Woman describes ‘escape’ from polygamy

[Contrary1]

Here's a little more info for those who think the government should have been left this group alone:

She left the same sect that 534 women, children were freed from in Texas

"A polygamous community in Texas that follows the teaching of The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints practices pedophilia, torture and child abuse under the guise of a religion, according to a woman who escaped the sect with her eight children five years ago.

“I think it’s a form of pedophilia hiding behind a religion as a protection,” Carolyn Jessop told TODAY’s Matt Lauer from Salt Lake City on Tuesday. “There’s just a desire to control and manipulate and torture people, and religion is just used as the cover.”

<snip>

“Everything you did was monitored and controlled and everybody reported on everyone else,” she said. “It was a police state. You were not allowed to make decisions in your life. I had no power over my life or the lives of my children. It was a terrible way to live.”

The alleged control began in infancy.

“The method he would use with infants was a form of water torture,” Jessop said of her former husband. “He would spank the baby until it was screaming out of control, and then he would hold the baby faceup under a tap of running water so it couldn’t breathe. He would do this repeatedly. Sometimes, it would go on for an hour, until the baby was so exhausted it couldn’t cry anymore. This method he called ‘breaking them.’”

Video and more: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24009286/

[mainegreen]

1. If it's true that he did that to children, put him in a cell 5x2 and never let him out, ever.

There is no reason to reform or treat monsters like that.

Hell, if it were possible to read minds and guarantee guilt of crimes like that, I'd say execute him.

People who do that to infants and children deserve to die.

[Warpy]

4. We all deserve to die because we're all going to do it.

This guy belongs in a Supermax. Even fellow prisoners should be protected from this psychopath.

He deserves a long life in total isolation.

[roguevalley]

19. he did that because it turned him on. he's a sexual sadist.

[nichomachus]

20. No -- it's just religion at work

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from a religious conviction."

Blaise Pascal

[MindPilot]

26. Right. Where ever you find this kind of horror, religion is right there.

Does anyone think those people would torture infants if they weren't believers?

[siligut]

44. Thank you for the quote.

I have searched for a way to express this. Thank you.

[roguevalley]

45. no. he did it because he's a sexual sadist. he is using religion as

a window dressing but quote to me from any religious text how this is part of religious practice. I don't care who you quote. This isn't religion. I wish people would stop blaming religion for the demented shit of those who pose as religious but are just fuckers.

[shance]

2. Polygamy - funny term for government involved sex trafficking

n/t

[RaleighNCDUer]

5. Nothing wrong with polygamy

as a group marriage between consenting adults. But the first time the group takes in one minor, or any person against her will, the entire fucking group should be in jail.

[leftynyc]

18. Polygamy is against the law

That you don't think there is anything wrong with it is irrelevant.

[RaleighNCDUer]

35. So is gay marriage.

Does that mean that my sister and her husband/wife (I still don't know how to refer to her partner) belong in jail? You are conflating polygamy with the abuse. There are tens of thousands of goup marriages in this country - both within and outside the LDS - and they work just fine without coercion of children.

This is a cult of abuse, and you are incorrect to say that it is polygamy that is the root cause of it.

[leftynyc]

36. I merely pointed out it's against the law

in every state in this country. Millions also smoke pot - doesn't make it legal. I'm not conflating anything and the only judgment I'm making is that it's illegal - you want to minimize it, knock yourself out. And how exactly are your sister and her partner (that's the word my married gay friends use) breaking any laws? What state are they in and have they done anything illegal because it's not illegal in some states and I don't think you can be arrested for it in the states it's not legal in - those states merely don't recognize it.

[mondo joe]

38. Positions on even illegal things are not "irrelevant". This is a discussion board, and

though it has eluded you we offer many positions on many matters, even siding with what is currently not legal.

[leftynyc]

40. Saying there is nothing wrong with

polygamy is not correct. It is currently against the law in every state. Saying you don't agree with the law is something else entirely. There are many things are are against the law that shouldn't be but that doesn't mean you don't risk getting fined or imprisoned if you get caught. You're taking the risk.

[mondo joe]

41. True if you construe"wrong" to be an exclusively legal reference.

I do not. "Wrong" is often used to reference ethics, as in this case.

