What is Middle Class?

[ColbertWatcher]

Yesterday, another DUer started a thread "Study: Earners high, low think they belong to middle class", which linked to a story form the Chicago Tribune.

Reading the link, I was struck by how the definition of "middle class" seemed to be dependent on the national average (or median).

So, I (half-jokingly) posted what I thought is a "better" definition of "middle class":

"...All this emphasis on national average (or median) says nothing about real income.

I say middle class is when you:

* spend no more than 25% of your income on mortgage
* can save at least 10% of your income
* can afford to pay all your bills on time
* can eat out at least once a week
* can afford at least one out-of-state vacation every year
* can afford to give everyone in your family birthday/holiday gifts at any place besides 99 cent store
* can afford to regularly see a doctor/dentist
* look forward to taking on more financial responsibilities because your job is secure.

If you can do those things and more, you're rich. If you cannot do all of those things, you are poor."<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=114&topic_id=37516&mesg_id=37529>

Other people said the definition should include whether you can set your own hours or not.

Now I ask the attendees of the great forums of DU:

What is your definition of "middle class"?

[leftofcool]

1. the definition has changed a lot over the years

But I think your rule of thumb here pretty much still holds true

[Juche]

2. Your definition is good

Middle class means you have a stable job and can afford the necessities in life (shelter, transportation, nutrition, medicine) and still have enough left over for luxuries, emergencies and savings.

But it is hard to put that down into monetary numbers. I have known people who live quite well on 25k a year and people who struggle on far more than that. A 70k household income isn't that much on the east coast if you have a kid with a chronic illness.

I could afford all of the things on your list (except the vacation, unless you count couch surfing) when I was in college on 1200/month. But I don't know if I'd consider that middle class. Then again a family making 100k that has no savings and can barely pay their mortgage isn't middle class either to me.

[ColbertWatcher]

3. In college?

The trick of that list is the word "mortgage". I guess I was too subtle with that because lots of people skimmed that over and included "rent" in that step.

Not being snarky even though it sounds like it.

Serious.

I don't mean to sound snarky.

[stray cat]

8. In NY you need 400,000 to buy a one bedroom place 700sq ft.

[Juche]

9. In the midwest it isn't much higher

I lived in 2 apartments in college, both with roommates. One was $500 and one was $600/month. A decent house can be had in the midwest for 70-100k, which is a mortgage payment of about the same price. Not including upkeep, taxes or homeowners insurance though. My aunt & uncle bought an acceptable house for 70k, and my brother built a home for 80k.

I've never owned a home so I don't know, but it appears in the midwest it may only cost $200-300/month more than renting, if that. A $500/month mortgage plus another $200 or so for insurance, taxes and upkeep.

A person can buy a home for an income of 30k here, but in new england or the west coast alot of people rent when they earn 100k. So again, it is hard to pin a term like middle class down.

[pitohui]

4. middle class people can't set their own hours

that is just inane, middle class people have jobs or else own businesses that are very hands-on and take all of the hours of the day -- middle class business owners that i know are fond of bitching of how they work for less than minimum wage after you add up all the house involved -- the self employed person in particular only earns if she is actually physically working and thus the self employed person usually has almost no free time (unless her enterprise is failing) compared to the person with a job that guarantees two weeks a year of vacation and some minimal amount of federally mandated holidays

as a general rule people who can set their own hours are either unemployed (poor) or rich (inherited, work in dad's firm so don't really have to show up, have extremely successful and mature businesses that are actually operated by others)

a middle class person, to me, is someone who can afford to buy a home, fund a retirement, and raise and educate two (or one) children through college

i certainly do not give everyone in my extended family gifts every year at every possible gift giving occasion, out of control gift giving and out of control parties such as weddings, showers, dinners etc. are one of the reasons that people who would otherwise be middle class never manage to set aside any savings

