Do you really think windmill are "eye sores" ?

[underpants]

My wife and I were talking about this on a drive on I-64 this weekend. There is a mountain top near Charlottesville with several antennae on top of it-I don't see where a few windmills (or a lot for that matter) would be that much worse. In fact I would love to see windmills but then maybe I am just a elitist liberal _________ (fill in the blank)

I remember in the early 90's there were cries about cell phone towers but those dissipated
-was that due to lack of coverage?
-was that due to efforts taken to obscure cell phone towers?
-was that due to people just getting used to them/not noticing them anymore? (see how many towers you notice on the way home--but do keep your eyes on the road)

I don't know but the whole thing stinks of a large public opinion marketing strategy but then I could just be a paranoid elitist liberal _______.

[rucky]

1. ...

[eShirl]

21. looks like a field of flowers in that pic

They're kind of whimsical-looking to me, like a child's toy pinwheel.

[Marr]

58. Haha- exactly.

It's worth pointing out the gulf between the mental image and the reality.

Still, my parents live near a windmill farm and I never thought they were an eyesore. At certain times of the year, you get this orange sparkling on the horizon as they reflect the sunset. It's actually kind of cool.

Those things are loud when you get up close to them though. Some of the older ones are anyway. And they are frigging huge.

[El Pinko]

2. Not at all.

I'm sad when I read about birds that get killed by them, but I think on the whole they are aesthetically pleasing and a net good to society.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

5. I think that's another energy company marketing ploy.

I think bird kills by windmills have been greatly exaggerated by their detractors.

[pitohui]

17. the marketing ploy seems to be working well at DU, everyone here is fooled

you people honestly don't understand that it's the energy companies that are receiving the subsidies to build these horrible structures? what do you imagine they are just sprouting up on their own like mushrooms?

jesus god, there is no hope, because the average person apparently doesn't have any critical thinking skills at all or the slightest ability to look into something at all

the windfarms are being built and subsidized in louisiana by entergy, in a grab for public money

i'm sure it's the same everywhere

but keep kidding yourself that it's somehow beautiful to kill birds to enrich private energy companies out of public funds

honestly what the hell is wrong with people?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. I think you're confusing "everyone" with just you.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/7/11/122942/689

[underpants]

37. Thanks for posting that

I remembered the bird aspect from a long time ago and it is no surprise that one mistake has been amplified in the "it is not perfect so there is no need to do it at all" tactic that is so often used but "some people" ;-)

[Ganja Ninja]

39. So what if they are getting subsidies?

Personally I don't care if the government foots to whole bill.

How much do you think it will cost society if we don't get off of fossil fuels?

How many birds do you think are going to die compared to losing swamps and estuaries along our coast lines when sea levels rise and wipe out their breeding grounds?

How many other animals and sea life will be wiped out because of loss of habitat due to global warming.

How many people have to die from a planetary catastrophe because you aren't willing to compromise?

Perhaps you should think a little harder before you post. What the hell's wrong with you?

[Hugabear]

47. Can you give us a good alternative?

Please come up with a form of energy that doesn't create any pollution, doesn't take up any land, isn't an eyesore, where there are no government subsidies, etc.

Solar power? Sorry - would require lots of solar panels, and the chemicals used to create the solar panels aren't very nice.

[El Pinko]

60. Regardless of who gets the money, it gets clean energy produced.

And that's a good thing.

[rurallib]

29. I have always wondered how the birds get killed by windmills?

If it is by the blades, then them birds must be very slow, nearsighted or just plain dumb. Or are they killed by somehow getting in the gearbox? Those blades just don't move that fast as I see it.

[hedgehog]

31. Early wind turbines were designed with smaller, fast moving blades.

That's where the concern over killing birds came from. My understanding is that this is not a significant problem with large, slow moving blades.

[Fox Mulder]

55. There actually aren't a whole lot of birds that get killed by them.

At least that's what the guide told me on the Buffalo Ridge wind farm here in MN.

