Biofuels: Not all they're cracked up to be?

[Brigid]

Could it be that biofuels are doing more harm than good? Interesting article in TIME magazine:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1725975,00.html

[mike_c]

1. "...given that researchers have ignored it until now...."

Problem is, we haven't. Ecologists have been talking about the problems of biofuels for years. That message has been largely ignored because of massive public pressure to keep the cheap and abundant energy tap open at full flow, the failure of political leadership to convey the unpopular truth to their constituencies, and investors eager to jump on the next big gravy train and get their greed on before the turd starts to stink.

[Chemical Bill]

12. Funny, I ran on Gasahol during Carter's term...

and heard no complaints. All of the anti biofuel hype is long on passion and short on facts. Like the fact that more corn goes to feed cattle than to feed people. Or the fact that high fructose corn syrup in soda is the first food we would run out of if ethanol were cutting off our food supply. I can live without HFCS.

Bill

[sam sarrha]

2. the one they chose ..Corn.. was just to raise prices,, Hemp oil is what we should use, take it out

of the hands of the corporations

[mike_c]

3. the result would be exactly the same....

You cannot grow enough hemp-- not on this planet-- to replace even a reasonable fraction of the annual fossil fuel energy budget of humans. It doesn't matter which crop you choose. If we use hemp, farmers will simply convert food production to hemp oil production, continue to clear land for planting more hemp, and so on. Biofuels are simply not the answer. It's a comforting fairytale to think that fossil fuels might be replaced, or even just significantly augmented, with "green energy." That is an ecological disaster that will be added onto the damage already being done by global climate change fueled by carbon emissions from fossil fuels and deforestation.

We cannot produce enough fuel to really matter and still have any land producing food to eat. Not with the photosynthesizers we have now, at any rate, and don't even get me STARTED on the dangers of engineering a super carbon fixer that could outcompete everything else on Earth.

[sam sarrha]

6. in el paso they are getting 1000+ gal pr acre on algae oil.. feeding it with CO2 from industry

[mike_c]

7. that system looks like it might be the most efficient possible with current tech...

...and organisms. However, there are lots of problems with algal bioreactors that will likely keep them a marginal source for years to come, if they ever really succeed, and even then you still have the problems with land use conversions, translocating water to arid regions (or diverting it from already strained human consumption), nutrient enrichment, and the very real dangers of being tempted to make algae better at converting sunlight into biomass. A thousand gallons of oil is 23 barrels per acre at significantly higher production cost than fossil fuel and at MUCH lower energy density. Crude petroleum is much more than just vegetable oil.

CO₂ from industry? Whatever for? Carbon is not limiting in any way! Now nitrogen is another matter because plants cannot utilize N₂ directly.

This has all been hashed out here before, including comparisons of the energy yield even the most wildly optimistic proponants of algal bioreactors hope to achieve and actual consumption under the current energy budget. I think small scale niche economies could be run that way, especially if they can manage to be semi-closed systems and just not consume more energy than they can produce, whatever the consequences, but I'm just not hopeful.

[Chemical Bill]

14. I can tell you're not hopeful.

That is evident in the way you push for the status quo. Did the petroleum industry get just as much negative press from the whale oil industry? I disagree with your assumptions, but since "This has all been hashed out here before", there's no use im my inputting anything.

Bill

[Chemical Bill]

13. OK, I'm convinced...

I'll run my car on dead Iraqis. :sarcasm:

When we can easily and cheaply buy an electric car that runs on solar cells, then you can preach, but it might be better to help others get off the oil habit than to effectively push for more oil wars.

Bill

[chieftain]

4. I've always been dubious about the proposition of taking food

away from feeding people so it can be pumped into SUV's.

[Johonny]

5. I'm pretty sure

people are talking about using the parts of the plant not used for food and converting that to biofuel. Either way the future is going to require less people, using energy more efficiently for any "fuel" system to work.

[NNN0LHI]

8. Why does the use of ethanol make wheat prices go up?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080325203348AA7KKcT

Why does the use of ethanol make wheat prices go up?

I heard that since people have begun using ethanol as fuel for their car it has made the price of wheat go up. Why is this?


i think the reason is as follows: with ethanol being used as fuel, the price of corn will go up. because of this some farmers will start farming corn rather than other crops so they will make the extra money. with less ppl farming wheat, there will be a smaller supply, therefore the price raises


This too:

http://www.ethanolproducer.com/article.jsp?article_id=2387

Husky opens wheat-based ethanol plant in western Canada

The largest ethanol plant in western Canada is now in operation. Husky Energy’s 130 million-liter-per-year (34 MMgy) wheat-to-ethanol plant in Saskatchewan is producing ethanol.

The ceremonial grand opening was held the final week of September in Lloydminster, Saskatchewan. The plant is in the midst of start-up and producing ethanol, according to Graham White, Husky’s senior communications advisor. Full operation is expected later this month.

The grand opening was attended by Saskatchewan Premier Lorne Calvert. The Lloydminster plant is expected to help the province reach its goal of having 7.5 percent ethanol-blended gasoline. “This project is a world-class example of the growing value of biofuels and the important role cleaner burning fuels such as ethanol can play,” Calvert said. “Husky has shown confidence in the Saskatchewan economy with its major investment in this plant and leadership in making these fuels increasingly available to the public. We are proud to have created a climate in our province in which ethanol development and such investments occur.”

Husky’s plant will use 13 million bushels of wheat annually as feedstock, although it is capable of using corn, according to White.

[mike_c]

10. it works just like the article describes for soybeans....

eom

[Chemical Bill]

15. Actually...

i think the reason is as follows: with ethanol being used as fuel, the price of corn will go up. because of this some farmers will start farming corn rather than other crops so they will make the extra money. with less ppl farming wheat, there will be a smaller supply, therefore the price raises

WENATCHEE — Washington farmers will plant a lot more spring wheat this season to cash in on high wheat prices and will grow fewer fields of corn, hay, beans and other crops, according to National Agricultural Statistics Service survey released last week.

http://wenatcheeworld.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080407/BIZ01/485892529/1001

I saw a similar article within the last few weeks that was national in scope, but I found this one quickly. I also saw the same thing for California and Minnesota in a quick google search.

Bill

[Mithreal]

9. Discussion needs to be focused on energy rather than biofuels

Corn based biofuel requires more oil to produce than it replaces. Plus it takes food away from people. We need to cut out the middlemen trying to sell us on fuels and focus on energy. I want to be able to plug in my car and have cleaner air near my home and going to the pump is no fun. Gotta see "Who killed the electric car?" if you haven't already.

http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/

[Chemical Bill]

11. Didn't Time say that Saddam was going to kill us???

I frankly didn't get passed the word Brazil, because I know that my biofuel comes from the US. Wake up, people, big oil wants to run your car forever.

Bill

[NNN0LHI]

16. Actually

It was the NYTimes and the LATimes that said that.

Don