I HATE BANKS!!!!

[Holly_Hobby]

I received a big check from my attorney today for injuries sustained in a car accident. I took the check to the bank it was drawn on and had them give me a Cashier's check, which is supposed to be as good as cash.

I took the Cashier's check to my credit union. I asked for 1/3 of it on another Cashier's check to pay off our mortgage. They called the bank and confirmed the check, then, they told me THE FUNDS ARE ON HOLD FOR 11 DAYS!

We've been with the same Credit union for 14 years and not even ONE bounced check. We have about half that amount in our savings!

I asked the manager if they were going to pay interest to me for using my money for 11 days, and reimburse me for the extra mortgage interest, since it's compounded daily. Yeah, right. GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

Thanks for letting me rant. Was there a better way to handle it?

[Lerkfish]

1. its so they can kite the interest themselves.

They make interest for themselves on your money before they give it to you.

[Sal Minella]

19. It's called "the float" and banks depend on it.

[lonestarnot]

2. YES!

Go up the fucking chain of command re verified funds and get your fucking money! TODAY!

[Holly_Hobby]

5. The teller talked to the Veep

It was his decision. Do you think I should call the Prez tomorrow? Thanks.

[lonestarnot]

11. Hell yeah! The funds were verified!

[Donnachaidh]

15. I certainly would -- OR something better

Call your local TV station and see if they have a consumer reporter who might take an interest in airing your story. Hell, you were in a car wreck and now the BANKS are trying to fleece you too? That's certainly a consumer interest story.

So if you talk to the president and they give you grief you can mention you are going to call such and such at the station and let them tell your story to the public. :evilgrin:

[Holly_Hobby]

17. Excellent suggestion, thanks n/t

[datasuspect]

3. cash

[Holly_Hobby]

7. 20 day hold on cash! n/t

[Liberal Gramma]

27. absolutely illegal

Can't hold funds on cash. Not legal.

[Holly_Hobby]

35. Wow, who do I report them to? Thanks. n/t

[Liberal Gramma]

55. That I don't know

and in any case, it didn't happen to you, did it? But the fact that they have that as a policy means they don't understand the law as it applies to negotiable instruments.

[spanone]

4. they used to be service friendly....not anymore...they don't even care

[JuniperLea]

6. I've been in that situation before...

You could go to the bank on which that check is drawn and get cash... that shakes them up;) When confronted with a large cash withdrawal, banks magically find other ways to do things.

[Holly_Hobby]

9. I wish I would have thought of that first n/t

[JuniperLea]

14. Call everyone up the ladder...

This is a rip off! They just want to make interest off your check for a few days... tell them you are onto them too. A cashiers check should be honored!

I hope you get to them!

[grasswire]

8. the bank is holding it?

Or the credit union?

[Holly_Hobby]

10. The credit union where we have our account is holding it n/t

[lonestarnot]

16. I am surprised you are being treated that way at the credit union.

[KansDem]

12. I'm surprised they didn't ask you for your thumbprint...

...they didn't, did they?

[Holly_Hobby]

18. No thumbprint, so that tells me they know who I am n/t

[notadmblnd]

13. I dont know if it would have worked for you, but....

When I deposit large a check from my annuities into my checking account. I go to the ATM. If I go into the bank to make the deposit, then they put a hold on it. If I deposit through the ATM, it is available the next day. I've been depositing my check like this for the past couple of years, it never fails.

Go figure:shrug:

[Holly_Hobby]

20. Thanks for the tip

The other half of the settlement is due in two weeks, I'll try it then.

[elizfeelinggreat]

29. I suggest when you get the next check

you tell them you will take that second cashier's check to another bank, which will certainly give you have access to your funds immediately - then watch them change their tune or walk out the door. :) Either way you'll be better off.

Actually, this might be the best leverage to get them to change their tune on the money they're holding now. Tell them that's what you plan to do with your next settlement check since they did this to you and see if they'll release it right away.

[stellanoir]

21. Sorry you had to deal with that.

Pain in the butt.

When I lived in CA they would hold the funds on out of state checks for 10 days.

There was no way they took that long to process.

Over the weekend I got a letter from my bank saying that I couldn't have more than 6 transactions over the course of a month without sanctions.

Who's money is it anyway ???

I don't think you could have handled it any better. You are right.

There is no way they should be holding those funds.

Ughhh

Glad you got part of this resolved though.

:hug:

[Holly_Hobby]

23. Is mercury retro? :)

:hi:

[stellanoir]

36. Not until May 9th.

We're between the stations of Pluto and Saturn. Mars just went over the point at which went retro in November though. Strange days for sure.