[leftynyc]

43. I don't use the word wrong

exclusively in a legal sense but partly. I consider pot to be a better drug of choice over alcohol for recreational use but it's still wrong as it's illegal.

My biggest problem with polygamy is the children. As it's not a legal set up (and I'm making the assumption that all of these issues have not been worked out with legal contracts), there are going to be problems in terms of insurance, inheritance, etc. There will only be ONE legal wife and therefore only the children from that will have the legal rights given to children of a legal marriage. They will also presumably have to lie about their home life as there will always be some asshole who will turn them into the police or child services.

The issue with this cult is underage marriage, child molestation and the treatment of the women. I've also read that as soon as boys turn 16, they are thrown out and because of the sheltered lives that have led, are uniquely unequiped to deal with life outside. That this is done so the older men don't have competition makes me sick.

[tavalon]

32. Thank you!

It's not about the polygamy, it's about the incest, child abuse and just overall abuse.

[mondo joe]

39. Agreed. What consenting adults choose, however infrequently, should not be conflated with

molesting children, or enslaving people.

[SoCalDem]

42. The problem is this..

There are almost always children resulting from those "marriages"..

I have NO problem with a bunch of adults deciding to share their lives and do whatever...BUT

when they start procreating and having a whole slew of "Aunt-Mommies" (it's almost always 1 rooster & many hens), and raising kids in that atmosphere, it's not at all "okay"..

If you want to talk about welfare fraud..look no further..

ONE official wife is the legal one, and all the children that result from the "sister-wives" become eligible for WIC, AFDC, Medicaid, reduced school lunch (if they even get to go to school)..these kids are all "out-of-wedlock" kids.
.. many with teen-Moms.

People wonder how on earth they can afford those huge families?? That's how. Complaining about the "illeeeeeegals" who mooch off the system , but looking away when "white people" do it is a big problem for many states..

[Quantess]

3. Look at this video:

http://www.youtube.com/v/gI6pBftroEc&hl=en

ceriwden posted it in another thread.

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

10. thanks for the link

It was very chilling watching that. Especially liked the last line about liberating women in Iraq but who would liberate the women in Colorado City.

[housewolf]

13. That is majorly heart-breaking

I don't have any other words...

[Triana]

6. child abuse....

..NO EXCUSE for it. That cretin ought to be locked up for life in a very very putrid, dark, smelly place.

:mad:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

7. When it comes to kids, the government must step in

Child abuse cannot and should not be tolerated by society.

[goddess40]

8. Isn't waterboarding okay now?

It sounds like these women and children were kept in a prison camp. Life in prison is too good for these jerks, but I wouldn't let them off with a death sentence, let them sit and rot. Jerks like this don't do well with their fellow inmates.

[Coexist]

9. that is sick.

I am horrified. Those poor babies.

[Beaverhausen]

Oh my god. What kind of monster does that to a baby?

:cry:

[kestrel91316]

11. I vote we dig a big pit in the ground, put a nice secure lid on it,

and drop these guys in and leave them. A la Black Hole of Calcutta.

Infant torturers deserve the worst torture possible, IMHO. Maybe even drawing and quartering.

[LanternWaste]

12. That anyone would defend the "right" of this place and these people to be left alone

That anyone would defend the "right" of this place and these people to be left alone (that-- after a young lady calls 911 to report abuse) is simply beyond me. That anyone on DU would do the same is illustrative that we too have our own "Everything the government does is bad" loonies.

I imagine that they're the same one who would've defended Jim Jones and his church in Guyana.

Loonies. Yeah-- that's the right word. Loonies.

Cynicism is not a horrible thing in and of itself. But when that cynicism becomes its own dogmatic, rigid belief structure with the tacit refusal to never hold itself up to the same scrutiny it demands from others, it becomes something other than cynicism-- it becomes a Blind Faith.

[Beausoleil]

14. Exactly. Religious freedom ends when it violates the laws of society

and humanity. And I really mean egregious violations; I have no problem with Native American religions using substances that "society" deems illegal, for example. But using human beings as property and instruments of power? Never.

How long should we leave groups alone in that context? Until they murder US Congressmen?

