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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 05:45 PM Original message |
the FL youtube teen beating case is about 'power' and 'dissent' -- is this who we have become? |
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aquart (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 05:50 PM Response to Original message |
1. And that's different from GD-P? |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 06:01 PM Response to Reply #1 |
7. yeppers. |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-11-08 10:41 AM Response to Reply #1 |
91. Exactly |
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Deja Q (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 05:53 PM Response to Original message |
2. Well, my original claim still stands: |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 06:00 PM Response to Reply #2 |
6. i think that separating kids into discreet grades/ages also encourages this. |
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TheFriendlyAnarchist (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 06:08 PM Response to Reply #2 |
12. Uniforms don't do shit. |
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Iris (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:32 PM Response to Reply #12 |
54. What bothers me is no one even tries to teach kids that this is a part of human nature that |
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TheFriendlyAnarchist (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:34 PM Response to Reply #54 |
56. A good question. My mother has never hit me, but she can send the fear |
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Iris (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:40 PM Response to Reply #56 |
65. oh, yes! The "Mom" look! |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 08:09 PM Response to Reply #65 |
80. Know it, and do it! nt |
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Diclotican (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-11-08 10:21 AM Response to Reply #56 |
90. TheFriendlyAnarchist |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 08:08 PM Response to Reply #54 |
79. That's my question, too |
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roguevalley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 09:45 PM Response to Reply #54 |
83. most parents and teachers do. but there are some who are not |
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Iris (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-11-08 10:11 AM Response to Reply #83 |
89. well said. |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-11-08 11:58 AM Response to Reply #83 |
100. i think this is at root of the "tried as adults/sanction as juveniles" controversy. |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-11-08 11:00 AM Response to Reply #12 |
95. it occurs to me that the uniforms they're wearing now might have an effect. |
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Canuckistanian (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:21 PM Original message |
They DO wear uniforms, in their minds. |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-11-08 09:38 AM Response to Original message |
86. the red ribbon in the movie Heathers -- spot on. |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 08:01 PM Response to Reply #2 |
78. Can I tell you something? I wore uniforms for 12 years |
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Life Long Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 05:54 PM Response to Original message |
3. I don't know. This stuff always happened, it's just now easy to video it and post online. |
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PetraPooh (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:45 PM Response to Reply #3 |
71. Yep, I can't count the times that folks got off at our bus stop, waited for the bus |
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depakid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 05:54 PM Response to Original message |
4. Astute observations |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 05:59 PM Response to Reply #4 |
5. i haven't thought this thru -- i'm not smart enough -- but i think public school has |
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MichiganVote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 06:07 PM Response to Reply #5 |
10. What a bunch of crap. These kids lacked a stop button. They felt entitled. |
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depakid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 06:24 PM Response to Reply #10 |
20. Any school with irrational "zero tolerance" rules encourages this sort of behavior |
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MichiganVote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 06:36 PM Response to Reply #20 |
23. "Zero tolerance" is adopted by school boards comprised of members of the community. |
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depakid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 06:50 PM Response to Reply #23 |
26. Zero tolerance is not irrational? You actually believe that? |
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MichiganVote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:00 PM Response to Reply #26 |
29. If that is what you believe zero tolerance is then you have neither read a school policy |
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depakid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:18 PM Response to Reply #29 |
45. Oh please |
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MichiganVote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:19 PM Response to Reply #45 |
47. You don't work in a school or have children in school do you? |
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depakid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:26 PM Response to Reply #47 |
51. How is that relevant |
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MichiganVote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:27 PM Response to Reply #51 |
52. You've answered your own question. |
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depakid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:35 PM Response to Reply #52 |
59. Really? Perhaps you could explain? |
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MichiganVote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:39 PM Response to Reply #59 |
63. No thanks. This conversation has become tiresome. See ya'. |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:35 PM Response to Reply #47 |
57. How is anecdotal experience give someone the final say? |
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MichiganVote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:41 PM Response to Reply #57 |
66. Didn't say it did. Merely asked a question. |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:07 PM Response to Reply #26 |
37. zero tolerance is absolute authoritarianism. symbolically and ritually it readies us for this sort |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:05 PM Response to Reply #23 |