You provocateur you. Inciting me to do astro rap in GD could get me demoted once again. LOL

[Holly_Hobby]

39. Oh I'm sorry. I didn't know. I won't do it again. :) n/t

[stellanoir]

42. Not to worry at all.

If it's not in the OP, it's rarely problematic or perhaps even detected.

I could tell you some really funny stories about other incidents.

You can ask me anything anytime through our cozy little forum or through PM's though.

Hope you are feeling a bit more relieved.

best

[Holly_Hobby]

44. I'm boiling mad today at the credit union

I'm off for a margarita or two or three. :)

[stellanoir]

48. Call me later if you're so inclined.

It could be thoroughly entertaining. LOL

[Holly_Hobby]

50. LOL, I'll probably take it out on my husband as usual n/t

[Raven]

22. Have the funds wired?

I never deal with large amounts of money in check form anymore. As far as I know, most financial institutions have wiring capacity and most can receive wired funds. When I was practing law (not that long ago)once the funds hit, they were good funds and could be drawn upon. Wires that go out before 2 pm usually hit the same day.

[Holly_Hobby]

24. The attorney said to take the check to his bank,

and get a cashier's check, which is as good as cash. I think I'll have him send my credit union a letter. Even my mortgage company said a cashier's check would post to my account the same day they received it!

[Raven]

30. I agree. All I can think of is that the lawyer's check was an

"Attorney Clients' Fund" check and sometimes those checks don't have $ behind them for a day or so. When you sell a house and the buyers are getting a mortgage you usually get a lawyers check for the sales proceeds but there is often no money in the account because the mortgage is being immediately sold on the secondary market and the money won't come in for a day or two. This was a common practice that I hated and would not participate in but it happened often. Maybe that is what spooked the bank.

[Holly_Hobby]

37. Nope. This bank does this all the time for the attorney's clients

I had no problem at the bank, they verified the funds in the attorney's account, gave me a cashier's check for no charge and wished me luck. It was my credit union that's holding the funds.

[Gormy Cuss]

45. If the check is for more than $5000, they can hold it under one of the exceptions in the regulations

Usually funds must be available the next business day when the instrument is a verified cashier's check, but there are exceptions that can be invoked. See this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expedited_Funds_Availability_Act

for a brief explanation.

[Holly_Hobby]

53. The only thing that applies is that they think it's

fraudulent and hence the 11 day hold. Which makes no sense because they verified the funds with the teller at the bank that issued the cashier's check. She verified the funds were available in the attorney's account. BTW, the attorney I used is the very best trial lawyer in the area, and he's been in business for over 40 years. He's well known. All of the financial transactions were local.

[Warpy]

25. This is called ripping off the customers.

Yes, a certified check is as good as cash. Your bank has absolutely no grounds for holding the money for 11 days of supposed float, something that no longer exists since everything is done electronically overnight.

This is just a way to earn interest on YOUR money, while you are stuck for the interes you're paying on your house.

Sadly, there is nothing you can do about it until and unless Congress gets around to re regulating these bastards so they can't keep ripping us off.

[Liberal Gramma]

26. Former banker here

I don't think it's legal to hold funds on a cashier's check, nor on any US government check, wire transfer, or check drawn on the same bank. I worked for a time for a S&L that wasn't familiar with the UCC code, your credit union may also be unaware of it.

[MindPilot]

31. I think you are right.

Last year my tax refund was over $10,000. When I went to deposit the check I asked if there would be a hold, and the teller said "no hold on a government check; you money is available right now."

[high density]

46. Most good banks have a large table of bank routing numbers that get cleared immediately

The banks know the US Treasury is certainly not going to bounce a check, nor is a USPS money order, etc.

[BuyingThyme]

32. I don't think a cashier's check is different from any other check.

It just sounds good.

[Liberal Gramma]

38. It is different

because it's guaranteed funds. A stop payment can be placed on a cashier's check, but only if it's lost and then the person who places it has to post a bond to cover any loss to the bank. The credit union could have called the issuing bank to see that it's a genuine cashier's check, then there is no reason for a hold at all. The only risk is if it's a forgery.

[Holly_Hobby]

41. The credit union DID call the bank and verified it's genuine

They know me at the credit union, by name. We've been there for 14 years. There's no chance they think it's a forgery....wouldn't the issuing bank know they just issued it? Thanks so much.

