Charlton Heston owned guns. How many people did he kill with them?

[The Straight Story]

I am sure there are some stats somewhere that show how many people he offed with his guns, I have just been too busy today to track them down.

Anyone here able to help me out :)

[jody]

1. Perhaps the answer is zero. How many have you killed? n/t

[The Straight Story]

27. None yet

but I am working on it according to some here :)

[jody]

33. May your days be numerous, drenched with sunshine, filled with happiness, and without the burden of

having to take the life of another human being. :hi:

[Richard Steele]

77. I've owned well over 300 firearms in my life, and never killed anyone with any of them. nm

[zanne]

82. There's a difference between a gun collection and an arsenal. nt

[benEzra]

110. What constitutes an arsenal to you? (n/t)

[Richard Steele]

113. An intangible difference that exists only in the mind. nm

[zanne]

114. Of course; because guns are imaginary. nt

[Richard Steele]

116. What an utterly inane comment. nm

[zanne]

117. Well, you showed me!

:rofl: Do you even know what "inane" means?

[Richard Steele]

118. Yup- absurd, asinine, meaningless, mindless and pointless.

All of which describe your silly & childish excuse for a comment.

[zanne]

122. So shoot me.

[roguevalley]

134. zanne, you slay me! LOL!

[mr_hat]

2. 312.

Prove me wrong.

[habitual]

4. :D (nt)

[Zynx]

11. I say that you are behind every murder in the last 10 years.

Why not?

[coriolis]

3. 42

Must be.

[Subdivisions]

112. After all, 42 is The Answer

[fascisthunter]

5. It's a Fortunate Thing No One Was Killed

or those guns didn't end up in the wrong hands. Congratulations, you found someone who was a responsible gun owner.... wow.

[Zynx]

12. About 98% of gun owners are responsible.

[fascisthunter]

16. So Only 2% are Using Guns to Kill in this Country?

That's quite alot for just 2% Oh... they aren't real owners. Gun ownership isn't even the point I was making. Just that guns make it that much easier to kill, especially when irresponsible or sick folks get their hands on them. Nothing, no spin will ever change that fact. Guns are used to kill=weapons suck.

[Zynx]

20. Actually that works out to be too much.

80,000,000 gun owners. 2% would be 1.6 million murderers. We only have 17,000 or so total homicides a year. 11,000 of them from guns.

I said the 98% instead of 99.5% or something like that to account for muggings and other things.

[zanne]

85. 11,000 homicides from guns each year?

And you're bragging about that? That's a totally ridiculous number. As for "only 17,000 homicides", I only have this to ask you; "Where the hell do you come from when 17,000 homicides is an acceptable number to you"?

[Edweird]

93. in 2002, 936,923 (almost a million!) died from heart disease

553,091 died from malignant neoplasms (cancer)
122.009 died from lower respiratory disease
69,301 from diabetes
65,313 from Influenza and Pneumonia
49,558 from Alzheimers
43,354 from Motor Vehicle Accidents

from 2000 to 2002
34,320 deaths from decubitus ulcers (bedsores)
BEDSORES!

In perspective, that 11,000 isn't a particularly startling or terrifying number. Or even all that high. Except to you.

[dysfunctional press]

111. 13470 killed by drunk drivers- booze is deadlier than guns too...

why don't more people call for it to be banned?...:shrug:

[Zynx]

104. My point is that the overwhelming majority of gun owners don't go around killing people.

I think the fact that we seem to always have homicides in the high tens of thousands is nothing short of tragedy, but my point is that the odds are that a gun owner is not going to be shooting anyone.

[The Straight Story]

28. How many responsible gun owners are there in the US anyway?

Probably quite a few, but they don't make the press...

[fascisthunter]

32. How Many? Who Cares...

too many irresponsible people over shadow the few and with damn good reason. You don't change the fact that lives are lost when you own a gun responsibly, so why should you get the press?

[Zynx]

35. Do you have a response to my earlier post on the percentages and numbers?

[fascisthunter]

41. No, Because It is Irrelevant to Me

I'm not interested in your stats.... people are dying everyday due to guns, regardless of what your stats state. Guns are devices used to kill. Guns are fun for hobby sake (shooting at a gun range: a controlled environment), collecting, and give solace to those who are paranoid. They also are a means of making certain folks of low self-esteem feel tough, for guns have the power to take a life easier than most weapons. Wielding that power goes to some people's heads. Then there are more practical uses, such as for military use, law enforcement, protection of property and hunting. Other than that, it's a hobby.... I believe in keeping folks safe from guns, not throwing more fuel onto an already burning flame, especially in our cities.