34. no one is saying this is a school management issue -- i'm certainly not and as i read it, nor is |
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MichiganVote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:15 PM Response to Reply #34 |
42. You just stated in Post #5... |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:32 PM Response to Reply #42 |
53. are you a principal? teacher? school board member? |
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Iris (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:36 PM Response to Reply #53 |
60. but couldn't this be the case in any school situation - public or private? |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:47 PM Response to Reply #60 |
72. totally! i just offered "public" b/c i went to public and they are/were in public. |
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Iris (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:48 PM Response to Reply #72 |
73. That's what I was thinking. |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-11-08 09:24 AM Response to Reply #73 |
84. there's a long history of research and methods to make schools more humane... |
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girl gone mad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-12-08 06:05 AM Response to Reply #84 |
104. I like the idea.. |
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screembloodymurder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-12-08 07:10 AM Response to Reply #73 |
109. That's the problem. |
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MichiganVote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:38 PM Response to Reply #53 |
62. If you believe that everyone who challenges your perceptions is hostile.... |
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Blue_Roses (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-11-08 09:52 AM Response to Reply #62 |
88. yep |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:39 PM Response to Reply #42 |
64. You must be a public school teacher. |
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MichiganVote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:43 PM Response to Reply #64 |
69. Nope. |
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Occulus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-11-08 11:14 AM Response to Reply #69 |
97. I'd like everyone here to take note that MichiganVote is NOT saying what s/he DOES do. |
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screembloodymurder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-12-08 07:13 AM Response to Reply #64 |
110. The school had nothing to do with this. |
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screembloodymurder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-12-08 07:05 AM Response to Reply #42 |
108. This is an issue of parenting not education. |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:02 PM Response to Reply #10 |
31. that's not what i'm saying -- hierarchal structures, humiliation, power, dissent |
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MichiganVote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:06 PM Response to Reply #31 |
36. How about they knew what they wanted to do, they planned it, they did it and they broke the law. |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:09 PM Response to Reply #36 |
38. i mentioned nothing of how i think they should be punished. |
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MichiganVote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:17 PM Response to Reply #38 |
44. Sorry you feel that way. I just think you want to be right. So be right if it makes you feel better. |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:36 PM Response to Reply #44 |
61. discussions generally aren't zero-sum. i don't understand your hostility. |
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MichiganVote (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:42 PM Response to Reply #61 |
68. Assuming I am hostile is rather pointless. If you disagree with me, that is suffice. |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:48 PM Response to Reply #10 |
74. my OP is about the breakdown of civility. did you get that part? |
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lumberjack_jeff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-11-08 10:51 AM Response to Reply #10 |
93. My sons school is the example you're looking for. |
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Manifestor_of_Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-12-08 01:23 AM Response to Reply #93 |
102. Have you gotten a lawyer and sued them yet? You should. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 06:23 PM Response to Reply #5 |
19. It's the schools only to the extent that the schools are where the peer groups meet. |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:13 PM Response to Reply #19 |
40. i don't disagree. it's a cultural issue, and church is also be a place where authoritarianism |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:20 PM Response to Reply #40 |
48. And churches give major emotional rewards for group compliance. |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-11-08 09:49 AM Response to Reply #48 |
87. hey, you're very welcome -- sorry if it became somewhat of a crab-match... |
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sniffa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:03 PM Response to Reply #5 |
33. Well, I disagree |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:11 PM Response to Reply #33 |
39. Me too. I agree, except for "deviant". I'd say they were WAY more $tatu$ and |
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sniffa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:20 PM Response to Reply #39 |
49. Very true |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:14 PM Response to Reply #33 |
41. it's the authoritarianism -- totally evident in catholic schools -- but THESE girls went to public |
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sniffa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:16 PM Response to Reply #41 |
43. And as I mentioned, I went to Public School too |
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readmoreoften (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:41 PM Response to Reply #43 |
67. Well, I'm glad that's your experience, but I think the OP is saying that all school is |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:44 PM Response to Reply #43 |
70. coolio. isn't it weird that even bringing up high school brings up all sorts of high emotion... |
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Hayduke Lives (102 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:35 PM Response to Reply #5 |
58. There's something to that |
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girl gone mad (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-12-08 06:17 AM Response to Reply #58 |