[Liberal Gramma]

52. Here's the applicable code

Expedited Funds Availability Act
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
The Expedited Funds Availability Act (EFA or EFAA) was enacted in 1987 by the United States Congress for the purpose of standardizing hold periods on deposits made to commercial banks and to regulate institutions' use of deposit holds. It is also referred to as Regulation CC or Reg CC, after the Federal Reserve regulation that implements the act. The law is codified in Title 12, Chapter 40 of the US Code and Title 12, Part 229 of the Code of Federal Regulations<1>.







Disclosure
Financial institutions must disclose their hold policies to all account holders, and make the policy available in written form upon request by any customer. It must also be provided at the time of opening of all new accounts.

Additional disclosures are required on deposit slips, at ATMs, and when the policy is changed in any way.


Types of Holds
Regulation CC stipulates four types of holds that a bank may place on a check deposit at its discretion. Each has its own qualifications and it is legal for the bank to place any type where the requirements are met, although bank policy may instruct that the type of hold placed be the one that holds the most funds the longest that can be applied legally.

Furthermore, each type of hold has varying availability schedules based on whether the check is local or non-local. This status is determined by the federal reserve bank referenced by the routing number. In all federal reserve districts, save Kansas City and St. Louis, the check must be drawn from the same federal reserve district as the depository institution. In banks in either the Kansas City or St. Louis districts, either is considered local.

Hold Type Necessary Requirements Local Availability Non-Local Availability
Statutory No other hold applies, can be placed almost anytime. $100 1st Business Day Following Deposit, Remainder 2nd Business Day $100 1st Business Day Following Deposit, 5th Business Day
Large Deposit Aggregate total of checks deposited into one account on one business day is greater than $5000.00. $100 1st Business Day Following Deposit, $4900 2nd Business Day, Remainder 5th Business Day $100 1st Business Day Following Deposit, $4900 5th Business Day, Remainder 9th Business Day
New Account The account being deposited into has been open for less than 30 days. 9th Business Day 9th Business Day
Exception Account has been overdrawn for six or more business days of the previous six months. (NSF Hold)
Account has been overdrawn for two or more business days in excess of $5000 in the previous six months. (NSF Hold)
The depository bank has reason to doubt the check is good. (The paying bank indicates the check will not clear, is suspected to be fraudulent, or is either postdated or staledated.)
The item being deposited is a legal copy of an item previously returned for NSF (an IRD).
Item is accepted for deposit during a power outage or computer failure. (Extremely Rare)
7th Business Day 11th Business Day

There are a few exceptions to these guidelines that are important to note. If an account owner is depositing into an account that does not qualify for the exception hold but also owns another account that does qualify, then the Exception NSF Hold can be placed. In the same manner, if an account owner is depositing into an account that has been open for less than 30 days but owns another account that has been open greater than 30 days, the New Account Hold cannot be legally placed.

There are certain items that present less risk to financial institutions and thus are subject to expedited availability under the stipulations of Regulation CC. The following items must have the first $5000 available for the Statutory, Large Deposit and New Account Hold by the first business day following the deposit:

Cashier's checks*, Certified Checks, or Teller's Checks**;
Postal money orders;
US Treasury checks;
Federal Reserve Home Loan checks;
Any check issued by a state, city, county, or other municipality;
Any check drawn from another account at the depository institution.
For each of these items, the item must be presented for deposit into the payee's account for it to receive expedited fund availability. When one of these checks is presented for deposit into a third party account, it loses its preferential treatment.

*Regulation CC defines a Cashier's Check only as a check that is issued by a bank, drawn on that same bank, is a direct liability of the bank, and signed by one or more officers of that bank. "Official Checks" or "Bank Checks" do not always qualify as Cashier's Checks as defined by Regulation CC.

**A Teller's Check may only be issued by a Federal Credit Union and must meet the above requirements for a Cashier's Check with the exception that it must be drawn off that credit union's depository account at a federal bank.


Payment of interest
According to the regulation, interest-bearing accounts shall receive earnings from funds from the time they are collected by the depositary institution, regardless of hold lengths.


Enforcement
Under the act, enforcement is divided by the type of institution, respective to each type's mandated oversight authority:

For national banks, and federal branches and agencies of foreign banks, the act is enforced by the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency;
For members of the Federal Reserve System who are not national banks, and for offices, branches, and agencies of foreign banks located in the United States (who are not federal branches and agencies of foreign banks), the provisions are enforced by the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve;
In the case of banks insured by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation who are not members of the Federal Reserve System, and insured state branches of foreign banks, enforcement falls to the Board of Directors of the FDIC;
The Director of the Office of Thrift Supervision is responsible for enforcing the provisions of the act in the case of savings associations whose deposits are insured by the FDIC;
Federal credit unions or credit unions insured by the National Credit Union Share Insurance Fund are subject to enforcement of the act by the National Credit Union Administration Board.
Awards for damages are limited under the regulation, including not more than $1000 in addition to actual damages for individual actions, and not more than the lesser of $500,000 or 1% of the net worth of the bank, in addition to actual damages, for class actions.