a middle class person does not have unlimited funds, she must make choices, if a person has sufficient income that she could CHOOSE to buy a home but instead prefers to have a $30K second wedding and pop out five children, well, at that point, it's her own fault rather than the world's if her money doesn't go as far as she thinks it should

too many middle class people believe they are aristocrats and want to drive a lexus and wear "designer" clothing and have a princess diana wedding, guess what, lady, you're not princess diana and neither is your daughter

my husband and i have half or less the income of most people around us in our area, which is quite well to do, and it just amazes me what some people think is an expected part of a middle class lifestyle

if you can't pay your bills because the hospital sent you a bill for $100,000, well, that's a completely different situation than not being able to pay your bills because you're competing with your neighbor who has two laundry rooms (yes, two of my neighbors were bitching each other out over who had two laundry rooms and which were larger, i can't make this crap up)

i will say because of our low income it would be very difficult for us if we had children, and it just angers me that the real work of the world, done by the blue collar folks who are actually using their bodies as well as their minds, is so poorly paid that they can't give their kids much of a future any more -- we can live as "middle class" because we didn't want children, but if nobody ever had any kids, where would the future be?

[ColbertWatcher]

6. For the person who gets a "Princess Diana" wedding...

...instead of saving for retirement is maybe lower middle class then, since she doesn't fit the formula.

I'm not going to change my formula.

I'm not, I'm not, I'm not...

Okay, maybe I will, but spending on a huge wedding when you haven't saved for it is kinda stupid.

[XemaSab]

5. Middle class is where you have to work for a living

but are able to afford to stay comfortably housed, have a car, have some sort of retirement and benefits, and NEVER have to worry about buying food.

:shrug:

[Xenocrates]

7. Middle Class?

Huh. I thought you were considered "middle class" when your income put you into a higher tax bracket, ie. income taxes above 15%, and then you became "upper class" when your tax bracket was higher than 30%. ;)

[DangerDave921]

10. Yes to all

I can do all of those things, and I think I'm middle class. Although I don't look forward to taking on more responsibility. I just have to because my wife wants to always do things around the house. lol

[ColbertWatcher]

13. LOL

Taking on more responsibilities can include kids and all that that entails.

[DangerDave921]

14. You got that right

We save for retirement and for our two kids' college funds. So we live a pretty modest life really. We do get one vacation a year, and get to eat out once a week, and can always pay our bills, but we're not living large by any stretch of the imagination.

I know it's all relative. Some would look at us and call us rich. But that's just not the case. Rich is when you don't have to worry about money, or worry about how to pay for college, or worry how to pay for retirement. I definitely worry about that.

[Jankyn]

11. My definition is similar...

...but it's more of a negation.

If your income is all from wages, you own no real estate other than the portion of your home that is not owned by the bank, you rely on insurance from your employer to cover health care costs, and the only "investments" you have are in a 401k, you're not middle class.

You're working class.

If you constantly encourage your children to work harder at academics and sports so that they'll be eligible for a college scholarship, you're not middle class.

You're working class.

If your spouse or partner must work full-time in order to afford your current lifestyle (house payment, vacation, music lessons for the kids), you're not middle class.

You're working class.

If your entire life would be upended by losing your job, you're not middle class.

You're working class.

Most Americans are working class. We just don't know it because (a) we buy the myth that America is a classless society, and (b) consumer goods and pop culture keep us distracted from the big picture of our finances--and our children's financial future.

[ColbertWatcher]

12. I like your definition!

Emphasis on work, and not inherited wealth.

[DangerDave921]

16. Totally Disagree

You draw a big distinction between middle class and working class. I don't understand that distinction. Don't middle class people work? You seem to suggest that middle class people somehow live a life of luxury or ease. I don't. I work very hard.

Middle class has always implied that you are working hard. So I guess I don't know what "working class" means.