We all expect folks to be responsible with guns. They don't deserve a gold star for doing what is expected of them by law. And we know that due to folks need for guns, guns are getting into hands of too many who are not responsible, yet want to do harm upon society. Those guns exist because of a demand by a small number in this country compared to those who don't seem to have that same desire or need. We see a spread in promoting guns as a danger to our way of life without a need for guns. You are spreading an arms race within our own society and on DU.

[zanne]

40. Well, here's your chance to set the record straight...

But you can't, because even "law-abiding" gun owners can go nuts and shoot their families. If my husband had a rage problem and a gun, I wouldn't stick around.

[coriolis]

43. What would you do if your husband had a rage problem and a machete?

??

[zanne]

81. Guns are the coward's weapon of choice...

You can post all day, comparing guns to swords or gun deaths to car accidents, but I know that you're just avoiding the truth--that cowards typically use guns to harm people because they can kill from a distance. You don't need to get up close to someone to kill them with a gun.

I refuse to answer your question because it's simply ridiculous and childish. Gun nuts have to learn about applying analogies and recognize which ones are false. I won't get drawn in to a phony argument.

[Edweird]

90. When did you first feel that law enforcement officers are cowards?

[coriolis]

68. I notice you didn't answer my question

about the machete.

[SuperDuperSocialist]

69. I'm pretty sure that moves them into the "non-law-abiding" catagory.

Just a thought.

[Edweird]

89. But if he had just a rage problem, you would?

So, getting beaten, slashed, strangled, whatever is ok.. as long as you don't get shot? :eyes:

This is very similar to other bizarre statements I have seen....
basically "I'm ok with criminals, violence, gangs and violent nutbags AS LONG AS THEY DON'T HAVE GUNS"

Well, I'm not.

[Edweird]

98. For some reason I doubt your husband is the one with the "rage problem"...

[habitual]

53. that is funny

i conjured up an image of the local news every night:

"And in other news, Stan has once again managed to get through another night without illegally using his firearm. As far as we know..."

next night, same news... :D

[smoogatz]

94. Isn't that the same logic as "the press never reports the good news

coming from Iraq?" Responsible gun owners (and yes, they do exist, though not in quite the same numbers as gun owners in general would like to think) don't make the news because something like 24 times a day (based on an average of 9,000 gun homicides a year) some highly irresponsible gun-owner takes it into his head to go and kill somebody. That's not counting the 50,000 some victims of non-fatal gun assaults that are treated each year for gunshot wounds—an average of 136 per day. That sounds like actually kind of a lot of irresponsible gun owners to me—around 60,000 a year who injure or kill someone in a gun assault.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/abstract/fifc.htm

[zanne]

106. We rarely see the number of people wounded by guns...

This website, http://woundedinamerica.org/ , lets victims of gunshot wounds tell their stories. Not everybody who is wounded by a gunshot recovers, but the statistics rarely show these numbers.

[penguin7]

143. Many are horrible injuries at that.

[Rex]

6. As many as The Duke, but not close to Dirty Harry levels.

Killed a lot of dam, dirty apes!

[Buzz Clik]

7. My problem with Heston was not that he might be a murderer(?) but his stance for the NRA.

He was always at the ready for damage control every time there was a mass killing.

[TomInTib]

15. Exactly. He was a whore, a streetwalker of the lowest sort.

He took their money and had idiots like my Brother-in-Law worrying about Al Gore kicking in their doors and "takin' muh guns fum me".

I hope he is sitting on Falwell's lap in Hell.

Watching St. Ronnie do his FanDance, purple wig, pantyhose and all.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TomInTib]

24. I have a bevy of women who would gladly pay for that privilege.

You may know a few of them.

You sure are brave behind that monitor, HotRod.

Now, you go listen to your KennyG CDs like a good boy.

