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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 03:10 PM
Original message
Lest we "demonize" Heston too hastily
I know he said some dumb things in his later years, but..did you also know his strong ties to Civil Rights..back when it counted the most?




The March on Washington

Nobody was sure how many people would turn up for the demonstration in Washington, D.C. Some travelling from the South were harrassed and threatened. But on August 28, 1963, an estimated quarter of a million people—about a quarter of whom were white—marched from the Washington Monument to the Lincoln Memorial, in what turned out to be both a protest and a communal celebration. The heavy police presence turned out to be unnecessary, as the march was noted for its civility and peacefulness. The march was extensively covered by the media, with live international television coverage.

The event included musical performances by Marian Anderson; Joan Baez; Bob Dylan; Mahalia Jackson; Peter, Paul, and Mary; and Josh White. Charlton Heston—representing a contingent of artists, including Harry Belafonte, Marlon Brando, Diahann Carroll, Ossie Davis, Sammy Davis Jr., Lena Horne, Paul Newman, and Sidney Poitier–read a speech by James Baldwin.

The speakers included all of the "Big Six" civil-rights leaders (James Farmer, who was imprisoned in Louisiana at the time, had his speech read by Floyd McKissick); Catholic, Protestant, and Jewish religious leaders; and labor leader Walter Reuther. The one female speaker was Josephine Baker, who introduced several "Negro Women Fighters for Freedom," including Rosa Parks.
Noteworthy Speeches

The two most noteworthy speeches came from John Lewis and Martin Luther King, Jr.

Lewis represented the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee, a younger, more radical group than King's. The speech he planned to give, circulated beforehand, was objected to by other participants; it called Kennedy's civil rights bill "too little, too late," asked "which side is the federal government on?" and declared that they would march "through the Heart of Dixie, the way Sherman did" and "burn Jim Crow to the ground–nonviolently." In the end, he agreed to tone down the more inflammatory portions of his speech, but even the revised version was the most controversial of the day, stating:

The revolution is at hand, and we must free ourselves of the chains of political and economic slavery. The nonviolent revolution is saying, "We will not wait for the courts to act, for we have been waiting hundreds of years. We will not wait for the President, nor the Justice Department, nor Congress, but we will take matters into our own hands, and create a great source of power, outside of any national structure that could and would assure us victory." For those who have said, "Be patient and wait!" we must say, "Patience is a dirty and nasty word." We cannot be patient, we do not want to be free gradually, we want our freedom, and we want it now. We cannot depend on any political party, for the Democrats and the Republicans have betrayed the basic principles of the Declaration of Independence.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you for this.
It pains me to see so many DUers indulging in so much petty malice and base spitefulness.

Obviously, giving in to the lizard brain isn't an exclusively right wing trait.

sw
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eShirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. ain't it the truth.
k&r
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. More from wikipedia
Political activism
Charlton Heston (left) with Marlon Brando, James Baldwin, and Harry Belafonte at Civil Rights March 1963
Charlton Heston (left) with Marlon Brando, James Baldwin, and Harry Belafonte at Civil Rights March 1963
Heston with United States President Ronald Reagan during a meeting for the Presidential Task Force on the Arts and Humanities in the White House Cabinet Room, 1981
Heston with United States President Ronald Reagan during a meeting for the Presidential Task Force on the Arts and Humanities in the White House Cabinet Room, 1981

Heston campaigned for Presidential candidate Adlai Stevenson in 1956 and John F. Kennedy in 1960.<9> When an Oklahoma movie theater premiering his movie was segregated, he joined a picket line outside in 1961.<10> During the civil rights march held in Washington, D.C. in 1963, he accompanied Martin Luther King Jr. In later speeches, Heston said he helped the civil rights cause "long before Hollywood found it fashionable."<11>

In 1968, following the assassination of Senator Robert F. Kennedy, Heston appeared on The Joey Bishop Show and, along with fellow actors Gregory Peck, Kirk Douglas and James Stewart, called for public support for President Johnson's Gun Control Act of 1968.<12><13> He opposed the Vietnam War and said he voted for Richard Nixon in 1972.<14>

//////////////////////////////////

apparently he turned to the right after Reagan got in in 1980..but before that he was a staunch leftie ...
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Lex Talionis Donating Member (306 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #1
36. You speak the truth,scarletwoman. Well said. n/t
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #36
39. Thanks, and --
hey, nice to see you again!

:hi:
sw
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Lex Talionis Donating Member (306 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 08:16 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Been working for the man. :)
Got on these Heston threads and been reading some of the post. Sad, sad indeed.