[pitohui]

17. your definition is simply wrong, you don't get to make up your own meanings for words

you really don't know what "working class" means, do you?

a working class family can be middle class but it doesn't mean that everyone in the middle class is working class

what you describe is classic middle class

working class does not refer to the fact that people work, otherwise you can say that anybody with a job is working class, which is simply not the meaning of the term

people who are not blue collar do not identify with the working class nor do they care about the working class and telling them that they're working class will just make them smile at you in a pitying manner because they think you're pathetic and trying to claim an equality with them that they simply don't feel -- we are working class, my husband is employed in heavy industry, and if you think that we are treated or viewed in the same way as, say, the kindergarten teacher with the same pay, ha, think again

america is not classless and everybody who is REALLY working class knows damn well that it's a class-based society and exactly where they fall

you can be both working class and middle class (a successful plumber, say) but you can be working class and struggling (many jobs no longer pay quite enough if they still exist at all, say the auto industry)

and you can most certainly be middle class and not working class -- there is a large category of people in that group, teachers, many attorneys, the endless parade of paper pushers and salespeople...

[DangerDave921]

18. Interesting take

I especially like the part how factory workers are looked at differently than teachers, even though the pay may be the same. Strange, isn't it?

The electrician we use is a poster-child of blue-collar stereotypes. Dresses like Larry the cable guy, poor grammar, off-color jokes, high school education. But that guy makes over $100k a year, has a nice house at the beach, and lives a good life. Smart as hell too.

Meanwhile, some college-educated schmuck is wearing a tie and earning $45k as a middle management guy. So who's really working class?

[El Pinko]

15. I would say that most Americans no longer meet all of those standards.

* spend no more than 25% of your income on mortgage

I spend about 1/3 or my income on rent. Most people I know with mortgages spend around 50% on them.

* can save at least 10% of your income

Can't save any at this point.

* can afford to pay all your bills on time

I manage that for the most part, unless you inlude old defaults on credit cards.

* can eat out at least once a week

Does McDonald's or the mall fod court count as "eating out"? We have one of those outings about once a week, just to get a break from the damn dishes.

* can afford at least one out-of-state vacation every year

We manage that about every other year.

* can afford to give everyone in your family birthday/holiday gifts at any place besides 99 cent store

No.

* can afford to regularly see a doctor/dentist

No.

* look forward to taking on more financial responsibilities because your job is secure.

Job is secure, but no, can't take on any more financial burdens.

[noel711]

19. The tragedy of this topic? The financial angle..

Let's cast asunder the archaic assumption that
the USA is 'classless..' (Well, that may be true,
but in a different interpretation..)

If our social standing is only based on our financial
worth, on our cash flow, we are in real trouble. It's obvious
that our political system is a plutocracy, and this influences
us on many levels. If one's 'social standing' is marked by one's
financial worth, then Paris Hilton is UPper Crust.. what does
that say about our culture?

I remember back in the day when the distinction between being
'middle class' and a 'working man' was based not on income,
but on education. That's why there's so much focus on getting
higher eduction... because conventional wisdom says you better
yourself by having more degrees. We know better than that these days.

Being 'middle' class (because of education) bestowed some
mobility and independence. YOu didn't have to stay in your
small town/neighborhood because you had the 'passport' to get
work in your 'professional field' rather than in the factory
where your dad and granddad worked.

Being 'middle' class meant you got opportunities that were
afforded because of your resume, rather than your Uncle Frank
pulling strings...

Being 'middle' class meant you could rub elbows with influential folks,
that you could not only work in a respected profession, but have the
time and inclination to do volunteer/charity work.

Being 'middle' class bestowed dignity, and respect, for your
hard earned education, and not because your mother cleans
the rectory.

Being 'middle' class meant you could take a 'real' vacation,
and not just a weekend with the relatives in Cinncinati.

This in no way means to denigrate the working class. I grew
up blue collar, and, back in the day, there was dignity in that
also. If you worked hard, fed your family, maintained your property
you were well respected in the community, but you had little mobility.

Being 'middle' class bestowed a sense of conventional respectability.
but then that means little anymore..