we are a poor, rural parish, and the high school in which I taught was overloaded with Special Ed. students, I can't imagine being paid on a student-achievement basis. That doesn't make sense.

This is, of course, another attempt to hasten the demise of the public school system.

Public education is the great equalizer, and Republics/Conservatives do not want us all to have equal access to knowledge.

[madfloridian]

9. You are right. It is meant to hasten the demise of public schools.

No one seems to understand that when you have a class of students who are unable or unwilling to do well on tests, and you have little family involved...little recourse, no power over that class, that it is useless judge the teacher. When you don't have the resources and no one gets your back...that's trouble.

During our one strike in Florida in 1968, I think, a lot of teachers ended up being fired for poor performance. No one made the connection, no one stood up. And Florida is hopeless now for fairness.

[porphyrian]

7. Can we have merit pay for legislators?

I think most of them would end up paying us.

[notadmblnd]

8. They should just be happy they weren't tasered to death

You know how unruly teachers can be:sarcasm:

[AnneD]

10. They did a merit raise for us this year....

despite the unions objection. It was so unfair and lopsided. When a bunch of us went to the hearing of citizens meeting. First one member tried to cut it off all together (the members up for election nixed that). Then they cut the comments down to 1 minute, instead of the traditional 3, OK we weren't happy but we went along. Then we were lectured to like misbehaving school children when we applauded speakers.
What were we complaining about.....
many of our deserving co workers (all prek, kinder, and special ed teachers) did not get the merit they should have because the program was poorly designed and we wanted to include everyone.
Some people on growth plans (on step away from being fired) got money and a few teachers of the year didn't.
The goals, rules, and the way to achieve them were vague and really had no rhyme or reason. By singling out groups of teachers that make 7k bonuses as cream of the crop, it hurt many hard working teachers that work in difficult, low preforming schools.
This information was made public and ex's, bill collectors etc were threatening teacher.

Despite the fact that many of us there GOT BONUSES-we were portrayed by the board spokesman in the media as discontented teachers that were unhappy that they had not gotten a bonus. Anything to destroy the public schools.

[madfloridian]

12. One year a teacher on a "progress report"...got a huge raise

on step pay, $2000 that year. That is like your "growth plan". Those of us with great evaluations but not at that step got about 300 a year. She was in the room next door to me, and I spent half my day going next door to quiet her class.

Hello? Where's the fairness? I would never set foot back in a classroom here...over 30 years but no more.

That lady got 2000, but she was a terrible teacher. Unorganized, uncaring.

I had many good years of teaching, but I could not handle the stupidity now. I would not be able to keep my mouth shut, a must for teachers.

[earthlover]

11. ...and insane world

Of course, basing teacher's pay on student performance on standardized tests is the logical extension of the SOL tests.

I teach in a high school district that is marginal in meeting the required SOL test averages to get accredidation. Lots of poverty in the district, and a piss poor attitude towards education.

In a comedy of sorts, the social studies classes are divided into "honors" and non-honors classes. I put honors in quotes because about half the school gets put in there. I teach classes that are non-honors, which basically puts my brightest students at the 50 percentile. Get the picture?

Yet, us non-honors teachers are expected to get SOL scores that reflect the "averages" for accredidation. Which is quite a challenge, let me tell you!

Needless to say, the honors teachers don't feel the same pressures about SOL tests, since most of their students are gonna pass anyhow.

So if you base pay on test scores, isn't this discriminating against the very teachers who are needed the most if test scores are gonna be improved?

SOLs are the biggest fraud committed against education in years. No attempt is made to encourage critical thinking, everything is for the SOLs. Teaching and learning become boring, and dumbed down to the lowest common denominator, another word for the SOL. It is a travesty.
Nobody likes it.

But to base pay on it is the final insult! SOLs have already drained much of the fun of teaching, so now they want to be used as a club to reduce pay as well? The entire merit pay concept is based on the ability to pay some less. If a district paid more, it could attract more quality people. You don't get more quality by limiting the number of people you pay decent wages to. Just doesn't work that way.

After teaching ten years in the 70's-80's, and returning to teaching this past two years, I am hankering to go back to making more money than I do now. And my district doesn't have merit pay!

So I sympathize with those who face the double whammy of SOL worship coupled with it determining wages. An insane world.