Thanks for the info on Bageant, we have some of the same gripes. :toast:
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #41
42. I've been simply avoiding DU, myself. I think I picked a bad weekend to check back in.
Bashing the newly deceased is not my idea of enlightened progressivism.

I'm gratified that you checked out Joe Bageant, he's one of my favorite essayists.

:toast: back atcha!
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Mike Daniels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #1
49. He was opposed to McCarthy's purges as well
I think Heston saw something happen that led him to go to the right after his career was past its peak. What that was, I'm not sure.

That said, he was involved in a lot of liberal causes during the glory years of his career.
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #49
53. Yeah, it's frustrating not to know what caused it.
It could be something as simple as chemical changes happening in his brain long before he was diagnosed with Alzheimers. There's still a lot that's not known about that disease.

I'd rather just accept him as a complicated being than demonize him.

sw
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FourScore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thank you. n/t
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
4. Sorry but haven't seen people demonizing Moses much.
Not here. I think most people here actually liked Charlie.
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Did you see this?
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Two threads, not much really.
Edited on Sun Apr-06-08 03:36 PM by Rex
Were you around here when Reagan died? Heston is a small bump compared to what I've seen here in the past.
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. That was just offhand, not searching.
I've seen plenty more of it. More offensive to me, having a sense of humour, is the grotesque overuse of the "was there a gun in his cold dead hands? duh huh ha haaaa!" jokes.

I think I remember Reagan's death here. I may be confusing it with Falwell or a number of others.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. People openly partied after Falwells death here, I admit.
Just to me it seems rather small the amount of people, who are sincere in their hatred for Heston. And the gun thing is Heston's own fault - a stupid thing to say over and over again.
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. Did he say it over and over?
Or have we just heard it over and over? It was stupid, at any frequency, no doubt.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
17. He did say it over and over, his NRA days made it what he was remembered for.
So that is why I am having a hard time getting mad at people for joking about it. And I know people here will get mad at me for saying this, but I watched 'Bowling for Columbine' again the other day and actually felt sorry for Heston, he looked tired and beat down.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. I think he had alzheimers or parkinsons
I was embarrassed for him in that movie too.. It ws obvious that he was old and sick.. kind of a Norma Desmond moment.. he probably thought that Moore was a fan.. He probably didn't even know who Moore was..
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I read that he didn't know who Moore was.
And I don't think it was right to do what he did to Heston, but I'm not a CH hater so will get flamed I'm sure.
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michreject Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. Not from me you won't
I'm a fan myself.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. I admire him as an actor....
I doubt many here saw him in Branagh's 1996 Hamlet.... (His role was the lead player in the "play-within the play.") He recites the story of the violent death of Priam (last King of Troy). Despite all the silly roles along the way, he clearly still "had it." I was glad I saw him in that role, during a time I had developed considerable contempt for his political views and actions... It helps put his life in perspective.

RIP, Mr. Heston and peace to your family.
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Sequoia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 10:33 AM
Response to Reply #4
52. Ha, ha...actually I did last week or so.
In the light of the movie "10 Commandments" where I said Yul was sexier looking than shabby dirty Moses. But then again.."Get your stinkin' paws offame you damn dirty ape!"

I saw Charleston Heston and Gergory Peck at Spagos on my 30th birthday. Cool! Rest in peace, Charlie.
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ChazII Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R
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Unbowed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
10. Thank you for this post.
Charlton Heston wasn't a neocon although they used him as a symbol.

People who attack him on his beliefs should at least be aware of the broad range those beliefs extended.
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 03:39 PM
Response to Original message
11. Does a few years of good atone for decades of evil?
Edited on Sun Apr-06-08 03:39 PM by Paint It Black
I don't know what happened to turn him from a civil rights marcher into the biggest right-wing icon short of Reagan. Sadly, we'll never know how many people have died because of his affiliation with the NRA, and its status as one of the most influential (and feared) lobbying groups in Washington.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. realistically, by the time he took up with the right wing causes
Edited on Sun Apr-06-08 03:44 PM by SoCalDem
his career was pretty much over.. he was old, and not all that influential.. Back when he was a MOVIE STAR, in the 60's he put it all on the line for civil rights.. That's when he had the most to lose..