[defendandprotect]

23. Love it . . .!! and pretty much my feeling about Moses and the NRA . . . !!!

[spoony]

26. What's with the strange hypocrisy

Where when someone they don't like dies, some DUers are quick to condemn them to hell. But then they complain about the religious right condemning people THEY don't like to hell.

[TomInTib]

30. I don't give a damn who the fundies condemn. Most of 'em probably deserved it, anyway.

If there truly is a Hell, then I imagine that I already have a one-way ticket waiting for me at the Will Call window.

And I am going to be really disappointed if there turns out to be no Hell, for I have surely wished Hell on many folks.

No hypocrisy, here.

I just call 'em like I see 'em. I don't care what anyone else thinks. Never have.

[BOHICA06]

29. And you marched with King in '63?

Heston did ....

He was about freedom .... all sotrs of freedoms.

[TomInTib]

31. I don't give a shit what he did in '63.

Hell, Ted Bundy was a sweet kid according to the neighbors.

It was what Heston did over the past 40 years that pisses me off.

And I am an enthusiastic gun owner.

[BOHICA06]

34. What did he do ....

... but talk about and work for freedom? That the Omega Man didn't adhere to the novel's plot is not a character flaw.

[Dreamer Tatum]

42. Makes no sense

You're a self-professed gun nut, yet the only thing anyone can hang on Heston over the last 40 years OTHER than gun rights
is Planet of the Apes. You're just trying to be an iconoclastic internet tough guy...nothing else could possibly explain an
asinine phrase like "I don't give a shit what he did in '63." As though he just showed up at a barbecue where civil rights
were discussed.

[TomInTib]

45. I don't give a shit because I don't give a shit.

I live in a community full of different types of what we refer to as "celebrities". I am friends with many. And most of them think that America's fascination with celebrity status is a hoot.

And it tickles the heck out of me when Americans go all soft when one of their favorites dies.

He was an ACTOR, for God's sake. His whole fucking life was layed out and scripted for him. Including his Civil Rights Movement appearances. The Late, Great Tom Snyder once told me that Heston was as big a fake as he had ever encountered.

And Tom always told it like it was.

[Dreamer Tatum]

46. Oh please

Let me be sure I understand this. You're not impressed with celebrity. You're amused when we little people
"go all soft" when a celebrity dies.

But...um...you resort to name-dropping to denigrate an American icon. Oh no...YOU never get star-struck...that's for the little people.
Gotcha.

In any case, I'm not impressed with punchline-fodder like Tom Snyder claiming that ANYONE is a phony, let alone an American icon like Heston.

Can you please provide me with references substantiating your claim that Heston's civil rights contributions were calculated? Shouldn't
be too hard for someone like yourself, who claims to know everyone.

[TomInTib]

49. Icon? He was a fucking ACTOR.

And not a good one, at that.

And do not accuse me of name-dropping, HotRod.

Tom Snyder was my best friend. And he knew his stuff, cold.

End of fucking discussion.

[Dreamer Tatum]

51. OK, I won't accuse you of name-dropping.

Would take too long to compile all the threads, anyway. Also wouldn't want to offend such a highly-decorated SEAL.

[seriousstan]

58. "highly-decorated SEAL". Now THAT is funny.

I think his x gf was typing when that claim was made.

[michreject]

91. So he said

:rofl: :rofl::rofl: :rofl::rofl: :rofl::rofl: :rofl:

[Morrisons Ghost]

99. Kind of

An odd thing to type about someone! Why do that?:crazy:

[tammywammy]

108. lol

:rofl:

[Jim Sagle]

78. Sleep off those colortinis, guy.

[Balbus]

92. You mean "end of fucking stories" for today...

[BlueFireAnt]

123. Why trash the man's service to his country?

Or am I a Johnny Come Lately, and missing something here?

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[coriolis]

63. Thanks for that, you've confirmed what I thought but wasn't certain about.

Lots of info bits from that guy never quite added up. (I've been watching here for a long time just got around to commenting)
:-)

[greenbriar]

66. oh I see your theme...library lady send you here?

that is their theme for TiT


go away

[zanne]

83. I love it when a gun nut goes "all soft" about an NRA President.

"He was a fundie, and that was his right". I think it's very curious that gun nuts love to champion the Democratic Party until it comes to gun issues--then they become rabid fundie right-wingers. Very curious.