[Solo_in_MD]

14. Did the union have an alternate proposal?

The industrial model pay rate scheme used in the vast majority of education contracts is part of the problem, but I have never seen a single union willing to for go it.

[madfloridian]

15. There are a whole bunch of articles linked from that page.

You need to read them. Children are not objects to be treated like corporations.

Besides, I say the sky is blue, you would insist it is green.

So be it.

[AnnInLa]

16. I retired last year, so happy about it!

When I first started teaching, it was fun and exciting, and the kids really wanted to learn for the sake of acquiring knowledge. They knew knowledge is power. But, somewhere down the line, they stopped thinking that education should be a priority, and their parents didn't correct that attitude. I think both the students and their parents reflected the attitude of society-in-general, that is, that education is no longer a huge priority, and that teachers should not be respected, and that the educational process is not to be respected. If teachers were respected more by society, we wouldn't have to fight for every little dime we get, and we wouldn't have to bargain for our working conditions.

Altho the NEA is not technically a union, it has union-like rights, and is the absolutely "best union" out there....the NEA taught us --- taught us to stand up for ourselves, and not be be society's doormat any longer. I'm pleased that the teachers in your OP are fighting back. If school boards had their way, we teachers would be teaching for zero bucks, just to "show that we are dedicated to the children" dontcha know.

Mad Floridian, didn't know that you are a retired teacher too...we need to start our own subgroup here on DU! lol

[madfloridian]

17. They waited so long to fight back here.

I was stunned when Jeb came in as governor....his word was God's word. My head reeled. He could put new policies in place, no matter what, the little sheep went along.

I am so proud to see them standing up now. This has never been much of an area where people stood up for their beliefs. Too much trouble.

So this really made me proud. A little late, I fear.

I was considered a maverick because I would ask questions during faculty meeting. Let that sink in. My last principal told a friend of mine at one meeting that she was speaking out of turn when she questioned a policy. She was marked down because she kept questioning.

The principal before that was an old friend who saw what was happening. He retired and left us to sink or swim. I can't say I blame him.

[Solo_in_MD]

18. And none proposed an alternate plan

that would allow the district and members of the local to to get the funding.

No plan is not a plan, and walking away from the funding is irresponsible fiscal management for the district and a disservice to the members of the local. The district knew it was imperfect, but at least was trying to the funds for some of their staff. The local should have cooperated to build a reasonable and effective plan rather than just claim is was disrespectful.

Unions, especially those representing professionals need to overcome the antiquated industrial model currently being used for compensation plans. Incentive/merit pay is coming, as are defined contribution retirement plans. Unions needs to step in and create a workable way to transition in a manner that effective and professional. Otherwise when their intransigent stance is overwhelmed their members will be much worse off.

[madfloridian]

19. Address the point about the police.

I believe the last time we encountered each other you were attacking me because I thought making a woman with a husband in Iraq and 3 small children sit in jail for almost two months for tossing a cup of ice in a paper cup into the next car in nearly stalled traffic was overkill.

Address the point about the police.

This came from the state. Teachers have no power to do anything like that. Do some reading.

Our police here are too busy with sending SWAT teams to arrest hedge clipper stealers. They don't have time for naughty teachers.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1105

[Solo_in_MD]

20. What point?

I believe the last time we encountered each other you were attacking me because I thought making a woman with a husband in Iraq and 3 small children sit in jail for almost two months for tossing a cup of ice in a paper cup into the next car in nearly stalled traffic was overkill.

As I recall you tried to close a thread and even deleted your original post when you got blasted by a number of people when you posted an older story and took others words out of context. If you think differently, feel free to link to the thread

Address the point about the police.
What point? Its also not particularly relevant to the concern of the union trying to stonewall merit pay rather than working out an approach that makes it fair and equitable. The days of the industrial compensation model, espcially for professionals, are numbered. Proactivity is called for.

This came from the state. Teachers have no power to do anything like that. Do some reading.
I did, each district was allowed to craft its own policy within certain parameters. The best course for the locals was to work out a way to best and most equitably distribute the funds to their members.

Our police here are too busy with sending SWAT teams to arrest hedge clipper stealers. They don't have time for naughty teachers.
After Jeb and reading your posts, nothing in FL surprises me anymore.