105. I've always been a little surprised by that question, too. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 06:05 PM Response to Reply #4 |
9. Who is responsible for social messages about "Good and Bad"? |
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depakid (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 06:26 PM Response to Reply #9 |
21. That's certainly true in certain regions |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 06:37 PM Response to Reply #21 |
24. Emotions disappear from diseased brains after rational thought. |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 06:02 PM Response to Original message |
8. The patterning may be from Churches, which, compared to public schools, |
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Prefer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 06:07 PM Response to Reply #8 |
11. the devil made them do it |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 06:14 PM Response to Reply #11 |
15. "Good Guys" justified in the struggle against "Bad". |
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Tandalayo_Scheisskopf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 06:12 PM Response to Original message |
13. My life was made a living hell in high school... |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:06 PM Response to Reply #13 |
35. : - ( |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:21 PM Response to Reply #13 |
50. when i first read this story i hoped that if nothing else comes of this, at least |
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Richard Steele (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 06:14 PM Response to Original message |
14. "They are monsters of our making". K&R |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 06:19 PM Response to Reply #14 |
16. AND they're going to be the ones in charge of our Old Age! |
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elocs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 06:19 PM Response to Original message |
17. Teens' brains are immature and there is a disconnect between choices and consequences. |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:01 PM Response to Reply #17 |
30. i am (thank god) not the same person i was at 15, 17, 19 or even 23. |
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sniffa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 06:23 PM Response to Original message |
18. More like bad parenting |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 06:31 PM Response to Reply #18 |
22. There are bad parents. But many more aren't bad, just not good enough to meet |
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sniffa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 06:39 PM Response to Reply #22 |
25. "why" what? |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 06:50 PM Response to Reply #25 |
27. Why anything. Anything a child/young person asks. |
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sniffa (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 06:59 PM Response to Reply #27 |
28. If those are the answers, then yes, it's bad parenting |
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patrice (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:02 PM Response to Reply #28 |
32. Good point. Especially since our real job isn't the answers, but to model HOW |
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karab (29 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:18 PM Response to Original message |
46. Speaking opinions |
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Cerridwen (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:34 PM Response to Reply #46 |
55. Should not require one be trained in self-defense. |
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OmmmSweetOmmm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:54 PM Response to Original message |
75. We are a land created with violence and the energy from our inception has continued. |
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OmmmSweetOmmm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:55 PM Response to Original message |
76. You are 100% right..the spirit of fascism. We were founded upon violence and that energy |
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JerseygirlCT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 07:57 PM Response to Original message |
77. Yep. That and they seem to have had an upbringing that taught |
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burythehatchet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 08:29 PM Response to Original message |
81. Quite right. We underestimate the direct influence of our Government's action upon those |
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Hissyspit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Apr-10-08 08:40 PM Response to Original message |
82. Revenge narratives are popular in music videos of late. |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-11-08 09:36 AM Response to Original message |
85. How Societies Regress to Become Pathocracies (this thread is relevant) |
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malaise (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-11-08 10:43 AM Response to Original message |
92. Great post |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-11-08 10:59 AM Response to Reply #92 |
94. thanks! totally check out the link i posted above about "pathocracies" -- it's exactly |
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malaise (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-11-08 11:21 AM Response to Reply #94 |
98. Will do |
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BlooInBloo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-11-08 11:04 AM Response to Original message |
96. Yes. Ripping on people in writing who say stupid things or who lie is FASCIST... |
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nashville_brook (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-11-08 11:34 AM Response to Reply #96 |
99. this is an interesting response. is it to the OP? |
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Karenina (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Apr-11-08 07:09 PM Response to Original message |
101. THIS is who you have always been... |
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conspirator (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-12-08 05:32 AM Response to Original message |
103. It's simple bullying. In bullying the role of the victim is as important as the role |
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screembloodymurder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-12-08 06:52 AM Response to Original message |
106. You've nailed it. |
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Echo In Light (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Apr-12-08 07:04 AM Response to Original message |
107. "These kids have adopted the spirit of fascism." |
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DU AdBot (1000+ posts) | Thu Apr 18th 2024, 08:59 PM Response to Original message |
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