[Recursion]

87. No, we remain real liberals and progressives

And are trying to drag our party, kicking and screaming, to the morally correct side of this issue.

[zanne]

115. Gun violence is your idea of "morality"?

You should try a little introspection, my friend. You're sounding dangerously like James Dobson.

[Recursion]

120. I don't believe legal restrictions on gun ownership will do anything to decrease gun violence

It's not a difficult or complex argument; I don't see why you keep pretending you don't understand it.

Let me put it in bold in case it helps:

I simply do not believe legal restrictions on gun ownership will have reduce violence involving guns.

Got it? Can you dispense with the juvenile "Dmesg is pro-gun-violence" bullshit, or is that all you really can say about it?

[zanne]

124. Of course you don't believe legal restrictions will help.

And nothing will convince you otherwise. However, I plan to keep posting about my position on gun control and calling you out on your argument. Got it?

[Recursion]

131. Well, I could give a shit if you own guns or not, personally

I just ask you to extend me the same courtesy.

[sergeiAK]

133. Except that you didn't call him out on his argument

You said he was pro-violence. Which he has not said.

And you think taking his guns away will prevent someone else from committing murder. And nothing will convince you otherwise. So don't be upset when we call you out on your (non)argument.

[greenbriar]

65. who are you some holier than thou freeper

you belong with rim job or library lady


you certainly don't belong here

[tammywammy]

109. What exactly was wrong with their post?

Why are you calling them a freeper?

[Recursion]

144. Pro-2nd-Amendment progressives are pretty much shat upon...

...if we take that out on anti's on discussion boards, that's unfortunate, but it's a fact of life. Sorry for that.

[Marr]

59. Some would call anti-war activist's use of photos of war casualties

no less exploitative, no less whorish.

I wouldn't agree, and I assume you wouldn't either-- but such is opinion. The fundamentalist's all-or-none, "with us or against us" demonization of those who simply disagree is not something I expect to find on the left. It's sad to see.

[tridim]

8. How many lives did they save?

That's what Chuckles always said they were for.

[otohara]

9. Let My People

die?

I don't think so!

[book_worm]

10. dozens, but that was only in the movies.

[Perry Logan]

13. He didn't have ENOUGH guns. If he'd had enough, I'm sure he would have killed someone.

[zanne]

39. Or he'd have used them for self-defense...

against Alzheimer's.

[irishvet]

14. Mr. Heston

What sick f___ks you are. The man just passed and all you can
do is attack him. Thank GOD for the NRA!!!

[Buzz Clik]

17. Whatever, dude. Welcome to my ignore list.

[irishvet]

21. So

Any other opinon, other than yours, is wrong?

[fascisthunter]

22. Yeah... he put you down real hard

you should take it personal... :rofl:

[spoony]

25. Did you ever take Occam off that list?

You know, from that thread that everyone fell for in GDP?

[Jim Sagle]

79. Psstt...you can take him off yer ignore list now. He just ate a granite pizza.

[Buzz Clik]

84. Thanks. I noticed.

It was good day for the mods.

[Dreamer Tatum]

48. WTF does God have to do with the NRA? nt

[greenbriar]

67. another freeper trying to stir the pot

what is your freeper name?

[JackRiddler]

18. Yes, but how many apes did he kill?

"Get your filthy paws off me, you damned dirty ape!"

[Joey Liberal]

36. Heston (Moses) killed hundreds

If not with guns, then I'm sure he scared many a right winger to death when he was in the Planet of the Apes movies:)...................

[NoPasaran]

37. None. He preferred to use kindness.

[zanne]

38. Gun nuts always claim to be responsible

But when another gun nut shoots up a Wendy's or a school, gun nuts claim that person was a "criminal" or "insane". There's always an excuse. Always.

[coriolis]

44. I'm new here and don't know what some of the terms mean. What exactly is a gun nut?

Is it anybody who owns a gun? Or is it somebody who shoots a person with one...it's confusing.

[CTyankee]

47. Sometimes they are one and the same.

It happened in my family...

[Edweird]

96. It's anybody that doesn't agree with the gun grabbers.

But "gun nut" is polite when you look at some of the other characterizations they throw around.