:shrug:

[grannylib]

I love them; I'd love to have one; I'd love to see the field across

my road full of them. When I drive by them I think they're so peaceful-looking - I love them. There are a few farms within a hundred mile radius of where I live, and any time I have occasion to go by them I'm really happy :-)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. I think they look great.

And I think you're spot on marketing ploy.

[underpants]

9. In googling on this I found that it seems to have worked

IF it does exist but I have read too many tales of corporate doings that are frankly startling in how diabolical they are to not at least entertain the idea.

No one seems to mind massive radio towers but windmills?? My god!!

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=3065474

http://www.enn.com/top_stories/article/2984

[SharonRB]

4. I think windmills are cool looking

I love them. Wish I could afford to have one in my backyard!

[hedgehog]

32. I like the look of wind turbines, but then I also see an aesthetic appeal

in a line of towers for high voltage transmission lines. What I see is a structure stripped to its essentials, the ultimate expression of "form follows function".

[SharonRB]

36. Exactly

They're so clean and simple looking.

[hedgehog]

46. Compare the reaction some people have to them to the initial

criticism of the Eiffel Tower.

I do have to add, running power lines through people's yards by force of eminent domain is not a good thing!

[SharonRB]

57. I agree about power lines

but I love windmills!

[HereSince1628]

6. I hate to see them

everyone reminds me of competition against my coal investments. Freaking windmills should be banned...they interfere with Homeland inSecurity and they are evidence of creeping anti-carbon liberalism throughout this vast gas-guzzling nation.


:rofl:

[underpants]

12. ....

:rofl: indeed

[RB TexLa]

7. There's certianly pretty things to look at, but far from an "eyesore"

[DarienComp]

8. Smoke stacks are eye sores.

[DadOf2LittleAngels]

10. They sure can be

But *anything can be* Its one thing to drive through where they are, its quite another to live under one.

Still all things being equal id much rather live under one of these than next to a coal plant..

[ladjf]

11. They look like a beautiful solution to me.

[jtrockville]

13. I think they're elegant.

When compared to a coal or nuke plant, they're downright gorgeous.

[Ganja Ninja]

14. I don't see them as eyesores and besides most of the places

they put them are populated mainly by cows.

[pitohui]

18. if you don't know what you're talking about, why post?

most of the areas they put them are populated by cows?

as my mom would say, people need to use their heads for something besides a hat rack

most of the places they plan to put them are RELIABLY WINDY areas, which frequently means mountainous areas and it frequently means on migratory routes used by birds

the proposal around here is to put them offshore gulf of mexico in the path of our central flyway

i haven't seen too many COWS grazing in the gulf of mexico lately

our public tax dollar will subsidize this giveaway to the energy companies, but who cares if it makes stupid people feel good?

[underpants]

24. Okay as an answer to all of your posts here:

I understand your point about not interfering with the wild areas and all but I meant this discussion in the context of the fact that we need energy and if windmills being "eye sores" are a large part of the deterent I just don't get it.

I agree that this is being manipulated for subsidies. I would add that the energy companies seemed to be so stuck in their actions of the past that instead of being ENERGY companies they are just oil or coal or nuclear companies.

Your passion on this subject is enviable.

[pitohui]

15. yes of course they are eye sores

can't you see the photo that you yourself have posted in your original post? that is destroyed, degraded land with ugly white unnatural structures sticking out of it, dead land, it breaks my heart to hear you say that's charlottesville, which was a beautiful area decades ago

the wind farms destroy landscapes, they are most certainly unnatural, they are eyesores, and they kill migrating birds

i realize that most people don't care about the wild and can't see the beauty in a wild landscape, that nothing beautiful exists for them except manmade structures, but can't you leave us even a little bit? not one migratory pathway? not one mountain? everything has to be turned to practical use and there is to be nothing left, ever, where a person can stand and look around from horizon to horizon without seeing human built structure?