[Liberal Gramma]

54. If they called the bank, there's no reason for them to hold the funds

In any case, you can call the bank in a couple of days to find out if the check has been paid (did you keep a photocopy?) and if it has been paid, the credit union MUST release the hold. In any case, you should receive interest on the money from the time they received the funds from the paying bank, which could be two or three days but shouldn't be longer.

[dysfunctional press]

28. if your mortgage has a higher interest rate than your savings pays...

then you've been losing money on the money in your savings account that could have gone to pay off more of the mortgage.

[Holly_Hobby]

43. True. My husband wanted to wait to pay off the house until

this money came in.

[iamalevi2]

33. What is Fair?

Okay, I'll be right up front. I work for a small independent community bank, and the attitude with smaller community banks if far different than with large banks that don't care. However your beef here is with the credit union.

Any "financial" institution placing a hold longer than 3 to 5 "business days" is outrageous. I understand why the credit union placed a hold, but not why 10 days. They basically have a worthless piece of paper in their hands if the check is returned, and this return process may take 5 business days depending on where the check is drawn on. If you had monies on deposit in another account though, they could have simply "held" that instead of the check.

Your best bet is to take a cashier checks directly to the bank it's drawn on. They "have" to honor it after you've been identified because the funds are on a bank official check, not a personal check, therefore these funds are guarantee by the bank issuing the check unless fraud is suspected.

Two last notes though because I"m on a roll. Credit unions do not pay taxes, is that fair? Bank do, and so do their stockholders, and so do you and I.

And second, I sick of all the TV adds talking about how great credit unions are over banks. Have you seen the one where a man states, "What are my chances of getting a loan through my bank if I was unemployed, slim to none!". Would you "lend" money to someone that couldn't pay you back? If credit unions are lending "your" money to people that can't pay them back, I strongly suggest you take your account elsewhere!

[Holly_Hobby]

47. So, for future reference for the next check,

I take the attorney's check to the bank it's drawn on, present my ID and ask for a cashier's check and then ask for cash, or??? The problem was went I took the cashier's check to my credit union, as I don't have an account at the attorney's bank. I'm confused.... thanks.

[iamalevi2]

56. Your identity!

Obviously proving your identity to any institution where you're not known is going to be a problem. The best thing to do is have good identification, and ask the teller/manager to contact the bank customer who purchase the money order to ID you if need be, by phone for further proof.

Since I've been out of the operation section and in lending for the last 15 years, I just thought of something else, though I could be wrong. Regg CC governs "hold" times. If a check (any check) is over $5,000, I believe a financial instituion can place a hold for any amount of time on the amount "over $5,000." Of course then we get back to "what is reasonable".

[Holly_Hobby]

57. So, with the next check, all I need to do is ask for multiple cashier's

checks UNDER $5,000? Thanks.

[MiniMe]

34. Could this have anything to do with homeland security?

Obviously you are laundering terrorist money by paying off your mortgage. :sarcasm:

[Holly_Hobby]

49. Yeah, Chase Manhattan ARE terrorists

I discovered by accident 13 years into a 15 year mortgage that they were charging us less interest than the paperwork said. So I called them and told them to straighten it out.

They sent me a demand letter for $17,000 due immediately and placed the house in foreclosure. I had 60 days to come up with it, which we did, and saved our house.

I should have known better and kept my mouth shut.

[high density]

40. I worked for a bank

And we had special deposit slips that people could request that would provide immediate availability of the funds. They could only be used for cashiers checks and similar items (e.g. checks drawn on a lawyer's escrow account.) An 11 day hold is way outside normal and may be illegal. Find another credit union or bank.

[BadgerLaw2010]

51. That may be illegal. Call up your attorney again.

[Xenotime]

58. This will piss you off even more..

They are making money on that check they are holding. All the more reason to do away with the current system.

[Holly_Hobby]

59. I'm so pissed off, nothing could make me worse

I'm sending a demand letter to the credit union tomorrow via certified mail to either put up (show me the regulation) or shut up (give me the money).

They've messed with the wrong person. I'm filing a formal complaint with their regulatory agency.

I asked the teller rather loudly if they would pay interest for using my money for 11 days for no good reason. I then told her I knew it wasn't her fault, and she should look for someplace reputable to work.