TYT: Has America Been Dumbed Down?

[ihavenobias]

If the Bush Administration were put on trial for torture tomorrow and it was televised, would anyone even watch? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1PuXfzSAZyA&feature=user Would it even be televised on non-cable network news?

Does anyone read anymore?

How did we end up going into Iraq with such lame intelligence?

Why did we end up with George Bush as president the second time around and is it the media's fault?

What would the founding fathers think about our present situation?

These questions and more were answered when author Susan Jacoby joined The Young Turks to discuss her book The Age of American Unreason in which she highlights a strain of anti-rationalism and public ignorance as American society has dumbed down over the past 40 years.

Listen to the entire work-safe interview here (go ahead and minimize it in Windows Media Player, no one will know ;)

http://youngturks.wmod.llnwd.net/a591/o1/4-9-08Jacoby.wmv

Also, here is the interview with Joe Sestak, former Naval Admiral and current Congressman from PA on Iraq and the Petraeus hearings (this is what Cenk is making reference to): http://youngturks.wmod.llnwd.net/a591/o1/4-8-08Sestak.wmv

PS---You can always watch TYT Live from 3-5 pm ET, with a Rolling Post Game 5-7 pm daily Monday-Friday at www.theyoungturks.com (both shows include a live chat). The RPG often contains political talk but also many non-political topics to lighten things up (and yes, that audio may not necessarily be work-safe).

Also, if you can't watch live, the 3-5pm portion of the show (politics) streams the rest of the day, all day right after the Post Game Show ends leading up to the initial show at 3pm.

[libertypirate]

1. Past tense or present reality? We continue to be stupified by the greedy...

[spin]

2. Maybe that's the plan...

Rich people send their children to private school. Poor people send their kids to public school.

Rich kids get the better education and the good jobs. Less competition.

Or maybe the plan is to let the public schools fail and then privatize the system to the corporations. Much better trained wage slaves that way.

[Javaman]

3. For wat you say bout doned dum? nt

[EVDebs]

4. As a principle of The Art of War, this is their strategery!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3150685&mesg_id=3150716

Their brilliance and foresight are masked by their incompetence and foolishness in order to deceive the enemy, and those with democratic "pinko" leanings !

[Quantess]

5. TV might have something to do with it

.......though I watch it, too.

[navarth]

6. Is our people STUPID??

Kinda amounts to a DUMB question, actually

[OhioChick]

7. K&R

:kick:

[Quantess]

8. Has anyone seen the film "Idiocracy"?

It's hilarious!

[Fireweed247]

9. love that movie!

It should scare everyone into changing our behavior ASAP

[Solly Mack]

11. That is a painfully funny movie.

[bdamomma]

10. it's been dumbed down for a while, no thanks to our disasterous

media.

[CherylK]

12. Yes! n/t

[justanaveragedude]

13. Is present company included?

I've heard this before, from both sides of the political spectrum. However, I never heard anyone admit that they themselves are dumb. So if America has been dumbed down, is anyone here any dumber for it? Or is it just arrogance on both sides, and just another way to say that those who don't agree with you are idiots?

[ihavenobias]

14. Did you listen to the interview with the author of the book or did you just read the subject line?

You know I had to ask. :)

[justanaveragedude]

15. fair question...

Do I did not, and I admit that maybe that means I've been dumbed down too.

My post was more in response to the topic (dumbing down of America) in general and not the specific interview. This was, in my opinion, consistent with the direction of the previous post that seemed to be addressing the topic in general and not the interview referenced in the OP.

I drive a lot during the day and listen to my fair share of talk radio. This is a common opinion of most host on talk radio regardless of political leanings. It strikes me as funny that many will talk about how Americans are dumber than ever, however, no one seems to want to put themselves out there as an example of a "dumber American". Its always the other guy who is dumb.

I don't know if we are dumber today, or there is just more to learn about and the rest of the world has caught up with us.

Also, I have never seen Idiocracy either.

[ihavenobias]

17. Many of us are actually

but in this case, it's now the host of a show asking the question, it's the author of the book he has on to interview.

And you should take a listen because it's pretty interesting. Also, many of us DO try to avoid junk infotainment and we DO read, but we're also somewhat politically engaged, otherwise we wouldn't be DU members.

PS---We aren't the ones that voted for Bush in 2000 or 2004, so I'd say that's one *smart* move right there in our favor, right?

[Quantess]

16. I will volunteer.

I watched Rock of Love 2 last night, and I am a little dumber as a result. Does that answer your question?
Or is something else on your mind?

Edit to add: Idiocracy is a comedy starring Luke Wilson, directed by Mike Judge. It's hilarious, but it is so close to the truth, that it's also a little depressing.

[justanaveragedude]

21. Not to one up you but...

I went and saw Poison the last 4 times they came to the Tampa area. I'm just a cheese for 80's big hair bands. I'm sure I'm a hell of lot dumber as a result!!!!