[Pacifist Patriot]

15. Indeed

[Ian_rd]

16. These people are scary as hell

Simple math makes it an unstable society doomed to fail. According to their beliefs, a man needs 3 wives to enter heaven. Obviously, sooner or later, all the marriage-age women get taken pretty fast. This is why they keep dropping the marriage age to younger and younger children.

Oh yea - the only way a woman enters heaven is with the permission of her husband.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

17. They also throw sons out on the streest when they reach puberty..

[Ian_rd]

21. It's almost like a reverse of female infanticide in China.

Boys are worthless to FLDS because they can't be used as "celestial" wives.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

22. Pretty much

the LDS is so far off (theologically) speaking that its past amusing when they pretend they are a Christian sect.

[High Plains]

24. Uh, these folks aren't LDS. They're FLDS.

[MindPilot]

25. And here comes the "they are not REAL Christians" argument.

They believe in the monotheistic God of Abraham. They believe that a god/human existed in human form called "jesus" and that he was executed by crucifixion, rose from the dead, and ascended to heaven.

That looks a whole lot like Christianity to most of the world. Show me where I'm wrong.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

27. Ill only post once on this sa to avoid a theology war where its not appropriate

Feel free to debunk me here or if you wish to continue pm me ;)

'They believe in the monotheistic God of Abraham.'

No they don't, they believe the God was once a man who became God and is one of many Gods (This is most certainly *not* the Hebrew God), he is the 'god of this earth' but there is, in their theology other gods of other planets and you too can be a god. The also don't recognize Christ as part of the trinity nor do they recognize the holy spirit at all.

'That looks a whole lot like Christianity to most of the world. Show me where I'm wrong.'

1) look above, Jews believe in the God of Israel that does not make them Christian so they dont get points for that. I can call my minivan a mustang and yes it has four wheels and goes vroom vroom but it aint a mustang.

2) Jesus became a god but was (as we all are) spirit children of God (btw Jesus and Lucifer were brothers in Mormon theology). Christians believe Jesus (the Logos) was *always* just as God the father was *always* and the holy spirit was *always*.

3) The Mormon version of their own heaven which is they are Gods making spirit babies with their wives for their own planets over which they are gods is *directly* contradicted by the words of Jesus

"For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. (Matthew 22:29-30)" <-- There are no husbands and wives in Heaven..

4) Mormons deny Christ as part of the triune God which is clearly the Gospel Christ

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race; the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it."

--

How did the Mormons manage to warp Christianity into this? They added a book after revelation, added whole chapters in the OT, and played very fast and loose with the 1st century Greek manuscripts of the gospels and letters in their translation.

[Hekate]

31. Actually, even "regular" LDS are pretty much polytheists. PBS did a good series on the Mormons....

...which your public library may carry in its video section. Dad of 2 Little Angels 'post was accurate.

Mormons may emphasize the "Jesus Christ" in their name in order to blend in, but their origins are far from mainstream Christian theology.

Hekate

[Dorian Gray]

23. How communities

like that have been ignored and tolerated in our country for years is beyond me. I'm happy that Texas took a stand and did something about this. It's reprehensible what they did to the women and children in those FLDS towns.

[Chulanowa]

28. Because they worship sticks, same as the rest of the nation's leadership

Maybe they're seen as the "backwards cousins" or whatever... but fact is, any amount of vile, muderous, disgusting behavior is condoned, even accepted by Americans, simply because the people doing it believe in Jesus in some fashion or another.

I have to confess, I lose any sense of tolerance or acceptance when it comes to Mormons, whether "regular" mormons or "fundamentalist" mormons - the fundies are just mormons who live somewhere that they can get away with this shit.

[Maddy McCall]

29. Bookmarked...

want to read this when I get back from lunch.

[The Backlash Cometh]

30. Damn. Jail is too good for these people.

[Solly Mack]

33. "enhanced interrogation techniques" of infants...Bush must be so proud.

Sick.Sick.Sick.Sick.

[KillCapitalism]

34. Instead of the war on drugs...

we need a war on sick pedophile groups like this. Seriously, I'd have no problem with more law enforcement funds going toward the detection and prosecution of groups like this. Right now there are probably many more children and teenagers being raped and abused, but no one knows about it.

Let's end the war on drugs and put those resources toward this.

[cynatnite]

37. It was sobering to watch...

that people who would torture infants actually exist.