this is the only planet we were evolved upon, the only planet where there will ever be even a chance of a place where someone can stand and get some idea of how the land may have looked hundreds of years ago, or thousands of years ago

but every bit of nature is to be changed and stripped away and everywhere there is to be some human structure sticking out, working

there is no place for quiet, no place for peace, no place where a person can see what a horizon once was

you truly don't see the wrong in what you are stealing from those of us who do love the landscape we once had?

you are stealing not just from us but from every future generation forever

your grandchildren will not know what the land once looked like

they will think that hideous degraded picture you posted is what charlottesville was, they won't know what it was when it was a land of trees and birds

i realize i can't touch the heart of someone who can't see the beauty of a natural landscape, but what has happened to people that they can't see it for themselves?


cell phone towers are still ugly too, but if you baven't got eyes for beauty, then how i am to help you? you can't love what you have never loved, can't care about what you have never really looked at

[underpants]

19. I didn't mean to imply that that pic was Charlottesville

I just posted it as a stock photograph.

Point taken.

[EOTE]

20. And what are your other options?

You realize that we need energy to live. You should realize that wind power provides a great amount of energy per the square footage used. What would you prefer to see in its place? An oil derrick? Perhaps a nuclear plant? Sorry for the eye sore, but this particular type of energy is created without effecting its surrounding area. So the areas around wind farms can remain beautiful.

[pitohui]

22. i would like to see solar installations on rooftops for starters

it is a bald faced lie that wind farms don't affect the surrounding areas, sorry, but the destruction of our already challenged migration routes is an effect and a serious one if we would like to preserve these declining species for future generation

put a solar panel on your house, put a solar panel on all new construction, put it on large buildings

but OH that would make your house look "ugly" and rather a billion birds die than you put yourself to any trouble, right?

[EOTE]

26. Not ugly, expensive.

Not very many people can afford to equip their houses with solar panels. And those who can afford to, have very little self-interest to.

And the damage that wind farms do to surrounding areas is NEGLIGIBLE. It's by far one of our best and cleanest methods of obtaining energy. Hell, I see no reason why they can't line the areas occupied by windfarms with solar panels as well. Might as well make the best possible use of the areas we're using.

[underpants]

30. (this will go down as the most simplistic post on this thread)

Mine, this one not yours... but here goes


The US Govt. owns 80% of Nevada and a large area (mostly desert) in Utah. Now I understand that the desert is not like in the movies (always burning hot with the sun).

Why not establish-even let the corporations do it (in this modern era of assuming that that has to be the way) massive solar farms out in the desert. I also understand that this too will effect the ecosystem in the desert and that solar panels have some components that is rather dastardly to manufacture.

:shrug:

Don't yell at me for being so simplistic

[EOTE]

43. Not simplistic at all.

It's a damn good question. This figure could be WAY off, but even if it's off by an order of magnitude, it shows how we need to dramatically re-assess our energy acquisition in this country. I heard a second hand comment that apparently originated with Al Gore. Apparently he said that it would only take 71 square miles of solar panels to provide energy for every house in the United States. He also went on to say that whoever is the first to undertake this endeavor will be very wealthy individuals. I have no idea why it's not done now. For that matter, I have no idea why we aren't using a good deal more windmills as well.

[underpants]

49. 91.9% Federally owned-Nevada

http://www.klamathbasincrisis.org/other%20places/nevada91.9%25govt030705.htm

[EOTE]

44. dupe

[BigDaddy44]

68. How are you going to get all that power all the way to the east coast?

[Hugabear]

50. What about the toxic chemicals used to make the solar panels?

You'll be hard-pressed to come up with ANY form of energy that doesn't have serious drawbacks.

[underpants]

51. I mentioned that elsewhere

Yes there is a cost/benefit analysis to any alternative. That does have to be taken into effect.

Good point. But remember it can be better without being perfect.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

16. No! No!

These look so much better than those awful windmills:

[Breeze54]

23. Depends on where they are installed. I think they would be an eyesore here --->

Cape Cod


Nantucket Sound




Southeast Wind off Nantucket Sound


beach on Nantucket Sound.