Honestly, I find some of the most thoughtful input about what's happening in the world around me right here on DU. I don't post a bunch, but I read it all the time because is informs and challenges some of my own preconceived notions as some one who is swinging from right to left as I get older.

I didn't mean that any DU'ers were dumb. Its just that this topic is interesting because it is one of those topic that the right and left tend to agree on, however they still can't seem to do anything about it. It's kind of like teacher salaries. Here in Florida all candidates running for state office agree that teachers need to make more money, however they never do. How is that possible? Give them a flipping raise already, who, according to their campaign speeches, is going to oppose it? There is no disagreement on the issue, however nothing is never done about it. It's fucked up.

In the name of full disclosure my wife is a teacher and I would like for her to make more money!!

[Quantess]

23. You mentioned your wife is a teacher.

I was a special ed teacher in public schools for a few years.

Public schools are part of the problem, I'm sorry to say. I am not going to blame teachers, because they get far more blame than they deserve! The problem (actually just one of the problems) is that students have different rates of learning, and yet they are all expected to achieve at a certain level. This is where NCLB comes in. The brightest students are only expected to achieve a certain proficiency, and no higher. The students who struggle are given extra instruction, (which I feel is good, having been a special ed instructor), but NCLB encourages teaching to the test. All the effort is aimed at making sure the struggling students answer the test questions correctly. The brightest students don't get much attention, since they are meeting all the benchmarks, anyway.

I could go on, but I should get busy with other things.

Anyway, welcome to DU!

[defendandprotect]

18. Yes . . . and did you happen to see the PBS program the other night on Alabama . . !!!

Just came by it and watched for a few minutes . .
but evidently, they've worked Alabama over pretty well ---
so well that the citizens can't identify what their stake in legislation is ---
they're voting against their own interests!!!

And, naturally, this especially hits the poor --- and African Americans -- the most.

That's why the GOP wants to wipe out the Department of Education ---
make people robots.

[defendandprotect]

19. Allen Dulles nailed it when he said "Americans don't read" . . .

it was his reassuring comment to his fellow conspirators re JFK coup ---

It's getting harder and harder to keep up with all the info ---
reading on the internet is more difficult --- slower ---

That's why websites like DU are so important ---
we all need help in staying informed!

[Echo In Light]

24. Good call, that

[BlooInBloo]

20. Americans are fucking idiots. This is well-known.

[slackmaster]

22. Someone please post the Cliff's Notes version of that

:dunce:

[Johonny]

25. I'll go with no

I think compared to previous generations the current American has access to far more information today than any generation.

[ihavenobias]

26. I'll go with no you didn't listen to the interview either? :)

You just read the subject line?

[CherylK]

27. Bump!

[Initech]

28. We are a nation of fucking idiots.

I think it's thanks to Reagan who cut back tons of money for education so he could fund the war on drugs.

[bluedawg12]

29. Yes. Anti-science, mistrust of teachers, professors, media

the list goes on.

I seems to be part of the decades long battle against rational thought often masked by religiosity.

I recently tired to discuss the science of evolution, and the use of reason and the plea to look at the problems of public education in another forum.

All I got was a thinly veiled hostility and catch phrases about the (left wing) media, the ACLU, Creationism vs. evolution, claims about anti-religious attitudes attributed to people who asked them to look at their statements- which made no sense.

I think it's fear. They see society as collapsing and are in protectionist mode regarding their families and "cling" to private schools, homeschooling, while at the same time they equate evolution science with Eugenics, and think that Confucius was a theologian.

There has been a Republican war on public education and science for decades and we are seeing the product of that: entrenched and strident mistrust of anything analytical or intellectual that doesn't match their belief system.

[bluedawg12]

30. The Texas Blue Print for Public education

http://www.texscience.org/reform.php

Texas Public Education Reform
>>Republican State Leaders Attempt to Change the Character of Texas Public Schools
Republican Governor Rick Perry, Republicans in the Texas Legislature, and Republicans on the State Board of Education are currently attempting to completely reform the character of Texas public education in far-reaching ways.<<

snip

>>The ultimate goal here, of course, is to transfer money from public to sectarian schools to weaken the public schools, thus making it even more difficult for them to achieve their valuable mission of a secular liberal education (liberal in the classical sense, of course, meaning liberty, not the sense the Republicans use it, which is a gratuitous slur).<<
snip

>>Since religious schools and home schools almost all intentionally use curricula that distort modern science in favor of non->>scientific religious beliefs such as creationism, intelligent design, flood geology, and a young Earth, some of these proposals will greatly damage reliable science education in Texas. If some of the attempted reforms pass, many thousands of Texas students--<<


>>Of course, science is not the only subject that will perverted by a new publicly-financed religious education system. Just about every academic subject will be corrupted and damaged.<<


In short, education in the new Texas publicly-funded religious schools and classrooms will be very similar to the education in current Texas publicly-funded public schools, just without the hypocrisy and denial. And it will include, of course, constant attention to prayer, God, Jesus, miracles, and other sectarian concerns that, for the moment, are prohibited in public schools.<<