I did not agree with his post-reagan stances, but by then he was laughed AT, more than agreed WITH..
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
25. I disagree.
I think he was a very effective fund-raiser and lobbyist, revered by a hell of a lot of wingnuts.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. I've wondered for years what explains the 180 degree turn...
Perhaps a more "liberal" close member of his family (if there is one) will write a memoir sometime soon to offer some perspective and explanation...
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SquireJons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Me too!
I have wondered about this for years. And he's not the only one who flipped sides. Ronald Reagan at one time was a liberal democrat. He also was president of the Actors Guild, just like Heston. Seems that both of them ended up discouraged and completely reoriented by the experience, since both went over to the dark side shortly there after. Someone ought to be taking a close look at that position to see what republicans are putting in the kool-aid.

Another in the mold of Reagan and Heston is David Horowitz. He claims that his conversion from extreme liberal to extreme conservative was a result of the murder of a young woman activist who disappeared and whose disappearance was linked to the Black Panthers, the very same organization she was volunteering to help. Who knows really? I can see how the death of someone close to you could be a life changing experience, but how does it change your entire ethical foundation?

Along those lines... how does Heston go from being an icon for progressive politics to an icon for extreme conservatism? Some bright person needs to do in-depth interviews with people like this and see what the common factors are.

Conversely, there are very prominent former conservatives who late in life worked very hard to reverse their legacy; men like Berry Goldwater and George Wallace. Is that just the flip side of the coin, or is there more to it?

Btw... this is my 1000th post! Hope it's a good one.
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #23
45. It is a good one... quite thoughtful.... Congratulations on 1000th!
Edited on Sun Apr-06-08 09:56 PM by hlthe2b
The topic seems a natural follow-up to John Dean's book on conservatives and the authoritarian personality. (forgot the name, but I did read it)....
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #23
48. interesting
It would be interesting to see how the man that wanted to work with Orson Wells, became the more cartoon character most DUers seem to remember.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #16
50. He did not make a 180 turn
Do you have some evidence that he was against civil rights? He took up with the NRA thats not a 180 its one position among many he had.. Some you agree with and some you dont..
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #50
58. ...
"Why is “Hispanic Pride” or “Black Pride” a good thing, while “White Pride” conjures shaven heads and white hoods? Why was the Million Man March on Washington celebrated by many as progress, while the Promise Keepers March on Washington was greeted with suspicion and ridicule? I’ll tell you why, Cultural warfare!"

"...the God fearing, law-abiding, Caucasian, middle- class Protestant-or even worse, evangelical Christian, Midwestern or Southern- or even worse, rural, apparently straight-or even worse, admitted heterosexuals, gun-owning-or even worse, NRA-card-carrying, average working stiff-or even worse, male working stiff-because, not only don’t you count, you are a down-right obstacle to social progress. Your voice deserves a lower decibel level, your opinion is less enlightened, your media access is insignificant, and frankly, mister, you need to wake up, wise up, and learn a little something from your new-America and until you do, would you mind shutting up?"


"Political correctness is tyranny with manners."

"Well, we have, probably, more mixed ethnicity than other countries... some other countries."

- on why we have more gun deaths in the U.S.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #58
71. Sources...
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 10:55 PM
Response to Reply #71
76. Google is your friend, Dad.....
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #76
77. All google brings up is
people putting those quotes next to 'Heston is an ass' nowhere am I seeing the full source from which they came..
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #50
75. The 180 degree turn was from lib- progressive to RW conservative
including his stance on choice (last time I checked, ownership of one's body was a civil right)....

Unlike some, I don't view Heston in black versus white terms. But, he clearly DID turn hard right (180 degrees hard right) in his political views late in life.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 09:08 AM
Response to Reply #75
78. Saying he took a 180 would mean all the things he blieved in the 60's
Such as Equal rights for minorities he no loner believed in the 90's
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #78
80. He didn't get the chance to revoke equal rights....
Edited on Tue Apr-08-08 09:59 AM by hlthe2b
and I am NOT saying nor implying that he would have wanted to....

He did, however support RW positions that were in direct opposition to equal opportunities for minorities and affirmative action of any kind. He supported horrendous stereotypes (including the Reagan "welfare queen" ) that were used to decimate the gains made in Johnson's war on poverty and had a tremendous role in the devastation of the poor and middle class today.


I respect Heston as an actor. I respect his earlier contributions. I see him for the complex figure he was, including the aspect that was not very admirable at all. On balance, though, I find him to be an honorable man... Thus my interest in understanding the seeming paradox between his early views and latter....