[Bonhomme Richard]

25. I love them...but then again......................

I'm in the business.

[underpants]

27. Really?

Can you provide a link to information on homeowner windmills?

IF not that is cool too

:hi:

[Bonhomme Richard]

40. Here is a link to one company.

http://www.windenergy.com/index_wind.htm

I hope that helps but it is not really my field. I'm involved with the big stuff.

[The Straight Story]

62. Know what ya mean - used to work for Enron back in the day

We have those windmills all over here in CA. I always thought they were pretty.

I think they have great potential, and if the birds can't avoid them now, evolution will fix that and eventually they will know better... ;)

[SidDithers]

28. Not at all...

I wish we saw more of them.



This one is on the waterfront just outside of the Toronto downtown core.

Sid

[pegleg]

33. they are beautiful

[Hell Hath No Fury]

35. I find them so beautiful I want to see...

as many as is environmentally sound off the coast of my town! And I want to see elecitricty producing buoys, too. And I'd LOVE to see hundreds of urban wind turbines across the roof lines of the City. :loveya:

[LibertyLover]

38. I don't have a problem with them,

except when several companies recently offered to cut down trees in Maryland state forests and put up wind turbines for energy production. Gov. O'Malley declined their offer.

[LeftyMom]

41. There are wind farms near here, and they look really cool.

:thumbsup:

[Lone_Star_Dem]

42. I think the increasing air pollution that obscures the vistas is an eyesore

If given the choice of seeing a wind energy generator or smog produced by coal plants, I'll take windmills hands down every time.

[RedCappedBandit]

45. They're far from beautiful

.. but they're better than most alternatives.

[Warpy]

48. I actually think they're quite attractive

I'm not altogether certain I'd like to live with one in my back yard, though, because they can be noisy buggers.

I'm sure if that was the only way to generate the power to run my toys (especially the microwave) I'd get used to it.

However, I don't find them to detract from the view. Fat tourists in T-shirts with advertising on them detract from the view. Windmills don't.

[lonestarnot]

52. Can we have Don Quixote and Rosinanti arrested because they are brown?

[harun]

53. I like the way they look.

[Fox Mulder]

54. Absolutely not.

I went to a college where half of it is powered by a wind generator. When I went to class I could see it up on a ridge every day. I actually welcomed the sight because I knew is was doing us a lot of good.

If you were wondering, the college is the University of Minnesota, Morris. Here's their website if you're interested to read more about it (the wind generator): http://www.morris.umn.edu/index.php

[backscatter712]

56. I don't mind them.

They're actually pretty graceful, as far as man-made structures go.

And they're a HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE improvement over a greenhouse-gas-belching coal power plant.

Zero emissions, zero consumption of non-renewable fossil fuels.

And the alleged problems with bird strikes are insanely over-exaggerated, probably by oil and coal lobbies.

[Marr]

59. Show me a pretty refinery and this will be an argument against wind power.

Windmill farms are the beauty queens or power plants.

[Kitty Herder]

61. You mean as opposed to this? (This is five miles from my house) It's also on Al Gore's Inconvenient

truth DVD cover.




(From a different angle and with a hurricane pasted in.)

Yeah, I'd take a wind farm over that smoke-belching, coal-powered plant any day.

I keep saying that this county needs to start investing in alternative energy infrastructure because we're running out of coal and without coal, we have no economy. This area is sunny more days than not; it's perfect for producing solar power. But people around here act like I'm a traitor for suggesting such a thing. I guess they'd prefer the whole community to go belly-up in 20 years when the coal is gone.

[Myoho]

63. No

Just looking at them brings on a sense of spirituality beyond compare.

[cynatnite]

64. I think they look great and my son loves them n/t

[Wizard777]

65. Actually they are pleasing to the eye. They are fun to watch.

If there are a whole bunch of them. They are really hard to take you eye off of.

[B Calm]

66. I think they are very interesting to look at. I don't see an eye sore, but I see the future!

[Thothmes]

67. Check with folks on Nantucket Island for their opinion