[The Straight Story]

61. No, an excuse is blaming an inanimate object for what a person does with it

:)

[slackmaster]

135. Gun grabbers always claim to have the high moral ground

:hi:

[ShaneGR]

50. The simple and correct answer is zero...

It's not really as simple as that overall, but Heston was a good man despite his views on guns. Our founding fathers would have LOVED him.

[havocmom]

52. Sir, I take off my hat in salute to you!

:applause:

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

54. Ditto!

:applause:

[ZombieHorde]

55. Two for each bullet he owned.

But he used a knife.

[UTUSN]

56. The POINT is that he PROPAGANDIZED for those who DID!1 n/t

[WinkyDink]

57. The POINT would be: How many were killed, murdered, slaughtered, because CH supported morons'

"right" to own guns?

[The Straight Story]

60. So it would still be the fault of someone else when someone uses a gun in a crime?

yeah, that's the ticket. Heston made me do it.

Has a nice medieval ring to it (satan made me do it...) :)

[coriolis]

64. Well, we probably should be glad morons also have the right to free speech.

...

[SuperDuperSocialist]

71. You don't need to apostrophize the word "Right" when it's in the first 10. n/t

.

[Fumesucker]

70. Most of those that are into guns

Have heard the phrase "An armed society is a polite society".

The phrase comes from Heinlein's novel "Beyond This Horizon".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beyond_This_Horizon

What virtually no one knows is that in another, later, Heinlein novel "Tunnel in the Sky", he has a survival instructor advise a student not to take a firearm with him on a wilderness survival test.

The reason being that having a gun "will make you stand and fight when you really should be running away".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_in_the_Sky

A gun does not make you bulletproof, but it often will make you act as if you are. I've seen this behavior enough times to become fairly well convinced that Heinlein was right, many times you are safer without a gun than with.

The problem with guns in our modern society is that virtually everyone has gleaned their knowledge of guns and gunplay from Hollywood. We have all seen guns used so many times in movies and on TV that we have absorbed those lessons almost into our genetic structure and erasing those false lessons takes more than a few trips to the firing range.

[Skittles]

72. he whored for the gun industry

for that he can rot in hell

[The Straight Story]

74. Uh, what is the 'gun industry'? Is it the people making guns, or people making reloading dies?

etc and so on.

I used to work for a company that made reloading dies for 'gun nuts' - they were people who enjoyed their guns and loved making their own ammo for sport shooting and such. I cannot recall any of them killing anyone or even shooting at anyone (although, to be fair, I do recall a good friend of ours dying at 12 years old while shooting an electric 50bmg that came off its mounts and crushed her skull - an accident. It still bothers me to this day, but there was nothing intentional about it).

I have been around many people, and sold reloading dies to many others across the world (South Africa, Australia, England, Italy, and Germany) who own guns and use them responsibly. That some don't is not the fault of those that do.

Maybe the idea should be to keep guns out of the hands of people who are on drugs, have mental issues, etc - and that is best handled by us having better health care in the US.

[Skittles]

75. I'm not even going to bother

keep waving your fucking guns, I DON'T FUCKING CARE

[The Straight Story]

76. I am not waving guns, I don't even own one at this time

But those that I do know or have known are not out using them to harm others.

My 14yr old nephew owns a bunch of guns (oh, he is a fundie as well, so is his mom - my sister) and he would not think about hurting others with his guns or anything else. He has a deep respect for what guns can do.

Some people fear guns, some fear people who have serious issues.

The problem is not guns, it is people.

[Raejeanowl]

73. This Is How I Choose To Remember Him

Charlton Heston told an anecdote on the Tonight Show back in the early 80s in response to a question from host Johnny Carson about his most memorable encounters with the public.

Heston mentioned having recently boarded an elevator at a hotel with a "little redhead" who was gaping up at him, astonished to see Moses, Ben Hur, Marc Antony, El Cid, Sir Thomas More-or whatever august big-screen persona she remembered, up close and personal.

She momentarily pulled herself together, gulped, smiled, and blurted out in her brightest, most nasal intonation, while giving him a nonchalant hand wave, "Hiya, Chuckie baby!!!"

The "little redhead" was a former co-worker of mine (hiya yourself, Linda baby, wherever you are).

And the story, understandably, brought the house down and Johnny to helpless tears of laughter.

[formercia]

80. Heston was an Actor

Actors act. Acting, for the most part, is utter bullshit.