[madfloridian]

21. That reminds me of the Southern Baptist creed....

"God said it, I believe it, that settles it."

Leaves no other options, leaves room for no other opinion.

Thanks for the post that reminded me of that. It's nice to know everything.

[Solo_in_MD]

24. Indeed, you follow it well

as evidenced on this and prior threads

[Hardrada]

26. No, the NEA has seen this coming a long way off

and is helping to elect state legislatures that will not go the way you seem to think is some Hegelian historical imperative.

[Solo_in_MD]

27. That has worked to a limited amount in places like Los Angeles

where the local really does pack the school board. However the initiative process, at least in CA, may not be able to stave it off in the long run.

The looming public pension meltdown and the Gen X and Gen Y proclivity to change jobs and careers mean that the seniority rankings and defined benefit pensions are going to go away, just like in private industry. The Federal government went to defined contribution pensions in the 80s and seniorty died some years ago at some places and will go away overall with NSPS, starting with the DoD

[Hardrada]

37. Corporate capitalism is just PO'd because it can't outsource

teaching, or policing and Fed Exing. In any case, the Reaganite antilabot policies need to be reversed. Thinking of schools and hospitals, for that matter, as some kind of factories meeting quotas is an antiquated state capitalism redolent of Stalinism in fact.

[DrunkenMaster]

30. education isn't manufacturing!

The public school system should not be constructed in a way that mirrors industry, which seems to be what you are proposing...

[Solo_in_MD]

41. Its pay system certainly is...

Defined benefit pensions and seniority driven assignments/payscales are right out of the factory and are the current norm for education.

Defined contribution is becoming the norm, will be fairer over a worker's lifetime, and that does not have classroom implications. The Feds have been on it since the mid 80s.

Incentive pay is norm for professionals. The NEA needs to take the lead in developing incentive systems that work for all facets of the profession. Special Ed and fine arts teachers have to be rated differently than math teachers. The union should work towards an equitable incentive system.

[madfloridian]

22. It's all about state money...you adopt the plan or you get no money.

It's a state power play. I think one county resisted it, but they will be short several million.

At least this county did not have the few teachers who were there escorted out by police.

Money talks.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/seminole/orl-star2107feb21,0,3286176.story?coll=orl-home-headlines

"About 1,100 Seminole teachers will split about $3.7 million, under the plan which the board agreed to impose. Statewide, about 45,000 teachers will share $147 million, based in part on student scores on the Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test."

The FCAT is a failed assessment test.

[madfloridian]

23. A dad figured why his kid was getting shuffled from class to class.

I would like to say he is wrong, but I fear there is truth in it. Under this new merit pay, the teacher will be judged on how the kids do, whether the kids are smart or not, whether the teachers are good or not.

I hate to tell the dad he might be right.

http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/news_education_edblog/2007/02/dad_questions_m.html

"I got an e-mail from a dad in Orange County who says he finally has figured out why teachers don't want his son, who is not a good reader, in their classes. The fifth grader has been labeled a poor prospect for FCAT success, he says, and has been shuffled from class to class.

"Now, I see money is the reason for this problem," dad says.

Dad has been following the debate on the new merit pay plan for Florida's teachers. Those whose students score highest on the Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test or other measures will get bonuses amounting to 5 percent of their salaries. Competition is stiff, with only one out of four teachers getting the cash.

Would teachers weed out the kids who might make them look bad and cut into the paycheck?

That's just one of the issues surfacing as the state's new STAR merit pay plan rolls out toward its first payoff for teachers. State legislators who enacted the plan last spring saw it as a simple calculation. Classes A, B, C and D each have 18 kids. Add up the number of successful readers in each class, based on the FCAT, and give the teacher with the best score a bonus. Pure economic incentive, like they do in business.

But teachers are among those complaining loudest. One Seminole County teacher suggested that dentists be measured the same way. Look at the number of kids each serves and count cavities at the end of the year. Then say a quarter of them - those with the lowest cavity counts - are good dentists. And wait for the reaction from the dentists and their patients. By the way, the teacher suggests, no whining about pre-existing conditions, chocolate intake or missed dental appointments."