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Hangingon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #11
35. I would like to know how you could calculate the death toll
of his NRA activity. So far as I know, the NRA never killed anyone.
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Hugabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 08:41 PM
Response to Reply #35
43. The NRA is no doubt responsible for a great many deaths
There's really no way to put a "death toll" on it. However, they've opposed countless measures designed to help save lives (trigger locks, etc) and to make it more difficult for impulse buyers to buy guns (waiting periods, background checks).
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Hangingon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 09:34 AM
Response to Reply #43
47. So you agree that "death toll" is an unfounded exaggeration.
The NRA does work for enforcement of existing gun laws. They were for the background check system. NRA backs safe storage of firearms but does resist gun locks because they risk the lives of people whose homes are being invaded or who face attack.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
18. Though I'm unstinting in my willingness to rip on Heston the gun-nut...
.... The full truth IS nevertheless valuable.
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jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
19. Heston supported the Dem platform that says We will protect Americans' Second Amendment right to own
firearms".

Heston also endorsed Don Siegelman for AL governor against Rep. Riley and the NRA rated Don A+.
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vssmith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
22. I wonder if they will be able to pry his fingers off his gun before burial
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #22
27. stupid and has been done over and over. now whoever uses it...
smirk
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 04:19 PM
Response to Original message
24. He was the front-man for a rightwing corporate lobby.
I don't hate the man or celebrate his suffering and death, but his late-life politics were reprehensible. Take a look at the opensecrets.org chart at the link: around 90% of NRA contributions the last several election cycles went to Republicans, to the tune of millions every election. Heston helped to create the Bush nightmare; nothing to admire (and much to deride) in that.

http://opensecrets.org/industries/indus.asp?Ind=Q13
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #24
29. I have to wonder if his brain disease was responsible. If it hit the area that
controls judgment early on, before it affected his memory ....
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. Conservatism as symptom of brain disease.
Works for me.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #37
38. I was thinking more in terms of a change in long held attitudes, opinions,
Edited on Sun Apr-06-08 07:22 PM by hedgehog
character, personality, etc. For example, if someone who has been nice to everyone for years starts swearing like a longshoreman, something may be up.


On edit: on the other hand, GW Bush may be in the White House.....
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. Does it ever happen the other way?
Do rabid reactionaries ever become thoughtful progressives in their senescence? I don't think so.
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ElkHunter Donating Member (300 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
26. Heston was on the right side of many issues in the 60's...
Edited on Sun Apr-06-08 04:26 PM by ElkHunter
...just like many of his generation. My own father, who is just a few years younger than Heston, campaigned for JFK in '60; Johnson in '64; and Bobby in '68. He also admired Martin Luther King. I still remember as a kid my parents explaining what was going on in places like Selma, Alabama and why our family supported the civil rights movement. But like Heston, my father voted Republican in 1980 and is today a staunch Republican. For people like Heston and my father I think it was both guns and the cultural issues of the 60's that eventually caused them to move to the Republican camp. Vietnam played a big role as well. While it's certainly sad when former liberals become conservatives, I think we can still celebrate and honor the ideals they held in their youth.
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Cronopio Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
30. I remember what Gore Vidal said about Heston's "a friend, in every way" scene in Spartacus. :)
I didn't like his politics, but no one could say "DAMMMMMMMMNNNNN YOUUUUUUU!!!" with the same corny gravitas as him.
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DiverDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
31. How many people have died because he wanted ANYONE to have a
gun???

Fuck him, this negates anything he did before.
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Paladin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 05:48 PM
Response to Original message
32. Heston's Political Views In Latter Part Of His Life......
....amounted to nothing so much as pissing on MLK's grave. He repudiated his associations with the civil rights movement in every way possible. Nothing you gun activists can dredge up can change that.....
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Norwood Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 05:58 PM
Response to Original message
33. Thank you for this
DU is gonna be very unpleasant for the next few days with all the anti-gun crazys out in full force.
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Paladin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Deal With It

Heston hated both Democrats and liberals of all sorts. He made no secret of his offensive, far right-wing views, and if we real Democrats aren't shedding any tears over his passing on, that's only natural. You don't have to be a gun control advocate to find Heston's viewpoints repulsive---he damned sure didn't confine his anti-progressive outlook to guns.....

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Brigid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #34
51. When it comes to Charlton Heston, all I really care about . . .
is the memory of him showing up in Denver just days after Columbine, literally rubbing their faces in the tragedy that had just happened. Then he did the same thing in Flint, MI, just after a gun tragedy involving a six-year-old shooting another six-year-old at school. I am shedding no tears for this right-wing gun nut.
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DinahMoeHum Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:03 PM
Response to Original message
44. Show biz saying: you're only as good as your last performance. . .
and his gigs with the guns and the RW trash sucked - big time.

:evilfrown:

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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-06-08 09:41 PM
Response to Original message
46. He could rest on those laurels only so long
by backing who he did in the influential part of his waning years he undid much of any good he might have accomplished.

We are better off with him dead.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 05:59 PM
Response to Original message
54. Old Onion headline: "Actor Alec Baldwin signs two year deal to care about environment"
Fuck Charleton Heston. The fucker was a white supremacist, regardless of whatever cause he pretended to endorse.
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sergeiAK Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #54
56. Uh, what?
I can see calling him a misogynist, but a racist? How do you figure that?
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. His statements disparaging black people for gun deaths.
:shrug:
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sergeiAK Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. Link?
I've never seen such, though, admittedly, I've not really looked.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 06:17 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. Upthread
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sergeiAK Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Can't watch the video at the moment
but from the quotes upthread, he seems to be touting the old "poor mistreated white man" line. While that is some tired old RW tripe, it's not exactly racist.

If you're referring to the quote on saying that the US has more violence because we're more diverse, again, not, aside from stating that people of different races tend to kill each other for being different.

If there's another quote you were referring to, I'll have to watch the video later.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. Now you're just making lame excuses.
If you want to pretend Heston wasn't a racist, fine, just don't expect anybody to believe you.
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sergeiAK Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #66
67. He didn't say anything openly racist
Edited on Mon Apr-07-08 06:46 PM by sergeiAK
And he was active in the civil rights movement. Therefore, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. You said he blamed black people for gun deaths. He said nothing of the sort. Or, if he did, you could've quoted it, no?

Or you could make a real rebuttal.

But you won't.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. He blamed ethnic minorities for gun deaths in this counrty.
That is absolutely, openly racist.
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sergeiAK Donating Member (438 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #68
69. Not according to your quote
Edited on Mon Apr-07-08 06:59 PM by sergeiAK
From your post, he said that the massive diversity of this nation contributed to the violence. Not minorities, but the fact that there are many different ethnic groups in one country. Somehow, people (of all ethnic groups) seem to like killing those that they perceive as "different". That's what I get from his quote.

But keep misquoting the man, it really lends credence to your argument. :sarcasm:
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
55. He also made some thought-provoking movies, like Soylent Green & Omega Man. nt
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #55
65. How could you not mention "Planet of the Apes"?
Can you top the last scene in that?

Or, "Get your filthy paws off me, you damned dirty ape!"
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Ilsa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 07:35 PM
Response to Reply #65
70. True. Another great one. nt
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bunkerbuster1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
57. It's good to try to find the best in people when you can
and it's never too late to find it. Thanks for this post.
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Fox Mulder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
62. So he did one good thing in the 80+ years of his life.
I'll never like him. I hope he's burning in hell.
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Medusa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 08:36 PM
Response to Reply #62
72. That one good thing was a mighty good thing
Edited on Mon Apr-07-08 08:40 PM by Mystery2Me
and it's more than some people do with their entire lives. I didn't agree with him on much but he DID represent in an era when it really counted. That at least should be mentioned and noted and remembered.

Still i always did wonder what led him to become so pro-NRA in his later years.
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baldguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
64. If you lie with dogs you might end up with fleas.
Charlie's been fucking around with a lot of dogs the last few years.
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Xenotime Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 08:38 PM
Response to Original message
73. BUT his politics went all fundie. He turned his back on us.
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NikolaC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-07-08 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
74. I Never Knew
I was one who grew up disliking the Charlton Heston of the 80s on. I wonder what it was that turned him from being a lefty to an NRA nut. Sadly, that is the side to him that many know. Thanks for sharing this information, I will now be looking up more about him.
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 09:26 AM
Response to Original message
79. He was a *reader* - an actor/vessel to be filled with the words of others
Edited on Tue Apr-08-08 09:27 AM by UTUSN
Yesterday LIMBOsevic played a tape of him calling-in to the LIMBOsevic circus in '95, and proceeding to READ Michael CRICHTON's prologue to Jurassic Park, which LIMBOsevic said disproved global warming.


The words were high-sounding, persuasive, sweeping. Just what an actor looks for (but doesn't have on his own).


I suppose that all of his "later" thoughts are here considered out of range because of his earlier participation in the Civil Rights demonstrations. What about Barry GOLDWATER, whose later thoughts were actually Lib?



What we have of his OWN words are anti-us. I submit that his looking for DRAMA and WORDS, that his INSTRUMENTS (voice and looks) could trumpet, was a lot of what was going on with this ACTOR. As for the demonstrations, all he had to do was BE there.
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-08-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
81. Loved the guy.
Sorry he is gone.:cry:
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