Why do Americans treat actors as if their acting were real exploits? I still can't comprehend the psychology.

[iamthebandfanman]

86. my first thought when i heard about heston :

"hey, any of you guys got a crowbar? I got some prying to do."

[proud2BlibKansan]

88. How many people who DID kill people were encouraged by him to own guns?

How many of those people should NOT have owned guns?

That is the more relevant question.

[Recursion]

121. When did he ever encourage anyone to buy a gun?

I'd love to see that.

Maybe you are saying that simply by being a frontman for the NRA he was "encouraging" gun ownership? I'm not aware of the NRA having any programs whose aim is to increase the rate of gun ownership in the US; could you point me to what you're talking about?

[proud2BlibKansan]

126. The NRA doesn't promote gun ownership?

That seems odd since gun owners are the lifeblood of the organization. :shrug:

[Recursion]

128. I'm just asking for an example

Be so good as to provide one, please

[proud2BlibKansan]

136. Common sense tells us that if an organization is made up of gun owners,

more gun owners would benefit that organization. Kind of like labor unions. Do they promote union membership?

I also suspect you are not really this obtuse.

[Recursion]

137. So give me an example of the NRA trying to expand gun ownership

Really, it should be simple by your argument.

[proud2BlibKansan]

142. Sure as soon as you prove the pope is Catholic

[Recursion]

145. OK

ex cathedra:

All Christians, particularly this See, are members of the catholic and orthodox Church.
Gregory the Great.

Your turn.

[smoogatz]

95. The better question is: how many Republicans did he help get elected?

Answer: a big, stinkin', steamin' shitload, including Bush and Cheney, both times. Thanks, Chuck!

[LanternWaste]

97. I imagine that as wealthy as he is

I imagine that as wealthy as he is, his lawyers would have that type of information buried pretty securely and deep.

Heck, if I had the money he had, I wouldn't even use my own firearms-- I'd simply hire someone to do the killing for me.

[guitar man]

100. none that I know of

...but he fucked a whole bunch of dudes up when he slammed the Red Sea shut on them.:D

[benEzra]

147. (SNORT!) Dude, that was funny! (n/t)

[booley]

101. Enjoying your straw man?

Let me guess, since not everyone who has owned a gun has killed with them, guns aren't dangerous and our incredibly high gun violence in this country is meaningless.

Blah blah blah, yadda yadda...

[harun]

132. I think she is trying to demonstrate how silly it is for one to claim

they need guns because of all the people that attack them and break in to their houses. Which is of course ludicrous.

I am all for people owning as many guns as they want but to use as the primary argument for them to fend off all the mobs of looters is a bit weak.

[booley]

148. OK

if that is the case that is a bit more reasonable.

Though that isn't how I was reading it.

[KansDem]

102. self-delete

too inflammatory...

[ismnotwasm]

103. I have no idea.

Outside of movies that is. Dumb question.

[dogday]

105. How many people did he encourage to own guns and out of

those, how many killed other people? Now those stats would be interesting... :hi:

[Xenotime]

107. And, can we now pry them from his cold dead hands?

[FredScuttle]

119. This guy only owned one gun. How many people did he kill?

Oh, wait....

[The Straight Story]

139. Hmmm, so it is not the gun but the owner who is the problem?

With that I do indeed agree.

[walldude]

125. I don't know.. but he did a number on those

Egyptians, and the apes too!

What's the line? "I've killed more people than Cecil B. DeMille!"

[mwb970]

127. Other than Vince Foster? /nt

[Bucky]

129. deleted

deleted.

Didn't realize he was dead until just now.

[jeffrey_X]

130. I own some weed, but have never gotten high.

eom

[The Straight Story]

141. And I, for one, think you should have the right to own that weed

and to share it with me if you want to....

[Canuckistanian]

138. Has anyone ever excavated his crawl space?

Hmmph. Didn't think so.

[notesdev]

140. A story

There was a story about a volunteer program to train youngsters how to handle rifles. A female reporter, interviewing the person in charge of the program was horrified, asking "Aren't you equipping them to become killers?"

The man answered, "Well, you're equipped to be a whore, but you aren't one, are you?"

That was the end of the conversation.

[ileus]

146. 0 the same # as 99.9% of legal firearm owners