Sorry, Dad, I hate to think you are right. Just don't blame the teachers. Blame the state and the counties who won't stand up the Jeb cronies who did this plan.

[AnneD]

28. We are afraid we will start seeing that....

in our classes too. The districts think that they can motivate these bonus teacher to go to these schools that have warnings or are low preforming....yeah and monkeys will fly outta my butt. If your school didn't improve-you don't even GET a chance at a bonus to begin with.
Use to be that they took the average of ALL your groups to measure your school. Now all your groups have to pass in order for you improve. That may be ok if you have one or 2-3 groups-but if you are a diverse school (17 sub groups) like ours-it kills us. Now I don't know about you guys, but I'd rather my kid learn in a diverse environment, because that is what the real world is-and yet our teachers and school are punished for what we cherish most about our school.
We are also starting to see parents not wanting to go into a good teachers class because she didn't get a bonus (the info was made public and is on the news papers web site). Now how screwed up is that!
My time is short in the public school system-and if they think they will have trouble finding a good teacher-try finding a good school nurse that will accept that salary and jump through those ridiculous number of hoops for more chump change. School kids die from not having a Nurse in the schools and those with special medical needs are basically discriminated against in the school setting. I worked one day in a hospital and made my school 'bonus'. I work 6 days in a hospital and earn my monthly pay check. I love my job but I can't say as I don't think about making the change.

[madfloridian]

29. Good analysis.

Once the paper publishes the names of the bonus teachers, who in our area will nearly always be at the very best schools with the greatest resources....the parents won't have a way to really know the situation.

There will be no way to explain it either. About 20 years ago I started hearing on the media that our schools were not preparing students for the work place. I thought huh? We were doing a great job overall. Now I realize that was the start of the meme to blame the schools and the people for not being good for the workforce...and our corporations could more easily move overseas.

[AnneD]

35. You know....

after I just wrote that response-I got called to an emergency. A child was chocking during a test-I swear-DURING THE TEST. It was on a piece of candy and I think the teacher managed to dislodge it so he could breathe-but what will those results look like. And what if a Nurse wasn't there to take it off the teachers hands. What a mess. Well, my years are in the single digits on one hand now.

[madfloridian]

40. I had two boys who sat there for entire tests and refused to take them.

This was when I was in 4th grade. They just said they were tired. They had it planned ahead of time. The mothers got involved after I called them, but I don't remember that it ever got worked out on that section. We didn't have the option to keep giving the test until they decided to take it. :shrug:

[Zuiderelle]

31. Stunning. I think he's right about his son.

How many children will be left behind because of this? Or shuffled through school with good grades undeserved, and graduating with no education? This really is tragic.

[Forkboy]

32. You live in one messed up state

:evilgrin:

[madfloridian]

34. Looks like calculus teacher would be compared with teacher of low performing students.

I found this at Polk Voice in the comments. The whole thing is truly pathetic.

" Just for the record, in case this isn't known by some...the STAR program is set up so that a teacher who teaches the lowest performing students (levels 1 or 2 based on FCAT scores) would be compared to a teacher who teaches the highest performing students (calculus, AP classes, etc.). Gains made by lower performing students would not be recognized on behalf of the teacher who teaches them. In other words, even if the lower performing students made great strides for the year - the teacher who taught them would not be considered a "STAR" teacher because her students might still be below the qualifying achievement level according to the FCAT. However, the teacher who teaches the students who are already high-achievers (and continue to get the qualifying achievement level on the FCAT) would be considered a "STAR" teacher and would be paid accordingly."

http://blogs.polkvoice.com/default.asp?item=510313

[NotGivingUp]

36. this country of ours truly sucks....and it just keeps getting suckier. eom

[madfloridian]

38. Pinellas School Board turns down $6.1 million teacher bonus plan

I say good for them. Too many counties did not have the courage to do that.

http://www.tampabays10.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=50153

"Largo, Florida-In a surprise move, the Pinellas School Board voted against the state's teacher bonus plan and the $6.1 million that comes along with it. The vote came down 5-2 against the plan.

The Special Teachers are Rewarded or STAR gives the district's 25% top performing teachers a 5% salary bonus.

The awards are based on how well students do on the FCAT."

[cureautismnow]

39. Kudos to Pinellas!

5 school board members who actually get it. :applause: